Guild Wars 2

Where to begin, I have taken to lately to running an interrupt build aiming for an almost total reliance on sword offhands daze. Now this in part has been done to help me retrain myself into being able to use it reliably to mess with rangers and the like but it has led me to some intriguing findings.

First, we need some way to prevent the block from triggering.
I cannot shout this loud enough, to often I am trying to interrupt a rangers longbow spam and when I go to hit the sword 4 skill I find no daze fires, why because the block triggered and a useless clone was spawned and killed within the same instant. I will be honest, I would prefer to see the clone removed entirely from the skill and replaced with a daze. In this way we gain some defensive interrupting, and it would not be so frustrating to have the wrong effect trigger when you are itching for a halting strike.

Secondly, the speed is not as much of an issue as you would think. While I would love to see the projectile become faster, at this point, I find that as I am usually relying on sword sword, I am usually close enough to the enemy that the speed is irrelevant.

Cooldown. The cooldown is low enough that this skill has become our most frequently viable interrupt. For me this is important, I like the idea of always having an interrupt skill on hand, (To the point I used to run IP just so I could use a solo diversion if I ran out of interrupts) This said, I cannot help but feel that this skill could use a a 2s or so shortening of the cooldown. If we are going to keep it as a double function skill that can be buggered by incoming damage it would be nice to be able to use it more frequently. Perhaps on a similar cooldown to the block on the scepter.

Finally, why the hell are there no guides singing the praises of this single skill. While yes it does take time to adjust to, I am readily finding myself relying on it to interrupt stomps and heals in place of the daze mantra. Perhaps in time I will feel comfortable enough to run without mantra of distraction at all while still aiming to be a interrupt base build.

PS, Dreams for the future.

I would like to see a tightening up on this skill. It does sometimes feel a little clunky, and I feel it could benefit from a halving of the cast time. This would make it more responsive and could lead to it being a true replacement for MoD. Indeed I would not mind a trait somewhere that removed the block from the skill entirely if it came as granting the skill a much more reliable cast time and reducing the cooldown a bit. That said, I have been a mesmer long enough to know that Anet never answers our dreams or prayers.

I’ll grant you that it’s amazing.

On the odd occasion I’ll get the block proc before I can line daze, however if you want it and spam it you should get it. That said, a 4k riposte + block becomes a toss up vs a 4k halting strike + daze IF you interrupt. CS is the only thing that makes it sweeter, granting those stun procs. The real trouble with sword 4 is the delay between block and riposte. The community has states this many times.

The real problem people have with OH sword is the single target nature of the thing. Don’t get me wrong, it’s an amazing weapon (I use it). But let’s face it, AoE reigns supreme in this game, and we have stronger options to make that happen. People find it hard to fit it into their build with the needs Mesmer demands.

Plus cc’ing groups of people with temporal curtain or magic bullet has more skirmish impact than a single 1 second daze will ever apply.

Another problem is people would use OH sword if the mesmer had some kitten mobility, but many people are forced into offhand just to move around faster than a snail’s pace.

I also want to add that in a small scale battle, your iduelist with sharpened images will net you more damage than iswordsman thanks to more bleed procs than a phantasm who procs a single bleed stack.

OH sword just needs more utility, and quite honest we need more phantasms who cleave, iduelist’s bullet barrage should pierce and iswordsman should honestly hit 2 additional nearby targets with his attack.

Zenith, the daze is a line daze, so it is aoe, it hits up to 5 targets, just an fyi. Further more, when you build around mainhand sword and blink the mobility issues become negligible within the small size of the arenas in pvp.

On another note Ross, I find it hard to justify building for aoe when the mesmer is just so bloody kitten at it…

Tried it, sword off hand is great at making fights I would have won with other weapon sets go even faster but made fights that was close into losing fights for me. At the end of the day extra stealth from torch is just too much to give up.
In pvp I haven’t tried it, mostly I can’t see myself give up range for anything.

It’s casting time is kitten, the radius around the bolt is very buggy and small so most of the time it comes down to single target, the range is kinda lackluster but not the biggest problem and it’s a projectile so it can be reflected.

If people find this skill good I suggest them to take a look at Headshot.
Now this is a skill that’s made to interrupt skills.

Now do not remind me of headshot, almost the only reason I want a mainhand pistol is to see aanet give us a version of a skill like that..

Zarathustra.1458:

Zenith, the daze is a line daze, so it is aoe, it hits up to 5 targets, just an fyi. Further more, when you build around mainhand sword and blink the mobility issues become negligible within the small size of the arenas in pvp.

On another note Ross, I find it hard to justify building for aoe when the mesmer is just so bloody kitten at it…

Line =/= aoe. It pierces, but for example you can’t compare a rapid fire with piercing shots to a meteor shower. One will cover more area than the other and if you want reliable interruption of a group, the circle is far more likely to catch people unless you’re telling me your opponents have a way of positioning themselves in a line behind each other often.

The sword offhand is purely a single target skill.

And the thing is unlike warrior offhand sword riposte or ranger counterattack on greatsword, iot doesn’t block projectiles while channeled so if someone is sniping you from range your sword offhand will just trigger a clone on first hit and proceed to be useless.

I’d love #4.1 and #4.2 gaining 1200 range and #4.2 having the casttime lowered. This might just be enough to pimp it up a bit.

Regarding the clone, I always thought it was a bit weird since it is the only weapon set which offers you three skills which generate illusions. I wouldn’t mind if the clone was replaced by a stun or something else. Then again, I really don’t mind the clone either.

Thing is, they wanted to make clones a resource but they ended up useless kittenters ( what an absurd censor, now zhatters needs to be spelled like that because otherwise it’s profanity) besides distortion and mind wrack are all underwhelming, and the clones themselves are worthless.

Xaylin.1860:

I’d love #4.1 and #4.2 gaining 1200 range and #4.2 having the casttime lowered. This might just be enough to pimp it up a bit.

Regarding the clone, I always thought it was a bit weird since it is the only weapon set which offers you three skills which generate illusions. I wouldn’t mind if the clone was replaced by a stun or something else. Then again, I really don’t mind the clone either.

Actually I hada similar idea.
Change #4 so that the block doesn’t make a clone but stun the target for ~1 second (1.2k range ofc! ). Then I would spam it less for the daze and actually start trying to use it for the “block” part.. I don’t really care if they lower the dmg a bit, 1 sec stun (and the interrupt trigger for mights, CI, Halting Strike, etc.) is a lot more useful for me than.. 1-2k dmg they can take away with a little nerf?
I mean just look at the scepter, the second-in-chain block skill.. Who wanna use the line Blind instead of 5 stacks of torment and more direct dmg? (Even if none cares about the dmg part, it’s higher than the blind’s ^^ ) I can imagine situations where it’s good, but..

Usualy for defensive purposes, or perhaps on the opening of an engagement, I might do,

OH sword 4 to Block, riposte is 3-4k, spawn clone, f3 for diversion/CS 1s stun on daze. If that rupts the halting strike proc is another 3-4k. So I don’t feel the riposte/clone summon is usless as it gives me a variety of options knowing that clone will spawn (distortion too).

As for the aoe line daze, it’s important to have 5 targets to ensure it hits THE target. Otherwise it’d get eaten. It is best on ressing players as it will hit those surrounding the downed player, assuming your not targeting far off to one side or some such. Making it an instant ground targeted effect ala MoD would be a huge quality of life improvement however. Just clean it up and do it, why not?

As for scepter 2 blind, I’ll use it, but only if the target is out of reach/not focusing me, or I’ve trained myself to fire it in the last moment before the channel ends no matter what. That way I’m always getting SOME effect.

Bonus bit o’info: Players are aware, and watch for scepter 2 block animation. They’re woefully unaware of OH sword block animation. They look so very different, and scepter is more widely used and feared than OH sword (not to say OH sword shouldnt be feared. They would if they encounters it more).

This would make it more responsive and could lead to it being a true replacement for MoD.

This is an interesting discussion that I’ll get back to reading later, but THIS statement right here is why I think you’re getting a bit ahead of yourself in terms of wanting to buff the interrupt side of this skill. Sword 4 is NOT supposed to be our on-demand instant AOE interrupt. This is why we have MoD, and that shouldn’t exactly be infringed upon imho.

OH Sword is extremely underrated. The block’s attack dmg is extremely high. Yes, there’s issues with people dodging it, but that’s a discussion on our two blocks in general… Anyway, the CD is very low and it interrupts in a line. I actually think OH Sword is in a perfect state. Maybe some of the opinions above will change my mind though. Busy rekting people right now though.

I would love to see iSwordsman with a 3 target AoE cleave. Can be a small radius, but it’d be awesome all the same : D

To be honest, I believe that mesmer needs something akin to thieves headshot skill. At this point I lack faith in anet giving us a mainhand pistol which would be the perfect place for such a skill, hence why I would like to see some changes to the offhand sword. And yes Ross, a cleave on Iswordsman would be an awesome improvement…

Furthermore, I do not think MoD should be our go to interrupt. It should be our massively useful emergency interrupt, hence why it can be used at any time.

I’d like to see them drop the straight line for Counter Blade and make it work like a bounce between targets. Change it from 5 targets to 2 and have it be affected by Illusionary Elasticity.

Been running sword/sword for about a month now. I love it mostly for WvW roaming because it tends to be a nice block vs stealthed thieves. It’s also great for shatter because you can effectively get three clones from the weapon set, rather than two.

My biggest issue with it is, as stated somewhere above, the delay between the block and the summoning of the clone. If that was a bit more fluid, I would like it even more.

At the end of the day, I believe sword/pistol is better, but I chose sword/sword not for being better, but for looking friggin awesome dual wielding SAB swords. Plus, people respect you more when you can pull off sword/sword while looking like a total baller. Just sayin.

phokus.8934:

I’d like to see them drop the straight line for Counter Blade and make it work like a bounce between targets. Change it from 5 targets to 2 and have it be affected by Illusionary Elasticity.

You mean you want magic bullet on your sword?

Just reduce the casting time to 1/4 second and reduce the ‘’casting time’’ to spawn the clone + damage after a block by 1/4th of a second and it’s fine. The skill is way too slow for it’s purpose. Currently you can block, take 6k damage and still fail to land your damage of the block. I don’t see why I would ever wait for my damage of the block to occur.

To function like Magic Bullet, yes. It falls in line with the rest of our skills that bounce between targets and are extended with Illusionary Elasticity.

The whole daze 5 targets in a straight line is pretty pathetic and so completely situational that at most, you’ll get 2 targets.

phokus.8934:

To function like Magic Bullet, yes. It falls in line with the rest of our skills that bounce between targets and are extended with Illusionary Elasticity.

The whole daze 5 targets in a straight line is pretty pathetic and so completely situational that at most, you’ll get 2 targets.

Yes I agree but it would still not fix the problem it is facing. That would rather just be a buff to make up for what the skill is lacking.

phokus.8934:

To function like Magic Bullet, yes. It falls in line with the rest of our skills that bounce between targets and are extended with Illusionary Elasticity.

The whole daze 5 targets in a straight line is pretty pathetic and so completely situational that at most, you’ll get 2 targets.

There’s nothing worse than a projectile that can’t reach its target because it can’t hit more than one target. Magic Bullet is amazing but even it suffers from this from time to time.

We used to have our own headshot. It was called Mind Stab from the greatsword in beta (it would daze), but just like necro and ranger, mesmers got heavy nerfs in late beta close to release and what you see right now is the remnants of the beta nerfs. The classes with heavy nerfs by close to the end of closed beta before release are, to no one’s surprise, the same classes that have been kitten ever since the game’s release.

Zenith.7301:

We used to have our own headshot. It was called Mind Stab from the greatsword in beta (it would daze), but just like necro and ranger, mesmers got heavy nerfs in late beta close to release and what you see right now is the remnants of the beta nerfs. The classes with heavy nerfs by close to the end of closed beta before release are, to no one’s surprise, the same classes that have been kitten ever since the game’s release.

I just ran and grabbed my tiny violin. Did I make it back in time?

For some reason they just stopped doing large profession changes back then.
Edit: exception is of course new GM taits.

Actually, giving that back would go a long way towards actually making mesmer lockdown a viable contender in the meta vs shatter. Consider the synergy of a 9 second aoe daze with halting strikes and the vulnerability stacking along side a 24 second cooldown knockback with iZerker and it’s cripple. I would wager such a setup would have me running 6/2/6 rather than the standard 4/4/6, and would also probably see me using Power Block inspite of it’s weaknesses. I mean let’s be honest, the major detracting factor to PB is the probability of doing nothing against a thief on a limited resource, namely interrupts, give us a reliable short cooldown interrupt and then that would change.

Zarathustra.1458:

I would wager such a setup would have me running 6/2/6 rather than the standard 4/4/6, and would also probably see me using Power Block inspite of it’s weaknesses.

Naw, you’d be better off using traits for Shattered Concentration and Greatsword Training.

Because daze on Mind Stab would be pretty absurdly powerful and the main thing you’d want is to be able to use it more frequently, and rip stability so you can actually get it through.

(That’s not gonna happen without a Halting Strike nerf (like an ICD), though. And I think I’d much rather they just keep Halting Strike. It’s a good, and fun, and worthwhile trait.)

Why would it be all that more powerful? It would still be somewhat painful to use what with the aoe circle. Furthermore, It would not be reason to nerf to Halting strike.

I guess my agenda is to simply add another short cooldown daze somewhere. I find it absurd that a class with so many interrupt traits has arguably the longest cooldowns on interrupts. I also have always missed the gw1 mesmer proactive mitigation of damage, whereas in contrast, in Gw2 we seem to be saving the interrupts for specific skill counters (ie heals) which changes the focus of the play style. Interrupting rather than being the core of the build and letting us reliably use our procs tends towards being a spice adding on top while we rely on a random concoction of other effects to actually do the damage for the build. Now, should we get a utility with kitten cast time which inflicts a 0.25 daze on a 5 second cooldown, then we would have the basis for a built that relies on HS for damage. That of course would never happen, hence why I think something needs to be added somewhere else.

On another note, I actually am fairly certain that if we had an increased frequency of interrupts we would actually see the lockdown build become a contender for high level pvp, as it would enable a refocusing of our use of interrupts as a form of sustainable pressure through HS and CI. This would have the potential to be absurdly strong against less skilled players, but it would not necessarily be over powered as it would still function as a build reliant on a skill level cap that most players could never achieve to turn it into such an unbalanced build.

Mesmers are balanced around having one potential interrupt skill per weapon set. If you added a Daze, Stun or whatever CC to one weapon it might indeed cause balance issues or result in nerfs somewhere else.

The other thing is I believe that GS is one of our weapons which doesn’t really need a buff. I would appretiate better access to CC but I’d rather see improvements to existing skills (e.g. Chaos Storm or Counter Blade). ANet could also always consider tweaking the cooldown of F3 since this affects all Mesmers and therefore should be easier to balance.

Xaylin.1860:

Mesmers are balanced around having one potential interrupt skill per weapon set. If you added a Daze, Stun or whatever CC to one weapon it might indeed cause balance issues or result in nerfs somewhere else.

The other thing is I believe that GS is one of our weapons which doesn’t really need a buff. I would appretiate better access to CC but I’d rather see improvements to existing skills (e.g. Chaos Storm or Counter Blade). ANet could also always consider tweaking the cooldown of F3 since this affects all Mesmers and therefore should be easier to balance.

Ok, so next to a hammer warrior or guardian we have longer cd interrupts that are not even hard cc unless rng stuns from confounding suggestions.

We have no blast finishers, no boon provision to the group, long cd on boon/condi removal for the group, few forms of aoe cc and little sustained damage.

So, it would be too much to at least compensate by giving us more CC than other classes, when we should have been the CC class instead of engineer or warrior?

P.S. Mindstab on greatsword is a joke. At the rate boons are farted out by most classes, removing 1 boon on a skill that does barely the same damage as an autoattack isn’t much.

Zenith.7301:

P.S. Mindstab on greatsword is a joke. At the rate boons are farted out by most classes, removing 1 boon on a skill that does barely the same damage as an autoattack isn’t much.

Up it to two boons, then. Problem solved.

It’s still a pretty good skill in a pretty good weapon set (ever since they improved the radius).

considering how many of our traits proc interrupt effects, should we not have a greater access to them ?

I mean, waistrel’s punishment. What the hell kind of crap is that. When someone is not using a skill, 5% damage bonus.

Meanwhile an ele does 5% more damage to burning targets, a warrior does % more damage against bleeding targets. Do you see the difference in the uptime of the bonuses?

Mesmer and necromancers easily have the most worthless minor traits, with ranger closely following behind (opening strike is just bad, it should reset on kill/target switch) and their beastmastery traitline.

Zenith.7301:

…

It doesn’t matter what other classes got if the Mesmer is balanced differently. The only reason you could put a higher amount of CC on a weapon is because Guardians and Warriors don’t really have interrupt traits. Warriors might have Disctracting Strikes but you won’t use it with Hammer.

It’s not like I wouldn’t like better access to CC but there is no point in buffing Mesmers if it’s unblanaced and will lead to nerfs elsewhere.

The boon thing is a cross-class issue and not exclusive to Mesmers.

Xaylin.1860:

Zenith.7301:

…

It doesn’t matter what other classes got if the Mesmer is balanced differently. The only reason you could put a higher amount of CC on a weapon is because Guardians and Warriors don’t really have interrupt traits. Warriors might have Disctracting Strikes but you won’t use it with Hammer.

It’s not like I wouldn’t like better access to CC but there is no point in buffing Mesmers if it’s unblanaced and will lead to nerfs elsewhere.

The boon thing is a cross-class issue and not exclusive to Mesmers.

Not exclusive to mesmer? Virtually only the necromancer is the only other class without ample access to boons, and even the necromancer can somewhat reliably stack might. Both the necromancer and mesmer are unique in the fact they have a total lack of blast finishers and valuable fields (fire/water/smoke).

You’re talking as if these interrupt traits are widely used by mesmers, when most of them are of niche use in niche builds. Certainly not much presence of them in spvp tournaments, nor in Guild vs Guild or zerg wvw play, and virtually NO USE WHATSOEVER in PvE.

I’m sorry but I don’t want my class solely balanced around what it does in duels and small 2v2/3v3. That’s too small a part of the entire game to keep a class tied around.

Both engineers and thieves are great duelists and yet their class design isn’t tied to that fact, they’re effective if not optimal in all game formats.

I’m talking about boon application being way more frequent than boon removal…

Xaylin.1860:

I’m talking about boon application being way more frequent than boon removal…

And it will stay that way, because some classes like the ele are BALANCED around these boons. You introduce more boon removal, you completely push them out. Ele builds without boons simply do not work, it’s no miracle that most eles have a large amount of their traits in arcana and water.

What I’m saying is that given the pitiful toolkit we have to offer a group, being the best CC class as wer were designed in GW1 should not have been changed with the warrior and engineer and guardian displacing the mesmer.