Guild Wars 2

What would you guys and Gals think if we were given the option to have some abilities on weapons to give us other Stealth options?

Having run with Torch, Decoy and Mass Invis in my Condition build i am LOVING it. It makes it so much more confusing for people with these stealth options. However i do think that this sort of gameplay the way it was MEANT to be -IE confusing people and having them attack clones and such would be more suited to having Stealth options on other weapons as well.

Because, lets face it without stealth you will be found out from the clones ALOT but that added stealth makes it a little more of a challenge, now i am not saying we should have the Overpowered Perma stealth that Thieves have but i think it would suit the class alot more if a few more of the weapons had that option

Maybe add a 2-3second stealth after using Phase Retreat or having Mirror Blade (Greatsword #2) put us into stealth for again 2-3 seconds after using it, keep the clones that are created but just add that little bit extra.

It just seems like the class isnt the way it was meant to be (confusing) without the stealth options and just think every build could benefit from this sort of change.

What do you guys think?

Maybe add a 2-3second stealth after using Phase Retreat

That would be extremely OP…Phase Retreat, when double traited, got about 5-6s cd, so this 1 skill alone would grant 50% stealth uptime without even taking PU.

Mirror Blade is also spammable in a similar manner.

We are no thieves. We can’t spam stealth like them and we aren’t supposed to. Actually i think, that thief stealth is fine, it’s stealth combos that need to be toned down (just make stealth from combos non-stackable like chaos armor).

Our stealth skills are on quite high cds. We got clones to confuse enemies so we are supposed to use our stealth as a timed target drop once the opponent manages to find and hardpress us.

Phase retreat? Mirror blade? Wow, that would be crazily overpowered.

I think it is fine as it is.

Ok decoy cooldown is a pain for non-shatter builds, and I would like to see an underwater version of veil.
But our stealth is not like thief stealth – the illusions add an extra element of confusion, so any further stealth skills need to be 1. on high cooldown and 2. on a limited number of weapons.

Maybe when we get alternative #1 to #5 skills in a future update/expansion, we could have some more to choose from.

Maybe if you had to make a compromise between the maximum number of illusions, and stealth/other mechanics so we could specialise, then I would support more options.

Iavra.8510:

Maybe add a 2-3second stealth after using Phase Retreat

That would be extremely OP…Phase Retreat, when double traited, got about 5-6s cd, so this 1 skill alone would grant 50% stealth uptime without even taking PU.

Mirror Blade is also spammable in a similar manner.

We are no thieves. We can’t spam stealth like them and we aren’t supposed to. Actually i think, that thief stealth is fine, it’s stealth combos that need to be toned down (just make stealth from combos non-stackable like chaos armor).

Our stealth skills are on quite high cds. We got clones to confuse enemies so we are supposed to use our stealth as a timed target drop once the opponent manages to find and hardpress us.

Okay, maybe like a second or something. But it needs something added to the fact that clones dont have Off hands and such 99% of people know all the Mesmer skills so know exactly who the mesmer is, no confusion in that is their…

Even PvE enemies tend to attack me, even after Phase Retreat or Mirror Images, let alone actual players that KNOW about Mesmers its to easy to figure out which the real one is, and i think that is where Stealth could be an option

and of course with these stealth options, cool downs would be extended. It just feels if you dont take stealth abilities then you are going to struggle at times especially when you get the Target set on you, only way to remove that is via stealth….

Even PvE enemies tend to attack me, even after Phase Retreat

PvE enemies tend to have quite obvious attack animations so just use Phase Retreat a moment before the attack hits and you avoid it.

and of course with these stealth options, cool downs would be extended.

We just had 2 of our defensive abilities, Blurred Frenzy and Chaos Armor, nerfed. Phase Retreat is basically everything the staff has left to make it worthwhile, please don’t increase it’s cd.

I suggest you use Phase Retreat, Blink, Temporal Curtain, Portal and Swap for kiting until your stealth skills are off cd. Works for me.

Iavra.8510:

We just had 2 of our defensive abilities, Blurred Frenzy and Chaos Armor, nerfed. Phase Retreat is basically everything the staff has left to make it worthwhile, please don’t increase it’s cd.

I suggest you use Phase Retreat, Blink, Temporal Curtain, Portal and Swap for kiting until your stealth skills are off cd. Works for me.

Blurred Frenzy shouldnt be a “defensive” ability to begin with, its used to ATTACK, i have never used it as a defense, i know it has the distortion affect but thats due to its long cast time and the fact you cant move.

Chaos Armor I agree with, though i use it more via combo field so all in all the nerf doesnt really bother me that much.

I would take a 15second cool down with it having a Stealth option. Maybe its just me, in PvP without stealth you will be targeted and have no way to remove the target from you.

Have you tried kiting a perma stealth Thief? we have next to no (it might as well be nothing) access to swiftness so already we are at a disadvantage considering nearly every other class has access to swiftness in and out of combat.

We get a CHANCE at it…and even then its for a measly 4seconds. I use Mirror Images, Decoy, Feedback (required IMO) and Mass Invis. The shortest cool down we have for Stealth is 24seconds, decoy is 40seconds and Mass Invis is 90seconds.

Blurred Frenzy shouldnt be a “defensive” ability to begin with, its used to ATTACK

It’s both and that’s the beauty of it. Maybe that’s part of why you aren’t able to fight against thieves. I tend to use it more for defense than offense when fighting them.

I would take a 15second cool down with it having a Stealth option. Maybe its just me, in PvP without stealth you will be targeted and have no way to remove the target from you.

Yet all the other classes who don’t get any stealth manage to survive. We have some of the best in-combat mobility out of all the classes. Your proposed change would take that away from us. If you want to get more stealth, roll thief, simple as that.

Have you tried kiting a perma stealth Thief?

I’m not playing PvP but i solo roam a lot in WvW (thieves do way more damage here than in PvP and are considered better than in PvP) and i’m able to do quite good against them in 1v1 duels. Between Blurred Frenzy, Phase Retreat, blocks on Scepter and OH sword, F4, Chaos Storm, occasional stealth, Blink and Portal for gaining distance and Chaos Armor (not that much anymore) there are a lot of options to buy you time until your heal is up again.

I also don’t really see why Feedback would be required. It’s mainly a skill for zerging and i only use it when i happen to be in a ZvZ situation. Null Field is a better Ethereal field for solo/smallscale imo and you can always use LoS to block projectiles.

/edit: Personally i always end up using Blink (traited cd) and decoy (also traited) with the last slot being either Portal, Arcane Thievery, the cleansing mantra or Null Field. I like being mobile and being able to deal with conditions when needed.

Iavra.8510:

It’s both and that’s the beauty of it. Maybe that’s part of why you aren’t able to fight against thieves. I tend to use it more for defense than offense when fighting them.

I run with Staff and Scepter Combo, havent used the sword in a long time its not the best of weapons for my build and that was before the nerfs. It was decent with 2 options to stun and then use it with the Pistol but it was and still is a Meh weapon in my opinion.

The problem isnt the defense, its the fact you can easily tell who the mesmer even without the Ctrl+T(iirc) makes it 100% without the use of stealth you can be amazing but against a good player that uses it you stand no chance at being able to get them confused into attacking clones as they KNOW who you are.

Iavra.8510:

Yet all the other classes who don’t get any stealth manage to survive. We have some of the best in-combat mobility out of all the classes. Your proposed change would take that away from us. If you want to get more stealth, roll thief, simple as thakittens

not about all the stealth its the fact that the class was meant to confuse people – the fact is, it doesnt unless you are fighting against someone that has only just installed the game it is VERY easy to tell the Mesmer and with the target option you can pretty much ignore all the clones and phantoms.

I would say Thief has the best in combat mobility, fast and near perma stealth of course i dont want us to be overpowered or anything, just make it so that we can actually trick and confuse people with the clones (which currently dont)

Sure we have Blink, Veil, Decoy and Portal when we have VERY limited access to Swiftness compared to everyone else and the fact we have just as little access outside combat

Iavra.8510:

I’m not playing PvP but i solo roam a lot in WvW (thieves do way more damage here than in PvP and are considered better than in PvP) and i’m able to do quite good against them in 1v1 duels. Between Blurred Frenzy, Phase Retreat, blocks on Scepter and OH sword, F4, Chaos Storm, occasional stealth, Blink and Portal for gaining distance and Chaos Armor (not that much anymore) there are a lot of options to buy you time until your heal is up again.

I also don’t really see why Feedback would be required. It’s mainly a skill for zerging and i only use it when i happen to be in a ZvZ situation. Null Field is a better Ethereal field for solo/smallscale imo and you can always use LoS to block projectiles.

well for all of those skills, you dont actually have access to them seeing as 2 of them are main hand weapons. So that point becomes invalid. Plus it all depends on the kind of build that Thief is running, i have seen thieves that stealth rarely and i have seen others that are in stealth for like 90% of a fight

Well “required” might be an over exaggeration to an extend but ieven in 1 Vs 1 it can be VERY useful against Rangers and others that like to stay at range, also a Combo field for a free Chaos Armor.

I find Feedback better then Null field, you only get certain classes that use alot of boons plus they dont stay in the field long enough for all the boons to be removed and they can be easily re-applied.

Sure the condition removal is nice, i have the Torch trait which removes conditions as well so that doesnt really bother me either. Is it possible to LoS in the middle of an open area?

Is it possible to LoS in the middle of an open area?

You could always try to put your illusions between you and your opponent. It won’t work when they have some kind of piercing but it’s also one of the rare moments when iWarden starts to shine ^^

Also, i always play like my opponent knows exactly who is the real me and rather try to corner him/her between me and my clones so it’ easier for me to land full shatters and harder for my opponent to see every possible attack.

I play shatter, so i try to put a good amount of pressure to drive my opponent in defense. I assume you play a condi spec, judging from the scepter, or some kind of Seven Mirrors phantasm build. Both are actually quite tanky and are able to grind opponents down. The scepter also synergizes very well with “on clone death” traits. Try to get your clones in the way of your opponents attack as much as possible. Debilitating Dissipation is a great trait since it can proc Weakness which helps a lot in terms of defense.

Iavra.8510:

Is it possible to LoS in the middle of an open area?

You could always try to put your illusions between you and your opponent. It won’t work when they have some kind of piercing but it’s also one of the rare moments when iWarden starts to shine ^^

Also, i always play like my opponent knows exactly who is the real me and rather try to corner him/her between me and my clones so it’ easier for me to land full shatters and harder for my opponent to see every possible attack.

I play shatter, so i try to put a good amount of pressure to drive my opponent in defense. I assume you play a condi spec, judging from the scepter, or some kind of Seven Mirrors phantasm build. Both are actually quite tanky and are able to grind opponents down. The scepter also synergizes very well with “on clone death” traits. Try to get your clones in the way of your opponents attack as much as possible. Debilitating Dissipation is a great trait since it can proc Weakness which helps a lot in terms of defense.

Yes i play Condition, I am (20/0/30/20/0 – V, IX, V, IV, XII, VI, VII) So taking “on death” traits, i cripple and give a condition when Clones/Phantoms die or when i use Shatters (rarely) or when using any skill that replaces them.

I mostly play in Scepter/Torch and use Staff more for defense AoE. I like to use the Stealth skills for 2 reasons:

1: Confuse
2: I have been Targeted (only way to remove iirc)

I think Anet need to state what weapons are power weapons, what are defense, condition ext because at the moment people want (for example) the Scepter buffed but in varying ways that would either destroy them in terms of power based damage or in terms of condition damage

or when i use Shatters

Actually, those traits don’t trigger on shatter, only when your clone gets killed/replaced.

Iavra.8510:

or when i use Shatters

Actually, those traits don’t trigger on shatter, only when your clone gets killed/replaced.

Yeah i meant for when i use CoF, though as its a pretty sucky skill its very rare – mostly use Distortion

shimmerless.4560:

our stealth is fine at the minute, if you want high stealth uptime (for whatever reason) the options are already there. it’s better used tactically though in my experience.

we certainly don’t need more. bumping veil up a bit would be nice however.

I am NOT saying increase duration or anything, just add it to a few other weapons. Nothing more.

We don’t need more stealth options. Even the Thief only has one weapon skill that directly applies stealth.

I’d rather see Veil and Mass Invisibility get buffs than have more stealth skills.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

shimmerless.4560:

our stealth is fine at the minute, if you want high stealth uptime (for whatever reason) the options are already there. it’s better used tactically though in my experience.

we certainly don’t need more. bumping veil up a bit would be nice however.

I am NOT saying increase duration or anything, just add it to a few other weapons. Nothing more.

Definitely don’t need anymore stealth , what i do believe however your inner Thief is coming out , its about that time to make a switch.

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

shimmerless.4560:

our stealth is fine at the minute, if you want high stealth uptime (for whatever reason) the options are already there. it’s better used tactically though in my experience.

we certainly don’t need more. bumping veil up a bit would be nice however.

I am NOT saying increase duration or anything, just add it to a few other weapons. Nothing more.

Definitely don’t need anymore stealth , what i do believe however your inner Thief is coming out , its about that time to make a switch.

Seeing as how it would be on other weapons it wouldn’t technically be MORE stealth it would just give the option for different weapon combo.

The different between Mesmer and Thief stealth is ALOT Mesmer isnt broken. Thief is. I like that we cant stay in stealth constantly but i would like the option of it being on other weapons so we could maybe have the choice of weapons. I mean if you are a Power build for example its highly unlikely that you will take the Torch thus giving you even less options for Stealth.

I dont plan on touching Thief unless (though VERY unlikely) they fix stealth, having stealth is good, having a broken amount and being in constant stealth with obscene damage and movement is NOT good.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Seeing as how it would be on other weapons it wouldn’t technically be MORE stealth it would just give the option for different weapon combo.

Given that we have two weapon sets, adding a stealth skill to any other weapon IS technically more stealth…

Embolism.8106:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Seeing as how it would be on other weapons it wouldn’t technically be MORE stealth it would just give the option for different weapon combo.

Given that we have two weapon sets, adding a stealth skill to any other weapon IS technically more stealth…

not if we only take ONE of them weapons, not everyone uses the Torch, because lets face it without the Stealth it would not be used AT ALL.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Embolism.8106:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Seeing as how it would be on other weapons it wouldn’t technically be MORE stealth it would just give the option for different weapon combo.

Given that we have two weapon sets, adding a stealth skill to any other weapon IS technically more stealth…

not if we only take ONE of them weapons, not everyone uses the Torch, because lets face it without the Stealth it would not be used AT ALL.

…

So your argument is “it isn’t more stealth if you don’t take it!”

That’s like saying “Mesmers technically have just one stealth skill if I only take Decoy!”

Embolism.8106:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Embolism.8106:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Seeing as how it would be on other weapons it wouldn’t technically be MORE stealth it would just give the option for different weapon combo.

Given that we have two weapon sets, adding a stealth skill to any other weapon IS technically more stealth…

not if we only take ONE of them weapons, not everyone uses the Torch, because lets face it without the Stealth it would not be used AT ALL.

…

So your argument is “it isn’t more stealth if you don’t take it!”

That’s like saying “Mesmers technically have just one stealth skill if I only take Decoy!”

and what about those that would like different stealth options but cant take the Torch due to their build. Sure You have Decoy, MassInvis and Veil but that requires losing ALOT elsewhere.

Decoy 40second cool down, The Prestige, 30 seconds, 90seconds and Mass Invis has 90seconds if you had ALL of them and popped them all you would get 13seconds of Stealth but taking all of that you lose elsewhere.

Having the option of it being on a different weapon would help imo, just something to make it so that the Torch isnt required.

I personally wouldn’t like to see Mesmers having more stealth abilities for 3 reasons:

• Stealth is the key game mechanic for Thiefs and also one of the few things which make them unique. If you take that away from them it’s like giving Illusions to other professions. Doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.

• It would make them more annoying to deal with. Illusions, Distortion, Teleports and now even more stealth? If something is annoying to play against it usually means one thing: nerf. We already have enough “please don’t nerf us again” threads in this forum, this would make the situation even worse.

• Stealth isn’t the key game mechanic for Mesmers – Illusions are. Yes, we already have access to stealth but that doesn’t mean you should give us more options. Instead Anet should focus on Illusions which is the reason why most players choose this profession in the first place.

Patch notes:
Mesmer
Weapon skills
Staff
phase retreat: This skill now stealths the user for 3 seconds. Cooldown was increased to 50 seconds.

No thank you xD.

Blackhat.4016:

I personally wouldn’t like to see Mesmers having more stealth abilities for 3 reasons:

• Stealth is the key game mechanic for Thiefs and also one of the few things which make them unique. If you take that away from them it’s like giving Illusions to other professions. Doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.
  [quote] Sure except they are not the only class that has access to it to begin with. The fact that the Overpowered damage, movement speed and “steal” skill isnt enough?

You seem to think that wanting one or 2 skills to trigger a stealth for a few seconds means that we would be stealing away from Perma-Stealthed, Over the top damage and insane movement speed thieves…

OUR Stealth is done right in terms that we dont have the ability to have it up 100% of a time constantly and can noob-kill people with it, adding another skill or 2 on different weapons wouldnt change that. It would allow us to change up the weapons abit. Torch is ONLY used for the Stealth, iMage SUCKS!
[/quote]

• It would make them more annoying to deal with. Illusions, Distortion, Teleports and now even more stealth? If something is annoying to play against it usually means one thing: nerf. We already have enough “please don’t nerf us again” threads in this forum, this would make the situation even worse.

More!? Illusions die easily, Distoration is like 3seconds on a 1min or so cool down, Portal is meh most of the time and is only used during Puzzles and lag killing people with zergs

I dont really have that much trouble against Mesmers and with the use of the “Target” function if that mesmer doesnt have Stealth then they are dead.

• Stealth isn’t the key game mechanic for Mesmers – Illusions are. Yes, we already have access to stealth but that doesn’t mean you should give us more options. Instead Anet should focus on Illusions which is the reason why most players choose this profession in the first place.

True but the same can be said for the other classes that have it (besides Thief) Illusions WONT get changed as it would make them too powerful, they are on the iffy side as it is. We shouldnt just be using the Illusions to kill people, just like other classes shouldnt just be using their mechanics to kill people

Again, unless you took Xxxx/Torch AND the new weapon it wouldnt be really add that much and again, taking Torch is still a bit of a disadvantage having pretty much 1 skill as the other is so weak.

Hell, could even (if possible) make the stealth on the weapons SHARE a cool down just give us other options if it wasnt for the stealth the Torch wouldnt be touched EVER

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Blackhat.4016:

I personally wouldn’t like to see Mesmers having more stealth abilities for 3 reasons:

• Stealth is the key game mechanic for Thiefs and also one of the few things which make them unique. If you take that away from them it’s like giving Illusions to other professions. Doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.
  [quote] Sure except they are not the only class that has access to it to begin with. The fact that the Overpowered damage, movement speed and “steal” skill isnt enough?

You seem to think that wanting one or 2 skills to trigger a stealth for a few seconds means that we would be stealing away from Perma-Stealthed, Over the top damage and insane movement speed thieves…

OUR Stealth is done right in terms that we dont have the ability to have it up 100% of a time constantly and can noob-kill people with it, adding another skill or 2 on different weapons wouldnt change that. It would allow us to change up the weapons abit. Torch is ONLY used for the Stealth, iMage SUCKS!
[/quote]

• It would make them more annoying to deal with. Illusions, Distortion, Teleports and now even more stealth? If something is annoying to play against it usually means one thing: nerf. We already have enough “please don’t nerf us again” threads in this forum, this would make the situation even worse.

More!? Illusions die easily, Distoration is like 3seconds on a 1min or so cool down, Portal is meh most of the time and is only used during Puzzles and lag killing people with zergs

I dont really have that much trouble against Mesmers and with the use of the “Target” function if that mesmer doesnt have Stealth then they are dead.

• Stealth isn’t the key game mechanic for Mesmers – Illusions are. Yes, we already have access to stealth but that doesn’t mean you should give us more options. Instead Anet should focus on Illusions which is the reason why most players choose this profession in the first place.

True but the same can be said for the other classes that have it (besides Thief) Illusions WONT get changed as it would make them too powerful, they are on the iffy side as it is. We shouldnt just be using the Illusions to kill people, just like other classes shouldnt just be using their mechanics to kill people

Again, unless you took Xxxx/Torch AND the new weapon it wouldnt be really add that much and again, taking Torch is still a bit of a disadvantage having pretty much 1 skill as the other is so weak.

Hell, could even (if possible) make the stealth on the weapons SHARE a cool down just give us other options if it wasnt for the stealth the Torch wouldnt be touched EVER

“OP” damage or high movement speed aren’t game mechanics. Steal definitely is one of the key game mechanics for Thiefs but stealth as well. Just by looking at the traits you can see that Anet focused on those two a lot when it comes to Thiefs.

Yes, other professions also have access to it but that doesn’t mean you should give them more. A few skills (e.g. Mesmer right now) are ok but once you give one of the other professions too much the Thief looses one of his main purposes – to be stealthed.

Mesmers are not meant to have 100% stealth uptime, if you want that go and play a Thief. Stealth is a secondary game mechanic which is supposed to make the primary mechanics more interesting and not to be the main focus of a build.

Illusions include both – Clones and Phantasms. You can use them in several ways and probably the biggest counter is killing them. There needs to be a counter to every mechanic even if it means they “die easily”. The other 2 were simply examples, if you think they are too weak then don’t use them.

I don’t have any problems playing against Mesmers either but once the “casual” player thinks it’s too strong chances are really high a nerf will follow soon. You can see that by looking at pretty much any professions.

If you don’t like playing your profession for the mechanics it offers I don’t really see why you chose it in the first place. You want stealth, go and play a Thief. You want Illusion, go and play a Mesmer. There is a reason why the profession are that different and why you have multiple character slots. Use them and you will have more fun.

And yes, torch should be improved in some way but you don’t need stealth for that.

Blackhat.4016:

“OP” damage or high movement speed aren’t game mechanics. Steal definitely is one of the key game mechanics for Thiefs but stealth as well. Just by looking at the traits you can see that Anet focused on those two a lot when it comes to Thiefs.

Yes, other professions also have access to it but that doesn’t mean you should give them more. A few skills (e.g. Mesmer right now) are ok but once you give one of the other professions too much the Thief looses one of his main purposes – to be stealthed.

Mesmers are not meant to have 100% stealth uptime, if you want that go and play a Thief. Stealth is a secondary game mechanic which is supposed to make the primary mechanics more interesting and not to be the main focus of a build.

Illusions include both – Clones and Phantasms. You can use them in several ways and probably the biggest counter is killing them. There needs to be a counter to every mechanic even if it means they “die easily”. The other 2 were simply examples, if you think they are too weak then don’t use them.

I don’t have any problems playing against Mesmers either but once the “casual” player thinks it’s too strong chances are really high a nerf will follow soon. You can see that by looking at pretty much any professions.

If you don’t like playing your profession for the mechanics it offers I don’t really see why you chose it in the first place. You want stealth, go and play a Thief. You want Illusion, go and play a Mesmer. There is a reason why the profession are that different and why you have multiple character slots. Use them and you will have more fun.

And yes, torch should be improved in some way but you don’t need stealth for that.

NO class should have the kind of stealth Thief have. The class has been broken from the start. Yes Thief should have more stealth, NO they shouldnt have full un-ending stealth. And again all i was saying is that we should have OPTIONS, if Stealth was on another weapon the Torch would be forgotten about.

I see stealth on Mesmer as being able to confuse people, because lets face it with the target function if you have no stealth then you have no defense you will get targeted 100% of the time

Clones were designed/meant to confuse…except they dont, well maybe the odd new player but nearly everyone is now able to easily tell with the fact that clones have no offhand, they dont move and they cast one spell its far from tough to tell the real mesmer, using stealth helps ALOT.

Thief stealth mechanic is the MOST broken idea in the whole game. Yes we have stealth is it broken? No. Would it break us and mean we would get nerfed if that Torch stealth was mo ved/added to another skill on another weapon? IMO – No.

No?

• Option 1: Move the torch stealth to another skill weapon.
  It’s well known that pMage is less valued phantasm for the majority of players and torch is used mainly due to The Prestige and his utilily. The value of torch in this case will down in to the ground. Devs are not going to do it ever even more after a patch where they have buffed some skills to make more unused weapons desirable, idem with torch indirectly buffing Prismatic Understanding. But that make torch more oriented/desirable/profitable for utility or defensive builds.

• Option 2: Add stealth to the skill of another mesmer weapon.
  The new stealth skill in another weapon + torch + Decoy + Veil + Mass Invisibility = Our subforum again full of QQers and Whiners again = nerf incoming.
  If they do that , the first nerf will go to PU sure, and perhaps something more, and PU now is really good and desirable in Chaos , support/tank and even other builds.

I’m not sure if you like torch or you don’t like torch and due to that you wish have the stealth in another weapon, but i’m almost sure that devs are not going to add stealth in another weapon, at least not in the weapons that we have now.

Perhaps in a future expansion with new weapons or when they add new weapons for mesmer profession, it’ll be possible have one or more designed to have stealth. But sure that they’ll keep an eye in our traits too, and general balance if they do it.

Finally , YES, I’ve written in other threads that a improvement to pMage is desirable to up him and make torch more profitable in general for all kind of builds.

P.S: What calm now we have in our subforum after the patch or , at least, we do not have so many unwanted visitors as before.

Good night.

Zoser.7245:

Finally , YES, I’ve written in other threads that a improvement to pMage is desirable to up him and make torch more profitable in general for all kind of builds.

I dont want a change, i want an overhaul. totally redesigned would be required i think, Confusion is just to much of a average condition and as stated in other threads i would take Torment/Cripple/Bleeding/Chill over Confusion. I think he Boon should be ALWAYS given to the Memser.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Zoser.7245:

Finally , YES, I’ve written in other threads that a improvement to pMage is desirable to up him and make torch more profitable in general for all kind of builds.

I dont want a change, i want an overhaul. totally redesigned would be required i think, Confusion is just to much of a average condition and as stated in other threads i would take Torment/Cripple/Bleeding/Chill over Confusion. I think he Boon should be ALWAYS given to the Memser.

If you search topics about torch you’ll find that I even proposed add purple poison or burn with confusion or instead of the confusion or anything plus improve pMage, precisely because of the nerf that was done to confusion condition in wvw, perhaps it was too late, but we discussed it in more than one thread over the past months. Torment is an option now. Sadly they did nothing to improve the skills of the torch. Perhaps you could even revive the last torch thread or make new one.

But I’m sure that they read us, another thing is if they want to do something about it.

Edit: I forgot write that i was fighting (LOL) in the bouncing bug thread too and finally it was fixed. Sigh

Zoser.7245:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Zoser.7245:

Finally , YES, I’ve written in other threads that a improvement to pMage is desirable to up him and make torch more profitable in general for all kind of builds.

I dont want a change, i want an overhaul. totally redesigned would be required i think, Confusion is just to much of a average condition and as stated in other threads i would take Torment/Cripple/Bleeding/Chill over Confusion. I think he Boon should be ALWAYS given to the Memser.

If you search topics about torch you’ll find that I even proposed add purple poison or burn with confusion or instead of the confusion or anything plus improve pMage, precisely because of the nerf that was done to confusion condition in wvw, perhaps it was too late, but we discussed it in more than one thread over the past months. Torment is an option now. Sadly they did nothing to improve the skills of the torch. Perhaps you could even revive the last torch thread or make new one.

But I’m sure that they read us, another thing is if they want to do something about it.

Edit: I forgot write that i was fighting (LOL) in the bouncing bug thread too and finally it was fixed. Sigh

Means nothing, no matter the change people will continue to call for the class to be nerfed while on their noob-proof perma stealth thieves. The is just getting worse and worse.

We must not lose the hope to improve, even a little, the torch. Players of other professions like us to use it, because it is good for team play through fields and bounce. PvP players know their weakness in duel. (stealth against a mesmer with torch is a big red flag, and pMage is meh…)

It is the only weapon we have now that can be improved without the world come to protest.

Time to time. We’ll see, though I admit that if they have done nothing to improve it since now, or have low priority or do not plan to do anything …

Now, good night (again), my bed is calling me.

Thief stealth is fine. It’s combo stealth (regardless of class, engis can do this too, not just to the extent thieves can due to having cds) what causes perma-stealth.

Iavra.8510:

Thief stealth is fine. It’s combo stealth (regardless of class, engis can do this too, not just to the extent thieves can due to having cds) what causes perma-stealth.

As a whole its not to bad, however the fact that Thief have SO much access to it IS bad. It needs to be reduced by ALOT. Stealth shouldnt be perma and it should be more of a tactical use, not perma use.

The class needs to have it reduced in how long it is active, a longer cool down as well. Cant comment on Engis as i have no experience of them and stealth

As i already suggested multiple times: Stealth from combos shouldn’t be stackable. Also reduce black powder duration to 3s so the thief needs a new field everytime he does his BP + HS combo. The increased amount of initiative needed makes it harder or even impossible to maintain stealth indefinitely.

Iavra.8510:

As i already suggested multiple times: Stealth from combos shouldn’t be stackable. Also reduce black powder duration to 3s so the thief needs a new field everytime he does his BP + HS combo. The increased amount of initiative needed makes it harder or even impossible to maintain stealth indefinitely.

THIS. Stealth should be more of a situational/tactical use not perma-stealth.

Please no more stealth. I want stealth reduced in this game and not increased. As a condition clone mesmer, stay near your clones. AoE damage will kill them most of the time anyway. Another trick is to stand still when safe to confuse people (it works a lot)

Condition mesmers need more ways to survive I agree but stealth is not the answer :-)

Demon.5082:

Please no more stealth. I want stealth reduced in this game and not increased. As a condition clone mesmer, stay near your clones. AoE damage will kill them most of the time anyway. Another trick is to stand still when safe to confuse people (it works a lot)

Condition mesmers need more ways to survive I agree but stealth is not the answer :-)

Even if another 3second stealth option was added we wouldnt be overpowered or prema stealthed. Having to take a Utility AND Elite for defense is very annoying, combined with the fact we have VERY little/no access to a REASONABLE length swiftness makes escaping without Stealth impossible.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Demon.5082:

Please no more stealth. I want stealth reduced in this game and not increased. As a condition clone mesmer, stay near your clones. AoE damage will kill them most of the time anyway. Another trick is to stand still when safe to confuse people (it works a lot)

Condition mesmers need more ways to survive I agree but stealth is not the answer :-)

Even if another 3second stealth option was added we wouldnt be overpowered or prema stealthed. Having to take a Utility AND Elite for defense is very annoying, combined with the fact we have VERY little/no access to a REASONABLE length swiftness makes escaping without Stealth impossible.

A timed phase retreat or blink followed immediately by decoy lets you get away 80% of the time. Cast mass invis when in decoy stealth and no one will ever catch you. Mass invis is defensive in general but you can do a lot of cool things with it like a group ambush or clutch revives. Like I said, we need a few defenses maybe and some movement buff (25% signet is ideal for this) but not stealth.

More stealth is unnecessary. You don’t use stealth to confuse your opponents, you use it as a target drop and for a quick breather for positioning.

A good Mesmer does not play to confuse the opponent with clones. A good player will never be confused by clones. A good Mesmer assumes that their opponent will always know who the real one is and plays accordingly.

Stealth is the thief mechanic, not the Mesmer. Our class uses stealth in a different way, in high pressure situations for a quick disengage. Thieves can use stealth as their main form of defense. We don’t need that. More stealth would be completely unnecessary.

Adding more stealth to Mesmer would be unnecessary, and would likely make some builds extremely overpowered, not to mention we would receive some serious nerfs with that. This is an abysmal idea.

With stealth it CAN confuse people, so it helps sure will everyone get confused? Unlikely. I remember Anet saying that clones were there to confuse and disorientate people – well the simple fact is they dont. with the use of “Target Function” unless you have stealth you are pretty much screwed.

Its not really a quick disengage seeing as we dont get swiftness or anything so unless we reduce our utilities and take Blink we can find it VERY hard to escape -maybe adding swiftness to Stealth would fix this? i mean its not like we get much else for Swiftness, unless again we take a Utility slot for Veil or Focus(iirc)

This wasnt intended to make the class overpowered and it wouldnt if done right (though its Anet so it likely wouldnt) Just adding the option on a different weapon, having to take Torch for ONE skill (iMage SUCKS!) or having to take Utility slots for it makes us weak enough.

If you rely on stealth to confuse your opponents, you will get consistently destroyed by any competent player.

Stealth is a quick disengage. It’s not a permanent disengage, it’s a short and quick one. It’s gives you enough time to regain control of the fight.

A better change would be to make the iMage not horrible.

It wouldnt be so bad if we actually got a reliable trait based access to swiftness or 25% movement speed. Sure you can stealth but when most classes can out run you in combat without needing swiftness it shows something is wrong.

Sure we have Portal, Blink and Veil but having to take them means we lose elsewhere – other classes dont.

Better out-of-combat mobility has been suggested multiple times and since both Signet of Midnight and Inspiration aren’t that impressive for their passive, i would like to see one of them changed to +25% movement speed.

/edit: After the nerf to Signet of Illusions and since 1500 condi-dmg is enough most of the time, i would actually be okay with any of our signets changed to +movement speed.

We don’t need more stealth, period. Don’t spam it, use it as a timed target drop. When i stealth, i usually cast a phantasm so it’s unlikely to get interrupted, heal and move right through my opponent to reappear on the other side. Most of the time that’s enough to confuse him/her for some seconds which can end a fight quickly.

Yeah i see your point, it just kind of gets annoying how we can be so easily chased down unless we “waste” utility slots, other classes get minor traits and major traits that increase speed as well as skill based options (RTL anyone?)

So just a bit of help in/out of combat with movement speed would be very much appreciated

I get never chased down unless i really want that specific kill or get jumped without noticing. I’m using Staff + Sword/Focus with Decoy and Blink as fixed utility skills (3rd is Portal most of the time and i tend to always have it placed somewhere safe for retreating).

Also considering the huge amount of nerfing RTL received until now i’m actually fine with having Blink (traited for 24s cd).

/edit: When roaming on a borderland in WvW, you should try to reach the water as soon as possible. Spear #2 and #4 make up for very fast movement. Also placing a portal in a place that’s hard to see makes it easy to lose those chasing you (try to place it on shallow water as it’s very hard to notice there).

i have used Portal ONCE and that was today to port 5 mech things(forget the name lol) when we took SM. I dont think i would be comfortable taking Blink and Portal, i only use Blink when out of combat and try as much as i can to change to Feedback when possible.

Though for the GS build i am thinking about maybe Blink could be quite useful.

Well, you complain about getting chased and don’t like Blink and Portal. These two are basically your tools against getting chased. You can’t just expect to get away from everything without doing something about it ^^

Personally, i never use Feedback outside of zergs, and i hate zergs. Smart opponents running in groups will never mindlessly spam their ranged attacks in your feedback so you’re better off taking something that will actually help you. If you absolutely need something against projectiles, i would suggest taking Mirror as your heal.

You should actually try playing a thief. From what i’ve reading until now, the class may be better suited for you.

Blink is okay, Portal is just an awful skill in my opinion. Blink “ump” isnt even that far and has issues with the slightest terrain change as well. Its more about the lack of movement speed every other class gets a RELIABLE access to it via traits and passive effects what do we get? the odd weapon that has a bit, more RNG and thats about it.

You would be surprised, roaming i go with Blink but in Zergs both in the field and at keeps is VERY useful to the point i take it NO matter what the build is i am running, normally switch it out when not zerging or attacking/defending a base.

I hate Thief, i refuse to play a class that you can smash your face on the keyboard and win – they are to broken for my liking. Despite saying i would like more option for Stealth, more about the OPTION (weapon wise) i dont want to see stealth increased. Thats one of the things i HATE about Thieves, along with obscene combat movement and obscene damage

I never had any issue with blink…i also can’t really understand all the thieves complaining about their shadowsteps getting stuck. After a while, you know where you can port and where not and where you can use Blink to get away from a zerg chasing you (south west camp, in front of the entrance. Left from the door you can port onto the roof from outside, giving you quite an advantage against opponents that have to walk there. Also works with ele blink, thieves blink and even guardian teleports as there often is a white hawk mob that you can target for JI or Flashing Blade).

In zergs you should be have plenty of swiftness from other people. If not, your zerglings are bad ^^

Portal is actually really, really good. Watch some Osicat videos about it’s use and test it for a while. Maybe you will like it afterwards ^^ It’s cd is quite high, sure, but most of the time i don’t really find any other utility i would prefer over it. Arcane Thievery and Mantra of Resolve are the only real contenders here.

Also you are quite contradictory when you are saying you want more stealth without increasing it. Having stealth on more weapons effectively increases stealth uptime for anyone taking that weapon + what we already have. “You just have the option and don’t need to take both torch + the other weapon” is not an argument.

i want more OPTIONS, rather then it being stuck on a useless weapon, move it to a weapon that is actually useful!

Or they could make the stealth on weapons share a cool down. Without the stealth the Torch would be dead, either fix iCrap – i mean iMage or change Torch #4 and move Stealth somewhere else where it would be more beneficial.