Guild Wars 2

I did not write this nor do I take any credit, but this person sure knows what he/she is talking about. I would love to see Phantasms changed like this as it would make mesmers alot more fun to play.

source: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback:User/Guild_Wars_3_perhaps/Mesmer%27s_Phantasm_Reboot

This suggestion started as a discussion response to Mcscamper’s Rethinking Phantasms feedback post. I give full credit to Mcscamper for serving as the source of inspiration for my own thoughts on redesigning this mechanic. Might want to read Mcscamper’s post first for some background before continuing here. Also, the discussion tab here copies over the contents of Mcscamper’s discussion tab relative to comments made about my input on that page. Lastly, the discussion tab delves into the nitty-gritty of how to program the suggested changes; much of which already exists in one form or another in the current iteration of the game.

I like the overall tone of this feedback suggesting that Phantasms should be something more than a powered-up clone. I’m also in agreement that many of the Mesmer mechanics are not quite “there”, yet. I don’t attribute this to bad design, as obviously much care and thought has gone into this profession. Being a master of psychological manipulation, it’s a very tough class to get just “right” while maintaining effectiveness and balance with the other professions. Especially within the limits of a game world where so much of the interaction and feedback with that world is purely visual. How does one convey confusion and misdirection, for example, under such limitations? A tall order, indeed.

One thought I have with regards to Phantasms is to return to their roots. Per the wiki, they are desribed as a “…mind trick…[which] will only attack the target upon which they were summoned…[and] can only exist for as long as that target is alive…”. During developer interviews and panel discussions, I’ve also heard illusions described as existing only in the mind of their target. Taken as a whole, this implies the Phantasm is not real; it’s an hallucination of the Mesmer’s target.

To make this manifest in the game, Phantasms should only appear to their target and the Mesmer who cast it; no other players can see the Phantasm. In a PvP scenario, this would certainly up the psychological tension; if a player can see a Phantasm, they know it’s coming for them alone, no one else can see it, and no one else can help them defeat it (directly, anyway; more on that below). The Mesmer’s target is now wrestling with their own personal demon. The target foe is still free to attack their Phantasm and inflict damage on it, however.

This also has a carry-over effect of sowing discord and confusion among the target’s allies as they may witness the target break off from the current combat while swinging at thin air or running from the fight for no apparent reason. To avoid the target’s allies mistaking this behavior as leeching/non-participation in the fight, players afflicted with a Phantasm will be marked with an icon similar to the current condition and effect icons or have some sinister, swirling, magenta, aura writhing above their head indicating they are in the throws of battling a Phantasm (an animated version of the Luxon Ether Nightmare icon comes to mind). The difference being that a Phantasm is not a removable condition; the icon or aura is simply there to inform allies why their friend is acting strangely as well as allow the Mesmer to track which foe(s) have been targeted by a Phantasm.

To prevent Phantasms from becoming too overpowered as a result of being immune to targeting by anyone other than their intended target, add the following limiters to the Phantasm mechanic:

A Mesmer may only cast one Phantasm at a time. Casting a new Phantasm shatters the current one (with the possibility of said shatter causing some effect such as damage or confusion to the target). This now gives the Mesmer control over when and where to shatter their Phantasm, addressing one of the concerns raised by Mcscamper.

PART2:

OR

A Mesmer may cast more than one Phantasm at a time but no more than one Phantasm per target and no more than three maximum; consistent with the current limitation on illusions. Casting a new Phantasm on a target already haunted by one shatters the previous Phantasm (with the possibility of said shatter causing some effect such as damage or confusion to the target).

Regardless of which of the two limiter scenarios above are chosen, Phantasms will take damage if they are within any enemy’s AoE, weapon striking distance, or projectile path. Though they can not be seen, let alone targeted, by anyone other than their target foe, that foe can use positioning to lure a Phantasm into an AoE, weapon’s striking range, or projectile’s path.

This may appear to run counter to my earlier suggestion that Phantasms exist only in the mind of the target. This begs the question of how is a psychological manifestation taking damage from a “real” [game] world effect. The answer is – though the Phantasm exists only in the target’s mind – it is still subject to the rules that govern that mind. Since the target knows “real” world spell and weapon effects cause damage, this damage also exists in their “mental” world and can be used to harm the mental Phantasm. Phantasms will not retaliate against a player who is not their target; even when taking damage from those other players. They exist to harm their original target and only their original target.

Alternately, if you really want to put a deep psychological spin on this mechanic (which is appropriate in any discussion of the Mesmer), make it so any damage the target receives other than damage from the Phantasm, will harm the Phantasm, as well. Now the player plagued by a Phantasm has to make a choice between the lesser of two evils; battle the Phantasm alone OR intentionally put themselves in harm’s way in an effort to inflict damage upon the Phantasm (and hope the Phantasm dies before they do). Now that’s Mesmer-y!

The third option is the Phantasm will take damage from both sources; damage from the target’s allies’ AoEs, weapons, and projectiles and any damage the target receives. This damage would apply regardless of source; for example, the target could jump off a cliff to damage themself and – by extension – their Phantasm, as well.

If the Mesmer is defeated – and possibly even if merely downed – the Phantasm dissipates.

Perhaps add an additional limiter that if the target is stunned or dazed, their Phantasm will dissipate. As the Phantasm exists only in the mind of the target, a daze or stun causes a “brain reset” which effectively dismisses the Phantasm. This forces the Mesmer to choose one or the other; summon a Phantasm or daze/stun the target, but not both.

Yet another limiter would be to turn the Phantasm skills into chains. The first cast of a Phantasm skill will cast a Phantasm on a foe. The icon now turns into a skill for shattering that specific Phantasm. It would work similar to the Necromancer’s minion skills where the first cast summons the minion and the second cast destroys the minion (or causes some secondary effect).

This would further help limit the number of Phantasms running around on the battlefield while at the same time granting the Mesmer the ability to choose exactly which Phantasm they wish to shatter and/or which effect they want to cause with their shatter. Doing so separates the clones from the Phantasms. The clones become the illusions effected en masse by the profession-specific F1 – F4 keys, while the Phantasms become a more narrowly targeted and more finely controlled form of shatter.

If the Mesmer casts a new Phantasm on a target currently being haunted by a Phantasm, it’s then open to debate whether the current Phantasm will shatter as if it’s secondary chain skill had been activated or whether it will simply dissipate and be replaced by the new Phantasm. In all cases, the recharge of a Phantasm skill doesn’t begin until the Phantasm has been shattered by the secondary chain skill, it is replaced by a new Phantasm on the same target, or the Phantasm is destroyed by damage.

A Phantasm destroyed by any means other than an intentional shattering by the Mesmer (and possibly replacement by a new Phantasm as per above; if said replacement causes the previous Phantasm to shatter) will not shatter the Phantasm. It simply dissipates, causing no additional damage or condition. For example, a foe targeted by a Phantasm who manages to destroy it before the Mesmer manually shatters it will not suffer from whatever shatter effect was associated with that Phantasm.

PART 3:
Now for some changes to the Phantasm mechanic:

Phantasms will no longer be shattered by the Mesmer’s profession-specific skill set; only clones will be affected by the F1 – F4 keys. This addresses the issue Mcscamper indentified in their original post of a need for Phantasms to be something more than a powered-up clone. Especially since it appears Mesmers become more attached to their Phantasms than their clones. This suggestion helps futher differentiate the two.

Clones remain the means by which the Mesmer sows confusion amongst a group of enemies as well as using them as cannon fodder for the profession-specific F1 – F4 shatter mechanic. Phantasms, by contrast, become the means by which the Mesmer manipulates a lone opponent. At the same time, Phantasms are granted greater longevity (potentially) by sparing them from the global shatter. However, they may be shattered as I detailed in the limiter section, above. Only now, the Phantasm shatter is much more specific and under much finer control.

If Phantasms will be shattered when casting a new Phantasm, the shatter could have different effects depending on which Phantasm is being shattered or which Phantasm is being summoned to replace the current one. This gives the Mesmer some control over what effects they wish to cause to a target when they shatter a Phantasm, rather than a single effect common to all Phantasm shatters.

Phantasms can’t be outrun by their target. They exist in the mind of their target; there’s nothing there in the physical world to outrun. This could be accomplished by simply giving Phantasms the Blink skill minus a recharge and activating the instant the target begins to move out of attack range.

Open to debate whether or not Phantasms – under this proposed system – will count towards the Mesmer’s limit of maintaining a maximum of three illusions at a time. Probably best to maintain the limit to prevent the Mesmer from becoming overpowered. Now the Mesmer has to weigh the pros and cons of how many clones do they wish to summon versus how many Phantasms do they wish to summon (assuming the Mesmer is given the ability to summon more than one Phantasm at a time).

Furthermore, as clones and Phantasms now serve two distinct purposes (if this suggestion were implemented), this increases the depth of play of the Mesmer profession by forcing mutually exclusive choices on the Mesmer. Is the Mesmer attempting to sow confusion on a mob and/or gain themselves a reprieve from being targeted by their enemies? Then throw some clones out there. Is the Mesmer attempting to defeat a lone opponent or otherwise distract a powerful member of a mob or a boss? Unleash a Phantasm on them.

All the while, though, the Mesmer must remain mindful of how many clones and/or Phantasms are on the field of battle at any one time; constantly readjusting their numbers relative to one another to accomplish the Mesmer’s goal. Want to cast a Phantasm on the boss but the illusion cap has been reached? Time to shatter that clone mob to open up space for summoning a Phantasm. Coming under attack in PvP and need a distraction for a quick getaway? Time to shatter that Phantasm attacking the lone enemy waaaaaaay over there to free up space for summoning an additional clone to throw off the nearer enemies’ targeting.

This change is consistent with the overarching philosophy of intentionally limiting choices to achieve greater outcomes; we saw this precedent employed by ArenaNet in their redesign of the trait system.

Thank you for reading.

well this sounds quite nice for PvP… on PvE, Phantasms (iBerserker, iWarden) are our main source of AoE damage, if you take that away you are killing the phantasm focused build and that being the one i use and like the most i’d have to say no to these changes.

sorry.

think about it differently though. Don’t just say no because YOU personally have an AoE build with your phantasms. think about how much more interesting the entire class would becomes and how many more builds would become viable with these changes.

Right now the mesmer sucks at being a real illusionist. Mesmers simply feel like summoners that summon trash mobs instead of truly confusing and bringing chaos into battle.

This wouldn’t diversify the class it would hermoginise it into a single cookie cutter shatter spec with a phantasm pet, feels like an attempt to idiot proof the class.

I personally like that we have to balance control of illusions both in what is out and what is not with the situation at hand either according to or even against the spec we play. You know a class is good when their a multiple ways to play it successfully which it is currently the case. Apart from fixing all the bugs what the class needs tuning up in for me personally is confusion builds.

This is just my opinion though, so please dont be offended and feel the need to “convert me” because I’m disagreeing with that serious wall of text which I did take the time to read!

kagejuin.4713:

think about it differently though. Don’t just say no because YOU personally have an AoE build with your phantasms. think about how much more interesting the entire class would becomes and how many more builds would become viable with these changes.

Right now the mesmer sucks at being a real illusionist. Mesmers simply feel like summoners that summon trash mobs instead of truly confusing and bringing chaos into battle.

ok, but tell me, how am i supposed to do AoE damage then? mind stab? blade flurry(not sure on the name)? the thing is, I love to have so many options to play this class, and i think that aplying those changes(i agree that they sound cool and would fit really nice with the class) would efectively kill the Phantasm build for PvE.

When thinking about class changes you have to think about the class as a whole, because I do agree that for PvP these changes are viable and would be quite cool BUT! for PvE are completely horribad

sorry.

not per se, see the new phantasm idea removes the direct need for AoE as you can remove select targets from battle with phantasms. You pretty much drive them away from eachother since they end up fighting something on their own.

I wonder if you truly understood this build. I play mostly pvE but I would enjoy using phantasms more if it were like this.

A joy to read and a joy to think about.
I wish Mesmers were more like this.
I love the idea of sowing confusion and chaos on my enemies, and while I wasn’t disappointed with what I got I was left feeling a little empty. I felt more like a summoner than a Mesmer, especially with the way CTRL+T and the Map Completion Star work, pointing us out to the enemy instantly.
This is why I don’t want to complete the map, and as a result wont be getting a Legendary.

I am a Mesmer and only a Mesmer.

I know. Ctrl+T should be removed the instant we create a clone. -.-

Anet dropped the ball on the mesmer to be honest.

I would love for a update to make the mesmer like this, or wait for a mod in the future

To be honest, when they first released the Mesmer pre-views, I thought they would be like this. It actually surprised me that others could see my clones/phantasms when the game released

I know, it also confused me. If only mesmers worked like true illusionists

on can only dream for GW3?

Cool idea in concept, translates poorly to the game tho. Phantasms die far too easily as it is to be any sort of threat if they only have 1 target (normal pve mobs can 2-shot them with basic attacks). Currently we have limitations on phant’s anyway due to the 3-illusion cap and the shatter mechanic being non-discriminate.

it only translates poorly because I suppose you can’t imagine how it works.

Just make the cool downs for phantasms less. Illusionists will stay the go to class for 1v1 but only ina much smarter and logical way.

right now mesmers are just summoners