Guild Wars 2

So, that’s from a shatter mesmer point of view , in pvp , and with no team, only solo queue, and I’m not talking about bad thieves, I’m talking about the ones that actually knows what they’re doing.

So what to do when a thief is on you and none of your teammates actually help you get rid of the thief ?

Are we cursed to run/survive and blow all our cooldown until the thief finally kill us when we’re out of cooldown ?

Are we supposed to fight back and hope for the thief to be a bad one ?

Are we supposed to hope our team will wake up and babysitt us each time a thief start chasing us ?

Are we supposed to change our build and run a lame pu/condition build to manage the thieves by ourself ?

The reason I come back on the forum to ask other mesmer the way they manage it , is that I’m a bit tired to get owned by thieves, as good as I think I am there’s nothing I can do vs a good thief if not expect him to do a mistake , and hope that I have some cooldown up to take that opportunity and kill him.

While I know how easy it is for them to kill a shatter mesmer, it’s like a 1 sided fight ,
(a bit offtopic but, in the current meta, is there any other build vs build that is that hard countered in the game ?) which I end up losing because I’m out of cooldown and thieves keeps on evading/stealthing, and pressuring me.

When playing with a premade team aren’t thieves supposed to be killed time for us to kite them while blowing our CDs ?

So are we really only food for thieves , or does that turn into another scenario with a premade team ?

And in solo queue what do you shatter mesmers do when good thieves chase you and no one helps you ?

Thanks

To Tell you frankly, You just need to get lucky, if not you die. That’s it. Generic Forum Tips won’t work if we are talking bout high rated thieves, (Toker, Caed, etc). Coming from shatter mesmer with those games, No thank you sir.

Tele 1 1 1 Tele f1 111 Stealth. YOu get blinded, can’t summon phants.

The absurd Number of Evades too, Evades my f1 burts, Mindstab, Gs2, etc.

How viable is the power shatter in www roaming or spvp? I seem only to be able to kill bear bow ranger with it now a days ( could of crouse be due to lack of skill. Even with zerker burst dont seem to be high enough to take out other classes.

Notimik.3589:

How viable is the power shatter in www roaming or spvp? I seem only to be able to kill bear bow ranger with it now a days ( could of crouse be due to lack of skill. Even with zerker burst dont seem to be high enough to take out other classes.

It is really viable, I can burst anyone down. The trouble comes from thieves and condis. If you don’t have a team and your teammates are maffcabbages and the opposing team has thief that has you all game, goodluck.

But if you have a team and they can peel for you the better. When I am playing solo, i do not take portal (laugh at me if you want) and take cleanse, other people in solo don’t even know how to utilize portals, so yeah.

StickerHappy.8052:

Notimik.3589:

How viable is the power shatter in www roaming or spvp? I seem only to be able to kill bear bow ranger with it now a days ( could of crouse be due to lack of skill. Even with zerker burst dont seem to be high enough to take out other classes.

It is really viable, I can burst anyone down. The trouble comes from thieves and condis. If you don’t have a team and your teammates are maffcabbages and the opposing team has thief that has you all game, goodluck.

But if you have a team and they can peel for you the better. When I am playing solo, i do not take portal (laugh at me if you want) and take cleanse, other people in solo don’t even know how to utilize portals, so yeah.

^this

It’s very viable, but you just have to accept the fact that every X minutes some thief or condi engi will come out of nowhere and wreck your face (and stacks!) and there’s little you can do about it without getting very lucky (i.e. they must be much, much worse at the game than you to lose)

When it comes down to it, you really have to abuse just about every system you can just to stand a chance against better or stellar thieves.

The majority of their gap closers do not require them to be facing you (unlike every other profession) And they cannot have their weapon skills placed on a CD from an interrupt.

you can stop them from attacking with a Daze chain or a Stun but that really only lets them build up more initiative to hit you even harder with.

So, what can you do.

if its a D/D or D/P or SB or P/P you stand a good chance. try not to blow all your gap openers at once, try to use them along with stealth or dodge rolls (or just a blink) to not only get some distance but get Behind them. Heart Seeker might let them catch up to you again but they’ll have to use it a few times to get to you after they blow Steal.

Chaos Storm is a short reprieve from stealth happy ambushers and can let your Cooldowns come off so you can drag the fight out longer.

S/P is very annoying but their evade animations are easier to predict and they are easier to Hit once you’ve got it figured out. Often if you can set up clones and then lead the thief away so they are behind them, you can land a good burst. Its hard to see things coming up from behind and most players get tunnel vision when they think they’re about to win a fight.

S/D hey best of luck, this is pretty much just a hard counter and a middle finger from Anet. Best luck i’ve had is just blowing up in their face Right after they land their #3 evade + small damage hit. If i’ve got a clone or two nearby then its all the better. Honestly tho you do need a team to peel these off of you or else i’d say 99% of the time you are not going to last on or around a point.

Things to Practice would be the dodge roll and then Phase retreat out of camera view (behind) on all players.

Blinking behind players as they line up to take their bigger shots at you.

using Decoy or MI to place yourself somewhere that is least suspected, aka dont just keep running in a straight line or back track slightly…

How this stuff helps:

Gw2 combat is based off of tab targeting and auto targeting.. often if you or a foe is not in your LoS a skill will go onto a half CD or auto lock onto the next nearest target in the LoS cone (in your case probably a clone or Phantasm)

Without monkeying around with targeting and hit/auto attack settings players can easily end up having to try and “find the real mesmer” once their mistake happens and they hit one of your AI buddies. This is either a life saver or only a very short lul where you can heal up or set up a new burst..

Last bit of advice i can give is that while thieves may put pressure on you constantly you cannot play defensively and reactionary as a Glkittenter. You have to return the pressure while flying all over the board which will take a lot of practice to be able to pull off.

PS: standing on the side lines pew pewing away like a bearbow power ranger without looking behind yourself or to the side is a sure fire way to get ganked and gutted by a glass thief, your team cannot help you if you are out of reach or out of the way.

StickerHappy.8052:

Notimik.3589:

How viable is the power shatter in www roaming or spvp? I seem only to be able to kill bear bow ranger with it now a days ( could of crouse be due to lack of skill. Even with zerker burst dont seem to be high enough to take out other classes.

It is really viable, I can burst anyone down. The trouble comes from thieves and condis. If you don’t have a team and your teammates are maffcabbages and the opposing team has thief that has you all game, goodluck.

But if you have a team and they can peel for you the better. When I am playing solo, i do not take portal (laugh at me if you want) and take cleanse, other people in solo don’t even know how to utilize portals, so yeah.

lol, what’s a maffcabbage? xD

I also prefer to take Condi cleanse instead of portal as a solo player (with traveler runes to run around the map faster).

I also play sword/torch with greatsword – yes, not the most suitable thing for conquest, but tbh as a solo player I don’t care. It might not be good in high end organised tpvp, but in solo unorganised play it’s perfectly fine. I like to run:
- energy + air sigils on both sets.
- blade training for lower BF and ileap cooldown
- ielasticity for mirror blade

I find that with all of these together I have a fighting chance against most thieves out there. Of course, there are always the one or two godlike thieves, which a single mistimed skill places you on the back foot and it’s just impossible to recover. But in any case, with the build I prefer to use, there’s always a fighting chance at the outset.

Landing a solid stealth mirror blade MW is usually what I aim for, because trying to catch them with sword immob is like trying to pick up tomato seeds from a table with your fingers. Either that or positional shatters after baiting out some of their evades.

The thing is, despite our disadvantage, fighting a thief is still WAY more fun than fighting an engineer/warrior/guardian/necro/ranger… (of course depending on your build).

Only eles and other mesmers can provide that same level of fun and excitement as enemies.

Mes thi matchup would be way less one sided if they would nerf consume plasma.

Condi Engie wrecking power shatter builds? Are you being serious? Mesmer can 100-0 Engineers with no condi cleanse simply by kiting.

In a perfect world but since the only pvp we have requires you to stand on a circle. Engies are very difficult.

denis.9487:

In a perfect world but since the only pvp we have requires you to stand on a circle. Engies are very difficult.

unless your team has abandoned you or are completely incompetent…

or unless you are attempting to push far by yourself for some strange reason..

you should never have to stand on a circle and fight 1v1. You should be able to skirt around the circle or leave it entirely at any moment if you need to. >.>

Pvp is not based on 1v1 which means,if so happens thief targeting you just use decoy and get some distance cause he will tab you,and being far away enough the tab wont work.

Another thing is thief with S/D will prolly kill you kittenter if you will shatter.In my experience,to kill s/d thieves,you need to get phantasms up and running.Dont ever let yourself out in the open w/o clones/phantasms the more inteligent S/D thieves I faced switched to shortbow,this is where you shatter them hombres.

Portal is your friend,always when you about to cap a point by yourself(alone) and you know they got a thief which could be inc,place portal far enough to get out of sticky situation.

Do not panic,if you in middle of a fight,and thief chose to focusing on you stand near your teammate,target the thief when you can to let your teammate know the divine presence of the thief.(or shout on TS if you are on).

Mind games,thief and shatter mesmer have this mind game:(At least imo):"Oh look,a thief,well,steal inc… " and thief would be like:“mesmer,hmm…..fooooooood”
Thief:“oh look he is doing the blurred frenzy thing,lets avoid it”
mesmer:“Oh kitten,the thief went to stealth what to do!?!?!?”
All these thoughts can be mind blowing,but once you know how thieves work,and how mesmer works,you should never be obvious against thieves.And it goes both ways when thief fighting mesmer.Vashury did had a video about handling thieves,if you havent watched it is a good time to do so.

Not saying thieves are easy kills for me,and not saying im so good that I can kill thieves just with words,I just think thieves and S/D ones in particular,have an adventage on shatter mesmers,but it dosnt mean,by any chance,that shatter mesmer cant outplay even a good S/D thief. I run staff/s-s lockdown build but somtimes using double ranged shatter,amd yes it is hard to deal with thieves but you first of all should avoid unneccessary fights with them,and if you do have to fight one just try to make the most of it.

So with incompetence in play. Just avoid thieves and Engies. Just bring a buddy or run away till you get help. Hence the moaning on why mesmer is not represented in this kind of game play.

Notimik.3589:

How viable is the power shatter in www roaming or spvp? I seem only to be able to kill bear bow ranger with it now a days ( could of crouse be due to lack of skill. Even with zerker burst dont seem to be high enough to take out other classes.

Heya. Power $hatter is still nice for WvW roaming. Not gunna lie, it is a tough WvW out there! Pew pew rangers and condi thieves around every corner.

I use the standard $hatter build in WvW solo roaming and PvP. Depending on my weapon set I use, I know I’ll be weak against certain classes. For example, if I take GS/Sword + X, I’ll have a better chance against thieves and rangers. Unforch, I’ll be weaker against everything else. If I take double range weapons (GS/Staff), I’ll have a better chance at most classes except pew pew rangers and thieves. Hehe. Not to mention everyone and their mama has ascended gear and lots of condi pressure.

Feel free to check out some of my roaming vids or even stop by my Twitch channel. I only do PvP and WvW solo roaming. There is also a lot of dueling there whether it’s in HoTM or OS. Here’s a sample vid I like just because the music in it (and it’s a pretty recent vid). Clench your buns when I get down to 108 health, lel. Also, I make a decent amt of mistakes and the chatters chime in to give tips or answer mesmer questions I need help with (I’m learning still). Oh, I duel a ton of thieves! It’s my favorite class to duel. Maybe it will help you with your thief experiences. Cheers.

Well if you’re not playing top tier, then I see nothing wrong with using a condition build. There is more than just PU you know… You can hold your own against most classes, and you can definitely destroy thieves when on condition Mesmer.

It simply means you have to play a different playstyle and won’t be bursting as much. It also gives you room for support type utilities like Null Field.

MailMail.6534:

Well if you’re not playing top tier, then I see nothing wrong with using a condition build. There is more than just PU you know… You can hold your own against most classes, and you can definitely destroy thieves when on condition Mesmer.

It simply means you have to play a different playstyle and won’t be bursting as much. It also gives you room for support type utilities like Null Field.

Condi mesmer is very strong, but in WvW at least; you can only kill people who are silly or very brave. Everyone else (who isn’t a necro) can just casually walk off into the sunset and there’s nothing you can do to stop them.

Helicity.3416:

MailMail.6534:

Well if you’re not playing top tier, then I see nothing wrong with using a condition build. There is more than just PU you know… You can hold your own against most classes, and you can definitely destroy thieves when on condition Mesmer.

It simply means you have to play a different playstyle and won’t be bursting as much. It also gives you room for support type utilities like Null Field.

Condi mesmer is very strong, but in WvW at least; you can only kill people who are silly or very brave. Everyone else (who isn’t a necro) can just casually walk off into the sunset and there’s nothing you can do to stop them.

+1 Helecity. And Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, Most videos in WvW that i watch, I feel like “Dude do the players the OP face know how to play?” I always get that feeling.

StickerHappy.8052:

Helicity.3416:

MailMail.6534:

Well if you’re not playing top tier, then I see nothing wrong with using a condition build. There is more than just PU you know… You can hold your own against most classes, and you can definitely destroy thieves when on condition Mesmer.

It simply means you have to play a different playstyle and won’t be bursting as much. It also gives you room for support type utilities like Null Field.

Condi mesmer is very strong, but in WvW at least; you can only kill people who are silly or very brave. Everyone else (who isn’t a necro) can just casually walk off into the sunset and there’s nothing you can do to stop them.

+1 Helecity. And Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, Most videos in WvW that i watch, I feel like “Dude do the players the OP face know how to play?” I always get that feeling.

In fairness it always looks like that. And also almost everyone goes “what the hell, let’s do this” from time to time… and pays the price.

The number of times I’ve gotten my face smooshed by a condi mesmer that I knew I should have left alone…

Helicity.3416:

MailMail.6534:

Well if you’re not playing top tier, then I see nothing wrong with using a condition build. There is more than just PU you know… You can hold your own against most classes, and you can definitely destroy thieves when on condition Mesmer.

It simply means you have to play a different playstyle and won’t be bursting as much. It also gives you room for support type utilities like Null Field.

Condi mesmer is very strong, but in WvW at least; you can only kill people who are silly or very brave. Everyone else (who isn’t a necro) can just casually walk off into the sunset and there’s nothing you can do to stop them.

Depends on the build – I’ve been surprised at being able to catch some players that should have got away. Had one thief that tried SR to run, so focus pulled him out of there and between 1200 blink, reverse phase retreat, swiftness from curtain and chaotic interruption (planted a chaos storm ahead of him after blinking within range) I was able to catch up and finish him off.

Condi mesmer is OP….however, most people know this by now. They will walk away from you, lel. And, yes. We have all had that moment when we KNOW we shouldn’t have touched that dirty condi mesmer, but we did and we went and got ourselves kitten, haha. I started off on the build, it is strong in WvW, but people will not be interested in engaging you. You will have a good amount of survivability, though, if that is what interests you. As for WvW vids, yeh. It is a lot more difficult to find decent duelists whilst roaming, however, it is nice to walk around and see different faces than those you see in PvP dueling servers or tPvP matches. It really helps to begin learning who your “enemies” are. Party them up and chat to see if they know any good duelists and perhaps you all can schedule a fight night. I find Fight Nights like little mini parties. You can practice different builds against decent duelists. PvP dueling arenas are also nice! You will find many thieves and mesmers there, lel. Duel as many thieves as you can AND play a thief. You will learn their cooldowns and how they move around you. Cheers! Don’t give up.

It depends on if they are PU or MtD. Walking away from a MtD Mesmer mid-fight isn’t quite as easy without a good amount of condition clears.

The only thing you can do against a thief is hope anet will buff Mesmer or nerf consume plasma. I don’t expect either to happen for a while.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

The only thing you can do against a thief is hope anet will buff Mesmer or nerf consume plasma. I don’t expect either to happen for a while.

Dazes/stuns hit through evades.

Skills go on 1s CD after evade, (especially evade skills)

Consume Plasma has a 50% chance to induce overdose, killing the thief instantly.

Any of these will do.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

The only thing you can do against a thief is hope anet will buff Mesmer or nerf consume plasma. I don’t expect either to happen for a while.

Dazes/stuns hit through evades.

Skills go on 1s CD after evade, (especially evade skills)

Consume Plasma has a 50% chance to induce overdose, killing the thief instantly.

Any of these will do.

Make consume plasma 100% and we have a deal.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

The only thing you can do against a thief is hope anet will buff Mesmer or nerf consume plasma. I don’t expect either to happen for a while.

You see Mesmer isn’t really nerfed, or in need of a buff. The problem we have is the celestial meta means that warrs/eles/engies all bring a lot the table, making them extremely effective to have in a team. This makes less room for a mesmer. Except, Mesmer is great at dealing with celestial builds? Except we can’t fill in that spot because outside of dealing with them we don’t offer a lot to the table at the moment, and thieves still hurt us bad. Mesmer brings huge mobility to a team, but the current meta prioritizes split pushing and spreading onto 3 caps…our mobility isn’t needed as much as another classes sustain.

Oh and about thieves, I don’t think consume plasma is the problem (even though it’s very strong). It’s more to do with steal being so strong against mesmer with the poison preventing us from healing, and the thiefs ability to engage and disengage more easily than us. In a flat damage fight we just have to hit a mirror blade and mind wrack inbetween their flanking strike frames.

Benjamin.8237:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

The only thing you can do against a thief is hope anet will buff Mesmer or nerf consume plasma. I don’t expect either to happen for a while.

You see Mesmer isn’t really nerfed, or in need of a buff. The problem we have is the celestial meta means that warrs/eles/engies all bring a lot the table, making them extremely effective to have in a team. This makes less room for a mesmer. Except, Mesmer is great at dealing with celestial builds? Except we can’t fill in that spot because outside of dealing with them we don’t offer a lot to the table at the moment, and thieves still hurt us bad. Mesmer brings huge mobility to a team, but the current meta prioritizes split pushing and spreading onto 3 caps…our mobility isn’t needed as much as another classes sustain.

Oh and about thieves, I don’t think consume plasma is the problem (even though it’s very strong). It’s more to do with steal being so strong against mesmer with the poison preventing us from healing, and the thiefs ability to engage and disengage more easily than us. In a flat damage fight we just have to hit a mirror blade and mind wrack inbetween their flanking strike frames.

I think steal poison could use a duration nerf personally. As for consume plasma, I tested something and found interesting results. I asked for 3 rounds of a duel if a thief guildie of mine (he was acro s/d) could use consume plasma and I lost 2 out of 3 rounds. With the same thief, i then asked for 3 rounds to steal, just dodge out the consume plasma animation (so he didn’t get the benefit) and I won all 3 rounds. Im not sure how much more evidence is needed that consume plasma makes it much harder for a mes to fight a thief. If it got nerfed we obviously stand a chance.

As for buffing Mesmer, I wasn’t saying buff shatter mes. I was thinking of making our condi removal a bit stronger (arcane thievery) and maybe lockdown a little stronger.

Benjamin.8237:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

The only thing you can do against a thief is hope anet will buff Mesmer or nerf consume plasma. I don’t expect either to happen for a while.

You see Mesmer isn’t really nerfed, or in need of a buff. The problem we have is the celestial meta means that warrs/eles/engies all bring a lot the table, making them extremely effective to have in a team. This makes less room for a mesmer. Except, Mesmer is great at dealing with celestial builds? Except we can’t fill in that spot because outside of dealing with them we don’t offer a lot to the table at the moment, and thieves still hurt us bad. Mesmer brings huge mobility to a team, but the current meta prioritizes split pushing and spreading onto 3 caps…our mobility isn’t needed as much as another classes sustain.

Oh and about thieves, I don’t think consume plasma is the problem (even though it’s very strong). It’s more to do with steal being so strong against mesmer with the poison preventing us from healing, and the thiefs ability to engage and disengage more easily than us. In a flat damage fight we just have to hit a mirror blade and mind wrack inbetween their flanking strike frames.

If a thief comes out of stealth and you’re an interrupt Mesmer, thief = shut down and very likely dead. GG Mesmer.

If a thief comes out of stealth with consume plasma running, stability blocks the ability to interrupt, GG thief.

We have more than enough tools to go toe to toe with a thief, unless you’re running the wrong setup (4, 4, 0, 0, 6 shatter mes for example). Its little things like consume plasma on top of the insta cast no los in conjunction with evade spam and stealth that make it ridiculous.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Benjamin.8237:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

The only thing you can do against a thief is hope anet will buff Mesmer or nerf consume plasma. I don’t expect either to happen for a while.

You see Mesmer isn’t really nerfed, or in need of a buff. The problem we have is the celestial meta means that warrs/eles/engies all bring a lot the table, making them extremely effective to have in a team. This makes less room for a mesmer. Except, Mesmer is great at dealing with celestial builds? Except we can’t fill in that spot because outside of dealing with them we don’t offer a lot to the table at the moment, and thieves still hurt us bad. Mesmer brings huge mobility to a team, but the current meta prioritizes split pushing and spreading onto 3 caps…our mobility isn’t needed as much as another classes sustain.

Oh and about thieves, I don’t think consume plasma is the problem (even though it’s very strong). It’s more to do with steal being so strong against mesmer with the poison preventing us from healing, and the thiefs ability to engage and disengage more easily than us. In a flat damage fight we just have to hit a mirror blade and mind wrack inbetween their flanking strike frames.

If a thief comes out of stealth and you’re an interrupt Mesmer, thief = shut down and very likely dead. GG Mesmer.

If a thief comes out of stealth with consume plasma running, stability blocks the ability to interrupt, GG thief.

We have more than enough tools to go toe to toe with a thief, unless you’re running the wrong setup (4, 4, 0, 0, 6 shatter mes for example). Its little things like consume plasma on top of the insta cast no los in conjunction with evade spam and stealth that make it ridiculous.

But if the thief is running that Absurd number of evades its still hard as he will evade that daze.

StickerHappy.8052:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Benjamin.8237:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

The only thing you can do against a thief is hope anet will buff Mesmer or nerf consume plasma. I don’t expect either to happen for a while.

You see Mesmer isn’t really nerfed, or in need of a buff. The problem we have is the celestial meta means that warrs/eles/engies all bring a lot the table, making them extremely effective to have in a team. This makes less room for a mesmer. Except, Mesmer is great at dealing with celestial builds? Except we can’t fill in that spot because outside of dealing with them we don’t offer a lot to the table at the moment, and thieves still hurt us bad. Mesmer brings huge mobility to a team, but the current meta prioritizes split pushing and spreading onto 3 caps…our mobility isn’t needed as much as another classes sustain.

Oh and about thieves, I don’t think consume plasma is the problem (even though it’s very strong). It’s more to do with steal being so strong against mesmer with the poison preventing us from healing, and the thiefs ability to engage and disengage more easily than us. In a flat damage fight we just have to hit a mirror blade and mind wrack inbetween their flanking strike frames.

If a thief comes out of stealth and you’re an interrupt Mesmer, thief = shut down and very likely dead. GG Mesmer.

If a thief comes out of stealth with consume plasma running, stability blocks the ability to interrupt, GG thief.

We have more than enough tools to go toe to toe with a thief, unless you’re running the wrong setup (4, 4, 0, 0, 6 shatter mes for example). Its little things like consume plasma on top of the insta cast no los in conjunction with evade spam and stealth that make it ridiculous.

But if the thief is running that Absurd number of evades its still hard as he will evade that daze.

I never said it’d be easy. I said you can go toe to toe. You’ve not only got to bring the right tools for the job, you’ve got to know your kitten.

Here’s a 1v2 thief tag team on Phantrupt Asskicker, ranked arena, good thieves. As a shatter it’d of been over before it began.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A55t0vzyvyA&feature=youtu.be

FIGHT! You need to realize that a high damage thief is just as squishy as you are. Shatter mesmer can deal with thieves well if you have enough damage. A thief who eats a full shatter is in big trouble, easier said than done though.

The thing to realize is that you need to make your shatter count. When I fight thieves instead of running (losing battle since they’re faster) I try to put on as much dps as possible as fast as possible to turn the fight around.

Condi specs are often more susceptible to thieves because of thieves condi cleans trait. A patient thief will not die to condi’s if they use that trait properly. Power/crit shatter builds can actually handle thieves well if you dont let them get the jump on you.

Last suggestion. Try playing a thief, level one up. That helps a ton once you see how they work in detail.