Guild Wars 2

I know that when in comes to doing PvE and dungeons in gw2, straight up power is the way to go. However, I have found that I really dislike using the GS and that Sword/Focus is too broken to be effective. Additionally, when doing WvW/sPvP, I really like using the staff. Are there any decent builds for dungeons/pve for the staff that won’t immediately brand me a noob?

Elitests will never accept the staff. It’s a good tool if you use it correctly for kiting enemies but since it’s not “meta” they wont care about your build. I just recommend avoiding those people. I use sword/pistol and a staff but I carry a scepter and greatsword as well. All are good in the right situation if used correctly.

That is just super disappointing. I will try your setup-what build are you using?

I’ve used Sword/Pistol + Staff for a long time. It’s possible to be used against things like Lupicus effectively, but it’s still inferior to Sword/Focus + Greatsword in terms of raw dps. Of course, since I go PUG’ing, it’s good if I can play support that keeps everyone alive while reducing incoming damage (without using Protection and Aegis.<)

Staff won’t ever be “good”, as it is very low dps with the auto attack. The phantasm is good, though. If you throw down the warlock and switch to sword/pistol, you’ll be doing reliable damage at least. Run the 6/6/0/0/2 build and trait for full damage and cooldowns. Use mantras on your bar (for the sake of empowering mantras). Use full zerker gear. Avoid staff autoattack as much as possible.

It’s signicantly worse than the meta builds, but better than anything else you can do.

I used the staff for my condi hybrid build, but other than being fun to play, it isn’t actually that good.

The staff is one of those weapons that falls into the “good phantasm, bad weapon” category, much like the GS.

Elitests will never accept the staff. It’s a good tool if you use it correctly for kiting enemies but since it’s not “meta” they wont care about your build. I just recommend avoiding those people. I use sword/pistol and a staff but I carry a scepter and greatsword as well. All are good in the right situation if used correctly.

Why are you taking a random jab at “elitests” just because the OP asked an innocent question?

I’ve used Sword/Pistol + Staff for a long time. It’s possible to be used against things like Lupicus effectively,

No, it isn’t.

I’m not even going to bother elaborating because it takes five seconds fighting the guy to realise they aren’t.

but it’s still inferior to Sword/Focus + Greatsword in terms of raw dps.

Incorrect. Sw/F + GS have phantasms with average damage, staff + sw/p has some of the hardest hitting phantasms in the game. Greatsword isn’t a high DPS weapon either.

Of course, since I go PUG’ing, it’s good if I can play support that keeps everyone alive while reducing incoming damage (without using Protection and Aegis.<)

Not sure how staff helps support the team when you have much better resources at your disposal.

The staff is one of those weapons that falls into the “good phantasm, bad weapon” category, much like the GS.

GS does not fall in to this category. The DPS of the phantasm is about 33% worse than swordsman, and completely out of the league of the warlock.

I love how your post kind of just trash talks everyone without actually posting anything useful.

Regardless, what works for specific people is nothing that you can say is wrong. Sure, it’s not the best, but that doesn’t make it wrong (it can, however, still be bad).

Using Staff on Lupi allows me to avoid the projectiles if I accidentally roll twice too soon. This isn’t very useful if we’re meleeing, but after having played Arah P123 daily for a few months (not recently, however, since everyone does melee), it is useful to be able to be flexible.

I’ll go more into my point but I’m busy right now.

Using Staff on Lupi allows me to avoid the projectiles if I accidentally roll twice too soon.

blurred frenzy/energy sigils/distortion/feedback

This isn’t very useful if we’re meleeing,

Which you should be doing, because — no joke — ranging Lupicus is actually hard mode because it makes him unpredictable and lets him use his more deadlier skills.

it is useful to be able to be flexible.

Feedback, stability mantra. You can now break out of two bubbles if they spawn on you and you can reflect spray and projectiles. Your main hand sword allows you to evade heavy burst damage, your focus allows you to apply swiftness so you can move in quickly after AOE life drain, warden allows you to reflect spray if feedback isn’t up. That covers you for basically the entire fight – very flexible.

I’ve probably spent more time practicing Lupicus and pushing for fast kills than you have doing entire Arah paths – so I feel like I know what I’m talking about when I say staff isn’t a good choice.

I think iWarlock is good when the target has truck-load of conditions.

I tried staff on a shatter build once with traited cooldown. It was fun having clones every few second from Phase Retreat. But then I realised Mirror Blade does the same thing and a second faster and the reduce cooldown trait is in the Domination tree. So I decided to use GS as my main weapon these days.

That said, I would LOVE to incorporate staff into my general playstyle. I may experiement a 4/0/4/0/6 weird build later. I do not know what is the normal recharge rate on endurance but with vigor I counted that it was roughly 5 seconds or so. So I suppose I do try without Deceptive Evasion for a change and see how it works.

hendo.1940:

GS does not fall in to this category. The DPS of the phantasm is about 33% worse than swordsman, and completely out of the league of the warlock.

Well, it is good to know you don’t know much about mesmer phantasms.

The berserker does damage in an AoE, hitting multiple enemies. The swordsman and warlock do not.
The berserker maintains distance after attacking, keeping it out of danger and letting it live longer. The swordsman stays in close range, and dies quickly. The warlock does stay at range.
The berserker’s damage is front loaded and quick to activate. The damage of other phantasms is more likely to be interrupted, or needs to stay alive longer to build up.
The berserker and warlock have the same attack rate. The warlock will only outdamage the berserker if you use phantasmal haste with plenty of conditions, or if the enemy is small and can’t take all hits of the berserkers spin.

Combine all this together, and you get a really good phantasm.

Honestly? I might be completely wrong here, its just my experience because I’m not an expert theory crafter or anything but I don’t see staff being a good main weapon for a dungeon. You could maybe do a boon sharing build but I don’t know how useful that will be really. As a backup? sure. This is not optimal but I use it sometimes for that reason and if I have on swap anyway I’ll pull it out at start of a fight for the warlock and Chaos Storm and then switch to sword/focus. In a dungeon your likely stacking quite a bit an I think you should try to be melee. With the skills we have you can survive pretty well. Staff takes a while to ramp up and as far as I know doesn’t have the reflects focus dose which is a major reason people take mesmers into dungeons. If I have to range I favour it over greatsword if I can keep the phantasms alive for the fight and the party is applying lots of different conditions (which is fairly common anyway).

I tried condi build with staff in PvE when I started the game because I really liked the idea.

Trust me – I suffered a lot with it: it took ages to kill anything, I couldn’t tag anyone in zergs and I contributed next to nothing in dungeons. Finally I gave up, rerolled a GS/Sw+F phantasm build and my life suddenly changed to better.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Well, it is good to know you don’t know much about mesmer phantasms.

Right, lets see.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The berserker does damage in an AoE, hitting multiple enemies. The swordsman and warlock do not.

True, the zerker does aoe damage. This is a distinct advantage when it matters, and distinctly useless when it doesn’t.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The berserker maintains distance after attacking, keeping it out of danger and letting it live longer. The swordsman stays in close range, and dies quickly. The warlock does stay at range.

This is false. The swordsman leaps back out of range during the course of its attack. It attempts to maintain that ranged distance while idle. The zerker will also attempt to do this, but to a lesser extent.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The berserker’s damage is front loaded and quick to activate. The damage of other phantasms is more likely to be interrupted, or needs to stay alive longer to build up.

What? The only phantasms that this actually applies to are the iWarden and iDuelist, and hardly even to the iDuelist. You don’t use the iWarden primarily for dps anyway, you use it for the protective bubble. The zerker’s damage is easily stoppable because it’s a melee phantasm. It can even be killed during its spin. The iSwordsman actually evades during the attack animation.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The berserker and warlock have the same attack rate. The warlock will only outdamage the berserker if you use phantasmal haste with plenty of conditions, or if the enemy is small and can’t take all hits of the berserkers spin.

On most mobs, the warlock and the berserker actually do incredibly similar damage…assuming no conditions whatsoever. However, once conditions start getting applied, the iWarlock rapidly outdamages the berserker. Consider a normal party. You’ll have vuln, bleed, burn, cripple, and weakness. Many parties will also apply poison, and with mesmer staff you’ll also get confusion from the ethereal field. That’s 7 conditions, so in a normal party your iWarlock will be doing 70% increased damage, blowing the iZerker out of the water.

The one truly useful characteristic of the iZerker is that it applies cripple. This gives it a use when you’re attempting to kite something nasty, along with greatsword offering better sustained ranged dps than the staff. However, the situations where this is necessary are rather limited.

hendo.1940:

Using Staff on Lupi allows me to avoid the projectiles if I accidentally roll twice too soon.

blurred frenzy/energy sigils/distortion/feedback

This isn’t very useful if we’re meleeing,

Which you should be doing, because — no joke — ranging Lupicus is actually hard mode because it makes him unpredictable and lets him use his more deadlier skills.

it is useful to be able to be flexible.

Feedback, stability mantra. You can now break out of two bubbles if they spawn on you and you can reflect spray and projectiles. Your main hand sword allows you to evade heavy burst damage, your focus allows you to apply swiftness so you can move in quickly after AOE life drain, warden allows you to reflect spray if feedback isn’t up. That covers you for basically the entire fight – very flexible.

I’ve probably spent more time practicing Lupicus and pushing for fast kills than you have doing entire Arah paths – so I feel like I know what I’m talking about when I say staff isn’t a good choice.

All of which is solo “speedrun” plays. I’m not saying that they’re not the better ways to play, but when you PUG as much as I do, you need to be ready to play the full idiot method. If I have to, I can even revert to a 0/4/6/4/0 build that lets me solo Lupicus while ressing teammates. Yes, it’s not fast. Yes, it’s not clean. It gets the job done, and that’s what matters at the end of the day.

I can run Sword/Focus + Greatsword (or Sword/Sword) against Lupicus and do great, I know. I can use Distortion against Lupicus, yes. But when my teammates don’t dodge grubs and try to melee, then it’s better to just range in P1. When my teammates don’t know how to use reflects or sit in them in P2, it’s better to use Feedback when I can and then play safe when I can’t Feedback his barrage. In P3, if that one guy decides he wants to not sit under Lupicus, then I will sit under Lupicus until it’s not safe and range him when I have no escapes readily available. In fact, this is where Staff is ABSOLUTELY perfect. If you’re stuck in a bubble, you can use Phase Retreat to get out and you’re also out of range of another bubble attack.

You can keep refuting me all you want, but that doesn’t prove anything. From the beginning, I’ve been stating that it’s not the BEST way to play, but it’s a possible way (in regards to Lupicus). And yes, I do know that Warlock has one of the highest single target damage skills in the game. I’ve had 3 of them hitting 4k per on Shadow Behemoth which is a level 16-ish area. That was a long time ago, and I don’t think it’s possible to get numbers that large anymore.

Pyroathiest.4168:

This is false. The swordsman leaps back out of range during the course of its attack. It attempts to maintain that ranged distance while idle. The zerker will also attempt to do this, but to a lesser extent.

The swordsman does a short hop backward after its initial attack, but always tries to stay within range of the enemy. Because of this, the swordsman is more likely to die than the zerker. Unless this was changed very recently, the zerker will stay put after the whirling attack, only pursuing the enemy when they are doing the attack again.

Pyroathiest.4168:

What? The only phantasms that this actually applies to are the iWarden and iDuelist, and hardly even to the iDuelist. You don’t use the iWarden primarily for dps anyway, you use it for the protective bubble. The zerker’s damage is easily stoppable because it’s a melee phantasm. It can even be killed during its spin. The iSwordsman actually evades during the attack animation.

Not quite. For other phantasms to outdamage the zerker, they have to stay alive long enough for their increased attack rates to matter. In many circumstances, the phantasms end up dying anyway, causing the zerker to be the superior damage option due to its quick AoE burst.

Pyroathiest.4168:

On most mobs, the warlock and the berserker actually do incredibly similar damage…assuming no conditions whatsoever. However, once conditions start getting applied, the iWarlock rapidly outdamages the berserker. Consider a normal party. You’ll have vuln, bleed, burn, cripple, and weakness. Many parties will also apply poison, and with mesmer staff you’ll also get confusion from the ethereal field. That’s 7 conditions, so in a normal party your iWarlock will be doing 70% increased damage, blowing the iZerker out of the water.

Following the damage tooltips, the zerker does 4 × 196 damage per swing, with the warlock doing 438 damager per bolt. You can dice these numbers up how you like, but the interesting thing is when they collide:

3 hits from zerker is 588 damage, which is roughly equivalent to warlock’s damage with 3 conditions or so. 4 hits is 784 damage, which is equivalent to warlock with 8 conditions on the target.

The tooltips could be wrong, though. But, like I said: Good phantasm, bad weapon. The biggest drawback with the berserker is that you have to use GS to have it.

Staff is good with carrion build

Zach.3264:

Staff is good with carrion build

Fraid not. If you’re using carrion on mesmer in any build whatsoever, you’ve made a serious mistake.

The berserker does damage in an AoE, hitting multiple enemies. The swordsman and warlock do not …

Please tell us about all those times where area of effect damage is relevant in dungeons which can’t just be achieved by main hand sword cleave.

All of which is solo “speedrun” plays. I’m not saying that they’re not the better ways to play, but when you PUG as much as I do, you need to be ready to play the full idiot method.

No, they’re not just solo speedrun plays. And I pug all of the time. Almost every single solo tactic is perfectly applicable to pug runs.

I can even revert to a 0/4/6/4/0 build that lets me solo Lupicus while ressing teammates.

I can run 0/0/0/0/0 and res a team mate while soloing Lupicus. I’ve had one guildie get a friend killed so that he can try a medic’s feedback solo too. That does remind me actually – a couple of days ago, me and a guildie took someone to Arah, and when they were in defeated state I basically attacked Lupicus, dodged the major attacks and they just sat behind him and ressed them (+ dodging when necessary). You don’t need inefficient builds to achieve that.

But when my teammates don’t dodge grubs and try to melee, then it’s better to just range in P1.

Literally just sit behind him and cast phantasms and attack. That way if he switches aggro to kick you have time to dodge.

When my teammates don’t know how to use reflects or sit in them in P2, it’s better to use Feedback when I can and then play safe when I can’t Feedback his barrage.

You play safe by sitting under him meleeing and dodging. You do realise his autoattack projectile doesn’t hit you in melee right? It’s safer.

In P3, if that one guy decides he wants to not sit under Lupicus, then I will sit under Lupicus until it’s not safe and range him when I have no escapes readily available.

If someone is going to be stubborn and not stay under him, just let him chase them, repeatedly bubble them and eat the floor. They’re being completely counterproductive by ranging. For example, a competent player can burst Lupicus out of phase 2 and in to phase 3 in a minute flat. If he’s running around porting to people, it takes a lot longer.

If you’re stuck in a bubble, you can use Phase Retreat to get out and you’re also out of range of another bubble attack.

stability mantra/distortion/blurred frenzy/dodging inside bubble/off hand sword block

He holds position while casting necrid trap so you can get back in to melee range too.

You can keep refuting me all you want, but that doesn’t prove anything. From the beginning, I’ve been stating that it’s not the BEST way to play, but it’s a possible way (in regards to Lupicus).

It’s also possible to circle kite him around the room with scepter/torch but I’m not going to say “guys, this is viable” — when it is — but it’s extremely inefficient and would be wrong of me to tell someone.

Unfortunately, staff is not very viable in a PvE setting. Same with a shatter build, at least for dungeons. I still use shatter when I’m open world roaming, because I do find it fun. It’s just too bad it’s not viable in a dungeon setting anymore. To run dungeons as a mesmer, you pretty much have to use sw/sw and sw/f, switching to GS if you need ranged.

If you’re worried about being branded a noob, then yeah, there aren’t any builds that I know of. The thing is, I’m a pure staff in pve player. I do it because it fits my playstyle and I have fun with it, and screw what anyone else thinks. I currently run a 4/0/6/0/4 build that uses dire stats and runes of the undead, so I add about 17% of my toughness as condition damage and confusion-shatter often. The build has insane survivability and I can reliably distract dungeon bosses while my teammates rez. So while my dps is low, I still serve a useful purpose as long as they aren’t trying to speed run.

In my experience, GW2 is a lot about playstyle. When I tried using GS or Sw/F or any of the other weapon sets, I did worse. So this is what I go with.

kitten osus.1348:

That is just super disappointing. I will try your setup-what build are you using?

My staff isnt my main weapon, it’s just a secondary because it’s closer to what my build does than the greatsword and it has a little more utility. You’d be better getting an actual condition build with dire or carrion gear as theres much better traits and trait lines to take for using the staff as a main weapon instead of my build.

Staff is very fun to use but use it enough and you start to notice how GS simply is better. Not to say staff doesn’t have uses though. But they mostly end when the SPvP match ends.

You may want to read this thread and try the build. This build calls for rabid runes.

Will some think you’re a noob by playing staff? Yes.
Will some straight up kick you? Yes.
Should you be running staff if you’re looking to min/max, or speedrun? No.
Should you get upset if those who want min/max or speedrun kick you? No.
Can you show others that you’re a good player despite using staff? Yes.
Should you play what’s fun for you? Yes.
Should you care if playing staff means others will assume things about you and preclude you from from PvE groups? That’s your call.

Pyroathiest.4168:

Zach.3264:

Staff is good with carrion build

Fraid not. If you’re using carrion on mesmer in any build whatsoever, you’ve made a serious mistake.

I’m curious as to why.

I’ve seen Pyro state this on the Mesmer forums fairly frequently, but while I have a general idea of why it could be a poor choice compared to say, Rabid or something, I’d like to know the breakdown of how it compares.

My gut reaction is that it’s because Vitality doesn’t do much for a Mesmer since it doesn’t apply to Illusions in the same way that Toughness does. Vitality also doesn’t boost Condition Damage in the same way that Toughness does if you’re going down the Toughness Line or using Undead Runes or something similar, (Although Scavenger Runes grant a Condition Damage Boost from Vitality, which might be another option)

I can also see how Precision (Which Carrion lacks) is important for a Condition Mesmer mostly because of the Sharper Images trait in the Dueling line (for Illusion Bleeds).

That all said though, Carrion seems like a decent candidate for a WvW Hybrid build of some sort, since it’s the only main-stat condition damage gear that also offers power. (Rampager could be an alternative too maybe, for much more precision at the cost of health and condition damage)

Is it really that bad of an option?

hendo.1940:

Please tell us about all those times where area of effect damage is relevant in dungeons which can’t just be achieved by main hand sword cleave.

Wow is this a bad deflection. Who said dungeons? Who said not to use sword? Why are we comparing whole weapons now instead of just the phantasms? Is there now suddenly a threshold of damage that counts as “good enough”? Seriously dude, stay on topic.

sirrealist.1360:

You may want to read this thread and try the build. This build calls for rabid runes.

Will some think you’re a noob by playing staff? Yes.
Will some straight up kick you? Yes.
Should you be running staff if you’re looking to min/max, or speedrun? No.
Should you get upset if those who want min/max or speedrun kick you? No.
Can you show others that you’re a good player despite using staff? Yes.
Should you play what’s fun for you? Yes.
Should you care if playing staff means others will assume things about you and preclude you from from PvE groups? That’s your call.

I’d really recommend against this.

You can make a personal choice like “I want to use staff” and have a slightly worse build because of it. But, it’s not the end of the world— your Warlock still wrecks kitten, and sword/sword or sword/focus as a second set will provide lots more DPS. You lose a bit, but it’s not game-changing.

But then this build promotes a second “personal choice” of scepter/focus as an alternate set.

And a third “personal choice” of rabid gear, when mesmer condition damage is not particularly high (we have great condition pressure from torment and confusion, but those are very PvE focused).

Any of these single one of these choices is going to result in a sub-optimal, but not terrible, build in PvE. All three of them together makes a pretty trash build for PvE.

(Note that I personally use staff and rabid+krait in PvP— I love the setup there).

maxinion.8396:

I’d really recommend against this.

You can make a personal choice like “I want to use staff” and have a slightly worse build because of it. But, it’s not the end of the world— your Warlock still wrecks kitten, and sword/sword or sword/focus as a second set will provide lots more DPS. You lose a bit, but it’s not game-changing.

But then this build promotes a second “personal choice” of scepter/focus as an alternate set.

And a third “personal choice” of rabid gear, when mesmer condition damage is not particularly high (we have great condition pressure from torment and confusion, but those are very PvE focused).

Any of these single one of these choices is going to result in a sub-optimal, but not terrible, build in PvE. All three of them together makes a pretty trash build for PvE.

(Note that I personally use staff and rabid+krait in PvP— I love the setup there).

All true. My point was that he asked about PvE staff. My response is basically, try this out. You may not like it for many reasons (DPS, “viability”, perception from others etc.) but it’s worth trying out and making your own decision. He’s asking for options. Ultimately, #1 is having fun. How you achieve that is personal preference. Some people might choose to play a certain way with no regard for DPS and whatnot. I personally don’t feel any responsibility to others to play a certain way. If I want to play (3x) sub-optimal, terrible PvE build, I’ll do it if I want to. However, to go with that is to not misrepresent yourself (don’t join a speedrun group pretending to be maxed).

Sinaya.4201:

Pyroathiest.4168:

Zach.3264:

Staff is good with carrion build

Fraid not. If you’re using carrion on mesmer in any build whatsoever, you’ve made a serious mistake.

I’m curious as to why.

I’ve seen Pyro state this on the Mesmer forums fairly frequently, but while I have a general idea of why it could be a poor choice compared to say, Rabid or something, I’d like to know the breakdown of how it compares.

My gut reaction is that it’s because Vitality doesn’t do much for a Mesmer since it doesn’t apply to Illusions in the same way that Toughness does. Vitality also doesn’t boost Condition Damage in the same way that Toughness does if you’re going down the Toughness Line or using Undead Runes or something similar, (Although Scavenger Runes grant a Condition Damage Boost from Vitality, which might be another option)

I can also see how Precision (Which Carrion lacks) is important for a Condition Mesmer mostly because of the Sharper Images trait in the Dueling line (for Illusion Bleeds).

That all said though, Carrion seems like a decent candidate for a WvW Hybrid build of some sort, since it’s the only main-stat condition damage gear that also offers power. (Rampager could be an alternative too maybe, for much more precision at the cost of health and condition damage)

Is it really that bad of an option?

You’ve actually touched on most of the major points, but I’ll go through them again.

The first and biggest problem is that carrion gear has no precision. Crits are really the lifeblood of most mesmer condition builds, and carrion provides no access to them. Additionally, if you’re going for a hybrid build, crits will be very important on the power side as well, more so than power itself often times, since crit is your access to on-crit sigils, vigor, etc.

Next, carrion gear has vitality instead of toughness. You again got this pretty right. A lot of mesmer stuff scales well with toughness. We’ve got a lot of things that scale with toughness. Illusions scale with toughness of course, and not with vitality. Chaotic transference is 10% toughness to condition damage. Undead runes are another 7% of toughness. Even tuning crystals (and other associated utility foods) scale stronger with toughness than they do with vitality. On top of that, mesmer already has pretty good base health, so stacking that vitality is less of an issue.

If you’re doing a hybrid, you’ll want to do a mix of rabid gear and berserker gear. What this allows you to do is have survivability from the toughness (this would be severely lacking in rampagers gear). It also allows you to boost your crit chance quite high, and that allows you in turn to make effective use of the critical damage you get from the berserker gear and any food/traits. Carrion gear would boost your power more…but you’d lose out on a ton of crit chance, and that severely impinges on your strength of both power damage and condition damage.

Staff is the best weapon on enemies like Lyssa where the Warlock literally crits for f|<ing 25’000~ damage and also superior against dangerious enemies in fotm or simply soloing “do net get close” champs in open world. I rarely use it, but when I do, it makes sense.
The warlock outdamages any phant at 4+ conditions afaik.

To the GS qq and flames: GS became a great weapon if you go for buffshare and use the rune of strength. I would never have used the GS in dungeons but if there are multiple targets the phantasm hits better than the iS or iD and GS 2 + strength + buffshare is awesome. However I only play pugs but for elitism dungeon guilds it’s not the way to go.

I always use a Staff as second weapon in PvE. It has great utility, because

• its auto attack is AoE
• PR clones do not need an obstacle-free LoS to and no successful hit on the target to be summoned, one just has to be in range (this is unique and excellent for kiting purpose, there is nearly no champ that cannot be soloed because of this)
• Staff clones do condition damage too, though random and not continuous but more than any other clone
• PR clones can be used as a shield if one doesn’t move, because they are summoned straight in front of the Mesmer
• PR clones can be used to cd-wise cheaply catch the initial aggro, if one jumps out of the auto attack range without the need to deactivate auto attack or swap weapons
• Staff clones and the iWarlock are range casters, so if there is enough space and they are placed far enough apart, it forces melee mobs to reach them first before killing them, which means another few seconds for anything else
• Chaos Storm can contribute huge benefits to group events (just keep an eye on the fast decrease of Mob HP when confusion stacks 20+ times)

Staff is much slower because of low direct damage and only random condition damage, but it has some other advantages I wouldn’t want to miss in many situations.

This thread lol.

If you really hate melee/swords so much, use a scepter. I think we established a while back that scepter + clone + 2x Swordsmen is still better than GS + 3 Berserkers. Staff isn’t really a DPS thing at all (although it’s great for AFKing world bosses) since the auto is so laughably weak that it pretty much does nothing at all. Switching to staff for any reason is pretty much 10 seconds of total downtime, you’re better off running out of the fight entirely and swapping your weapon if you really need that extra phantasm.

Does every other profession have a identity crisis if they change one weapon for another? People who don’t use the staff because it’s not the best in slot. Who cares, if we all played one build/style it would be the most boring MMO created. It’s getting close as any new build or idea’s are shot down and not deemed worthy for the “uber complicated” dungeons. I feel that everyone is so focused on maximizing damage, that only these two worthy builds can exist! Playing mesmer for a long and only seeing the same 4 builds over a span of two years is getting old….real fast.

This response is based on fun, not 100% performance:

I’d just like to point out that if you want to play staff with some condi damage as well (a few posts up) you should look into rampager, not rabid. The toughness will not help you much (pve) given staff is already a defensive weapon, whereas power is always useful on mesmers.

As for staff itself, I love to use it, but it is annoying that it has a very good phantasm but you have to ‘debuff yourself’ with its auto for the weapon swap cd when you use it. That said, I really don’t think it is bad to carry with you or have in the 2nd slot.

Would a Sw/F + Staff Phantasm build work in dungeons, if staff is only used to maintain 3x iWizards? Using Sw/F primary to attack in melee and keep up reflects, staff iWizards + SoE could output some serious damage.

Something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW8dnsISVaWkGuqB1aGR1QOdxhHJdgERKVHA-TRRDgAJKB7V+9q+DouBAzfAA-e ??

DonGero.2847:

Does every other profession have a identity crisis if they change one weapon for another? People who don’t use the staff because it’s not the best in slot. Who cares, if we all played one build/style it would be the most boring MMO created. It’s getting close as any new build or idea’s are shot down and not deemed worthy for the “uber complicated” dungeons. I feel that everyone is so focused on maximizing damage, that only these two worthy builds can exist! Playing mesmer for a long and only seeing the same 4 builds over a span of two years is getting old….real fast.

As it happens, the post-patch makes people run different builds more than ever before.

The thing is, if the build is more or less a dead weight, why do people even bother optimizing it and calling out for opinions for the best inefficient build?

If people wanna run whatever they wanna run, they can go ahead and run them. But the one getting old is arguing that the inefficient playstyles can be in any way on par with the optimized playstyles.

xallever.1874:

DonGero.2847:

Does every other profession have a identity crisis if they change one weapon for another? People who don’t use the staff because it’s not the best in slot. Who cares, if we all played one build/style it would be the most boring MMO created. It’s getting close as any new build or idea’s are shot down and not deemed worthy for the “uber complicated” dungeons. I feel that everyone is so focused on maximizing damage, that only these two worthy builds can exist! Playing mesmer for a long and only seeing the same 4 builds over a span of two years is getting old….real fast.

As it happens, the post-patch makes people run different builds more than ever before.

The thing is, if the build is more or less a dead weight, why do people even bother optimizing it and calling out for opinions for the best inefficient build?

If people wanna run whatever they wanna run, they can go ahead and run them. But the one getting old is arguing that the inefficient playstyles can be in any way on par with the optimized playstyles.

If someone enjoys a style enough and really wants to stick to it, what’s wrong with them trying to get advice on it? Alternatively, if you pug often, would you prefer a play how they want pug that is or isn’t optimized?

As for the other professions and identity crisis, yes the other professions are in similar situations. Some weapons are significantly worse than others depending on the situation. Bearbow, rifle warriors, flamethrower etc… there are usually some obvious signs/stereotypes of terrible dps for a reason.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

xallever.1874:

DonGero.2847:

Does every other profession have a identity crisis if they change one weapon for another? People who don’t use the staff because it’s not the best in slot. Who cares, if we all played one build/style it would be the most boring MMO created. It’s getting close as any new build or idea’s are shot down and not deemed worthy for the “uber complicated” dungeons. I feel that everyone is so focused on maximizing damage, that only these two worthy builds can exist! Playing mesmer for a long and only seeing the same 4 builds over a span of two years is getting old….real fast.

As it happens, the post-patch makes people run different builds more than ever before.

The thing is, if the build is more or less a dead weight, why do people even bother optimizing it and calling out for opinions for the best inefficient build?

If people wanna run whatever they wanna run, they can go ahead and run them. But the one getting old is arguing that the inefficient playstyles can be in any way on par with the optimized playstyles.

If someone enjoys a style enough and really wants to stick to it, what’s wrong with them trying to get advice on it? Alternatively, if you pug often, would you prefer a play how they want pug that is or isn’t optimized?

As for the other professions and identity crisis, yes the other professions are in similar situations. Some weapons are significantly worse than others depending on the situation. Bearbow, rifle warriors, flamethrower etc… there are usually some obvious signs/stereotypes of terrible dps for a reason.

Nothing “wrong” per se, it just seems kinda pointless. If you don’t start with the viable options, you usually end up with the best of meaningless builds.

Like someone loving the confusion playstyle for PvE and asking for the best way to achieve the highest stacks of confusion possible.

The more you optimize, the further you stray from the best DPS builds. Granted, this is just an extreme example I’m providing.

It just seems kinda contradictory for anyone asking for advice for optimum DPS while at the same time needing it to be on certain weapons like Mes staff or Guard staff.

If you care about DPS at all, then it should be enough as to forego using non-optimal weapons in the first place.

Seras.5702:

Would a Sw/F + Staff Phantasm build work in dungeons, if staff is only used to maintain 3x iWizards? Using Sw/F primary to attack in melee and keep up reflects, staff iWizards + SoE could output some serious damage.

Something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW8dnsISVaWkGuqB1aGR1QOdxhHJdgERKVHA-TRRDgAJKB7V+9q+DouBAzfAA-e ??

I feel like you should use staff 3, switch to sword, and stick with sword for the rest of the battle unless you explicitly need to dis-engage. Once you move to staff, you’re stuck with it for 9 seconds, and you’ll be doing very little damage during that time. Unless you’d be kiting anyway to run away/heal, in which case sword is doing no damage, I think you’re better off with just the auto-attack on sword.

The staff is one of my favorite weapons for Mesmers, honestly. Its damage output may not be high as the class’s other options, but it’s fun as hell to run around with. If you like using it, stick with it! Playing with weapons that frustrate you is only going to sour your experience. :)

maxinion.8396:

Seras.5702:

Would a Sw/F + Staff Phantasm build work in dungeons, if staff is only used to maintain 3x iWizards? Using Sw/F primary to attack in melee and keep up reflects, staff iWizards + SoE could output some serious damage.

Something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW8dnsISVaWkGuqB1aGR1QOdxhHJdgERKVHA-TRRDgAJKB7V+9q+DouBAzfAA-e ??

I feel like you should use staff 3, switch to sword, and stick with sword for the rest of the battle unless you explicitly need to dis-engage. Once you move to staff, you’re stuck with it for 9 seconds, and you’ll be doing very little damage during that time. Unless you’d be kiting anyway to run away/heal, in which case sword is doing no damage, I think you’re better off with just the auto-attack on sword.

So start with staff, iWarlock > Sig of Ether > iWarlock > weapon swap > 1111111 would work nicely. What about using Runes of the Warrior for weapon swap reduction?

Seras.5702:

maxinion.8396:

Seras.5702:

Would a Sw/F + Staff Phantasm build work in dungeons, if staff is only used to maintain 3x iWizards? Using Sw/F primary to attack in melee and keep up reflects, staff iWizards + SoE could output some serious damage.

Something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW8dnsISVaWkGuqB1aGR1QOdxhHJdgERKVHA-TRRDgAJKB7V+9q+DouBAzfAA-e ??

I feel like you should use staff 3, switch to sword, and stick with sword for the rest of the battle unless you explicitly need to dis-engage. Once you move to staff, you’re stuck with it for 9 seconds, and you’ll be doing very little damage during that time. Unless you’d be kiting anyway to run away/heal, in which case sword is doing no damage, I think you’re better off with just the auto-attack on sword.

So start with staff, iWarlock > Sig of Ether > iWarlock > weapon swap > 1111111 would work nicely. What about using Runes of the Warrior for weapon swap reduction?

That would be a very nice option for using staff effectively in PvE, I think. Put out the swordsman or warden when you swap to sword, and you’ll be in great shape for damage (as far as mesmers go, anyway).

Rune of the warrior is probably not worth it. The vitality is… not very good for PvE. I think you’re better off taking the 2 second hit if you’re forced back to staff, but hopefully your warlocks stay up and you don’t have to swap and you’re fine for the whole battle.

I think I have seen this thread before.

I know how it turns out.

Xavi.6591:

I think I have seen this thread before.

I know how it turns out.

Cryptic cynicism. Thanks for your contribution.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhUQNAW8dnsISBa2qGmqB1aIR1QM5pent4Q01lUBA-TRCBwAQ3fQiSQjK/A8AAwp+TKdDWOCAbuIAKM/REAzCA-e

That would boost my phantasms like crazy, give me reflect on focus, reduced glamour cooldown, and iWarlock on 10.75s cooldown. Chaos Sstorm with a little +boon duration food and Sig of Inspiration for a bit of general boon sharing and group support.

How’s that? iWarlock x3 should be easy to keep up. Let them hit like trucks while I bash away with sword.

Seras.5702:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhUQNAW8dnsISBa2qGmqB1aIR1QM5pent4Q01lUBA-TRCBwAQ3fQiSQjK/A8AAwp+TKdDWOCAbuIAKM/REAzCA-e

That would boost my phantasms like crazy, give me reflect on focus, reduced glamour cooldown, and iWarlock on 10.75s cooldown. Chaos Sstorm with a little +boon duration food and Sig of Inspiration for a bit of general boon sharing and group support.

How’s that? iWarlock x3 should be easy to keep up. Let them hit like trucks while I bash away with sword.

Would personally move the 20 in Chaos to Dueling and taking Phantasmal Fury and Blade Training. Those are both such good skills— Phantasmal Fury will really make your Warlocks hit like trucks (and give you 200 more precision and ferocity, which is a big difference in damage). You’ll actually give your phantasms about 30% higher crit chance with this move, which is definitely noticeable. Since you’re usually going to start with double warlock, the cooldown on staff doesn’t matter, so the Chaotic Dampening isn’t worth it imo. But something similar to this is basically what you want.

You can move the 5th point in Inspiration to the 4th in Illusions and take X, Phantasmal Haste, which is usually a little bit better of an investment, but it’s a small difference.

Hope this helps~

Good advice. I was up in the air with Phantasmal Haste vs. Phantasmal Strength. Not being one to crunch numbers I didn’t know which was better. My feeling with PS and Chaotic Dampening was that, having never taken Mesmer into dungeons yet and thus not know phantasm durability, I’d need to front load the damage and pump out new phantasms often. If it’s feasible to maintain phantasms without them dying too often, I can definitely see the merits of the changes you suggested.

I liked having Illusionary Membrane for some added defense in those “o crap” moments, and since sword isn’t doing much for me in this build, figured Blade Training to be a waste. But I guess sword #2 on a 9s cooldown is now my “o crap” button.

Your suggestions: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhUQNAW8dnsISBa2qGmqB1aIR1QOZxhosbaSFokdKB-TRCBwASUCaU5HgHAAO1fSpbo4+DWOCAbuIAKM/REAzCA-e

Another option would be to drop Blade Training and put 2pts in Domination for Signet Mastery. Good for more heals, more iWarlock, and more boon sharing.

If you want to easily survive and solo pve vets and champs try this staff build

Swap Signet of Domination for the skill u need. Do not shatter, let the illusions die and recast them. Gear consequently for condition damage.

Seras.5702:

Good advice. I was up in the air with Phantasmal Haste vs. Phantasmal Strength. Not being one to crunch numbers I didn’t know which was better. My feeling with PS and Chaotic Dampening was that, having never taken Mesmer into dungeons yet and thus not know phantasm durability, I’d need to front load the damage and pump out new phantasms often. If it’s feasible to maintain phantasms without them dying too often, I can definitely see the merits of the changes you suggested.

I liked having Illusionary Membrane for some added defense in those “o crap” moments, and since sword isn’t doing much for me in this build, figured Blade Training to be a waste. But I guess sword #2 on a 9s cooldown is now my “o crap” button.

Your suggestions: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhUQNAW8dnsISBa2qGmqB1aIR1QOZxhosbaSFokdKB-TRCBwASUCaU5HgHAAO1fSpbo4+DWOCAbuIAKM/REAzCA-e

Another option would be to drop Blade Training and put 2pts in Domination for Signet Mastery. Good for more heals, more iWarlock, and more boon sharing.

Phantasms generally don’t get killed in dungeons (because they don’t take aggro) unless there’s a lot of very strong AOE being thrown around. Phantasms actually have a ton of health and can be renewed very quickly, and a lot of bosses have the same 5-target cap on their AOEs as most player skills, so stuff like Alpha’s spells, etc. won’t hit them. They’re also straight-up invulnerable to certain attacks for some reason, like Lupicus’s melee swipe in phase 2, so they’re pretty easy to maintain as long as you’re able to recast one every 10 seconds or so.