Guild Wars 2

Hyo, to be honest, i find the Greatsword 1 Skill of Mesmers is lacking in everything. The most fun about a Greatsword for me is, actual swinging it. A mesmer barely does that and it feels saddening. Furthermore, the Greatsword of a Mesmer does not cleave, which is a bit weird because thats what a Greatsword is supposed to be, a cleaving monster.

I know that a Mesmer uses his Gs1 as a ray-beam and it is therefore completely different from the classic Gs, but that is also the point, where i feel “they got it all wrong”. A Mesmer is most powerful in close combat where he can use his shatters, that even counts for condition builds in some kinda way, even if its not that much of an impact there.

So my Suggestion would be to change the GS1 to a cleaving thing, with a animation of GS5, but you would actually throw out smaller waves of it and swing your GS while doing so, like everyone else. You could lower the Range for that or make it even Melee. I would be fine with that. Sure i know it is not everybodys liking, its just my suggestion. One thing that reall bothers me though, is the Damage multiplier on GS1. I find these kind of things very annoying and really useless, because like i said, i feel like Memser is strongest in close combat and iam using my 1200 range barely at all.

I would like to know what you would think about this. Sure i know the chance of this ever get to happen is like 0,1%. NVm that.

Amaya.1483:

Hyo, to be honest, i find the Greatsword 1 Skill of Mesmers is lacking in everything. The most fun about a Greatsword for me is, actual swinging it. A mesmer barely does that and it feels saddening. Furthermore, the Greatsword of a Mesmer does not cleave, which is a bit weird because thats what a Greatsword is supposed to be, a cleaving monster.

I know that a Mesmer uses his Gs1 as a ray-beam and it is therefore completely different from the classic Gs, but that is also the point, where i feel “they got it all wrong”. A Mesmer is most powerful in close combat where he can use his shatters, that even counts for condition builds in some kinda way, even if its not that much of an impact there.

So my Suggestion would be to change the GS1 to a cleaving thing, with a animation of GS5, but you would actually throw out smaller waves of it and swing your GS while doing so, like everyone else. You could lower the Range for that or make it even Melee. I would be fine with that. Sure i know it is not everybodys liking, its just my suggestion. One thing that reall bothers me though, is the Damage multiplier on GS1. I find these kind of things very annoying and really useless, because like i said, i feel like Memser is strongest in close combat and iam using my 1200 range barely at all.

I would like to know what you would think about this. Sure i know the chance of this ever get to happen is like 0,1%. NVm that.

I disagree with your suggestion, and I disagree with your premise that mesmer greatsword should feel in any way, shape or form like greatsword on other classes.

I agree with your premise that GS1 sucks.
As a mesmer weapon, Greatsword still rewards close-up play.
GS5 has to be close, and it doesn’t knockback enough to bump up the GS1 distance even a full category (unlike ranger knockback).
GS2 is all about getting that extra bounce (and the might from the personal bounces), so again that’s close-up play.
That leaves GS3 and the iZerker, which are both range-agnostic (there’s no difference whether you use them close or far).
And then shatters come in and trump everything. Mesmers want to be close.

I like the raybeam. I like the range on the raybeam.
What I don’t like is the damage on the raybeam scaling with range. It caps the potential damage of GS1 at its maximum, else it could be overpowered (except it still does dramatically less damage than other ranged AAs), but mesmers don’t want to be out that far for long. But, what’s the point of an auto-attack that you only want to use once in a fight? That’s what secondary skills are for, not auto-attacks.

Mesmers are not rangers. We don’t have a bear that can run up and tank while we chill at the back firing arrows. We don’t have arrow barrages on GS that work just as well from range as up close. While range scaling may be okay for Rangers, it’s not okay for us.

Remove the range scaling on GS1. Make GS1 cleave in an area, not a line. That’s all that needs to be done, imo.

The greatsword already has reliable methods of aoe damage with the phantasm, mindstab; and to a lesser extent, mirror blade.

For me, the benefit of the current greatsword auto attack is its ability to apply ‘on critical’ abilities; its damage is extremely secondary. Three attacks in rapid succession allows reliable application of lifesteal (with food), vigor, bleeds, and slow (with the expansion).

It’s still not clear how much of a factor break-bars will play in Heart of Thorns, but if they become more important the Greatsword may be an important tool for chipping away at them.

Hiemdal.4367:

The greatsword already has reliable methods of aoe damage with the phantasm, mindstab; and to a lesser extent, mirror blade.

For me, the benefit of the current greatsword auto attack is its ability to apply ‘on critical’ abilities; its damage is extremely secondary. Three attacks in rapid succession allows reliable application of lifesteal (with food), vigor, bleeds, and slow (with the expansion).

It’s still not clear how much of a factor break-bars will play in Heart of Thorns, but if they become more important the Greatsword may be an important tool for chipping away at them.

1. They added an internal cooldown on stacking with Lost Time, so GS1 doesn’t really do much extra for adding slow anymore (more reliability, but with high crit chance and Danger Time, that wasn’t really a problem anyway). They did this because of GS1, btw. That’s probably not the only trait they’ve nerfed/avoided because of GS1 either (Confusing Combatants, anyone?).
It’s a liability more than a benefit.

2. Incidental effects like “oh, but it can proc on-crit stuff more!” is not a justification for terrible damage, because those things were never supposed to be the main event, and aren’t broadly applicable anyway (how many GS users will actually take Lost Time? Or lifesteal food? Or bleed sigils?), or are subject to the problem I mentioned in #1 (crit sigils have internal cooldowns, so the extra crits from GS1 are extremely underemphasized).

3. Bleed on crit is illusion-only without sigils.

4. Unlike other classes, mesmers don’t actually have many on-crit anything. We get vigor on crit. yayyy.

Making the GS cleave in an area, removing the damage scaling over range and atleast some kind of swing, would be more than enough to make me happy. I just want to see how kitten a GS is, thats MY point GS.

Amaya.1483:

atleast some kind of swing

I like the way it works now (point, hover and spin), I think it’s really cool.
I don’t want a swing :P

As long as the spin actually happens.

Nah, don’t like it.
We’re no brutes, I rather shoot lazors than be at melee getting my clothes all bloody.

I think GS overall is our most “complete” weapon. Every skill is good and they all make sense.
And mesmer is not really a close range class. Sure, at times you venture to close range for some shatter goodness, but the “anchor point” is mid range.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

4. Unlike other classes, mesmers don’t actually have many on-crit anything. We get vigor on crit. yayyy.

Then honestly, I’d rather have a rework to give us some on-crit abilities compared to complete rework of greatsword 1. Unless they overhaul our damage significantly, changing our ‘terrible damage’ to slightly better will still have us paling in comparison to most classes (I’m speaking from a pve standpoint only, my experience with spvp and wvw is extremely limited and I don’t feel confident discussing them in any way).

I would certainly take some tweaks though, perhaps removing the ‘damage with range’ qualifier and making it a set value, somewhere between the two extremes.

Noss.4105:

And mesmer is not really a close range class. Sure, at times you venture to close range for some shatter goodness, but the “anchor point” is mid range.

GS1 is an extreme long-range ability. So…it’s still not good, even at the range you think we belong at.

Maybe if enough people will respond to this, they may consider some changes..

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Noss.4105:

And mesmer is not really a close range class. Sure, at times you venture to close range for some shatter goodness, but the “anchor point” is mid range.

GS1 is an extreme long-range ability. So…it’s still not good, even at the range you think we belong at.

Best damage is at 900+, but that’s not always the optimal place to be. You’re not locked to melee range with MH sword either.

I like it as is… and wouldn’t change much about it.

The non-typical use of the weapon is appealing to me. I love that we channel through it and don’t just swing it around like everyone else. The damage on the auto is a little low, I’d agree to that.

I don’t mind the cleave-in-a-line that it does now, but would always welcome an on-target AoE radius instead. I tend to use the auto more for single target and damage to anyone in the line of focus as an added bonus.

Each skill brings something new to the table, making it a weapon that focuses on diversity rather than redundancy. I’d find it pretty boring if every skill was just a different damage number with a different cooldown.

I think we have staff and sword for our close-range weapon options. I like having a longer range option to complement them. Making it melee would bum me out and remove a lot of our viability at range.

Hiemdal.4367:

Then honestly, I’d rather have a rework to give us some on-crit abilities compared to complete rework of greatsword 1.

1. I’d be inclined to agree, but they’ve already proven that they are too scared of GS1 to do that. Confusing Combatants is just suspicion on our part, but Robert Gee explicitly called out Greatsword on the Lost Time nerf, and they even nerfed it more than just the icd (Anet’s usual cutting through the table instead of just the cheese approach, it seems). They’re too scared of how much benefit on GS1 would come from it to give us anything that could improve our damage on crit. But crit traits are nice, every other class has them, and 2 fundamental gear stats are based around them. It’s hardly fair. So they could keep shafting us…or they could rework GS1.
I already suggested once that they switch it to 1 strong hit instead of 3 weak ones. Doesn’t look like they noticed or cared.
In short, an ability with strong side benefits is only good if the developers are okay with us using that. Imagine if they gave us alacrity with Chronomancer, but then raised all our cooldowns by 40% so that it won’t be OP.
Then alacrity becomes a cost, not a benefit, because the devs won’t let it be powerful for the reasons that it’s supposed to be.
This is what GS1 has become: a cost, not a benefit, because the devs won’t let it be powerful for the reasons it’s supposed to be.
2. A rework of GS1 is not a rework of Greatsword. That’s serious hyperbole, right there.

Hiemdal.4367:

Unless they overhaul our damage significantly, changing our ‘terrible damage’ to slightly better will still have us paling in comparison to most classes

Better damage is better. No, the 10% buff to sword AA was not enough. But yes, we still wanted them to do it :P

Hiemdal.4367:

(I’m speaking from a pve standpoint only, my experience with spvp and wvw is extremely limited and I don’t feel confident discussing them in any way).

GS is so weak right now that it’s barely used in serious PvE.

Hiemdal.4367:

I would certainly take some tweaks though, perhaps removing the ‘damage with range’ qualifier and making it a set value, somewhere between the two extremes.

I’d argue that the math actually supports just making it the max value at all ranges. GS1 is remarkably weak, even at max range, even compared to other mesmer AA (which are themselves weak b/c of the phantasm thing).
This shouldn’t be surprising, I’m sure they balanced the damage based on the maximum damage output a mesmer could turn out with the weapon, which required sitting at max range. So they tuned down that max damage, apparently not really noticing that this made the closer-range damages absolutely garbage.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

I already suggested once that they switch it to 1 strong hit instead of 3 weak ones. Doesn’t look like they noticed or cared.

I’d be fine with one stronger hit as it would kill 2 birds with one stone – they could level the damage in the process bringing it more in line with other auto attacks, and it would open up more on-crit abilities without the knee-jerk ‘but what about the 3hit greatsword auto’ fears.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

GS is so weak right now that it’s barely used in serious PvE.

I use it in fractals, but typically only for places where I want to trait for perma-cripples: the Grawl fractal where the mobs knock npc’s into the lava is the chief culprit; it’s amazing how many-pick up groups don’t have the crowd control to handle the spawns. [/quote]

I had a conversation with a Mesmer fellow today, about the very same topic.

I suggest to rework GS one like this:
While having a target selected and using your auto attack, a none targetable, just visual effect phantasmal version of yourself spawns at the target, wich attacks when you do.
The attack however will be the same as any GS auto attack chain, just ranged, so yes, CLEAVE!

It sounds so weird I used my AWESOME PAINT SKILLS to visualize what I just said! BEHOLD!!! xD

Xyonon.3987:

I had a conversation with a Mesmer fellow today, about the very same topic.

I suggest to rework GS one like this:
While having a target selected and using your auto attack, a none targetable, just visual effect phantasmal version of yourself spawns at the target, wich attacks when you do.
The attack however will be the same as any GS auto attack chain, just ranged, so yes, CLEAVE!

It sounds so weird I used my AWESOME PAINT SKILLS to visualize what I just said! BEHOLD!!! xD

Yes please!

Epic paint skills, btw.

Xyonon.3987:

I had a conversation with a Mesmer fellow today, about the very same topic.

I suggest to rework GS one like this:
While having a target selected and using your auto attack, a none targetable, just visual effect phantasmal version of yourself spawns at the target, wich attacks when you do.
The attack however will be the same as any GS auto attack chain, just ranged, so yes, CLEAVE!

It sounds so weird I used my AWESOME PAINT SKILLS to visualize what I just said! BEHOLD!!! xD

Someone put this in a museum.

Xyonon.3987:

I had a conversation with a Mesmer fellow today, about the very same topic.

I suggest to rework GS one like this:
While having a target selected and using your auto attack, a none targetable, just visual effect phantasmal version of yourself spawns at the target, wich attacks when you do.
The attack however will be the same as any GS auto attack chain, just ranged, so yes, CLEAVE!

It sounds so weird I used my AWESOME PAINT SKILLS to visualize what I just said! BEHOLD!!! xD

Thats creating a lot of particle effects for just a AA. Maybe if it was just a phantasmal version of your greatsword swinging in tandem with you? It would also have to be a normal cleave close-up, and only activate the ‘phantasmal cleave’ at over 450~ range to prevent awkward overlaps in the animations. Otherwise, I really like the concept (and LOVE the drawing).

Mikkel.8427:

Xyonon.3987:

…

Thats creating a lot of particle effects for just a AA. Maybe if it was just a phantasmal version of your greatsword swinging in tandem with you? It would also have to be a normal cleave close-up, and only activate the ‘phantasmal cleave’ at over 450~ range to prevent awkward overlaps in the animations. Otherwise, I really like the concept (and LOVE the drawing).

That’s a pretty good idea, to just have a phantasmal sword. It would be nice indeed if it’d only proc at lets say 300-450 + range, wich kinda generates the strong long range attack, but in melee the “weak” mesmer has to attack on its own wich will generate the weak close range attack.

I found the GS1 in Mesmer is way better than Engineer Rife 1. Ranger LB1 need trait to hit multiple targets but by default in Mesmer. Guardian scepter 1 and Elementals staff 1 are very slow. As a long rang AA, Mesmer GS1 is not bad at all.

Doug Whisper.2465:

I found the GS1 in Mesmer is way better than Engineer Rife 1. Ranger LB1 need trait to hit multiple targets but by default in Mesmer. Guardian scepter 1 and Elementals staff 1 are very slow. As a long rang AA, Mesmer GS1 is not bad at all.

Many (if not most) of us dont think GS 1 is ‘bad’. Our primary problem with it stems from having watched traits get nerfed/removed because of how disproportionately well GS synergizes with them.

Uhhh objection! I think GS #1 is indeed bad. The only way to hit multiple targets with it is if they line up AND you manually target the farest with your mouse. Besides the damage of GS #1 may occur fast, but it’s WAAAAYY lower dps than all other ranged attacks the other professions have. The GS #1 is dps wise pretty on par with the scepter auto hit wich is famous for it’s terrible power damage. Don’t tell me you honestly like GS #1 and use it against a target at ~900 range and beleve your dps is over 3k …

I can’t remember whether my key bind is default or not. I press C to target the nearest enemy and press Tab to cycle through to the ones in the back. At the meantime I check their health bar so that I won’t waste the iberserker on something almost die.

I put sigil of frailty or strength on my GS to stack vulnerability or might. I have sigil of fire to get extra aoe.

AA on long range weapons always come with low dps. Guardian staff 1 can tag five targets but only at 600 range. Elementals fire staff 1 have aoe but very slow. The best one is Engineer mortar kit at 1500 range with aoe. But every thing on it is ground targeted and no AA. And it is an elite skill.

BTW, Mesmer GS 1 works on target beyond 1200 range but you need to manually press 1 to maintain it.

Xyonon.3987:

Uhhh objection! I think GS #1 is indeed bad. The only way to hit multiple targets with it is if they line up AND you manually target the farest with your mouse. Besides the damage of GS #1 may occur fast, but it’s WAAAAYY lower dps than all other ranged attacks the other professions have. The GS #1 is dps wise pretty on par with the scepter auto hit wich is famous for it’s terrible power damage. Don’t tell me you honestly like GS #1 and use it against a target at ~900 range and beleve your dps is over 3k …

The DPS on the AA isnt a problem with the GS, its a problem with mesmer. All of our AAs are not only low damage, but have extra (unnecessary) limitations to them.

The design of GS 1 is not all bad though.

1200 range
Instant
Can not be reflected
Can hit up to 3 targets with proper positioning

I’m not saying “ZOMG GS IS SOOPER AHSUM!”, but I do believe its one of our better weapons.

As far as Scepter is concerned… It has the worst AA of any weapon on any profession I’ve played to date. I hate its AA passionately, so I find it really hard to even begin comparing it to GS in any way.

Scepter is the single target ranged option, due the possibility of another offhand phantasm and it’s great spike / synergy with mop. With synergy I mean “yeaaaa you can interrupt your own auto attack with recharging mop!”. The design is fail but it’s better than the GS.

The GS is supposed to be the offensive ranged aoe option, wich it is not, since the aa just doesn’t quite fit.

My only gripe with the greatsword is the new noises that they introduced.

I hate the new sounds they introduced a while ago, I would love for a return of the original GS sounds.

Please bring back! PLEASE!! <3 XXX