Guild Wars 2

So this suggestion will be with current state in mind aswell with a previous suggestion i made about core mesmer.

Traits:

• All Wells That Ends Well now reads: Grants a boon associated with your well when they end. Reduces well recharge.
  Eternity grants 10s Regeneration.
  Calamity grants 3 stacks Might for 8s.
  Action grants 8s Fury
  Recall grants 5s Alacrity
  Precognition grants 5s Vigor
  Gravity grants 5s Protection
  Recharge 10%.

• Danger Time: Gain increased ferocity while under the effects of Quickness. (+250). Gain additional critical-hit change against slowed enemies (10%)

lol, you obviously don’t play pve at all. Thats all I’m bona say. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad your posting ideas. However, chronos are only brought into raids to give alacrity and quickness to allies. Quickness is no longer mes specific. Many classes can now give themselves quickness and other classes can give quickness to allies as well. If chronos don’t dish out the alacrity to make up for their horrendous dps, then they won’t only not be desirable in raids, but they would probably be shunned as well.

Cause perma quickness and more personal dmg is a bad thing in pve right? And cause gutting chrono/mesmer cause alacrity being an issue with other classes skills is fine right?
Cause improving mesmer solo pve experience rather than party buff bot is also bad, right?
Cause 4s alacrity when u cs ( or 6s traited) of better alacrity (66%) doenst mean actually 6 or 9s of current alacrity. And also because keep shattering + ressumoning phantasms to close or perma keep alacrity on self and refreshing chronophantasma is not also a pve thing…

Or are you like nab revenant players that camped facets and sword auto only? Do you also summon and keep 3 phantasms and utility bot only? Or do you even shatter+refresh them? You know shatter? Your class mechanic?

Obviously i didnt thought about pve at all…

Yes alacrity share matter a lot when to take a chrono. But also is the thing that makes chrono “balanced” at its current miserable state. Never thought old alacrity was a problem. Even said it still lacked personal damage. Im sure perma 25might+banners+EA brings far dps increase than perma alacrity+quickness mesmer brought. And warrior dps is far superior. But the problem is devs thinks its a problem. And mesmer got nerfed, again.
And be serious, how can you replicate the amount of quickness a mesmer can bring with other class? You cant. Quickness will always make a chrono be diserable in raids.
Do you want me to elaborate more?

FJSAMA.2867:

Cause perma quickness and more personal dmg is a bad thing in pve right? And cause gutting chrono/mesmer cause alacrity being an issue with other classes skills is fine right?
Cause improving mesmer solo pve experience rather than party buff bot is also bad, right?
Cause 4s alacrity when u cs ( or 6s traited) of better alacrity (66%) doenst mean actually 6 or 9s of current alacrity. And also because keep shattering + ressumoning phantasms to close or perma keep alacrity on self and refreshing chronophantasma is not also a pve thing…

Or are you like nab revenant players that camped facets and sword auto only? Do you also summon and keep 3 phantasms and utility bot only? Or do you even shatter+refresh them? You know shatter? Your class mechanic?

Obviously i didnt though about pve at all…

Oookkk, lets take this one step at a time.
“Cause perma quickness and more personal dmg is a bad thing in pve right?”
I never said this, and don’t know how your pulled this idea out of my post. Right now, you can get perma alacrity on allies with wells and phantasms. Therefore, the main issue the devs want to change is how potent alacrity is. Anyone can say perma alacrity is really powerful. However, if that perma alacrity only reduced cool downs by a low amount like 10%, then it will be nearly completely useless. You are giving up all your dps so that you can give a buff to allies that is worse than many skills they can trait for.

And cause gutting chrono/mesmer cause alacrity being an issue with other classes skills is fine right?
Once again, I did not say this, and I surely did not mean to imply it. You seem to think I want chrono gutted, which could not be further from the truth. I don’t want it gutted. The changes you suggest would ruin the class in pve. I want to play mesmer in both game types. If alacrity is an issue with only some specific classes, then those classes should at least be looked at. If alacrity is an issue when you give it to pretty much all other classes (except rev and thief), then the alacrity that is dished out to allies needs to be looked at. Therefore, yes, I do think this is the case. Alacrity dished to allies is too powerful. However, first, I think the power that a chrono can bring to allies has been way overestimated based on the current nerf and second, this means you just need to lower the effect of alacrity to allies. Having it so the chrono did not give any alacrity to allies would just ruin the class in pve because the chrono, even when specifically traited, has hardly any dps compared to the other classes like burnzerker. If you think removing alacrity given to allies with increase the build variety in pve, then I believe you are mistaken. You can still create a build that doesn’t give alacrity to allies if you want to. However, the problem is everyone finds those builds useless. It doesn’t matter if you remove alacrity to allies or not. Those builds will still remain worthless. On the other hand, I don’t know what you are thinking pvp wise either. A bunker chrono needs well of recall to lower the cool downs of its shield and other skills. This build would still remain dead with your changes. All you would do would increase the alacrity for shatter builds. Which, imo, there is a lot better way to balance shatter builds than butchering builds in other game modes as well.

Cause improving mesmer solo pve experience rather than party buff bot is also bad, right?
As I said before, you can play with your own solo pve experience however you want. However, it does not mean it will be useful to other players or that other players will want you to play with them. In order for chrono to remain viable without giving alacrity to allies would require a huge overhaul to the whole class.

Cause 4s alacrity when u cs ( or 6s traited) of better alacrity (66%) doenst mean actually 6 or 9s of current alacrity. And also because keep shattering + ressumoning phantasms to close or perma keep alacrity on self and refreshing chronophantasma is not also a pve thing…

I really don’t quite understand what you mean by this. If you want to explain it a little more in another comment though, Ill have another look at it and get back to you.

Or are you like nab revenant players that camped facets and sword auto only?

Ive payed revenant before. However, I currently do not have a revenant toon. It is deleted do to lack of character spaces.

Do you also summon and keep 3 phantasms and utility bot only? Or do you even shatter+refresh them? You know shatter? Your class mechanic?

lol, of course, if you don’t shatter, even in pve than you are playing the class wrong. What would make you think that I never shatter. Actually one of my favorite builds involves using dom/duel/illusion to put up a continuos shatter sequence with my great sword so that I can lower my cool downs as much as possible so that I can ultimately dish out as much alacrity to allies as possible while still putty up a little damage.

By the way, I apologize for sounding rude in my first comment. I shouldn’t have said it that way. However, I maintain my stance based on my reasoning behind it.

I also realize that you, silverkey, and many others want a wide arrange of viable builds to play by bringing all trait lines in line with each other. I want the same thing. However, I think this is only possible in pvp. I don’t think its possible in pve due to the nature of the class right now unless you changed almost everything. Additionally there is a difference between one or two viable builds and a bunch of equal builds that are not viable. I would rather have the former. Although, yes, I do think its possible in pvp, but I also think it can be done without removing the class from pve.

Xstein.2187:

I never said this, and don’t know how your pulled this idea out of my post. Right now, you can get perma alacrity on allies with wells and phantasms. Therefore, the main issue the devs want to change is how potent alacrity is. Anyone can say perma alacrity is really powerful. However, if that perma alacrity only reduced cool downs by a low amount like 10%, then it will be nearly completely useless. You are giving up all your dps so that you can give a buff to allies that is worse than many skills they can trait for.

What i tried to point was a scenario without alacrity sharing. You would bring more dps (not only because the changes i pointed out) but because you could bring better phantasms, better wells/utilities. Imagine alacrity as a personal buff, like fencer finesse. Do you think mesmer would loose it spot when perma quickness is a thing? Again, alacrity is not a thing dont account/compare with today, where it is a thing.

Xstein.2187:

If you think removing alacrity given to allies with increase the build variety in pve, then I believe you are mistaken. You can still create a build that doesn’t give alacrity to allies if you want to. However, the problem is everyone finds those builds useless

You are again comparing the case where alacrity is a thing to others with alacrity is not a thing. Even if you deleted alacrity from the game chrono would still be taken because quickness. Dont compare dpses of classes with and without alacrity. Currently you are stuck with shield off-hand and at least 2/3 wells for alacrity share sake only!!… Removing alacrity share would free that spots. Rethink the possibilities.

Xstein.2187:

On the other hand, I don’t know what you are thinking pvp wise either. A bunker chrono needs well of recall to lower the cool downs of its shield and other skills. This build would still remain dead with your changes.

Imagine chronobunker with chronophantasma and mental defense. Shattering only would fill alacrity needs with improved alacrity traited. Shield phantasm would provide defensive improvments, well of precog same, and you didnt rely on wells because alacrity only. You could still run wells on your utilities if you wanted and even trait them (my sugested change) for sightly lower cd and unique boon. It would obviously make chronobunker better than current state.. Not sure if enough to make it a thing since res/stomp nerfs + bunker amulets+ chaos armor+protection/resistance uptime.
Please, stop saying “shatter builds”. Shatter is mesmer class mechanic, not a build.

For the rest basically tried to say that if you still wanted to make perma alacrity a thing, you still could, with actually a noticable alacrity (66% rather than 33%)when building for it.
I also think alacrity is overstimated (outside chrono) the problem is devs think not. When they address alacrity and leave the rest of mesmer untouched is a good sign of it.
Crippling mesmer cause alacrity on others is overstimated… it is frustating.

About being rude: no hard feelings its all good, afterall we are having a discussion. You just could comment on other things than alacrity only. I personally think Alacrity sharing is the big cause of all this headaches to mesmers. Taking it away from other would only change dps overall of a raid party but it only make personal mesmer better not threatening any party composition since we have quickness. And the excuses(“alacrity is a big pseudo-dps boost, mes dps is fine cause this utility”, Alacrity is too powerfull cause rams/balistas on wvw, etc) to keep mesmer itself on the current state would be no more!. Actually alacrity have close to non dps increase to mesmer (since its dps comes from auto-attack+phantasms and alacrity will never be up on a phantasm with a raid environment). It only hits the only thing mesmer brings, utility.

Believe me, I am not comparing the dps of support chronomancer to the other classes. Even if the chronomancer has alacrity at 66% while the other classes don’t, brings oh sword, mantras, etc. creates the best dps build, it will still not compare to other classes in terms of dps. The dps of mesmer was trash compared to the other classes before HoT. It was only wanted in speed runs due to portal. Then, after HoT, there was a huge power creep made in terms of dps by the other classes. To compensate for the dps spike and large difference between the classes, anet allowed the chonomancer to give alacrity. The changes you suggested really don’t do much to increase the dps of a mesmer in a raid setting. They will already have furry, might, and ferocity from other classes. Without giving alacrity to allies, there would still have to be huge changes to bring chrono up to par that you don’t mention. And yes, I really think it is to the point where a chrono just bringing quickness is not going to cut it. Those other classes still have a huge dps without alacrity. It would be interesting actually what the comparisons are between a dps chrono with alacrity and other classes without alacrity. I currently believe the other classes would win. If the chrono could give up its support wells for mantras or other skills for more dps and be competitive with the other classes, then why didn’t we see such a build evolve out as an alternative to support?

Oh ok ya, I agree, your changes could work for a bunker pvp build. It also would help “glass cannon shatter builds” (both burst dmg and condi) with self alacrity at 66%. Now I think the main things we disagree on is pve. For that, lets be honest, we can only theory craft so much and its best to go out and test it and gather empirical evidence.
And sorry, ya, I see this thread could be used for suggestion besides alacrity. I actually do agree with many of the changes others have suggested for the weaker skills out in the mesmers kitten nal right now. The problem is, we just totally disagree on what is best for pve mes and those disagreements both take the class in a totally different direction. I am also not saying its impossible to do what you are saying. However, to do that you have to increase the dps of the mes by changing many other skills. Such as sword auto dmg, mantra dmg, etc. It would be possible. However, I don’t see it as something the devs would ever do, but maybe I’m wrong. I just, personally, think its more likely to cause more problems with the class. Just don’t want to go back to the portal bot days, you understand. But ya, at least we are discussing and both attempting to find some solution. Anything is better than doing nothing. Im sure the devs will find some solution.

p.s. ya the same could be said about phantasm builds. Phantasms are obviously used in all build types. Eh, as long as people generally have an idea of what type of build I am talking about when people say burst shatter, lockdown, condi, phantasm, etc. I don’t really care. We need some name for them. Lockdown is the same way. You can use “lockdown” skills or traits in other builds. However, the main thing is what the build is trying to specialize in. Wellll, just realized this was getting a little of topic though

1- If you think quickness alone wouldnt make it i dont know what to say… 33% alacrity its not for sure. It is only a bonus. Most dps demanding “achievments” like gorseval no updraft were made with thief stacking, and guess what, alacrity have insignificant impact there. And a mesmer was there… for what? quickness.

2- Just from the changes i presented there you could get ~6k dps increase just from changing phantasms to sword only ( even if u wanted to keep shield for utility) and you could get danger time for +250 ferocity (~17% c. dmg increase for both mesmer/phantasms), you could free one utility slot for well of calamity for example for also a dps increase and sightly better quickness uptime with chrono runes. Better quickness means less boon duration dependant, means you can change you food for example. Dps increase. Examples. “Shatter” mesmer on pvp would also be sightly boosted since im accounting alacrity as 66% recharge rate and flow of time got boosted from 3/4s to 1s. Precog would be a decent stunbreak finishing with 1 dodge refund.

3- Those changes are not the only i presented. I said in begining i would have also the previous changes that i sugested in mind. And you cant fix mesmer sustained dps on chrono line only. Those just help to compensate the elites power creep. And i think is also wrong assuming the pseudo dps that mesmer brings via utility only to balance.
For example i didnt see any ele complaining that lost dps in raids because alacrity nerf and demanding compensations on their dps/skills.

Conclusion: Mesmer would still keep its place in raids no doubt. Mesmer dps would be better than currently and all this bs about alacrity would go away and would serve no excuse not to balance the mesmer the way it should be because alacrity is a sensitive case. Also all identity of chronomancer is kept and just little changes were made (devs way of changing) rather than full reworks/traits remix. Dont want to be portal bot? Lets redistribute the weight between the utility to personal dps.. Rather than buffing utility and ignoring the rest.

FJSAMA.2867:

Intro

hide spoiler

Ok, let’s be serious, Alacrity isn’t working since it’s hard to balance due to the enormous amount of skills (profession/items/misc) and mostly because external skills to mesmer/chronomancer. When a specialization is designed with alacrity in mind and then because the things i said above, alacrity is nerfed, all the other things loses it’s balance also. Chronomancer is being crippled because of that and Mesmer was already a crippled profession that depends alot on its elite spec.

So this suggestion will be with current state in mind aswell with a previous sugestion i made about core mesmer. Also will aim to make alacrity just a Chronomancer thing and change the things sightly rather than full rework. (like i did on the other sugestion to keep synergy and identity we are used to)

Mechanics:

• Alacrity back to 66% recharge rate.

• Phantasmal Avenger: “Pulse” 2s Aegis instead of Alacrity

Wells:

• Well of Recall: Last pulse gives 5s Superspeed instead of Alacrity.

• Well of Precognition: Pulses 1s Stability and ends with 50 Endurance. Cast time lowered to 1/4s.

Traits:

• All Wells That Ends Well now reads: Grants a boon associated with your well when they end. Reduces well recharge.
  Eternity grants 10s Regeneration.
  Calamity grants 5 stacks Might for 8s.
  Action grants 8s Fury
  Recall grants 10s Swiftness
  Precognition grants 5s Vigor
  Gravity grants 5s Protection
  Recharge 10%.

• Flow of Time: This will be the only source of Alacrity, time bumped from 3/4s to 1s per shatter.

• Danger Time: Gain increased ferocity while under the effects of Quickness. (+250)

• Lost Time: Added functionality – Critical hits against slowed enemies grants might. 5s might (1 stack) 1s ICD

Conclusion: Alacrity will only be a chronomancer buff. No longer shared with allies. No longer well spam for alacrity sake. More build variety. Possibility to more personal dps or more utility (via alacrity uptime on self). Less “dead” traits. No more cripple mesmer because outsiders imbalances. Perserve the great thematic work done in Chrono design. A better and controlled environment since alacrity is only applied to self and then less CDs to worry with, less alacrity but more effective one. A global effect when mesmer spec into chrono since it affects its class mechaninc – shatters (cause right now the focus of alacrity is more on wells/phantasm rather than anything narrowing wep/utility variety).

What you guys think. End of headaches?

Congratulations.
Your suggestions literally kill ChronoMancer.

You have made no changes to our personal DPS other than might (Rev/Tempest/Warrior, 3 classes YOU WILL ALMOST ALWAYS TAKE already max out might at 25 stacks) on that worthless slow trait.

You haven’t changed our weak auto attacks.
You haven’t buffed our damage in the slightest.
You have just removed the only thing anyone takes a mesmer for.

A guardian can provide quickness, easily.
TW isn’t enough.

It wasn’t enough pre-HoT. It isn’t enough now.

FJSAMA.2867:

in mind aswell with a previous sugestion i made about core mesmer.

^They are here! (click the link)

2- I wanna see a guardian with 5s quickness (or 10s with 100% boon duration) in a 45 second CD (cause dont have access to alacrity in my sugestion) cover permanent uptime, Keppo.

3- Again chronomancer shouldnt be the solution to mesmer lacks in personal dmg. Besides that i only changed Danger Time to a slight increase to make up for the powercreep other classes also got with elite specs.

4- Stop crying about it like little babies not offering a sugestion in return.

5- Alacrity sharing is what is crippling mesmer even more. Just look at last patch and take you conclusions. The balance patch. I would gladly let it go from sharing to personal only. Certainly, since they nerfed it like this, they wont increase it back and also increase the rest we need. But if we can have it both, better, i just doubt they will.

FJSAMA.2867:

FJSAMA.2867:

in mind aswell with a previous sugestion i made about core mesmer.

^They are here! (click the link)

2- I wanna see a guardian with 5s quickness (or 10s with 100% boon duration) in a 45 second CD (cause dont have access to alacrity in my sugestion) cover permanent uptime, Keppo.

3- Again chronomancer shouldnt be the solution to mesmer lacks in personal dmg. Besides that i only changed Danger Time to a slight increase to make up for the powercreep other classes also got with elite specs.

4- Stop crying about it like little babies not offering a sugestion in return.

Ahh, apologies. I missed that part.

On #4 though.
I’ve done half a dozen different suggestions on this forum.

On your new #5.
They won’t buff mesmer. Period.
The nerf they did was unquestionably too hard. And alacrity wasn’t the main problem.
They decided to do the largest sweeping nerf they can, because everyone hates mesmer anyway.

Even now, I still hear QQ every time someone runs into a condi mesmer, or gets killed by a shatter mesmer.

I don’t get why many people think alacrity is not working anymore. Alacrity is just fine. People thought alacrity was the core of the chronomancer line: it is not. It is just 3 traits. You can build for it, but you don’t need to. It’s like the confusion on shatter in “Illusion”, you can make a condi shatter build with it and other traits, but even power shatter use to take the line, even if confusion does pitiful damage in power build.

So yes, a shatter build does not benefit much from alacrity (though a full shatter still gives 1s cooldown reduction on all skills which is always nice to have), but a build with wells and shield can pump a lot of alacrity and then, can get 25% cooldown reduction on the whole party (PvE mostly, but bunker chrono does provide a decent amount too), which is quite good for the investment.

I know this is a controversial opinion, but I think the alacrity nerf was very positive (though I think some other nerfs like resistance or precognition were bad). Now this allow more build diversity:

• chronomancer outshines less core-mesmer builds
• alacrity traits outshine less non-alacrity traits

And for the overall balance:

• PvE mesmer is still a thing
• PvP shatter mesmer with or without chronomancer is somewhat on par with chronobunker in terms of viability
• PvP mesmer is pretty much crushed by some other elite specs, but this is mostly because the other elite specs are OP.

A few easy things which would help mesmer now:

• move the movement speed buff to dueling or domination instead of chrono
• buff the sustained damage of mesmer: stronger AA or (not easy anymore) full redesign of the phantasm concept
• reduce power creep of other specs

Silverkey.2078:

I don’t get why many people think alacrity is not working anymore. Alacrity is just fine.

I dont think alacrity its not working. I think it is a nice bonus still. Yet its being used as an excuse to perpetuate the mesmer on its state.. If devs forgot about all other mesmer problems in this balance patch and we can have both, alacrity sharing and mesmer current lacks fixed and working together, nice i will take it.
But i just think that wont happen if they keep alacrity to “fix” mesmer pseudo-dps.

Silverkey.2078:

You can build for it, but you don’t need to.

The problem is the other options that compete with alacrity traits are even more lacking making alacrity traits a 2/3 choice. The only trait being taken or not is the well trait depending on how many wells we use.

Silverkey.2078:

A few easy things which would help mesmer now:

I would add:

*Make moddifiers affect phantasms.

FJSAMA.2867:

Conclusion: Alacrity will only be a chronomancer buff. No longer shared with allies. No longer well spam for alacrity sake. More build variety.

What you guys think. End of headaches?

Sorry for skimming your thread, but I don’t find it worth reading just from noticing these few statements.
1) The big selling point of Alacrity is that it can be shared with others via Chronomancer.
2) The idea of build your so-called diversity from lack of alacrity sharing is silly. Now, chrono is just an “improved” Illusions tree.
3) The only way to end this headache is to make self-alacrity 66% and ally-alacrity 33%. Anet has the tech to do this.

After playing a bit in the hot mess that is unranked, I’m feeling the alacrity nerf. Before, I wasn’t as bothered at the thought, but I’m feeling like it’s severely over-nerfed…

Please stop saying self-alacrity should remain 66%… The situation was:

• shared alacrity was OP in PvE
• self-alacrity was OP in PvP for bunker specs

Actually, many people in PvP even suggested to reduce the effectiveness of alacrity on self while keeping the shared alacrity as it was, because self alacrity was the only really OP part.

Silverkey.2078:

Please stop saying self-alacrity should remain 66%…

• self-alacrity was OP in PvP for bunker specs

Since bunker specs are pretty effectively dead with or without original alacrity, what’s your beef with saying it should remain 66%?
You’re taking it out of context again, as though the other nerfs didn’t happen.
You’ve been doing that a lot over this.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Silverkey.2078:

Please stop saying self-alacrity should remain 66%…

• self-alacrity was OP in PvP for bunker specs

Since bunker specs are pretty effectively dead with or without original alacrity, what’s your beef with saying it should remain 66%?
You’re taking it out of context again, as though the other nerfs didn’t happen.
You’ve been doing that a lot over this.

And you have been blaming me for this all over :p

As I said in other places, I think alacrity is good. I think the nerf to resistance was absurd, the nerf to chaos armor unnecessary, and the “rework to scepter” laughable. So I am not overall happy with the balance patch, but that part I do agree with.

And as I also said a few times, the main thing which puts chrono in a bad position is the lack of nerf to other specs.

I just think that alacrity in its previous form was unhealthy

• for the game in general
• for mesmers, as if it had remained, we would have ended up being balanced around it, making it mandatory in everything the mesmer does.

Of course, the big flaw in my reasoning is that I assume a-net will end up doing the right thing…. I still have this weird (naive) hope a-net will end up bringing other elite specs in-line and fix some of our problems (like our lack of good condi cleanse outside of inspiration, our sustained damage, and many others).

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Silverkey.2078:

Please stop saying self-alacrity should remain 66%…

• self-alacrity was OP in PvP for bunker specs

Since bunker specs are pretty effectively dead with or without original alacrity, what’s your beef with saying it should remain 66%?
You’re taking it out of context again, as though the other nerfs didn’t happen.
You’ve been doing that a lot over this.

Bunker mesmer wouldn’t necessarily be dead after quickness res/stomp nerfs.
Yes, I’ve stated on this forum many times that that is THE biggest contribution bunker mes brought to PvP.
However, a tanky point holding bunker mes would still be possible with 66% alacrity and marauders/paladin’s amulet.

It would effectively function as a scrapper with a bit more condi cleanse.
But with class stacking being banned in competitive PvP, I could have possibly seen teams still taking bunker mesmer.
As currently, the most valuable picks I can see are:
Scrapper, Revenant, Necro, Guardian (medi)

I’m not sure what to slot in the 5th, since you could effectively run every one of those picks I’ve said, in kitten near any role.
Far pressure? Mid team fight? Home bunker?
Those classes are capable of covering all of those, although the rev is likely better in mid/pressuring far.

A +1 thief seems obvious, but guardian is still a good pick against thieves. And I’m not sure how thief vs rev stacks up.

I think scrapper beats thief. Too much sustain.

If a tanky chrono bunker were still viable, I’d likely pick it over a thief, and just hold mid & home. There’s enough +1’ing power in that team comp anyway. As if any of those classes +1 you, you’re pretty much dead.

Om a related note, if alacrity stays as it is, then at the very least Flow of Time must be reverted to 1 second per illusion.

I’m not pleased with it remaining at 0.75s…

Humm interesting opinions in here, lets review the options given so far:

-Some says alacrity is fine its all other specs who needs nerfs (looking at balance patch seems Anet strong disagree). Lazy nerfs everywhere. Doubt they will nerf across the board.

-Other says alacrity 33% broke the balance its effect had in chrono since its design was made with 66% in mind and past nerfs(Flow of Time) already accounted that. With 33% nerf no compensation given. No personal 66% +shared 33%.(agreed on here but Anet had 2weeks feedback with this sugestion and no consideration was taken, so mostlikely will never happen)

-Chronobunker is mostly not a thing due to alacrity nerf but mainly via amulets/res/stomps/runes. If doubts still persisted, protection/resistance uptime were nerfed aswell as boon spam counters, lol.

-All agree alacrity sharing was the problem… So as i sugested i would gladly let it go for my own profession balance sake… My alacrity/chrono line would retain its balance and then we could fix important aspects of mesmer without hearing “but but you have a strong utility support to balance the things out” bs.

Guys, just saying…. I also respect you opinions.

These suggestions take Chrono in the wrong direction. Chrono should be about giving allies quickness and alacrity, not spamming it on themselves. That’s what caused Anet to delete mesmer in the first place

The reality is that they will probably not buff chronomancer damage if they remove alacrity. Mesmer had the lowest dps before HoT and they only relied on quickness from time warp. It will basically just turn into the same thing. Your dps will remain the same. You also will have more access to quickness through well of action, etc. However, other classes have more access to quickness as well. Heightened Focus, Fatal Crazy, Applied Force, Instinctive Reaction, Feel my Wrath, etc. Why would you want it to return to this way? Making a class rely on one boon is risky. All they would have to do is nerf quickness from 50% to 25% and ouch.

You probabily right. Lets enjoy the alacrity and quickness we have while it lasts… We eventually will see it go..

Silverkey.2078:

Please stop saying self-alacrity should remain 66%… The situation was:

• shared alacrity was OP in PvE
• self-alacrity was OP in PvP for bunker specs

Actually, many people in PvP even suggested to reduce the effectiveness of alacrity on self while keeping the shared alacrity as it was, because self alacrity was the only really OP part.

Yes, alacrity was strong on a bunker spec. You know what’s still decently strong even in the chaos that is unranked? Bunker Mesmer. You know why it’s only decently strong now? Because of the changes to quickness/slow, our boon up-time and the over-buffing of almost every other class. The Alacrity nerf really only negatively impacts all other Chrono specs from my experience… What a shame.

There were a myriad of ways to curtail the effectiveness of bunker Mesmer. One way was shaving the numbers on traits like AWTEW, Flow of Time and Echo of Memory. I would have even liked a shaving of 16%. This is what they did before which impressed me as it was indicative of careful balancing. They chose to demolish the entire trait line instead.

And even NOW it makes no sense why they didn’t compensate for the alacrity nerf by reducing the CDs of some of our longer utilities and skills like Wells of Recall, Eternity and Precognition (lol). Even Well of Action could be buffed a bit since the neutering of quickness/slow.

So no, I won’t stop saying that one solution is to split the effectiveness based on self and group, because that’s a simple and straightforward way of correcting a few issues among many…

MailMail.6534:

Silverkey.2078:

Please stop saying self-alacrity should remain 66%… The situation was:

• shared alacrity was OP in PvE
• self-alacrity was OP in PvP for bunker specs

Actually, many people in PvP even suggested to reduce the effectiveness of alacrity on self while keeping the shared alacrity as it was, because self alacrity was the only really OP part.

Yes, alacrity was strong on a bunker spec. You know what’s still decently strong even in the chaos that is unranked? Bunker Mesmer. You know why it’s only decently strong now? Because of the changes to quickness/slow, our boon up-time and the over-buffing of almost every other class. The Alacrity nerf really only negatively impacts all other Chrono specs from my experience… What a shame.

There were a myriad of ways to curtail the effectiveness of bunker Mesmer. One way was shaving the numbers on traits like AWTEW, Flow of Time and Echo of Memory. I would have even liked a shaving of 16%. This is what they did before which impressed me as it was indicative of careful balancing. They chose to demolish the entire trait line instead.

And even NOW it makes no sense why they didn’t compensate for the alacrity nerf by reducing the CDs of some of our longer utilities and skills like Wells of Recall, Eternity and Precognition (lol). Even Well of Action could be buffed a bit since the neutering of quickness/slow.

So no, I won’t stop saying that one solution is to split the effectiveness based on self and group, because that’s a simple and straightforward way of correcting a few issues among many…

Yes, there are many ways to fix chrono bunker without alacrity nerf.

The problem is that all of us have a different idea of “good balance”. For me, one element of “perfect balance” is that no traitline feels like a must almost regardless of the build. Alacrity is a boost to any build and in its previous state was so strong that with minimal investment, the chrono line was a big improvement. I think that alacrity should be something you build for in order to take fully advantage of it. This way, it can be strong in some builds (chronobunker/PvE) but not super effective in some others (power/condi shatter) and thus other traits or trait lines should be considered. And this is exactly where we stand now, and that makes me happy.

So instead of buffing alacrity and nerfing chronobunker, what about letting alacrity where it currently is and boosting our sustained damage? This way PvE and power shatter become more competitive, and this would be honestly a very healthy change for mesmers. This would increase build diversity, in particular by allowing bruiser builds.

I can see your point. However, I might fundamentally disagree with you based on the likely reality that Anet will always have elite specs be stronger than core specs. I know their biggest selling point of elite specs is that it’s a different way to play your favorite classes, but I’ve always felt like it was implied that they were stronger as well…

Hence the difference between a specialization such as Inspiration or Domination and that of an elite specialization such as Chronomancer.

Xstein.2187:

However, chronos are only brought into raids to give alacrity and quickness to allies.

General question:
Do you enjoy that situation?

As in, would you rather not touch existent Alacrity/Quickness sharing options because “We’re in the raid for this”? Because independent of what I think about Chronomancer, I think we need more group support options. It stands to reason then that given that, the existent ones need to be balanced (or well, they just were :P ) so that they don’t stand out too much.

What we’re mostly lacking is a viable and not stupid (read: not on-mantra-charge) way to group heal. Every class should have that option, even if Revs and Druids and Eles win out.
Another could be group projectile defense, but this is going to be iffy with the old Mimic removed. Still, we could become the answer to projectiles.
And then maybe boon-stripping-with-side-effects. Plenty can boon-strip, what if we can do it just as well and we produce something with those stripped boons?

We’d have 4 total support options then (well, 3 and 1 from Chrono), and that seems more balanced to me.

Carighan.6758:

Xstein.2187:

However, chronos are only brought into raids to give alacrity and quickness to allies.

General question:
Do you enjoy that situation?

As in, would you rather not touch existent Alacrity/Quickness sharing options because “We’re in the raid for this”? Because independent of what I think about Chronomancer, I think we need more group support options. It stands to reason then that given that, the existent ones need to be balanced (or well, they just were :P ) so that they don’t stand out too much.

What we’re mostly lacking is a viable and not stupid (read: not on-mantra-charge) way to group heal. Every class should have that option, even if Revs and Druids and Eles win out.
Another could be group projectile defense, but this is going to be iffy with the old Mimic removed. Still, we could become the answer to projectiles.
And then maybe boon-stripping-with-side-effects. Plenty can boon-strip, what if we can do it just as well and we produce something with those stripped boons?

We’d have 4 total support options then (well, 3 and 1 from Chrono), and that seems more balanced to me.

Thats an Excellent question, with some very good points. This actually may take me awhile.

“Do you enjoy that situation?”
I enjoy playing in pve as the class that is best known for controlling time by dishing out alacrity and quickness to allies. Do I think this is what they should only be known for? Not necessarily. I’ll explain more below.

“As in, would you rather not touch existent Alacrity/Quickness sharing options because “We’re in the raid for this”?"
Short answer No. Long answer. I think that alacrity should be touched. I believe that it is slightly too powerful in raids and it is slightly too powerful with the previous bunker build. However, I do think they nerfed alacrity too hard. What I would do is buff it to 50% and change the cool downs of a few key skills to compensate. However, I also think it should be exceptionally powerful compared to the effects of other classes because mesmer do not have a competitive sustained dps, never will (mainly for pvp reasons), and I believe that this is the niche that chronos are suppose to fill.
You see, my ideal situation would be that every class has a special niche that they must fill because they are best at it and needed for that specific attribute. In fact, it would be awesome if not only classes followed this rule, but specialization vs base classes as well. However, this will never happen. Berserker should be known for might, Chrono should be known for alacrity and quickness, Reapers should be known for chill, Druids are known for healing, etc.
For me, the best situation for a raid would be that at the start, you need one of every class to fill their niche. This also means that no class should step on the toes of warrior, no class should step on the toes of Druid, etc. Having this type of diversity in your raid group should be optimal to the point where it is impossible to complete the raid if you have 5 engis or 5 dragon hunters etc. However, after the raid goes on for awhile. Lets say the monster flies up into the air. At this time, the raid group should have X amount of seconds to change their build and weapons before a new phase starts. If you don’t get your build changed in time, too bad. You need to know your traits better and what your class is capable of. For example, the first phase you may need to be a straight up support chrono, for the second phase the monster may throw out projectiles from many different location. Therefore, you may need to switch to a reflection build before the creature lands again. There is no doubt in my mind that chronos could be known for reflecting as well. However, the problem is that anet has never created a raid or new fractal that has really pushed chrono to need to do this. This class is capable of putting out 4 feedbacks, two temporal curtains, and 4 phantasmal wardens in a matter of seconds. Of course it could be known for reflects again. However, the problem is the content, not the class. Perhaps in phase 3 you will need to switch to a buncky build where you need to support allies with heals or stealth yourself through the encounter. Currently, I know that the mesmer’s ability to support allies with heals is not very strong compared to many other classes. However, I don’t know exactly how weak or strong it is compared to all the other classes. Therefore, it could perhaps be buffed. However, I don’t think it should be buffed to the point where it steps on the toes of druids or eles. It should only be needed during specific phases when one druid and one ele is not enough. I believe future dungeons and raids should be the same way. Except you are not restricted by a time limit to change your traits. This way, every class is capable and needs to do multiple roles. However, each class is also brought for a specific reason or niche that means you have to bring one of each class. Now the above circumstance is not realistic right now and a ton of changes and additions are needed before it is realistic, including the addition of new niches or abilities.

“Because independent of what I think about Chronomancer, I think we need more group support options. It stands to reason then that given that, the existent ones need to be balanced (or well, they just were :P ) so that they don’t stand out too much”.

Yes, I agree that there needs to be more support options, not just for chronomancer, but for other classes as well. However, I do not think this more support should necessarily be in the game already, could be something completely new. However, as for the current support option, mesmer/chrono also has the ability to put on a ton of vulnerability, remove boons, reflect, grant not only healing but invulnerability/distortion to allies as well (yes, this may be one of the reasons chronos healing on allies is not very high. With inspiring distortion and phantasmal defender, you can also protect allies indirectly), and stealth. As well as you are able to copy many “random” boons on you to allies." In fact there was one build many mesmers were taking about (either before or early in HoT release, can’t remember) where you did try to support allies with more of these other boons. However, I believe it was generally agreed on by the community that it wasn’t worth it just for the simple fact that many of those other boons are supported by other classes better. I don’t believe its because chrono sucks at support, its because many of those other boons are suppose to be the niches of other classes. So, I do not know if group healing should be buffed on mes. However, if it is buffed, I don’t think it should affect the devs decisions with alacrity because other classes not only are, but should be much better at group healing. Also, “so that they don’t stand out too much” is not a reason to buff or nerf anything. As I said, I think every class should have one thing or a couple of things that “stand out” and thats ok because thats what they should be known for. If they weren’t known for those features, they probably wouldn’t be in the meta.

“What we’re mostly lacking is a viable and not stupid (read: not on-mantra-charge) way to group heal. Every class should have that option, even if Revs and Druids and Eles win out.
Another could be group projectile defense, but this is going to be iffy with the old Mimic removed. Still, we could become the answer to projectiles.”

I explained this better above. Basically, my answer is that I don’t necessarily agree.

“And then maybe boon-stripping-with-side-effects. Plenty can boon-strip, what if we can do it just as well and we produce something with those stripped boons?”

I agree, we should be able to boon strip just as well as other classes, without the current huge nerf to alacrity.

First of all separate the class patches from the contents PvE/PvP/WvW
It can not be that a class buff/nerf on PvP content has the same effect on PvE content.