Guild Wars 2

Base mesmer is awesome right now and I love the changes from the last patch, but there are still some issues that can be fixed.

Base power mesmer dps doesn’t really have any utilities that work to improve dps besides Mantra of Pain. The other 2 slots I fill with condition signets just because there is really nothing else.
*****I propose changing the utility Illusion of Life to a new skilled called Illusionary Reach. It will cause all weapon skills to have a 1200 range for 8 seconds on a 30 second cd. This could be used many ways in all game modes. It would compliment both main hand sword and mainhand Axe.*

In addition, the elite skills for base mesmers are horrible because of the incredibly long cooldowns.
*****I propose creating a new elite called Mantra: Power Word. It will cause all active illusions to attack the caster’s current target. It will have 2 charges just like all other mantras. And the recharge should be 5 seconds. It will solve the issue of mesmers having to resummon clones for each target. I know the axe#3 skill will do the same thing, but this skill will still see a lot of use for those not using Axe for whatever reason.*

Lastly, base mesmer has less cleave than other melee classes.
*****I propose making Swordsman phantasm hit 3 targets instead of 1, that are near the main target. The two targets that aren’t the main target could take 50% the damage of the main target. This would be incredibly useful for dealing with adds in PvE. Also, it could see use in PvP. I don’t think it’s too strong because swordsman has to be in melee to attack, and the chances of it surviving longer than a single attack, against 2 or more targets is extremely small.*

I believe these changes could greatly improve the efficiency and fun of playing base mesmer.

TLDR:

Change Illusion of Life to Illusion of Reach that makes all weapon skills have a reach of 1200 range for 8 seconds on 30 sec cd.

Create a Mantra elite that allows retargeting of all illusions on a 5 second cd, with 2 charges.

Make swordsman phantasm attack hit 3 targets instead of 1. The secondary targets will take 50% the damage of the primary target.

For the Utility Skill, i just wanted to clarify what I have in mind. When activated, the weapon skills will slice through the air to a target up to 1200 range away. I see this being an amazing utility with good situation use in both PvE and PvP for all weapon skills with a short range, notably mainhand sword and axe. Probably with chaos energy. Sorta like this picture.

http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Razor_Wind

Not going to happen. Enjoy the buffs to base mesmer while they last. They are a direct result of how Mirage elite is supposed to work.

I sincerely doubt there will be much goodness coming towards base mesmer at any point in time.

Maybe if retargeting is significant enough we might get some changes in general to our mechanic, that’s a huge maybe though.

I would suggest something, like removing Phantasms and just giving us more skills instead. It’d fix a lot more.

Base mesmer needs a forced retarget skill. Even if it is in the elite slot on a decently short CD (think 25-35 seconds), we do need one on core mesmer.

OriOri.8724:

Base mesmer needs a forced retarget skill. Even if it is in the elite slot on a decently short CD (think 25-35 seconds), we do need one on core mesmer.

I agree, there should be a illusion retargeting skill, and it could probably be on F5. This would only be for base mesmer and mirage obviously, not chrono.

If its an F skill then it would be a shatter, so there would be nothing to retarget to.

I was inspired by the Deadeye’s elite skill when I thought of the new elite for mesmer. The Deadeye’s elite removes reveal and places the deadeye back in stealth on a 5 second cd. Stealth is a core mechanic of thieves and having it be able to do that on a 5 second cd fixes a big issue for thieves as they no longer have to deal with reveal also.

Phantasms are a core mechanic for mesmer. Our biggest issue is currently not be able to change the target of our clones. It makes sense to me for it to also be an elite, like deadeyes, since it is such a strong skill to change the target. Also, it would compete with moa, and timewarp. All 3 utilities will still have a place. Lastly, making it a mantra makes so much sense with the new mantra 2 change system. A 5 second cd would be perfect for mesmers in every game mode. Anything longer than that and it purpose for having the skill will be missed.

I don’t think any of the changes I’ve suggested are far fetched or would break the class. What I really need is visibility. I may post the same thing on the reddit later so hopefully it can get the dev’s attention. I feel like they check the reddit far more than the official forums.

Jesus christ is that really deadeye’s elite? That’s so kittening cancerous. Revealed is the one counter to stealth, allowing them to just flat out remove revealed, and then also re-apply stealth in the same skill, is just broken.

The skill designers really need to stop with this constant one-upmanship. Stop introducing mechanics that circumvent balancing mechanics in the game. Removing revealed needs to go. 100% damage reduction from spellbreakers full counter needs to go. Anything else that is designed in a similar manner needs to be thrown out and re-designed

Hot Boy.7138:

I was inspired by the Deadeye’s elite skill when I thought of the new elite for mesmer. The Deadeye’s elite removes reveal and places the deadeye back in stealth on a 5 second cd. Stealth is a core mechanic of thieves and having it be able to do that on a 5 second cd fixes a big issue for thieves as they no longer have to deal with reveal also.

Phantasms are a core mechanic for mesmer. Our biggest issue is currently not be able to change the target of our clones. It makes sense to me for it to also be an elite, like deadeyes, since it is such a strong skill to change the target. Also, it would compete with moa, and timewarp. All 3 utilities will still have a place. Lastly, making it a mantra makes so much sense with the new mantra 2 change system. A 5 second cd would be perfect for mesmers in every game mode. Anything longer than that and it purpose for having the skill will be missed.

I don’t think any of the changes I’ve suggested are far fetched or would break the class. What I really need is visibility. I may post the same thing on the reddit later so hopefully it can get the dev’s attention. I feel like they check the reddit far more than the official forums.

kitten , 5 second cooldown!?! :o

I’m going to be scared to venture into wvw at all at this rate with all the Deadeyes that will be waiting to pot shot me.

Anyway I do like your idea of having a core elite Mantra skill that is an illusion retarget. It would make perfect sense.

It’s this skill: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld

OriOri.8724:

Jesus christ is that really deadeye’s elite? That’s so kittening cancerous. Revealed is the one counter to stealth, allowing them to just flat out remove revealed, and then also re-apply stealth in the same skill, is just broken.

The skill designers really need to stop with this constant one-upmanship. Stop introducing mechanics that circumvent balancing mechanics in the game. Removing revealed needs to go. 100% damage reduction from spellbreakers full counter needs to go. Anything else that is designed in a similar manner needs to be thrown out and re-designed

Welcome to Guild Wars 2, where by now no skill should have less than 4 total effects. Also the more spammable the better. Instead of any purity of design, we get barraged with effects and skills at all times.

Regarding Shadow Meld, the 5 second cooldown is probably an extra cooldown between the ammo uses, while the 45 second ammo recharge is the actual cooldown.

Carighan.6758:

It’s this skill: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld

OriOri.8724:

Jesus christ is that really deadeye’s elite? That’s so kittening cancerous. Revealed is the one counter to stealth, allowing them to just flat out remove revealed, and then also re-apply stealth in the same skill, is just broken.

The skill designers really need to stop with this constant one-upmanship. Stop introducing mechanics that circumvent balancing mechanics in the game. Removing revealed needs to go. 100% damage reduction from spellbreakers full counter needs to go. Anything else that is designed in a similar manner needs to be thrown out and re-designed

Welcome to Guild Wars 2, where by now no skill should have less than 4 total effects. Also the more spammable the better. Instead of any purity of design, we get barraged with effects and skills at all times.

I mean, having skills that do 4 things is definitely a problem. But its a smaller problem than what this is. This is none other than ignoring counters and balancing mechanics.

Stealth is a ridiculously powerful mechanic, and its pretty broken in GW2 in its current implementation. Revealed is the one and only counter to it. This allows deadeye to flat out ignore the one and only counter to stealth in this game.

Spellbreakers full counter is similar. At its core, its a blocking skill that procs various effects if you sucessfully block something. But the counter to blockable skills is unblockable skills. However, this ignores that counter by instead going with a flat 100% damage reduction, allowing it to also block damage from unblockable attacks. Yet its not invulnerability, so you can still contest nodes while using it.

This is pure cancerous design. The Anet skill and class design teams really need to figure out that adding new mechanics into the game purely to ignore counters and balancing mechanics is the quickest way to ruin a game’s balance forever. You can’t improve it by making it more and more complicated, you just can’t.

OriOri.8724:

Carighan.6758:

It’s this skill: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld

OriOri.8724:

Jesus christ is that really deadeye’s elite? That’s so kittening cancerous. Revealed is the one counter to stealth, allowing them to just flat out remove revealed, and then also re-apply stealth in the same skill, is just broken.

The skill designers really need to stop with this constant one-upmanship. Stop introducing mechanics that circumvent balancing mechanics in the game. Removing revealed needs to go. 100% damage reduction from spellbreakers full counter needs to go. Anything else that is designed in a similar manner needs to be thrown out and re-designed

Welcome to Guild Wars 2, where by now no skill should have less than 4 total effects. Also the more spammable the better. Instead of any purity of design, we get barraged with effects and skills at all times.

I mean, having skills that do 4 things is definitely a problem. But its a smaller problem than what this is. This is none other than ignoring counters and balancing mechanics.

Stealth is a ridiculously powerful mechanic, and its pretty broken in GW2 in its current implementation. Revealed is the one and only counter to it. This allows deadeye to flat out ignore the one and only counter to stealth in this game.

Spellbreakers full counter is similar. At its core, its a blocking skill that procs various effects if you sucessfully block something. But the counter to blockable skills is unblockable skills. However, this ignores that counter by instead going with a flat 100% damage reduction, allowing it to also block damage from unblockable attacks. Yet its not invulnerability, so you can still contest nodes while using it.

This is pure cancerous design. The Anet skill and class design teams really need to figure out that adding new mechanics into the game purely to ignore counters and balancing mechanics is the quickest way to ruin a game’s balance forever. You can’t improve it by making it more and more complicated, you just can’t.

Skills doing 4 things at the same time and being overloaded is exactly the problem and is a much bigger balancing issue than removal of counters. There is nothing wrong with allowing a class to overcome a counter mechanic so long as the cost is high enough, it’s all about risk vs reward and investment.

Engineers were supposed to be weak to conditions but the trait changes from 2.5 years ago essentially made it so they just pick up alchemy line and slot elixir C and they’re pretty much golden against anything that isn’t a necro or necro elite. In this case engineers don’t really have much of a cost to being able to deal with condition builds as they can run a traitline and utility to essentially render this vulnerability moot. In actuality they could probably just run this trait line and be generally fine vs condition builds considering how they will run an elixir or two anyway.

Super elixir with just the minor alchemical tinctures will remove 2 conditions which you can blast with acid bomb which removes another 1 from the acid bomb being an elixir and another for blasting a light field. While also doing considerable damage from the acid bomb and giving great skills to lower the enemies damage and healing via fumigate (which removes conditions from allies too).

Alright fellas, let’s not derail the thread please. I put a lot of thought into these suggestions and would like to keep things on topic.

Hot Boy.7138:

Alright fellas, let’s not derail the thread please. I put a lot of thought into these suggestions and would like to keep things on topic.

Alright.

Your suggestions are terrible because it’s trying to put a bandaid over a problem with the core design. You’re coming up with ways for the retargeting of illusions (read phantasms) but the reality is that had these been simple clones and played no part in a mesmers damage outside of shatter fodder and a byproduct of an attack we would have no need for it.

Phantasms as a mechanic just about worked at launch and for a year afterwards but haven’t been particularly good without there being a huge HP sponge and very little other targets to deal with. It also works counter productively to the class mechanic of shattering where you don’t want to shatter as you take a massive hit in damage for no real benefit given the HP of many enemies.

The answer isn’t to come up with several new skills to make an awkward mechanic work, the answer is to change the mechanics.

apharma.3741:

Hot Boy.7138:

Alright fellas, let’s not derail the thread please. I put a lot of thought into these suggestions and would like to keep things on topic.

Alright.

Your suggestions are terrible because it’s trying to put a bandaid over a problem with the core design. You’re coming up with ways for the retargeting of illusions (read phantasms) but the reality is that had these been simple clones and played no part in a mesmers damage outside of shatter fodder and a byproduct of an attack we would have no need for it.

Phantasms as a mechanic just about worked at launch and for a year afterwards but haven’t been particularly good without there being a huge HP sponge and very little other targets to deal with. It also works counter productively to the class mechanic of shattering where you don’t want to shatter as you take a massive hit in damage for no real benefit given the HP of many enemies.

The answer isn’t to come up with several new skills to make an awkward mechanic work, the answer is to change the mechanics.

I think Alpha has it fully expressed here. About the single best thing they could do, is decouple entirely phantasms and clones. Let them be entirely separate of each other. Have phantasms be target bound visible dots, while in contrast, the clones become bound to the mesmer and more akin to a kind of defensive mechanism. Of course, this is not going to happen until the balance team in their wisdom decides to give Thieves the ability to summon clones at some point…

I feel like the entire class at this point is just going to have specific issues fixed by elite specs, and core mes is enough to deal with core content up to maybe mid t4 fractals. (I dunno if fractals even counts as core content anymore? :/)

That being said I am all for having Illusionary Swordsman cleave, and changing Illusion of Life.

Well they did seriously help out Guardian Spirit Weapons, maybe we can get something similar with phantasms, where they are a one time summon that unleashes a big attack?

I disagree. I don’t think base mesmer illusions mechanic needs to change. In time, there may be an elite spec that doesn’t use illusions, similar to how rangers are getting the option to not use a pet with their new soulbeast spec. But illusions is a very fun mechanic. In pvp, shattering sees a lot of play because pvp is about burst. It makes sense that you don’t shatter as often in PvE because it’s more about sustained damage over a long fight. Also, in PvE, clones act as a diversion so the caster can attack without aggro for seconds at a time.

I wouldn’t want to see base mesmer’s core mechanics changed, just improved upon. Or the addition of utilities that can cover some weak areas, such as my ideas. That’s what utility and elite skills are for after all.

But you’re entitled to your opinion of course. I think clones are fun. And I feel like I’m living the dream being a frontline, melee, dual sword, master of illusions caster that can create shadow clones.

Hot Boy.7138:

I disagree. I don’t think base mesmer illusions mechanic needs to change. In time, there may be an elite spec that doesn’t use illusions, similar to how rangers are getting the option to not use a pet with their new soulbeast spec. But illusions is a very fun mechanic. In pvp, shattering sees a lot of play because pvp is about burst. It makes sense that you don’t shatter as often in PvE because it’s more about sustained damage over a long fight. Also, in PvE, clones act as a diversion so the caster can attack without aggro for seconds at a time.

I wouldn’t want to see base mesmer’s core mechanics changed, just improved upon. Or the addition of utilities that can cover some weak areas, such as my ideas. That’s what utility and elite skills are for after all.

But you’re entitled to your opinion of course. I think clones are fun. And I feel like I’m living the dream being a frontline, melee, dual sword, master of illusions caster that can create shadow clones.

We are complaining about clones, we are complaining about phantasms. Much better in my view that Phantasms become a once off skill that leaves behind a clone, which then gives us two clone generators in most of our weaponsets and lets us use shatter more often…

Zarathustra.1458:

Well they did seriously help out Guardian Spirit Weapons, maybe we can get something similar with phantasms, where they are a one time summon that unleashes a big attack?

Not the same thing. Guardian spirit weapons aren’t a part of the guardian class mechanic, yet phantasms are a fundamental part of mesmer’s mechanic. To change the phantasm skill category would require changing our mechanic on some level as well.

I think someone metioned it already, but probably the best (for lowest effort at any rate) solution would be to just de-couple phantasms from shatters. Make us use clones for shatters and then let the phantasms persist (and then give us a separate clone and phantasm cap).

OriOri.8724:

Carighan.6758:

It’s this skill: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld

OriOri.8724:

Jesus christ is that really deadeye’s elite? That’s so kittening cancerous. Revealed is the one counter to stealth, allowing them to just flat out remove revealed, and then also re-apply stealth in the same skill, is just broken.

The skill designers really need to stop with this constant one-upmanship. Stop introducing mechanics that circumvent balancing mechanics in the game. Removing revealed needs to go. 100% damage reduction from spellbreakers full counter needs to go. Anything else that is designed in a similar manner needs to be thrown out and re-designed

Welcome to Guild Wars 2, where by now no skill should have less than 4 total effects. Also the more spammable the better. Instead of any purity of design, we get barraged with effects and skills at all times.

I mean, having skills that do 4 things is definitely a problem. But its a smaller problem than what this is. This is none other than ignoring counters and balancing mechanics.

Stealth is a ridiculously powerful mechanic, and its pretty broken in GW2 in its current implementation. Revealed is the one and only counter to it. This allows deadeye to flat out ignore the one and only counter to stealth in this game.

Spellbreakers full counter is similar. At its core, its a blocking skill that procs various effects if you sucessfully block something. But the counter to blockable skills is unblockable skills. However, this ignores that counter by instead going with a flat 100% damage reduction, allowing it to also block damage from unblockable attacks. Yet its not invulnerability, so you can still contest nodes while using it.

This is pure cancerous design. The Anet skill and class design teams really need to figure out that adding new mechanics into the game purely to ignore counters and balancing mechanics is the quickest way to ruin a game’s balance forever. You can’t improve it by making it more and more complicated, you just can’t.

Do you think its worth looking through Azukas posts to see if he is complaining about this skill? You know because he wants a balanced PvP mode and doesn’t just hate Mesmer.

OriOri.8724:

If its an F skill then it would be a shatter, so there would be nothing to retarget to.

That’s like a ranger pre-HoT saying “If we get a new F-skill, it is going to be a pet skill”. Yet they got an F5 that is completely different.

I did forget about druids F5. But then again, the proposal was to place this on core mesmer, wasn’t it? It wouldn’t be an elite spec F skill, but a core mesmer one.

@Levetty – That guy doesn’t know what he is talking about, I don’t think its worth it to go through his post history for anything tbh

I think Azukas has a pretty good idea of what he talks about. I think he cares about the game and mesmer. And unlike a lot of people in this subforum, he isn’t pessimistic, miserable, and he doesn’t actually hate this game.

Well at least we got Illusionary Ambush for retargeting from Mirage, but it does suck with a long ass 30 second CD. Helps a lot in PvE.
I can see how strong it would be in PvP though, 1200 range blink that retargets your illusions and applies Mirage Cloak. Still it has to compete with Blink cause that skill is way too good.

Hot Boy.7138:

I think Azukas has a pretty good idea of what he talks about. I think he cares about the game and mesmer. And unlike a lot of people in this subforum, he isn’t pessimistic, miserable, and he doesn’t actually hate this game.

Way to go on the blame game only because people disagree with your suggestion.

You sure showed all of us miserable and pessimistic people. Then again 5 years of playing mesmer brings with it some expectations and realities which you have not embraced yet.

Next time, man up, accept that people will disagree with ideas and don’t throw a fit.

Cyninja.2954:

Hot Boy.7138:

I think Azukas has a pretty good idea of what he talks about. I think he cares about the game and mesmer. And unlike a lot of people in this subforum, he isn’t pessimistic, miserable, and he doesn’t actually hate this game.

Way to go on the blame game only because people disagree with your suggestion.

You sure showed all of us miserable and pessimistic people. Then again 5 years of playing mesmer brings with it some expectations and realities which you have not embraced yet.

Next time, man up, accept that people will disagree with ideas and don’t throw a fit.

This has nothing to do with this post or any of my ideas. Azukas didn’t even comment in this post. And I don’t care who disagree with my suggestions. It’s for the devs to see. I do enjoy the discussion but it doesn’t devalue me or my ideas because other players, with no more power than myself to make changes, doesn’t like them. I don’t know why you feel like I’ve placed blame. What is there to even place blame on? You know yourself better than I know you. I just see the side of you that you show on the forums. I didn’t call you or anyone else out. If you feel like you are pessimistic and miserable and that the shoe fits, then that has nothing to do with me. It has nothing to do with my ideas or this post. That’s a personal problem for you to deal with. Good luck with that.

Hot Boy.7138:

Cyninja.2954:

Hot Boy.7138:

I think Azukas has a pretty good idea of what he talks about. I think he cares about the game and mesmer. And unlike a lot of people in this subforum, he isn’t pessimistic, miserable, and he doesn’t actually hate this game.

Way to go on the blame game only because people disagree with your suggestion.

You sure showed all of us miserable and pessimistic people. Then again 5 years of playing mesmer brings with it some expectations and realities which you have not embraced yet.

Next time, man up, accept that people will disagree with ideas and don’t throw a fit.

This has nothing to do with this post or any of my ideas. Azukas didn’t even comment in this post. And I don’t care who disagree with my suggestions. It’s for the devs to see. I do enjoy the discussion but it doesn’t devalue me or my ideas because other players, with no more power than myself to make changes, doesn’t like them. I don’t know why you feel like I’ve placed blame. What is there to even place blame on? You know yourself better than I know you. I just see the side of you that you show on the forums. I didn’t call you or anyone else out. If you feel like you are pessimistic and miserable and that the shoe fits, then that has nothing to do with me. It has nothing to do with my ideas or this post. That’s a personal problem for you to deal with. Good luck with that.

Yes because the devs pay attention to the official forums. That is a good one.

Still salty that not 1 person came joyfully agreeing to your idea?

I’ve said my peace at the very top. All the love base mesmer has and/or will see is based on the current and future elite specialisations.

Hot Boy.7138:

I don’t know why you feel like I’ve placed blame. What is there to even place blame on?

Sure, read your last reply just above this one, here let me link it for you:

Hot Boy.7138:

I think Azukas has a pretty good idea of what he talks about. I think he cares about the game and mesmer. And unlike a lot of people in this subforum, he isn’t pessimistic, miserable, and he doesn’t actually hate this game.

You are insulting and calling every single contributor to this subforum miserable. Since the amount of active contributors is less than 10-15 it’s quite clear who your insult is targeting.

Hot Boy.7138:

I think Azukas has a pretty good idea of what he talks about. I think he cares about the game and mesmer. And unlike a lot of people in this subforum, he isn’t pessimistic, miserable, and he doesn’t actually hate this game.

Lol.

As far as your suggestions go, I told you exactly why it was bad. Clones being target bound isn’t an issue because they’re very disposable or should be and most clone summon skills are on short cool downs. The issue is that phantasms do a significant part of mesmer dps, about half of it and are target bound this presents the following problems:

Low hp trash waves render phantasms useless as they spawn and die a few seconds later and having cool downs of 12-20s.

When bosses disappear or go invuln you lose damage as they either retarget or if the boss moves too far away they just disappear.

If you get moved away from the boss too far then they disappear.

They have no cleave except berserker and warden, making adds or mini boss type mechanics poor.

You have to spawn 3 of 1 type of phantasm to start doing the maximum damage, this takes time that other classes don’t have as a drawback.

Phantasms have no spike so this is all just a level dps mostly and no MW won’t spike hard enough during burn windows, see KC for this.

Phantasms being half your sustained damage gives opponents far more control over your damage than you do in competitive game modes.

There’s other issues I’m sure other players will mention however above is some reasons why phantasms are a poor mechanic as they make up a substantial part of a mesmer’s damage. You’re trying to force a mechanic to work (like ANet is doing) with your changes instead of doing the sensible thing and realising the mechanic is flawed from the get go and changing it.

You should not be developing skills and utilities to get around mechanics that don’t work very well in any game mode, this is at its core incredibly poor game design. Even more so that it’s tied to a core aspect of a class, you could argue it’s fine as an elite spec if the options and play style was completely optional however it isn’t, it affects the entire class from top to bottom.

Also Azukas has no idea what he’s talking about at all when it comes to dps.