If you are like me, you look at our trait trees and ponder “What the hell does <x> trait have to do with <y> trait line?” So I went through and tried to tidy it up a bit by moving some stuff around. Let me know what you think or some suggestions of your own.
My suggestions are as follows:
Signets:
Traits (Minor):
Traits (Major):
I disagree with you on Illusionary Elasticity. The possible reason why it’s in illusions might be because some of the illusions you summon have a bounce effect (makes a bleeding/confusion staff and trident build even possible). That’s only if your illusions also get the trait which may or may not be the case.
Other than that, these suggestions are probably the most logical and practical suggestions I’ve seen. Bravo! I honestly hope Arena Net considers them.
I believe the elasticity doesn’t work on illusions
I think Wastrel’s fits in domination because there’s a lot of focus on vulnerability and controlling your target. Your signet changes make sense to me, but the rest could be a matter of opinion.
I don’t think Illusionary Elasticity works on illusions. Only Greatsword and Staff, I believe.
Wastrel’s only works on stunned/dazed targets … that is why it is only a benefit with pistol. Pistol (5) → Pistol (4) combo is nice with it.
What I’m saying is that domination seems like quite a daze-oriented line: There’s two traits that apply specifically to daze and two more that apply to interruptions; your reasoning is the pistol, which is one of the weapons that can daze/stun, synergizes with dueling, but there’s only one dueling trait that applies to interruptions.
Wastrel’s Worry and Demise were domination skills as well so it’s probably partly a legacy thing.
What I’m saying is that domination seems like quite a daze-oriented line: There’s two traits that apply specifically to daze and two more that apply to interruptions; your reasoning is the pistol, which is one of the weapons that can daze/stun, synergizes with dueling, but there’s only one dueling trait that applies to interruptions.
Well Domination XII needs to be replaced, IMO … but that is beyond the scope of what I was going to bring up here. (I personally think all the “on interrupt” traits should be at least changed to “on block” if not outright replaced)
That said, it doesn’t matter the theme … but the application. It just doesn’t work in that trait line, especially at 25 points in the trait line.
I don’t think they planned any of the class trait lines to be 100% specialized into one thing.
Your change to the illusion line will severely weaken shatter builds, so no I don’t support this at all.
Well Domination XII needs to be replaced, IMO … but that is beyond the scope of what I was going to bring up here. (I personally think all the “on interrupt” traits should be at least changed to “on block” if not outright replaced)
That said, it doesn’t matter the theme … but the application. It just doesn’t work in that trait line, especially at 25 points in the trait line.
The problem is that’s just your opinion on the Confounding Suggestions, which makes it no longer clear cut that Wastrel’s Punishment is out of place… I thought that was the intention of your thread. As I indicated, the interrupt traits are clearly there as a complement to daze; I don’t know how you can discard those without making daze much less viable.
So including Wastrel’s, Confounding is just one out of five daze-oriented traits available in that line. I’m not sure how you can say the theme doesn’t matter when you’re saying you want to alter traits to fit trait lines.
(edited by Bertrand.3057)
SoggyFrog:
Is daze viable to begin with, let alone “less viable” with the change. The only source of daze mesmer have is Pistol, Mantra of Distraction, and Diversion. Anyone you ever heard of use the Mantra or Diversion? Only time I have seen anyone use Manra of Distraction is when they are using Dueling XI: Empowering Mantras (back in alpha) which is futher evidence that it should be moved :p
Levetty:
In what way does any change “severely weaken” shatter builds? I spent 20 minutes trying to figure out a shatter build that would even be affected by these changes. Let alone “severely”.
Counter blade and chaos storm also produce daze. Sure, there aren’t many sources of daze and mantras aren’t use by most players, so I’m still uncertain how viable it is overall. I’ve experimented with builds but I don’t run dungeons or play sPvP a lot, those environments seem to be the ones where that kind of control is necessary.
That said, Wastrel’s fits within the scheme of what has been designed, and unless you are proposing an overhaul of the class you don’t have a good case for moving it. If your issue is with the lack of viability of daze, then you should advocate making it stronger. It’s potentially a great and mostly unique option available to mesmers.
Yes, I too would like to have everything that best synergizes with dealing heavy damage in the crit line and put all that baby utility stuff into its very own ghetto with a big “don’t put points here if you aren’t a puny torch user” sign stamped onto it.
The trait lines are balanced so that you have to make compromises and also so that no trait line is completely pointless whatever build you use. Making it all thematically correct without wrecking the balance would require remaking half the skills.
These suggestions are pretty decent. I run a 20/20/0/0/30 shatter build, and while I don’t like the idea of losing shattered strength, confusing combatants is a reasonable replacement.
Changes to Illusion Bubbles
1. Identifying Logo on bubble .. Simply a mini version of the spell that caused the clone to come about.
2. Selecting and deselecting illusions for shatters. Every time you summon an illusion it would be auto refreshed to shatter however if you would like to unselect a illusion for shatter you can simply click the bubble it was summoned on ( assuming the above change was also done ) and the pink ring around it would become greyed out and would live out its life.
Changes on Tool tips involving illusions
Updating the tooltips to tell you how much damage a clone will do
Ex. Mirror Blade
(Description)
Damage : XXX
Might (10s) : xx power, xx condition damage
Vulnerability(3s) : 3% Inc. Damage
Clone Damage : xx
Number of Bounce : 3
Combo Finisher : Physical Projectile
Range: 1,200
I’m surprised you didn’t address Signet of Inspiration. My suggestion for it would be simple: Remove swiftness from the potential buffs granted and add a passive 10% move speed buff, much like signets and traits available to other classes. This makes the skill do exactly what people used it for when it’s passive procced out of combat (i.e. accelerate travel).
Secondly, the trait Illusionists Celerity needs something done. I propose making it’s effects inherent (reduce all illusion CD by 20%) and replace it with something more optional. As is, this trait is overpowered compared to the others. It affects more of our skills than any other trait, affects both utilities and weapon skills (of every weapon even), and helps every possible Mesmer build. There is no reason not to go 5 in Illusions. In fact, it’s almost as if we are REQUIRED to invest 5 into illusions, this trait is just that good. The reason I suggest making it’s effects inherent rather than just removing it is that (most of) the current cooldowns are balanced around having this trait available, and without it are generally too long, especially for PvE trash fights.
Signet of Inspiration : This also should be updated to apply the buffs even when you are out of combat … I would love for even the chance to proc. Swiftness out of combat.
The problem with it activating out of combat is that the audio cues get a bit ridiculous, as you got a buff every ten seconds. I’m pretty sure that’s the main reason they changed it from it’s original functionality. The only thing I really want (as most people seem to) is the move speed while out of combat back, which my suggestion solves.
Arkk, I agree on Illusionist’s Celerity, there’s few if any situations in which that traits isn’t necessary because it affects what mesmers do across the board. If it is cut, I think it’s fair that not all illusion skills have their cooldowns automatically cut by 20%, that needs to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis according to the balance of each skill.
Personally, I’ve found that every build wants to run the 5 point passive Illusionist’s Celerity, and this leads to a 5 point detriment to our allotted 70 points. Removing it and baseline reduction of the illusion generating abilities seems natural, what to put in it’s place is the question.
I feel a daze on clone death could be a good fit in that spot with a 15 second internal CD with a 1 second daze. Enough to disrupt melee range channeled AoEs but not often enough to make us unkillable to melee.
Yes, I too would like to have everything that best synergizes with dealing heavy damage in the crit line and put all that baby utility stuff into its very own ghetto with a big “don’t put points here if you aren’t a puny torch user” sign stamped onto it.
The trait lines are balanced so that you have to make compromises and also so that no trait line is completely pointless whatever build you use. Making it all thematically correct without wrecking the balance would require remaking half the skills.
There is already a “don’t put points here if you aren’t a puny torch user” trait line, all splitting the traits across multiple lines means is that you have a lot more wasted points just to make something you want to do better. What good is crit on a condition build? What good is condition damage on a power/crit build? Compromise only works when two parties get what they want, although not at the rate or levels they wanted them. If we are party one, who is party two? To whom are we compromising and what are they giving up?
Personally I don’t get what you’re after. The trait lines don’t need a major redesign, they need bugs fixed.
Also your take on what trait lines are about has more to do with your preference than, well, what they are about.
Illusion line isn’t all about confusion, a lot of it is shatters. Which trait line reduced shatter recharge? Shattered might is fine where it is.
Domination is not all about might. A lot of those traits deal with daze and stun. Wastrel’s punishment is a natural fit. And what has it got to do with dueling. One weapon skill on an offhand you can trait with dueling – why not propose moving pistol to domination? (Not that it really makes sense either.)
I’m not going to argue each change you suggested, I think I made my point. It would be a bad idea to move every trait that deals with x into line y. That creates more of a need for everyone to build the same, not less. If you want to tank you MUST use this line. It would also mean we are stuck having only three selectable traits for that theme. Having some traits in the “wrong” tree gives you more flexibility in builds.
As an example look what you can do with a 20/0/0/20/30 build. Confusion lasts longer, glamour skills last longer, recharge faster, cause blindness on cast, which causes confusion, and more confusion when enemies enter or leave the field. If all confusion skills belong in Illusion, that build isn’t possible. By having confusion traits different places, more builds are possible. (Compare to 30 dueling 30 illusions – that works too.)
You’re entitled to your opinion, mine is that I prefer Anet’s trait design to yours.
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.