Guild Wars 2

First off I’ve been playing Mesmer since release, why I’m so passionate about the class and why I don’t just leave it for an alt. Frequently Mesmer is brought up in World Chat. Usually random conversation about WvW. Of course Mesmer conversation is particularly a touchy subject to me, I usually always chime in on it. I always get the same responses..

Whenever I bring up the fact that Mesmers do have issues in WvW I instantly get blasted and everyone tells me I need to L2P.

This is what I get:

“Portal is everything!”

“Portal is the best!”

“But, you have Portal!”

“That’s a personal problem.”

“You can’t see it from the outside, since you main a Mesmer.”

“You’re more useful then a commander.”

“You have burst, it’s called shatter.”

“If your clones die before you can land a shatter, idk what to tell you.”

“You want to be a difference maker in a zerg?”

“I only see about 2 Mesmer’s for Portal.”

“You are useful, you have portal.”

“You’re amazing at roaming though.”

And it continues from here, mainly comments about portal.

So my questions are these, what’s your opinion on the state of Mesmer in WvW?

Am I just delusional and there are no problems?

Are we forever stuck as just a Portal/Veil bot? Are we a Portal/Veil bot?

Do we actually have comparable damage to others in a zerg?

Or is it we’ve built up some much negative thoughts here on the forums about Mesmer but really none of it is true?

I read the forums here and I see A LOT of issues that we have. It just looks like the majority of players (that don’t main a Mes, or play one once a month) think the Mesmer is almost godlike. We have no flaws, we have shatter, PU/Veil, and Portal. I won’t get into PVE here, because I know for a fact there are issues there. I’m mainly a PVE guy and I see the problems first hand, all the time. This is another reason why I’m jumping on the forums asking for your opinion on the matter. Maybe we’re expecting too much from the upcoming changes, or maybe expecting too little. I think if Mesmer gets any type of buffs or positive changes the community is going to outrage and it won’t be long until we’re nerfed hard in the ground again.

Thanks for reading!

TL;DR: Are Mesmers only good in WvW because of Portal/Veil? Do we have any zerg damage output comparable to others? Are we forever a support class?

I’m surprised this question hasn’t been answered already. Here’s the raw deal:

• Mesmer used to be hella effective in zergs

The problems now are that -without the Glamour damage of a couple years back- we’re stuck with sub-par damage/tagging ability. Illusions tend to melt fast as all Hades inside the enemy blob. Also, while ANet did in fact make certain Mantras AoE, the radius of effect is so small that you practically have to hump your associates’ leg to get them affected.

Unfortunately, as it stands, Mesmer IS a support class in zerg combat.

However, for solo work or small (5-10 man) runs, the weak points of shatter are far less pronounced, and you’re more likely to be able to land a well-timed cleanse or stability Mantra on your team. Chaos Storm for boons is also workable then.

Advent.6193:

I’m surprised this question hasn’t been answered already. Here’s the raw deal:

• Mesmer used to be hella effective in zergs

The problems now are that -without the Glamour damage of a couple years back- we’re stuck with sub-par damage/tagging ability. Illusions tend to melt fast as all Hades inside the enemy blob. Also, while ANet did in fact make certain Mantras AoE, the radius of effect is so small that you practically have to hump your associates’ leg to get them affected.

Unfortunately, as it stands, Mesmer IS a support class in zerg combat.

However, for solo work or small (5-10 man) runs, the weak points of shatter are far less pronounced, and you’re more likely to be able to land a well-timed cleanse or stability Mantra on your team. Chaos Storm for boons is also workable then.

I agree, I miss the Glamour days.

I’m alright with having the ability to play support but we need to have something viable other then just support. I feel like it kinda breaks the purpose of what GW2 was originally suppose to be. Unless I’m just mistaken.

Mesmer at the moment is good for veils and portals, however portal is only used in niche situations. Everything else is outclassed by every other profession.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Mesmer at the moment is good for veils and portals, however portal is only used in niche situations. Everything else is outclassed by every other profession.

Why do you think so many people think otherwise? Are you happy with the state of Mesmer?

Advent.6193:

• Mesmer used to be hella effective in zergs

Bay Area guy >.>

You’re a veilbot in zergs. You’ll be the integral guy stealthing your train and then running around on the outskirts annoying staff eles.

You’re a complete monster in small group. Shatter is, bar none, the most dangerous spec in a competent small team (we’re talking 5-10 people). You can burst small groups very quickly, and there’s less pressure to kill your clones before you can get it off.

Don’t get me wrong, its still going to be frustrating as hell due to the multitudinous bugs. You’ll also need 2-3 support partners, you don’t have stab nor cleanse, and you die very quickly without protection. Both the boon and the support guards healing you.

WvW also isn’t the most welcoming environment to this type of player either. You’ll have to pick your fights and know when to bail. And you’ll bail a lot. But kitten is it satisfying to watch people melt to your and your buddies.

spearchuka.5972:

You’re a veilbot in zergs. You’ll be the integral guy stealthing your train and then running around on the outskirts annoying staff eles.

You’re a complete monster in small group. Shatter is, bar none, the most dangerous spec in a competent small team (we’re talking 5-10 people). You can burst small groups very quickly, and there’s less pressure to kill your clones before you can get it off.

Don’t get me wrong, its still going to be frustrating as hell due to the multitudinous bugs. You’ll also need 2-3 support partners, you don’t have stab nor cleanse, and you die very quickly without protection. Both the boon and the support guards healing you.

WvW also isn’t the most welcoming environment to this type of player either. You’ll have to pick your fights and know when to bail. And you’ll bail a lot. But kitten is it satisfying to watch people melt to your and your buddies.

Yep I’ve seen small organized groups use Mesmer shatter and it’s nice. It’s just unfortunate to be useful, it has be extremely organized. Which seems to fall back on us not being very viable in most situations.

Kirito.9207:

spearchuka.5972:

You’re a veilbot in zergs. You’ll be the integral guy stealthing your train and then running around on the outskirts annoying staff eles.

You’re a complete monster in small group. Shatter is, bar none, the most dangerous spec in a competent small team (we’re talking 5-10 people). You can burst small groups very quickly, and there’s less pressure to kill your clones before you can get it off.

Don’t get me wrong, its still going to be frustrating as hell due to the multitudinous bugs. You’ll also need 2-3 support partners, you don’t have stab nor cleanse, and you die very quickly without protection. Both the boon and the support guards healing you.

WvW also isn’t the most welcoming environment to this type of player either. You’ll have to pick your fights and know when to bail. And you’ll bail a lot. But kitten is it satisfying to watch people melt to your and your buddies.

Yep I’ve seen small organized groups use Mesmer shatter and it’s nice. It’s just unfortunate to be useful, it has be extremely organized. Which seems to fall back on us not being very viable in most situations.

Organization isn’t a factor. You can be effective in a disorganized 5-10man group, but no matter how organized your 25 person raid is, mesmer will be useless except for veil.

Fay.2357:

Kirito.9207:

spearchuka.5972:

You’re a veilbot in zergs. You’ll be the integral guy stealthing your train and then running around on the outskirts annoying staff eles.

You’re a complete monster in small group. Shatter is, bar none, the most dangerous spec in a competent small team (we’re talking 5-10 people). You can burst small groups very quickly, and there’s less pressure to kill your clones before you can get it off.

Don’t get me wrong, its still going to be frustrating as hell due to the multitudinous bugs. You’ll also need 2-3 support partners, you don’t have stab nor cleanse, and you die very quickly without protection. Both the boon and the support guards healing you.

WvW also isn’t the most welcoming environment to this type of player either. You’ll have to pick your fights and know when to bail. And you’ll bail a lot. But kitten is it satisfying to watch people melt to your and your buddies.

Yep I’ve seen small organized groups use Mesmer shatter and it’s nice. It’s just unfortunate to be useful, it has be extremely organized. Which seems to fall back on us not being very viable in most situations.

Organization isn’t a factor. You can be effective in a disorganized 5-10man group, but no matter how organized your 25 person raid is, mesmer will be useless except for veil.

I wonder why a lot of people think it’s so amazing to be the person to cast portal and veil.

It’s not fun at all.

Kirito.9207:

I wonder why a lot of people think it’s so amazing to be the person to cast portal and veil.

It’s not fun at all.

I doubt any mesmer who runs in a zerg regularly will you tell that its that much fun. Its probably more due to guild loyalty/etc that has them doing it.

But who knows, different strokes n’ all. I can’t fathom enjoying being in a hammer train but other people clearly do.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Mesmer at the moment is good for veils and portals, however portal is only used in niche situations. Everything else is outclassed by every other profession.

I see more portals in a single guild puzzle than I do in an entire month of playing WvW every day.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Mesmer at the moment is good for veils and portals, however portal is only used in niche situations. Everything else is outclassed by every other profession.

I see more portals in a single guild puzzle than I do in an entire month of playing WvW every day.

Really that low?

I know when I play WvW I don’t see very many Mesmers. At least from my point of view, it can be hard to tell at times.

I did offer portal bombs in the past but rarely taken by pug commanders (duh). Although I probably deserved that since I like to drop portal at objective captured chest.

Kirito.9207:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Mesmer at the moment is good for veils and portals, however portal is only used in niche situations. Everything else is outclassed by every other profession.

Why do you think so many people think otherwise? Are you happy with the state of Mesmer?

They don’t want you to get so discouraged that you stop playing mesmer and they lose their portals and veils.

It’s hard to tell “how good is mesmer at WvW”, because WvW means some very different things to different people.

We are viable in tiny and small scale (up to 10-15 I’d say) with PU and Shatter builds, but over that number we are increasingly useless, outside the very niche use of portal and veil.

We have horrible AoE ground-cast damage (GS 3, Staff 5), glamours have been nerfed to the ground ages ago (and the current meta has a lot of condition cleanse so these builds are even less effective), the interrupt builds require too much finesse and/or luck (RNG issues with chaos storm) to apply properly in a big group setting (and mantra of distraction is still single target) and our main class mechanic (shatters) simply doesn’t work in a setting where the clones will die pretty much istantly from AoE damage (and the recent Sword 3 nerf really hurts in that regard).

At the moment, I’m only playing mesmer when we roam as a guild (5 to 12 people).

If we play in a “proper raid” with frontliners and backliners I’m usually a lot more useful as a Warrior, Guardian or Necro. You lose a lot more fights for lack of condition cleanse, stability or damage, than for lack of veil or portal.

Menaka.5092:

It’s hard to tell “how good is mesmer at WvW”, because WvW means some very different things to different people.

We are viable in tiny and small scale (up to 10-15 I’d say) with PU and Shatter builds, but over that number we are increasingly useless, outside the very niche use of portal and veil.

We have horrible AoE ground-cast damage (GS 3, Staff 5), glamours have been nerfed to the ground ages ago (and the current meta has a lot of condition cleanse so these builds are even less effective), the interrupt builds require too much finesse and/or luck (RNG issues with chaos storm) to apply properly in a big group setting (and mantra of distraction is still single target) and our main class mechanic (shatters) simply doesn’t work in a setting where the clones will die pretty much istantly from AoE damage (and the recent Sword 3 nerf really hurts in that regard).

At the moment, I’m only playing mesmer when we roam as a guild (5 to 12 people).

If we play in a “proper raid” with frontliners and backliners I’m usually a lot more useful as a Warrior, Guardian or Necro. You lose a lot more fights for lack of condition cleanse, stability or damage, than for lack of veil or portal.

Thanks for sharing that.

dandamanno.4136:

Kirito.9207:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Mesmer at the moment is good for veils and portals, however portal is only used in niche situations. Everything else is outclassed by every other profession.

Why do you think so many people think otherwise? Are you happy with the state of Mesmer?

They don’t want you to get so discouraged that you stop playing mesmer and they lose their portals and veils.

I guess that makes sense. Very frustrating to think that way.

Kirito.9207:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Mesmer at the moment is good for veils and portals, however portal is only used in niche situations. Everything else is outclassed by every other profession.

Why do you think so many people think otherwise? Are you happy with the state of Mesmer?

The reason I think this is because ive had plenty of experience on mes, about 2 years with the top gvg guilds on NA. My or another thief can do much more burst and damage as well have better boon steal (it strips stability and protection first with bountiful theft ) and survive for way longer in a gank group (which go after eles,necros, anyone out of position, or other gank groups). Mesmer had a clear role when glamour wasn’t nerfed. Now its a worse thief.

As for the state of Mesmer, I find it quite awful since almost all the damage from a Mesmer can be destroyed, which no other class has to deal with. Mesmers have had much better days.

Now, this is not to say I hate playing my Mesmer. I absolutely love playing my mes and play it as much as I can. I find every class doesn’t suit my style as much but im forced to play other classes to be more effective and it really sucks. I wish my Mesmer was viable

I’ll sum up my thoughts on running Mesmer in WvW in a few words.

“WvW?”

“Hold on, lemme switch to my (insert Ele/Warrior/Guardian/Necro Here) and I’ll brt”

Veilbot.

/thread

Swish.2463:

I’ll sum up my thoughts on running Mesmer in WvW in a few words.

“WvW?”

“Hold on, lemme switch to my (insert Ele/Warrior/Guardian/Necro Here) and I’ll brt”

Vanzi.9857:

Veilbot.

/thread

Are you happy about that though?

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Kirito.9207:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Mesmer at the moment is good for veils and portals, however portal is only used in niche situations. Everything else is outclassed by every other profession.

Why do you think so many people think otherwise? Are you happy with the state of Mesmer?

The reason I think this is because ive had plenty of experience on mes, about 2 years with the top gvg guilds on NA. My or another thief can do much more burst and damage as well have better boon steal (it strips stability and protection first with bountiful theft ) and survive for way longer in a gank group (which go after eles,necros, anyone out of position, or other gank groups). Mesmer had a clear role when glamour wasn’t nerfed. Now its a worse thief.

As for the state of Mesmer, I find it quite awful since almost all the damage from a Mesmer can be destroyed, which no other class has to deal with. Mesmers have had much better days.

Now, this is not to say I hate playing my Mesmer. I absolutely love playing my mes and play it as much as I can. I find every class doesn’t suit my style as much but im forced to play other classes to be more effective and it really sucks. I wish my Mesmer was viable

Thanks for sharing! I totally agree with you, playing Mesmer is fun! I tried to level a couple alts and it just wasn’t very fun for me. It’s just frustrating because at the same time playing Mesmer I always have that feeling in the back of my head that I could be doing better for the group if I just switched.

Advent.6193:

I’m surprised this question hasn’t been answered already. Here’s the raw deal:

• Mesmer used to be hella effective in zergs

That sums it up for me as well.
I love the theme of the class and was SO excited when they came out. It felt like we had a few strong builds for roaming and small engagements as well as a few for larger zergy fights. Reflections felt strong, Confusion/glamour felt strong. Conditions didn’t feel as easily removed.

A lot of those seem to have vanished. My best shot at contributing to a large zerg fight now is a quick GS phantasm+shatter, the occasional Chaos Storm, and then surviving long enough to veil or null field when I can.

I’m much more useful to my server’s groups when I play my elementalist, and frequently get asked to do just that.

To quickly sum up- I started the class when it felt like an alternate to the AoE power of an Elementalist. Right now I feel like a weak Thief.

Vanzi.9857:

Veilbot.

/thread

^THIS

Also as others have already pointed out, we’re mostly useful in small man fighting or roaming. If you like large scale / zerg fighting, play a different class unless you don’t mind being a support bot. I personally don’t like large scale fighting and prefer to small man / roam so I highly enjoy my Mesmer in WvW. It really comes down to your personal preferences and what type of Mesmer you want to play. ANET needs to give us more AoE damage to be more viable in large scale fighting, after-all isn’t this game suppose to promote build diversity?

Syprus Soulslayer.1640:

Vanzi.9857:

Veilbot.

/thread

^THIS

Also as others have already pointed out, we’re mostly useful in small man fighting or roaming. If you like large scale / zerg fighting, play a different class unless you don’t mind being a support bot. I personally don’t like large scale fighting and prefer to small man / roam so I highly enjoy my Mesmer in WvW. It really comes down to your personal preferences and what type of Mesmer you want to play. ANET needs to give us more AoE damage to be more viable in large scale fighting, after-all isn’t this game suppose to promote build diversity?

Unfortunately the way the devs were last talking about Mesmer they wouldn’t stop going on about the Utility we had. It’s like they’ve decided to try and make us a support class instead of anything else, or at least viable in anything else.

So there are 5 types of things you can do as a WvW mesmer.

Zerg – Viel/Null field/Sig of Inspitations/Mass Invis(or Time Warp) bot, use GS/Staff to AoE and buff.

Solo/Gank team PU – Hunt for people that look distracted or weak, stop people from flipping objectives, hide in an objective that is about to flip and portal people in. Flip supply camps if your good, flip guards and merc camps(then use them to flip supply camps) if you aren’t.

Team (Max 20) portal bomber – have your team hide/buff as you run in with stealth/stability and release the chaos for an easy zerg bust.

Golem Rush Mesmer – dedicated golem team which you port around and try to keep safe quickly ninja’ing buildings.

And last but not least, my favorite…

Reflect Mesmer (Zerg or Small team) – 90% of zerglings only do range things… 90% of range is projectiles… Feedback, Warden’s Feedback, Medic’s Feedback, Masterful Reflection(Blurred Signets helps with it), Mirror(Or Signet of Ether with Blurred Signets). Basically with Staff and X/Focus you can make a zone of relative safety as you haunt the frontlines. You want high Crit but somewhat tanky gear with this to survive well. Also it might help if your a Norn or Charr (I jump around as an Asura when I have distortion/Mirror reflects going, but would probably be easier if I was just bigger).

If you want to do awesome things, get in a good tank/buff/zerg busting team, portal bomb, sneak in and portal them into places being flipped, set a defensive spot(like the arch in the west supply) and reflect when a zerg attempts to fight you(I’ve beat zergs 3 times our size doing this).

Dracatis.1908:

Team (Max 20) portal bomber – have your team hide/buff as you run in with stealth/stability and release the chaos for an easy zerg bust.

This only works against bad players. Generally, if people even hear the portal song inside their zerg, the commander will instantly call for full aoe on the spot, and everyone coming through will just melt.

Dracatis.1908:

Reflect Mesmer (Zerg or Small team) – 90% of zerglings only do range things… 90% of range is projectiles… Feedback, Warden’s Feedback, Medic’s Feedback, Masterful Reflection(Blurred Signets helps with it), Mirror(Or Signet of Ether with Blurred Signets). Basically with Staff and X/Focus you can make a zone of relative safety as you haunt the frontlines. You want high Crit but somewhat tanky gear with this to survive well. Also it might help if your a Norn or Charr (I jump around as an Asura when I have distortion/Mirror reflects going, but would probably be easier if I was just bigger).

This used to work amazingly. However, current zergs are more and more dominated by the hammertrain and ground target aoes. You’ll get some reflects here and there if you’re creative with your skills, but it’s not always effective at all.

Fay.2357:

Dracatis.1908:

Team (Max 20) portal bomber – have your team hide/buff as you run in with stealth/stability and release the chaos for an easy zerg bust.

This only works against bad players. Generally, if people even hear the portal song inside their zerg, the commander will instantly call for full aoe on the spot, and everyone coming through will just melt.

I still take down pretty high rated huge guild raids with portal bombs… however I’ll be the first to admit it takes a lot of practice and a little luck. (Also helps if your an Asura, I don’t know why but people seem to ignore the red named cute little thing suddenly in the middle of their zerg). Though Hammer/Necro spam zergs can be a bit annoying(I tend to run Null Field, Mantra of Stability and Staff to help negate some of the AoE when they figure out. You can’t do this without Voice Chat, people need to be bashing F and through the portal the instant you lay it.

Fay.2357:

Dracatis.1908:

Reflect Mesmer (Zerg or Small team) – 90% of zerglings only do range things… 90% of range is projectiles… Feedback, Warden’s Feedback, Medic’s Feedback, Masterful Reflection(Blurred Signets helps with it), Mirror(Or Signet of Ether with Blurred Signets). Basically with Staff and X/Focus you can make a zone of relative safety as you haunt the frontlines. You want high Crit but somewhat tanky gear with this to survive well. Also it might help if your a Norn or Charr (I jump around as an Asura when I have distortion/Mirror reflects going, but would probably be easier if I was just bigger).

This used to work amazingly. However, current zergs are more and more dominated by the hammertrain and ground target aoes. You’ll get some reflects here and there if you’re creative with your skills, but it’s not always effective at all.

Yea since the glamour debuffs it’s not AS good but still viable especially since signet reflect works now… if only they would fix Triumphant Distortion reflect. The key here is your only one part of the solution. Hammertrain requires people behind it doing DPS with a couple guardians spamming stability, your DPS can focus things down while you keep some of their DPS off and keep people up. There is no perfect solution… but if everyone plays their part…

Dracatis.1908:

Fay.2357:

Dracatis.1908:

Team (Max 20) portal bomber – have your team hide/buff as you run in with stealth/stability and release the chaos for an easy zerg bust.

This only works against bad players. Generally, if people even hear the portal song inside their zerg, the commander will instantly call for full aoe on the spot, and everyone coming through will just melt.

I still take down pretty high rated huge guild raids with portal bombs… however I’ll be the first to admit it takes a lot of practice and a little luck. (Also helps if your an Asura, I don’t know why but people seem to ignore the red named cute little thing suddenly in the middle of their zerg). Though Hammer/Necro spam zergs can be a bit annoying(I tend to run Null Field, Mantra of Stability and Staff to help negate some of the AoE when they figure out. You can’t do this without Voice Chat, people need to be bashing F and through the portal the instant you lay it.

Fay.2357:

Dracatis.1908:

Reflect Mesmer (Zerg or Small team) – 90% of zerglings only do range things… 90% of range is projectiles… Feedback, Warden’s Feedback, Medic’s Feedback, Masterful Reflection(Blurred Signets helps with it), Mirror(Or Signet of Ether with Blurred Signets). Basically with Staff and X/Focus you can make a zone of relative safety as you haunt the frontlines. You want high Crit but somewhat tanky gear with this to survive well. Also it might help if your a Norn or Charr (I jump around as an Asura when I have distortion/Mirror reflects going, but would probably be easier if I was just bigger).

This used to work amazingly. However, current zergs are more and more dominated by the hammertrain and ground target aoes. You’ll get some reflects here and there if you’re creative with your skills, but it’s not always effective at all.

Yea since the glamour debuffs it’s not AS good but still viable especially since signet reflect works now… if only they would fix Triumphant Distortion reflect. The key here is your only one part of the solution. Hammertrain requires people behind it doing DPS with a couple guardians spamming stability, your DPS can focus things down while you keep some of their DPS off and keep people up. There is no perfect solution… but if everyone plays their part…

Really, any good group should slaughter a portalbomb into the middle of their group. Now, if you’re using the portals for mobility to fight around a group, then that’s another thing entirely.

Reflects again are very inconsistent. Against pug zergs, it can work really well. However, try going on a reflect build into a GvG. You’ll get next to nothing. Almost all damage is hammertrain and other gtaoe.

Fay.2357:

Really, any good group should slaughter a portalbomb into the middle of their group. Now, if you’re using the portals for mobility to fight around a group, then that’s another thing entirely.

Reflects again are very inconsistent. Against pug zergs, it can work really well. However, try going on a reflect build into a GvG. You’ll get next to nothing. Almost all damage is hammertrain and other gtaoe.

This is so true. When we see an emey attempt to portal bomb, we go up the portal, watch the mesmer drop its portal, and then drop a poop load of wells statics, lava fonts, and hammer trains on the portal. Its typically free bags.

And yeah reflects are only viable when karma train hunting in Eotm, since 75% of their zergs are upleveled longbow rangers. And few people in a pug zerg want to do that much more than spam ranged skills… since pugginess.

Except that reflect fails most of the time and the Focus Phantasm doesn’t work OR reflect. I lost interest in WvW. Mesmer doesn’t have the damage or survivability to be fun.

Ithilwen.1529:

Except that reflect fails most of the time and the Focus Phantasm doesn’t work OR reflect. I lost interest in WvW. Mesmer doesn’t have the damage or survivability to be fun.

Oh yeah, we didn’t even have our mesmer with us when our GvG team farmed edge zergs. We just used guardian walls of reflection against them. And we used our gank squad to shadow refuge us, which was more awkward and clunky than using veil, but it still got the job done, and we managed to win fights against pug zergs many times out size :p

Understanding mes in wvw, as well requires knowladge for gw2 mechanic and its philisophy..
In simple,
Gw2 game modes : StructuredPvP, pve, wvw
- spvp: is just only competitive mode cuz of game mechanic made with/for 5v5 structured caping/pointing system.. Which has ladder and esporting..
- pve: piece of cake for casual playing
- wvw: chaotic enviroment.. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

Www, has various scaled groups,

• Large scale groups, has various environments
  Raiding/random encountering zergs
  - Zergs: have some various goals, and they are 2 organizations, competitive/challenging or scrub/casual
  _ pug zergs or guild zergs with/without blobbing.. Full/semi/none competitive.. Has all different goals
  o deathmatching, destroying faced enemy groups
  o roleplaying, troll raids, drunken raids, rpg, etc..
  o farming, badges, karma training, gold, achivement(probably fit moreforsmall scales)..

And they ve different compositions,
- As heavy melee train: as [GH] whose peripheries as well run with train with full compact..
- skirmish group, as early of noob pug zergs, who are ranging always, as just looking for most loot baging and lacking of organized frontline tankies..
- balanced, who has front mid backs

These compositions made naturely for better efficients.. Cuz of how many players online in wvw with similar goals, and game mechanic aoe cap..

However these raiding large scaled groups if organizedly challenged each other, it can gvg as in any part of wvw map or gvg as in obsidan sanctrum…

As there is solo roam which can be 1vs1 or 2 or many, as solo play it can be duels organized/random encounters 1v1 deathmatch…

Or small scale groups as well can play main goal of gw2 wvw philosphy for wvw points? :S or may look for famrming challenge trolling influence via e advertisement, testing/practice… Every thing can as solo or large scale groups..

I wrote them cuz how various/differ wvw can be that experessing something about mesmer without experssing where/how/why wont mean much anything..

Lets go with mesmer: mesmer is a class over 8 proff ya? And where as thereis no cap for selecting any class to your group composition + gw2 balance philisophy + wvw zergs requirements = mesmer mean veil,boting in organized groups who looks for most/better efficient as for deathmatch modes..

What is this meta say veilbot, meaning: why we have 8different classes who has different cons/pros in major/minor goals or tactical/strategic strengths-weaknesses.. So mesmer doesnt have any seats in any roles.. Cuz of not meeting requirements of his large scaled goals.. However every guilds wants atleast 1or2 veils or rarely portals for fun.. Rather than being class u required just for veil utility for zergs..

I was saying the same things Since Blurred Frenzy got nerfed to evade.. Most mesmer community was opposite to me.. However more and more ppl with increasing knowladge, experiance and done nerfs let ppl say mesmers re Veil bots for large scale grouping..

Lets discuss efficient of mesmer to his organized sync ed sinergied large scale group.. In various roles.. Seperately or/with overall
For gvg or guild raids groups.. And question for it is “Why would u choose mesmer in your organized zergs?”

Think that none of mesmers use veil..
- can harras/sustain damage enemy train better than necros, staff eles? While than damage, is there any build that can support his allies or cc enemies better than them?
Either while tanking, can dps and support and cc? Than guardian? and lets add to Risk&reward system mechanic of mesmer vs others? while mesmer ll have more challenge on risky composition fo higher its efficient, whereas reward is more less than tpvp mechanic.. yes as already told gw2 mechanic <—> 5v5 Structured pvp

And the most difference tpvp mes is from wvw mes.. Is there is no comfortable can position yourself in obsidan sanc while thiefs by close to all time.. And more action/less unconnection time in gvg.. Annnd there is no respawn..

Lets do analytic.. To be continued

I just want to say that most of the Mesmer’s skill NEED a target.
So, yeah, we’ve portals, veils, MI, TW… etc… bla bla and more.
In ZvZ situations I just think “WHERE ARE MY CLONES? WHERE IS MY TARGET?” then I get controlled and smashed down by Warr/Guard’s hammers or an omnipresent Ele’s meteor unexpectedly hits me. And, if I can blink away safely, there are always some Thief/Necro/Ranger that finish the job.

I love Mesmers, but apart the well-known skills we have, its almost useless in large fights.

In large groups, I play my mesmer less like an elementalist/necromancer and more like a thief.

Ele/Necros seem to offer big fat AoE support and damage. They do pressure damage on multiple people. Not every class can fill that role and mesmers are definitely not in a place to match their contribution in those areas.

Instead, I focus on performing like a thief or ranger. I zip in and out of smaller encounters on the periphery, bursting down squishies. Occasionally I’ll toss a support spell like feedback, null field, chaos storm, or phantasmal berserker into the blob. Most of the time, however- think thief, not staff ele.

the only thing i use my mesmer for is basically tower defense.

Kelthien.8593:

In large groups, I play my mesmer less like an elementalist/necromancer and more like a thief.

Ele/Necros seem to offer big fat AoE support and damage. They do pressure damage on multiple people. Not every class can fill that role and mesmers are definitely not in a place to match their contribution in those areas.

Instead, I focus on performing like a thief or ranger. I zip in and out of smaller encounters on the periphery, bursting down squishies. Occasionally I’ll toss a support spell like feedback, null field, chaos storm, or phantasmal berserker into the blob. Most of the time, however- think thief, not staff ele.

if u are in pugs zerg with blob and if fight vs the same as your group.. so play what ever u liked to however if there are some organizationed groups faced how u role as that.. their thiefs ll get u in sec.. so your efficient to your group ll become `0` or more —> rallybot will give high opportunity to others.. what ever u ve nullfield feedback or tw.. will be so much useless.. how u survive without blink decoy.. and wont u ve veil ?