Guild Wars 2

Once upon a time, one of the devs mentioned that Mimic doesn’t work as it was intended and it caused broken behaviour such as ko’ing boss with agony in one blow. I took it that they would do something about it, like making a change. Months have passed and mimic is still the same, aside from those exploits that were fixed.

So… what was supposed to happen to mimic? lol

It’s been a useless skill since launch in my opinion. Perhaps it provides a lengthy block, but I don’t believe that was it’s main purpose in design. Otherwise it wouldn’t have been called Mimic. As for absorbing a projectile and shooting it back? Extremely limited and mostly useless.

Yeah, it’s only been useful as a block, and even then it’s sometimes not that useful because you have to be hit by a ranged attack, which might CC you and negate the block anyhow. It can have some weird synergy with the retal on block trait, but you’re giving up something very valuable in exchange for it.

IMO, the whole block thing is just a product of them not really knowing what they wanted to do with the skill, so they made it work the way it currently does. The follow up skill, Echo, was a very famous skill from GW1, so this was just their method of shoehorning it in. But it may as well not even exist because if it does anything at all, it will just allow you to shoot out some kind of auto attack.

It would perhaps be more useful if it absorbed things from the start instead of requiring that you take a hit first, or if it was able to absorb CC abilities (i.e. point blank shot, overcharged shot). I wouldn’t expect them to make it into something actually useful anytime soon though.

I think that they should change the skill completly, i love the idea of a skill that copy a random utility from my opponent or something like that.

Indrea.7803:

I think that they should change the skill completly, i love the idea of a skill that copy a random utility from my opponent or something like that.

Me too, although this makes it a highly unreliable ability that could instead be neglected and something more useful taken (i.e. veil, portal, mirror images, decoy, blink, arcane thievery, &c.). I guess if you knew a certain opponent had a certain utility, you could fish for it, but it would still be quite unreliable.

It would be fun, however, and much more functional than it’s current form. It could potentially cause some weird stuff though, like taking a turret or kit off an engineer, or glyph of storms off an ele. They’d have to figure out how to account for that stuff.

Alternatively, it could perhaps work much like the thief’s steal ability does, except that it grants you one of a subset of the utilities available to the profession of your opponent (instead of just the ones they have equipped).

This would, however, effectively delete Echo from the game.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Me too, although this makes it a highly unreliable ability that could instead be neglected and something more useful taken (i.e. veil, portal, mirror images, decoy, blink, arcane thievery, &c.). I guess if you knew a certain opponent had a certain utility, you could fish for it, but it would still be quite unreliable.

In 1v1, sure. But for any group fights or any larger fights, imagine something like this:

Mimic
Copy a random utility skill of your target. You can use this skill within the next 120 seconds, applying your own gear and traits as applicable. Cooldown is increased by the cooldown of the enemy skill. Persists through death.
Base Cooldown: 20 seconds.
_Casttime: 1 second.
_Cannot copy all skills. This is mainly to prevent, say, copying Ranger-pet-commands or Elementalist-glyphs. If the skill fails to find a valid skill to copy, it copies a weapon skill instead.

The point here would be the 120s trigger window and the “persists through death”. You could bring this to a later fight. And you’ll know ahead of time what skill you can use, then.

I would even have an elite version of it:

Arcane Mimicry: Recovery / Potential / Power (3 skills, shared CD)
Copies the targetted enemy’s healing (Recovery), Elite (Power) or Utility (Potential) ability. You can use this skill within the next 120 seconds, applying your own gear and traits as applicable. Cooldown is increased by the cooldown of the enemy skill. Persists through death.
Base cooldown: 45 seconds
Cast Time: 0 seconds / instant
Cooldown increased by another 15 seconds if Mimic is also used during cooldown.

Carighan.6758:

If the skill fails to find a valid skill to copy, it copies a weapon skill instead.

It will be funny to shoot arrows from your greatsword, or bullets from your staff, or to swing your scepter-focus in a Hundred Blades manner ^^ And what about mobs in PvE? How should this skill behave in PvE? It’s an interesting idea anyway, with a GW1 mesmer twist.
I would like to suggest something, but English is not my first language, so forgive me for any mistakes.
I too think that Mimic should be reworked. As all manipulation skills, new version of Mimic should be able to work with Far-Reaching Manipulations. Which means that it should be a ranged spell, like current Arcane Thievery, Illusion of Life and Blink. Currently, only Echo-part benefits from Far-Reaching Manipulation’s effect, that’s why whole concept of Mimic is somehow very different from all other manipolation skills. Moreover, current Mimic serves no clear purpose. It has got three components Projectile Storage, Projectile Reflection and Attack Block.
1) While Projectile Storage is an interesting mechanic, it’s proven itself to be very unreliable and unimpactful. There are many reasons for that. Firstly, it’s VERY hard to time and “catch” something useful with all those projectiles flying around in all formats of the game. Secondly, the only difference from Reflection is that a player can store a projectile and use it later in battle. After comparing how easy it is to reflect things and how hard it is to catch a projectile, the benifit of storing a projectile becomes not so “beneficial”. Not to mention that a projectile that you are going to catch still hits you (this is not that important, because it could be fixed and be a part of a skill’s concept no more).
After a player catches a projectile, Mimic will reflect and block for remaining channel duration:
2) Reflection could be achieved with more reliable ways (Masterful Reflection, Warden’s Feedback, Feedback, Mirror). Again, Mimic will never be in line with those skills/traits as it provides much less utility.
3) Attack Block doesn’t make this skills viable because there are better ways to avoid damage: Stealth, Distortion, Teleportation and others.
Even combined, all these aspects don’t make Mimic a good choice in a build. That’s because each of Mesmer’s utility slots is precious and should serve a clear purpose. When I pick skills, I know exatcly what I will do with them and when should I use them. In Mimic’s case – I don’t know this.
My suggestion is quite simple – to make it a Mesmer’s variant of Corrupt Boon. Like:

• Mimic – renamed – Overload (40s CD|Instant cast|1200 range): Remove up to five boons from your foe. Stun(2s) and damage your foe if three or more boons are removed. Unblockable.
  • This change, aimed primarily at PvP, will allow mesmers to expand their build diversity by freeing themselves from mandatory Shattered Concentration trait, while still possessing a powerful tool to remove boons. Stun and instant cast will pair nicely with interrupt-traits
  • Maybe it will be necessary to reduce CD of Arcane Thievery so it stays valiable. While this two skills will partly share their functionality, I see AT as a skill with a more utility purpose, while Overload will be a strictly offensive skill.

For something as good as Overload, you’d need a longer cool down and a fairly long cast-time. Other classes would be complaining of OP-ness otherwise ^^. But otherwise that does sound fantastic, especially your point on shatter build diversity.

WHAT THE ACTUAL KITTEN (meow) ive got a 4 sec block on a 16sec CD be quiet and stop spreading news about this awesome skill, if you use a GS by the way you can proc the block yourself, works awesome in 1v1

RedCobra.7693:

WHAT THE ACTUAL KITTEN (meow) ive got a 4 sec block on a 16sec CD be quiet and stop spreading news about this awesome skill, if you use a GS by the way you can proc the block yourself, works awesome in 1v1

I will respond in this thread, as I don’t see the point for another one on the same subject.
I understand that Mimic has got some uses (were they intended by devs or not). You absolutely can store your own projectile and activate invulnerability. Yet, the need for precasting makes Mimic a much worse reactive defense than Distortion, Blurred Frenzy, Decoy, Blink, even Blurred Inscriptions+Signet of Midnight, because they all are instant. You can’t throw Mirror Blade and absorb it while the warrior is flying to you with an Earthshaker or a S/D thief dances around.
Another point – this sort of Mimic behaviour is not listed anywhere. Hidden things are never healthy for the game, and skills’ description states that the main point of the skill is to absorb and then echo. There is no description of invulnerability and this makes me think that it wasn’t intended.
My last point is about the general concept of manipulations. AT, Blink and IoL are all ranged skills that target something that is distant (foe or area), working good with Far-Reaching Manipulations. Mimic is not a ranged skill unless a condition is met (projectile), and even then untraited Echo has got a satisfying 1200 range, therefore, making Far-Reaching manipulations not so appealing trait to pair with Mimic.
That’s why I think this skill needs a change. I’m not arguing that it could not be used in it’s current state, I only want it to become more in line with game mechanics.

Mendax.9506:

RedCobra.7693:

WHAT THE ACTUAL KITTEN (meow) ive got a 4 sec block on a 16sec CD be quiet and stop spreading news about this awesome skill, if you use a GS by the way you can proc the block yourself, works awesome in 1v1

I will respond in this thread, as I don’t see the point for another one on the same subject.
I understand that Mimic has got some uses (were they intended by devs or not). You absolutely can store your own projectile and activate invulnerability. Yet, the need for precasting makes Mimic a much worse reactive defense than Distortion, Blurred Frenzy, Decoy, Blink, even Blurred Inscriptions+Signet of Midnight, because they all are instant. You can’t throw Mirror Blade and absorb it while the warrior is flying to you with an Earthshaker or a S/D thief dances around.
Another point – this sort of Mimic behaviour is not listed anywhere. Hidden things are never healthy for the game, yet skills’ description states that the main point of the skill is to absorb and then echo. There is no description of invulnerability and this makes me think that it wasn’t intended.
My last point is about the general concept of manipulations. AT, Blink and IoL are all ranged skills that target something that is distant (foe or area), working good with Far-Reaching Manipulations. Mimic is not a ranged skill unless a condition is met (projectile), and even then untraited Echo has got a satisfying 1200 range, therefore, making Far-Reaching manipulations not so appealing trait to pair with Mimic.
That’s why I think this skill needs a change. I’m not arguing that it could not be used in it’s current state, I only want it to become more in line with game mechanics.

i agree, i feel sad thing that one of the traits dont really affect it, someone told me that you take the range of the projectile you absorbed (dont hold me to that) and yeah i use blink and decoy with mimic, this mean that using mimic isnt relied on as an oh £$@% button but more pre-emptive counter for example

a warrior using endure pain, counter it by also becoming invulnerable to him

with mimic its an extremley unused skill, probably the most unused out of all classes and skills, however when used skillfully and correctly it is a very powerful skill indeed,

frankly, i dont care whether or not it was intended to block attacks (OP i know) but so long as people keep using wars with axes and zerk necros/MM ill keep using my block, tbh i would prefer for you to reply in the other thread as i state the clear advantages in there of mimic and even though the main Tool-tip use is a load of hoothoot i state some useful moments to use that aswell

oh and dont take this the wrong way, but how are they the same subject? same topic yes but not subject, one complains about nothing happening to mimic, and my post is about the benefits of mimic and how to use it, to me one sounds like a complaint and the other a guide hmm

I don’t like mimic simply because it’s main use (the 4 sec block) seems to be just a buggy aspect of the skill implication.

You rarely see people saying “omg I love mimic because it mimics things”. It’s “omg if I use it in this way I can block for 4 seconds and can use this rune set to inflict burning when I block”.

It’s poorly designed and implemented.

Get ur grubby hands off my skill!

No seriously, this works fine, my favorite skill and now that they ruined my mantra build for the most part I can go back to using it more. I love using it on necros in their forms, various engineer things I can grab, catching ice bow 5 is really nice or all the fire/earth projectiles from eles, poison shots from several classes since that is one condition we don’t get much of… the list goes on. Now true, unless you see them pull an ice bow or see the poison green line 99% of the time you have no clue what you caught which I’d LOVE if they added to the tooltip(like if it has a condition make the picture the condition), but that would be A LOT of work most likely due to it’s special functionality, so I don’t expect it. I think they updated the tooltip recently so it actually tells you about the blocks/reflects.

This skill is pretty essential for a reflect build, don’t get this skill messed up. Even as an Asura I can run in front of my team and jump around reflecting quite a lot for 4 seconds and it’s not as obvious as feedback so many people take themselves out shooting at me. Secondly it’s great(and about the only reason to run) the Retaliatory Shield, when fighting a zerg or even a team in PvP I can get a good amount of retal from just this skill, also fun with Guardian Runes for condition builds.

Sure it’s a one trick pony you need to setup for, but it’s a one trick pony with a fairly low CD(hard to find) and I find it extremely useful when welding a staff(since you can start it with your own bounce).

About the only reasonable suggestion I see is to make it instant cast(which will require them to add ‘break stun’ to it). While we don’t NEED another stun breaker, having so many fits our class pretty well, we are all about the mind games and breaking tactics(And the infinite knockdown/daze tactic is getting pretty old and needs more counter anyhow). So ANET other then this, I urge you to ignore this whole thread. There is some love for this skill out there.

So TL:DR, if you don’t ‘like’ Mimic you haven’t really tried it long(it has a learning curve, and is greatly better with specialized builds, but short CD near invuln if you do it right even otherwise)

thank you dracatics finally someone else who understands, its 100% an L2P issue with this skill, its extremely powerful in the right hands and ive used it for a very long time now and will continue to do so ^^

Dracatis.1908:

So TL:DR, if you don’t ‘like’ Mimic you haven’t really tried it long(it has a learning curve, and is greatly better with specialized builds, but short CD near invuln if you do it right even otherwise)

I think most people that don’t like mimic have tried it. I used to run it all the time, but I just had to ask myself why I kept doing that when other more generally useful options were available. Like you said, it’s better with specialized builds, which tend to be more situationally useful rather than generally useful.

If it wasn’t for the necessity of having to absorb a projectile to trigger the block effect, then this skill would be much, much better. As it is, it’s completely useless against melee based foes, and it can easily just serve as a “CC me” sign. Of course, if they removed the necessity of projectile absorbing, either the cooldown would need extending or the duration would need to be 1-2 seconds shorter (or a combination of both) to keep it in line.

That being said, I’d possibly end up running it on my shatter build if I could equip 4 utilities.

Dracatis.1908:

Get ur grubby hands off my skill!

No seriously, this works fine, my favorite skill and now that they ruined my mantra build for the most part I can go back to using it more. I love using it on necros in their forms, various engineer things I can grab, catching ice bow 5 is really nice or all the fire/earth projectiles from eles, poison shots from several classes since that is one condition we don’t get much of… the list goes on. Now true, unless you see them pull an ice bow or see the poison green line 99% of the time you have no clue what you caught which I’d LOVE if they added to the tooltip(like if it has a condition make the picture the condition), but that would be A LOT of work most likely due to it’s special functionality, so I don’t expect it. I think they updated the tooltip recently so it actually tells you about the blocks/reflects.

This skill is pretty essential for a reflect build, don’t get this skill messed up. Even as an Asura I can run in front of my team and jump around reflecting quite a lot for 4 seconds and it’s not as obvious as feedback so many people take themselves out shooting at me. Secondly it’s great(and about the only reason to run) the Retaliatory Shield, when fighting a zerg or even a team in PvP I can get a good amount of retal from just this skill, also fun with Guardian Runes for condition builds.

Sure it’s a one trick pony you need to setup for, but it’s a one trick pony with a fairly low CD(hard to find) and I find it extremely useful when welding a staff(since you can start it with your own bounce).

About the only reasonable suggestion I see is to make it instant cast(which will require them to add ‘break stun’ to it). While we don’t NEED another stun breaker, having so many fits our class pretty well, we are all about the mind games and breaking tactics(And the infinite knockdown/daze tactic is getting pretty old and needs more counter anyhow). So ANET other then this, I urge you to ignore this whole thread. There is some love for this skill out there.

So TL:DR, if you don’t ‘like’ Mimic you haven’t really tried it long(it has a learning curve, and is greatly better with specialized builds, but short CD near invuln if you do it right even otherwise)

I never mentioned that I don’t like this skills, neither did I tell the devs to change it to anything. I’m only pointing out the fact that the devs mentioned that this skill wasn’t working as intended so I wonder what exactly they planned to do with it. What is wrong with you telling devs to ignore people’s threads? Reading skill much?

I have an interesting idea: what if mimic was changed to copy the last skill your target used, allowing you to use it one time for free. I would expect it to have an extremely long cool down, but it would provide strong incentive to have excellent combat awareness and combat knowledge. It would appeal to the experienced, level headed Mesmer.

Something like this reminds me of a thief’s steal ability, which is the most interesting thing in their kit (in my opinion). I understand that this is potentially fight defining in wvw and might need to be adjusted for fighting dungeon/world bosses.

I believe this is a good potential redesign of the Mimic skill because it plays to one of the Mesmer’s key strengths: utility.

Thoughts?

Yamsandjams.3267:

Dracatis.1908:

So TL:DR, if you don’t ‘like’ Mimic you haven’t really tried it long(it has a learning curve, and is greatly better with specialized builds, but short CD near invuln if you do it right even otherwise)

I think most people that don’t like mimic have tried it. I used to run it all the time, but I just had to ask myself why I kept doing that when other more generally useful options were available. Like you said, it’s better with specialized builds, which tend to be more situationally useful rather than generally useful.

If it wasn’t for the necessity of having to absorb a projectile to trigger the block effect, then this skill would be much, much better. As it is, it’s completely useless against melee based foes, and it can easily just serve as a “CC me” sign. Of course, if they removed the necessity of projectile absorbing, either the cooldown would need extending or the duration would need to be 1-2 seconds shorter (or a combination of both) to keep it in line.

That being said, I’d possibly end up running it on my shatter build if I could equip 4 utilities.

You do know about the bounce trick right? Any skill that bounces to you can set off the absorb, so you can absorb Staff 1, iDisenchanter, iMage, GS 2, (I hear Pistol works too but haven’t tested it) so it’s not REALLY situation it just takes a little practice and attention.

DavyMcB.1603:

I never mentioned that I don’t like this skills, neither did I tell the devs to change it to anything. I’m only pointing out the fact that the devs mentioned that this skill wasn’t working as intended so I wonder what exactly they planned to do with it. What is wrong with you telling devs to ignore people’s threads? Reading skill much?

Obviously you haven’t read the rest of your thread, most my post wasn’t directed to the OP, however I think at this point, whether or not it was intentionally supposed to be this way, it’s been this way over a year and unlike many of our traits, this skill actually WORKS with them and works itself. I rather they fix something broken which has a list a mile long.