Guild Wars 2

While I think the mesmer forum managed to keep most of its comments in a few threads (compared to awful mess in necro forum for example), there are still a lot of messages to parse so I thought a summary would be welcome.

I will try to be exhaustive, but if I am not, please add messages on this thread and I will keep the summary updated. Also, while not intentional, I cannot promise I won’t have a slight biased toward my own idea, please excuse me for that.

General comment
First, I think most of us agree that the chronomancer was amazing. It seemed more polished than the other specializations and it really offers a very unique playstyle. It does have a lot of intricacies which means it has a fairly higher skill cap than the core mesmer (which is already not the most straightforward profession). So thumbs up Robert Gee and A-Net, this was a great week-end for me.

Now let’s go in more details.

Shield
The shield is very good as it stands. It definitely has its niche and is mostly well balanced. Possible suggestions/problems:

• The skill 5 has trouble when the moving field hits terrain, preventing it from returning.
• We have many block skills, but always a single block. Some people have suggested turning this in a “block everything during 2s and then cast phantasm”. May be a bit strong since we can block twice though.
• The phantasm seems to have a low attack rate, and being bounce-based, it is not very good in providing alacrity to a party (and 1s is really nothing). In general, party-wide alacrity is missing and non-shatter alacrity is weak. AOE instead of bounce and 2s alacrity would be a good start.
• Skill 4 is currently not affected by Illusionist’s Celerity/Persistence of Memory
• Skill 4 may have a too short CD.

Wells
Many people dislike them: a mesmer is usually very mobile, so staying on points for 3s to have the benefits seems impossible. On the contrary: I feel like wells do precisely what the elite specialization is meant to: promoting a different playstyle. I have myself enjoyed very much playing a bunker playstyle, and the wells were an essential component of it. Still some people think the radius should be increased and they should be unblockable like necro wells or ranger traps. A few suggested that we should be able to prematurely end the well to get the final effect albeit in a weaker form (the earlier you abort the weaker the final effect).

• Well of eternity: the comment above being taken into consideration, this is a very good heal. High AOE heal + vigor without being a weak heal for yourself if you manage to stay on points is great.
• Well of Action: I think a favorite for most people, mostly because it is used as a mini time warp so people already knew how to use it properly.
• Well of Calamity: very decent. Some people felt that having only the last pulse giving high damage made this well rather weak and suggested instead that the pulsing damage simply increases with each pulse or have the final damage really stronger.
• Well of Precognition: very hard to use. Because the defensive part of it is delayed, it is very hard to time it right. Some people suggested inverting the effects, but the unblockable part is also something you want to time right… I don’t know what to do with this well, but if kept as it is, its CD probably needs to be reduced to see any use.
• Well of Recall: our only source of AOE alacrity, but I feel it is not worth it currently. 3s alacrity means 2s reduced CD for your party. That is not that strong. The chill is nice, but at the end so less likely to happen. I would at least reduced this well’s CD and cast time.
• Gravity Well. By general consensus, this well is underperforming. While I can see why 4 CC was basically unescapable, only 1 and at the end is really underwhelming. There should be some mechanics so that people have a higher chance of taking the last pulse. Having a big pull in the first pulse is a very possible idea. Making everyone “attracted” to the center with a centripetal force stronger the closer we are from the center is a cool idea but probably needs a lot of new coding. A more simple reduce speed (cripple/chill or some unique effect) in the well works too. An increased radius can also be useful. Essentially someone playing well should be able to escape the well, but it should not be “too easy”.

F5
This shatter is probably the best embodiment of the chronomancer and its high skill cap. So many good ways to use it, and even more bad ways. It allows counter play thanks to the possibility to kill the rift, but since players haven’t been used to that yet, it is hard to evaluate how easy it is to counter it properly.

As it stands, this skill might be overpowered. But at the same time, it is a very hard skill to balance. Increasing its CD is a possibility, but not a satisfying one I would argue. Some people suggested preventing elites to be used during the rift, but I also feel that this is odd. Decreasing its duration is also possible (6s possible duration is very strong, maybe make it 1s base and 1s/illusion shattered?).

Hard to say what to do about it, but I would suggest not to change it too much because people don’t know yet how to react to it which plays a bit role in it being OP.

Traits
Here again, nice job overall, many interesting traits.

• Flow of Time: our best alacrity source. Rather strong but not over the top.
• Time Marches On: Quaggan is very happy
• All’s Well that Ends Well: very useful for the bunker build I mentioned, but not overly amazing. Putting the condition cleanse in the first pulse has been suggested. I would also suggest instead adding enemy boon removal to fit the usual well duality theme. This could be strong, and somewhat stepping on null field, but null field is very much stronger in any case.
• Delayed Reactions, not much to say about this. Definitely helps interrupt builds since it makes interrupting easier.
• Time Catches Up: surprisingly useful and loved by all shatterers (not the draconic ones maybe)
• Danger Time: can be useful, especially in PvE, but many enemies cannot be slowed… Has been suggested to change it into a damage multiplier instead since PvE already max crits. This is a bit out of the “debate” here, but I think the defiant enemies are a particular problem for mesmers. I believe that even if you can’t interrupt a boss, you should be able to proc the “on-interrupt” effects for yourself. Same with slow: the boss could keep the condition for the trait to proc, but simply not getting slowed from it.
• Illusionary Reversion: good!
• Improved Alacrity: not amazing in the current form. 33% is not that much and we already provide alacrity to ourselves fairly well with shatters. I would suggest to change this for “nearby allies gain 1-2s alacrity each time you shatter” or “each time you gain alacrity” to prevent being too shatter-based. This would increase the currently lacking alacrity sharing, and make an additional support trait. The 1-2s would be per shatter and not per shattered illusion (which would be too strong).
• Chronophantasma: in its current form still too strong. A very good idea has been made in the forum which is that the phantasm should keep its usual attack rotation and on the first shatter, it “clones itself” and only the clone gets shattered. This clone would not count for the illusion count of course. This prevents the phantasm burst after the shatter, and also keeps the phantasm position.
• Lost Time: I have seen some complains about being a bit too strong, in particular with the GS AA. Maybe a very short ICD (0.5s?) for each charge or a larger one (4s?) on the slow coud do the trick to prevent excessive slow. Alternatively, slow itself may be reduced to only 33% slower.
• Seize The Moment: great traits. It does not proc with illusionary persona. I don’t know if this is intentional. In any case, I believe that all shatter and traits should have their text made more clear. Beginners cannot guess that their own toon count as a clone by default now.

Overall trait order: chronophantasma and illusionary reversion may be a bit too strong together. Putting both of them as GM could prevent this problem. Added with the change to improved alacrity, we would have 3 clear paths theme (like Robert Gee did for reaper):

• shatter: Time Catches Up, Seize The Moment, Illusionary Reversion
• support: All’s Well that Ends Well, Improved Alacrity and Chronophantasma (I think phantasm are a big part in a support idea since in solo you can support them + there are many support phantasm and inspiration traits)
• slow: Delayed Reactions, Danger Time, Lost Time

F5 – too tricky to use (at least for me and some few friends) mainly use for long cd utilities recharge like time warp, heal skill (well mainly as its aoe heal)
i would say the opposite – prolong its base duration and even more with each clone to the total of 12 sec with 3 clones up. but the shatter will only recharge your utilities and shatter and not weapon skills. it will enable more tactic game
power shatter will use it for disengage or distortion
condi shatter will use it for burst combo with shattering and disengage and utilities
bunker shatter will use it mainly for utilities

shield

1. is nice but bugged as you mention
2. i like the 2 phantasms with 2 block atm but would love if we got 2 sec block. but already with sword we got distortion, f4 .
   also hardly i get alacrity with the bounce unless its 1v1 so maybe change the hit for aoe slow and alacrity for 3 sec 240 radios . thus smart ppl will try not to stand near it or kill it fast from range .

well
eternity well scale nice with healing power to 5k healing aoe. but the radios is small and ppl dont see it on the ground with all the aoe flying around so i need to shout stand on me of i am with comm. so make it larger and visible (empower is 600 r)

i use only action well as other just so unusable atm .
the dmg one easy to dodge with 3 sec duration . thus make it longer like 6 sec (like necros)
recall need to pule both at the same time and for 6 sec
gravity i try to use for res or prevent res other than that easy to avoid

traits
pls dont touch chronophantasma and illusionary reversion. with no DE on average you will have 1.5 illusion up as they will die before shattering or you have cd on your phantasm, WHILE with DE 3 up. so maybe just delay the attack on chronophantasma 0.5 sec more or they can pop up close to the mesmer and not the enemy (better idea as it can revealed the pu mesmer location)

Silverkey.2078:

F5
This shatter is probably the best embodiment of the chronomancer and its high skill cap. So many good ways to use it, and even more bad ways. It allows counter play thanks to the possibility to kill the rift, but since players haven’t been used to that yet, it is hard to evaluate how easy it is to counter it properly.

As it stands, this skill might be overpowered. But at the same time, it is a very hard skill to balance. Increasing its CD is a possibility, but not a satisfying one I would argue. Some people suggested preventing elites to be used during the rift, but I also feel that this is odd. Decreasing its duration is also possible (6s possible duration is very strong, maybe make it 1s base and 1s/illusion shattered?).

Hard to say what to do about it, but I would suggest not to change it too much because people don’t know yet how to react to it which plays a bit role in it being OP.

I agree with your assessment overall, though I’d say we should be careful about lowing the duration on Continuum Shift any more than it’s already been lowered. Too short of a duration and you cut off most of what you can really accomplish with it.

You’re right that its complexity means that we can’t really knee-jerk on it, though. It’s hard to know how it’ll play out once people learn how to counter it and start expecting it to happen.

Agent Noun.7350:

I agree with your assessment overall, though I’d say we should be careful about lowing the duration on Continuum Shift any more than it’s already been lowered. Too short of a duration and you cut off most of what you can really accomplish with it.

You’re right that its complexity means that we can’t really knee-jerk on it, though. It’s hard to know how it’ll play out once people learn how to counter it and start expecting it to happen.

Yeah, the smart move on ANet’s part would be to leave it mostly untouched until HoT release while spending a lot of time thinking about what they could nerf if they end up having to. (I think that cooldown, duration, and even activation time are all solid levers to pull if that ends up being the case.)

It’s a potentially very powerful skill, but it also has clear counters. (Hard CC so you can’t reset any useful skills, cleaving the Rift, etc.) People haven’t even grasped that they can safely AoE our clones yet, so it’s gonna take them a long time to figure out how to play around F5.

I’m reserving judgement about wells/et al until we’ve had time to fully flesh out the class. Between this and Rev, I imagine some surprising and powerful builds to pop out as people explore what they’re both capable of.

But I want to comment on Shield 4. Shield 4 is, in my opinion, stronger than shield 5 by a large margin for shatter builds. And I think Shield 5 is fantastic. For a shatter build, having an on-demand 2x phantasm generation, as well as strategic blocking, is very strong.

In a Chrono/Duel/Insp build, Shield 4 will generate 3 phantasms extremely easily. There’s little opportunity cost that a normal shatter combo (aside from GS 2 combo) presents. You block 2 attacks, waste no dodges, and have a full, or nearly full, shatter. Applied intelligently, you can neuter an opponents important attacks and deal high damage to them.

There’s not much counterplay to the generation, either. Is your opponent going to not attack you? If you pop it early, sure, shame on them for attacking into it. But its not that difficult to time the blocks to attacks an opponent has already initiated, giving them little reaction room.

But I like the skill! A lot! I don’t want to see it changed in any way except for the cool down. Its a bit too powerful on a 30 second duration (especially if you’re using it while Shifted or under alacrity). I’d feel a lot more comfortable with 35-40 second CD.

Silverkey.2078:

• Danger Time: can be useful, especially in PvE, but many enemies cannot be slowed… Has been suggested to change it into a damage multiplier instead since PvE already max crits. This is a bit out of the “debate” here, but I think the defiant enemies are a particular problem for mesmers. I believe that even if you can’t interrupt a boss, you should be able to proc the “on-interrupt” effects for yourself. Same with slow: the boss could keep the condition for the trait to proc, but simply not getting slowed from it.

I think a lot of PvE issues could be solved by selective Resistance effects, as opposed to Defiance which just blocks certain conditions from being applied at all. There would be a minor loss in clarity, but the benefit would be things exactly like this: letting certain builds use their condition synergies without trivialising encounters. Reaper will have the same issue with all their Chill-related traits.

• Chronophantasma: in its current form still too strong. A very good idea has been made in the forum which is that the phantasm should keep its usual attack rotation and on the first shatter, it “clones itself” and only the clone gets shattered. This clone would not count for the illusion count of course. This prevents the phantasm burst after the shatter, and also keeps the phantasm position.

I dunno. One nice thing about the current implementation is that (AFAIK), you can get Persisting Images and Protected Phantasms on the phants summoned by Chronophantasma. Which is important, because what is the point of the trait if your Phantasm just gets blown away by an AoE before its next attack cycle anyway?

If the trait is indeed OP, then I think that the Daze duration would be a more appropriate thing to adjust.

i think the problem of ppl commenting is they look from the dueling glasses only.
yes in dueling 2 shield phantasms are strong but in team fight they arent and probably will be killed in 1 sec from cleave or aoe

chrono trait line seem like a good line to work with phantasm builds while preserve the shattering idea

Also, It is 2 phantasms in a 30s CD. Most phantasms are on about 15s CD. The only benefit is that you can have a “burst” of phantasms and then swapping weapon while waiting for the remaining 20-ish seconds. But this is partly offset by the possibility to get only 1 phantasm (in particular, you cannot start a burst from stealth like some are doing) + the cast time can be very long if you don’t block immediately.

The strength of shield 4 has little to do with dueling. It has everything to do with small fights including up to 6 or so people. The phants spawn far enough away that they won’t be immediately exploded and, combined with SS shatter, are quite likely to land. I don’t duel.

The other phantasm skills are, quite literally, just phantasm skills. They do nothing other than that. But Iduelist is a 20 second CD, so is Izerker, and so is ISwordsman. IWarlock is 18. And these skills don’t provide two blocks and are not instant cast.

The upside is very high on this skill, and the downside is pretty low. Mess up a block and you still end with one phant. And since its instant cast (which it obviously should be), its very easy to not screw up the blocks.

I like the skill, I like how it rewards intelligent play. But I don’t think the cooldown fits with the power of the skill.

tobascodagama.2961:

If the trait is indeed OP, then I think that the Daze duration would be a more appropriate thing to adjust.

Yeah, I’m glad they added it. Right now it’s just a token—one second of daze on a phantasm is barely noticeable—but it’s a clear number that can be tweaked if need be.

messiah.1908:

i think the problem of ppl commenting is they look from the dueling glasses only.
yes in dueling 2 shield phantasms are strong but in team fight they arent and probably will be killed in 1 sec from cleave or aoe

chrono trait line seem like a good line to work with phantasm builds while preserve the shattering idea

This is something that’s always worth keeping in mind. Mesmer is very strong at dueling, but less so when it comes to fighting groups, because of how easily clones and phantasms can get cleaved down. A lot of the concern about Continuum Shift’s power comes from people who are losing duels to Chronomancers.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t a fighting game—it’s not Street Fighter. ArenaNet can’t balance around duels.

1. On f5 I have discouraged against making this any shorter of a cool down. In pvp you will still have time to do another shatter or cast your elite twice in 5 seconds. However, decreasing the cool down from 6 to 5 seconds will hurt pve mesmers a lot.

2. Agree with your shield and well comments, good job.

3. Traits: also agree with you, good job. I think slow should still be put on breaker bar enemies in a weaker form. Else time warp essentially has not secondary ability for group support.

I have explained this in a different thread. However, once again I don’t think people will take illusionary reversion over chronophantama. My suggestion is still to make is so illusionary reversion resumons a clone the first time it shatters. This will help end shatter sequences. I have also explained before why chronophantama is better than illusionary reversion in burst shatter builds.

We still have to be careful with f5, if needed we might need to make it so certain skills can’t trigger in it, like signet of illusions. However, I would like this tested in played more in actual pvp instead of on golems until they make that decision.

I have also explained in a different post that I think siege the moment should remain where it is and it should grant 1 second of quickness per shatter to 5 allies. I used it with signet of inspiration and illusionary inspiration. It only gave about 2 sec on quickness to allies since you have to press the signet or cast another phantasm. Seems very lacking for a grand master trait paired with a specific trait or skill. I think this change will help it compete better with chronophantasma and lost time.

also thought f5 should be changed to 2 sec base plus 1 sec per shatter so you have 3,4,5, and 6 sec in continuum shift.

I completely agree with everything you said, Silver! Great + Complete feedback. Thank you for writing it up!

Also, I did notice a lot of people didn’t enjoy wells but I loved them. I am more of a defensive player and I felt like I could be the class I love and play just the way I wished to with wells + shield.

It was a great beta. Here’s panting with my nose pressed to glass until the next one!

Xstein.2187:

I have explained this in a different thread. However, once again I don’t think people will take illusionary reversion over chronophantama. My suggestion is still to make is so illusionary reversion resumons a clone the first time it shatters. This will help end shatter sequences. I have also explained before why chronophantama is better than illusionary reversion in burst shatter builds.

And I answered in this thread that I disagree. A burst shatter can indeed benefit from chronophantasma more, but a more sustained shatter build (like condi builds or support mesmer) benefits more from iReversion.

I have also explained in a different post that I think siege the moment should remain where it is and it should grant 1 second of quickness per shatter to 5 allies. I used it with signet of inspiration and illusionary inspiration. It only gave about 2 sec on quickness to allies since you have to press the signet or cast another phantasm. Seems very lacking for a grand master trait paired with a specific trait or skill. I think this change will help it compete better with chronophantasma and lost time.

I am not against this suggestion. But I think 3 or 4s personal quickness is strong, and you do have ways to provide excellent group quickness from well + time warp + shield etc… So I am quite fine as it is. This is the difference with alacrity which I would argue is weaker than quickness and yet we can’t provide easily to the group (well has high CD, very little alacrity from shield, not shareable with signet of inspiration etc…) which is why I suggested the alacrity trait to become AOE alacrity (which is what you suggest for the quickness trait).

Else I agree

Xstein.2187:

1. On f5 I have discouraged against making this any shorter of a cool down. In pvp you will still have time to do another shatter or cast your elite twice in 5 seconds. However, decreasing the cool down from 6 to 5 seconds will hurt pve mesmers a lot.

2. Agree with your shield and well comments, good job.

3. Traits: also agree with you, good job. I think slow should still be put on breaker bar enemies in a weaker form. Else time warp essentially has not secondary ability for group support.

I have explained this in a different thread. However, once again I don’t think people will take illusionary reversion over chronophantama. My suggestion is still to make is so illusionary reversion resumons a clone the first time it shatters. This will help end shatter sequences. I have also explained before why chronophantama is better than illusionary reversion in burst shatter builds.

We still have to be careful with f5, if needed we might need to make it so certain skills can’t trigger in it, like signet of illusions. However, I would like this tested in played more in actual pvp instead of on golems until they make that decision.

I have also explained in a different post that I think siege the moment should remain where it is and it should grant 1 second of quickness per shatter to 5 allies. I used it with signet of inspiration and illusionary inspiration. It only gave about 2 sec on quickness to allies since you have to press the signet or cast another phantasm. Seems very lacking for a grand master trait paired with a specific trait or skill. I think this change will help it compete better with chronophantasma and lost time.

also thought f5 should be changed to 2 sec base plus 1 sec per shatter so you have 3,4,5, and 6 sec in continuum shift.

I agree with not trying to make IR compete with Chronophantasm. Although I do prefer the idea of applying a daze (or extending the duration of them) rather then a limit on how many Shatters you can do. The number of Shatters is not so much the issue but the speed at which you can do them.

I am not too keen on having certain skills of same type having arbitrary exceptions. Having only half your bar refresh when F5 ends would make an already complicated ability even more confusing. We already have a thread on this forum explaining the mechanics and current exceptions already.

Regarding wells…

I enjoyed using them. However, even the good ones are pretty bad.

The well radius is really tiny, some of the wells have insane cooldowns, and they have significantly long cast times. On top of all that, the final pulse effect is often rather lackluster.

Unlike necro wells or ranger traps, our wells take 3 full seconds to do something impactful, and they’re blockable. This means that unless you chain cc on someone, they’re going to either walk out of the well or just dodge the last hit. Making the wells larger will help somewhat with this.

The cd for the alacrity well is insane. 45 seconds for 3s of alacrity and a bit of chill? No thanks, that well will never see the light of day unless it gets a drastic cd reduction, something like 30/35 seconds. Can’t remember the cd for precognition off the top of my head (mainly because I never equipped it on account of it being awful), but I think it’s too long as well.

The final pulse of the wells and the preliminary pulses are just so weak. The damage well pulses for ~500 and then ~2500…crits on a damage build. That’s really wimpy. Yeah, it also does cripple and weakness, but for a persistent aoe that you have to stand in for 3 full seconds, I expect a bit more bang for my buck. Gravity well also has problems, but we’ve got threads devoted to that.

On top of all this, there’s another problem. Unless you’re playing an aggressively shattering build, you’re going to have close to zero access to alacrity. On the flip side, if you’re playing an aggressively shattering build you’re going to have close to 100% uptime on alacrity. This is broken in both respects. Alacrity availability needs to be split between shatters and other mechanics (possibly traited wells). This way if you want 100% uptime you’ll need to spec purely for that, but otherwise all builds will have some access, but not have crazy access.

@Fay Many of your comments are somewhat already in my text, I will add the others. Thanks

Are you specifically asking for unblockable?

I feel a simple way to make wells a bit better would be to add the possibility to end them prematurely by reactivating the skill. It would instantly activate the final effect. Some wells would have to be tweaked (Well of Calamity could deal more final damage the more it stays active for example).

I agree with most of the stuff said here! The most important being that the Chronomancer in it’s design is just super fun to play! It really felt like everything had been given a large amounbt a tought and synergy to it! I enjoyed that aspect the most!

That said: F5 I would be very sad to see nerfed, and I would rather see more counterplay added to it instead! There is allready counterplay in form of destroying the node, but it dosn’t really feel that big to do it! Hence I would like to see that when the memser is returned there his stunned for 1, or maybe 2 seconds + everything he used doing the shift won’t be resat. That would be counterplay and make it even more improtant to spawn it the right place!

Chronophantasma, I’m still not sure I find to strong, rather I feel it finally makes you able to build a phantasm build where the enemy have to target your phantams to counter it! I spend a lot of time dueling with friends and while I won everything in the start, they begun to pick up counter play in the form of nuking phantasm. I think the Daze should be changed to a stun tho, so you can’t send them off for a gatling gun shatter right after!

Fay.2357:

The cd for the alacrity well is insane. 45 seconds for 3s of alacrity and a bit of chill? No thanks, that well will never see the light of day unless it gets a drastic cd reduction, something like 30/35 seconds. Can’t remember the cd for precognition off the top of my head (mainly because I never equipped it on account of it being awful), but I think it’s too long as well.

kitten (45s) for Precog as well.

The final pulse of the wells and the preliminary pulses are just so weak. The damage well pulses for ~500 and then ~2500…crits on a damage build. That’s really wimpy. Yeah, it also does cripple and weakness, but for a persistent aoe that you have to stand in for 3 full seconds, I expect a bit more bang for my buck. Gravity well also has problems, but we’ve got threads devoted to that.

Transferring the Cripple+Weakness from Well of Calamity to Gravity Well and then boosting the damage on WoC would do a lot to fix both of those skills, I think.

On top of all this, there’s another problem. Unless you’re playing an aggressively shattering build, you’re going to have close to zero access to alacrity. On the flip side, if you’re playing an aggressively shattering build you’re going to have close to 100% uptime on alacrity. This is broken in both respects. Alacrity availability needs to be split between shatters and other mechanics (possibly traited wells). This way if you want 100% uptime you’ll need to spec purely for that, but otherwise all builds will have some access, but not have crazy access.

This is a very good point, actually. My Chronobunker was spamming a lot of shatters and stuff was just flowing off of cooldown rapidly due to the Alacrity I had. But when I tried to do a Dom/Duel/Chrono Power Shatter burst build, I had almost no Alacrity whatsoever. Maybe the All’s Well trait needs to give the Mesmer some Alacrity for casting Wells instead of the condi clear effect. Then the Alacrity from Flow of Time could be reigned in a bit.

Fay, I’d be curious to hear your opinions on the Slow traits. I haven’t made my mind up about them yet.

Silverkey.2078:

@Fay Many of your comments are somewhat already in my text, I will add the others. Thanks

Are you specifically asking for unblockable?

I think Fay is saying that the Well effects are too weak for how easy they are to mitigate.

i wonder why ppl told on other threads that scepter block for the torment proc is so missable with its animation as even below average player will just stop hitting and now ppl say with the shield its so easy to pop 2 phantasms

isnt the big purple is a huge sign of stop hitting me but the scepter raise hand isnt?!
sry guys stop qq and l2p

shield phantasm dont do much dmg rather slow if it hits like other phantasm so stop yelling for nerf. if you blind to hit it the punish will be maybe 5 sec of slow

I only care that Illusionary Reversion is left exactly as it is – no ICDs, no moving it to grandmaster, no changing how it works.

For example I don’t want to be forced to pick StM if using mainhand sword and trying to maximise evade durations.

Also if not using Scepter when playing a condition build, you have to sequentially shatter – therefore any change to IR which prevents this, or movement if the trait which forces taking StM will automatically favour a single loadout for condition play – scepter/x and staff, because nothing else will be good enough.

This again reduces diversity in weapon and build choice.

Especially following the MtD hack job which almost killed the build I was playing pre patch (current in signature), Illusionary Reversion and Cp are the only silver lining to that miserable Nerf of MtD.

I do not want to be forced to use Scepter for condition shatter play. My current build is played very aggressively, timing sequential shatters to maximise Condi stack and requires keeping a good memory of opponent cleanses and defensive skills as well as using the good in combat mobility through ileap, blink and phase retreat to run circles around the enemy.

I thoroughly enjoy this playstyle, enough to have stuck with it through the MtD nerf… but it heavily relies on sequential shattering so gutting IR will be a huge kick in the face.

Fix Chronophantasma attack cycles and that should be enough. But for God’s sake leave IR alone.

@Curunen I didn’t ask for any change to iRev except putting as a GM to prevent both chronophantama and iRev which honestly are too strong together because they give 2 free shatters in a row and a very cheap third one. So this allows NOT to change iRev, which was also an integral part of my bunker build and definitely not OP on its own. It merely allows to live without deceptive evasion.

Curunen.8729:

I only care that Illusionary Reversion is left exactly as it is – no ICDs, no moving it to grandmaster, no changing how it works.

For example I don’t want to be forced to pick StM if using mainhand sword and trying to maximise evade durations.

Also if not using Scepter when playing a condition build, you have to sequentially shatter – therefore any change to IR which prevents this, or movement if the trait which forces taking StM will automatically favour a single loadout for condition play – scepter/x and staff, because nothing else will be good enough.

This again reduces diversity in weapon and build choice.

Especially following the MtD hack job which almost killed the build I was playing pre patch (current in signature), Illusionary Reversion and Cp are the only silver lining to that miserable Nerf of MtD.

I do not want to be forced to use Scepter for condition shatter play. My current build is played very aggressively, timing sequential shatters to maximise Condi stack and requires keeping a good memory of opponent cleanses and defensive skills as well as using the good in combat mobility through ileap, blink and phase retreat to run circles around the enemy.

I thoroughly enjoy this playstyle, enough to have stuck with it through the MtD nerf… but it heavily relies on sequential shattering so gutting IR will be a huge kick in the face.

Fix Chronophantasma attack cycles and that should be enough. But for God’s sake leave IR alone.

I’m super confused why moving IR to GM would gut the trait, or force you to run scepter. I tried to follow your reasoning, and I feel like it’s about as clear as mud.

You made a point about build diversity, but I don’t understand how build diversity changes with swapping IR and StM. Currently, you take IR and CP, with the option of IR and StM instead (which is what I do). If you swap them, you take IR and StM or CP and StM. That’s still two builds, the difference is one is Chronophantasma based and the other is IR based. The only reason to favor the previous scenario over the new one is if you think that IR and Chronophantasma should be taken together.

It is a pretty common experience in the forum so far, though, that CP and IR are too strong together, and while many people have proposed solving this through gutting one or the other, the solution of swapping IR into GM leaves both traits intact.
Is it your opinion that CP and IR together isn’t too strong? How do you respond to the experience of folks who are seeing too good a return from it?

What’s your problem with Seize the Moment? It’s a shatter trait, just like IR. If you’re forced to take StM under the move, you’re forced to take IR without.

i dont think CP ad IR are too strong

pu power mesmer is still better than that together

if ppl dont attack your phantasms its their fault

the ability to play shatter without DE this is what important

so put them in GM together will force ppl to play regular shatter and not phantasm shatter

also consider shield has big cd thus alacrity is handy with more illusion up thus if i take CP i will have only 1 illusion to shatter twice and w8 for around 15 sec for its cd while having nothing around me thus i am easy target which will be force to take DE

having IR will result in the same manner i will have 1 illusions up and after shatter only 1 clone so i be force to take DE again

also it will hurts the bunker concept as you need full illusion around you the negate dmg and give more alacrity for your skills.

IR +CP will result in one phantasm you summon and shatter and another phantasm and clone up and with gs mirror another clone

with de you get the same result just 2 clones and 1 phantasm

so the big problem here is the phantasm dmg

thus the solution could be prolong the phantasm delay or nurf its dmg and give it slow or alacrity ability for 2 sec. but i see no problem with that

I don’t like quickness with Blurred Frenzy. I don’t have a lot of use for quickness in my primary build besides stomps/resses. Therefore I don’t want it.

I haven’t played this beta because I’m away but I also don’t want to use Lost Time because it is counterproductive with Confusion – please correct me if it doesn’t reduce confusion skill use ticks on enemy skills.

Therefore the only choice for me currently at GM level is Cp.

And IR is mandatory for me at Master level for reasons already stated.

If StM is master tier with the other two choices being danger time (utterly useless if not having any source of slow) and improved alacrity (this is the only thing I would consider taking in that case) then I find the master trait choices are… not ideal for me.

I can understand Cp and IR possibly being too much together, but if they were put on the same tier then the remaining trait choices are all meh – TCU isn’t necessary, neither is improved alacrity I’d it was aoe share, so I’d literally be taking Chrono for movement speed, alacrity, IReversion and F5. That seems a very small payoff for taking a trait line.

In any case I am firmly and totally against any ICD ideas on Ireversion – no way.

I believe if Cp is nerfed to maintain phantasm attack cycles then that will solve the whole thing – no need to move or touch anything else.

Curunen.8729:

I don’t like quickness with Blurred Frenzy. I don’t have a lot of use for quickness in my primary build besides stomps/resses. Therefore I don’t want it.

I haven’t played this beta because I’m away but I also don’t want to use Lost Time because it is counterproductive with Confusion – please correct me if it doesn’t reduce confusion skill use ticks on enemy skills.

Therefore the only choice for me currently at GM level is Cp.

And IR is mandatory for me at Master level for reasons already stated.

If StM is master tier with the other two choices being danger time (utterly useless if not having any source of slow) and improved alacrity (this is the only thing I would consider taking in that case) then I find the master trait choices are… not ideal for me.

You seem to say you want good confusion procs + blurred frenzy, which is not a very typical combination (since sword is not a condi weapon). But why not. In this case, the quickness comes after a shatter, so you can very well predict it and thus not blurred frenzy at this time. I would argue that stomping and rezzing are good arguments on their own, but quickness on sword AA, phantasm cast, heal etc… is a huge addition too. So I think the quickness is far from being a bad idea even in your case. But you still have the alacrity trait which is far from useless: alacrity really benefits most builds, although sadly as Fay mentioned, mostly shatter builds.

And with the new system, it is not rare to have a build for which one trait tier seems unideal. That is part of the game.

messiah.1908:

i dont think CP ad IR are too strong

pu power mesmer is still better than that together

if ppl dont attack your phantasms its their fault

the ability to play shatter without DE this is what important

so put them in GM together will force ppl to play regular shatter and not phantasm shatter

also consider shield has big cd thus alacrity is handy with more illusion up thus if i take CP i will have only 1 illusion to shatter twice and w8 for around 15 sec for its cd while having nothing around me thus i am easy target which will be force to take DE

having IR will result in the same manner i will have 1 illusions up and after shatter only 1 clone so i be force to take DE again

also it will hurts the bunker concept as you need full illusion around you the negate dmg and give more alacrity for your skills.

IR +CP will result in one phantasm you summon and shatter and another phantasm and clone up and with gs mirror another clone

with de you get the same result just 2 clones and 1 phantasm

so the big problem here is the phantasm dmg

thus the solution could be prolong the phantasm delay or nurf its dmg and give it slow or alacrity ability for 2 sec. but i see no problem with that

1. That’s an awfully pessimistic phantasm count. Every weapon set can produce at least 2 phants at a time.
2. Persistence of Memory is one of the most common picks with the setup. 2 Phants + shatter = 4s off phant cooldown, putting iDuelist/iZerker down to 12s left, and iSwordsman down to 8s left. If you managed to get a clone off (easypeasy), you’ll also get 4 seconds of alacrity, for 2.66 more seconds off each, taking us down to 9.36s and 5.36s, respectively. One more shatter takes 4s more off each, dropping them to 5.36s and 1.36s, assuming no time has passed. Of course, since you waited out the 1s daze and the .5ish seconds for the phants to actually attack again (longer if using iDuelists), that puts iZerker at 3.86s left, iDuelist at 2.36s left, and iSwordsman off cooldown already. That’s without accounting for the second round of alacrity, which is either 3s or 4s, giving 2s or 2.66s of cooldown reduction, depending if you managed to get another clone out (not too hard, you’ve still got one of your clone weapon skills off cooldown). That means iZerker will come off cooldown 2.33 seconds from now, iDuelist 1.42 seconds from now, and iSwordsman is obviously still already on cooldown.
iSwordsman has a 1s cooldown, so you’ll have to wait a whole 1.33 seconds for izerker and .42 seconds for iSwordsman, maybe time enough to get another attack in.

If you have IR at the same time, you don’t even have to worry about clone generation on the second shatter, or the third, or the fourth, because you always have 2 phants up, and a clone from your last shatter.

I’m open to being convinced that it’s not over-powerful, but you’re not making the case very well by dramatically understating the numbers.

Curunen.8729:

I believe if Cp is nerfed to maintain phantasm attack cycles then that will solve the whole thing – no need to move or touch anything else.

It will solve the very strong post-shatter phantasm burst, which is one part of the problem. The very strong illusion uptime that both create is another problem (of a different type), especially strong on condi builds since all shatters can be used for good damage on condi builds (while power build really only uses MW for damage).

My only problem with chronomancer is that the other elite specs revealed so far don’t packso many useful things into one new traitline.

Chrono gives you a powerful new shatter mechanic, easy to maintain alacrity, and then choices to get several other useful things, like slow, quickness, shatters that stop disengaging, or greater illusion management for shatters. Its just so great, and mesmer is also really strong as a base class.

Meanwhile reaper gives a great new mechanic (that needs more damage), but the traits don’t pack in all these new powerful tools. The only one you really get is a little bit more chill and blighter’s boon. Everything else isn’t a very impactful, and while the new ,echanics are very great, it feels partially held back by the flaws of the base class.

And then for Tempest, the traitline is even worse as the overload mechanic has proven to be bad, and the traits almost overwhelmingly focus on improving the overload mechanic, which in of itself is bad. All the non-overload traits like earthen proxy and latent stamina just aren’t very impactful new tools.

nearlight.3064:

My only problem with chronomancer is that the other elite specs revealed so far don’t packso many useful things into one new traitline.

Chrono gives you a powerful new shatter mechanic, easy to maintain alacrity, and then choices to get several other useful things, like slow, quickness, shatters that stop disengaging, or greater illusion management for shatters. Its just so great, and mesmer is also really strong as a base class.

Meanwhile reaper gives a great new mechanic (that needs more damage), but the traits don’t pack in all these new powerful tools. The only one you really get is a little bit more chill and blighter’s boon. Everything else isn’t a very impactful, and while the new ,echanics are very great, it feels partially held back by the flaws of the base class.

And then for Tempest, the traitline is even worse as the overload mechanic has proven to be bad, and the traits almost overwhelmingly focus on improving the overload mechanic, which in of itself is bad. All the non-overload traits like earthen proxy and latent stamina just aren’t very impactful new tools.

I believe builds based on the elite specialization should be as good on average as builds based on the core class. So the question is: is chronomancer better than core mesmer. I honestly cannot answer. Currently, we are all a band of skritts happy about our new shiny tool and a few mechanics seem slightly too strong. But I don’t think chrono is in a bad spot (neither UP nor OP) but we need more time to kitten that.

For the other elite specialization, it is clear that they need more work than chronomancer. Reaper feels like in a good spot design wise but the damage or the cast time need some balancing. I cannot say anything about elementalist and guardian, but I hear they are not happy. But this just means THEIR specialization needs work, not ours. Ele is even a bit different because the core is OP, so having a bad elite specialization “comparatively” may just mean it is actually in a good spot. I haven’t tried myself, so I cannot say.

Even before the beta weekend, I was pretty sure Tempest would be a miss.

Take a class whose power is predicated in large part on the flow between attunements, throwing down fields and applying finishers, a constant motion of abilities.
Then give them a new ability that says “stop everything and sit there channeling!”
They’re not gonna like it. Locking them out of that attunement if they do use it is just adding insult to injury.

Oh, but they aren’t done!

Not a single Chronomancer trait references f5 or shield at all. Not one.
Meanwhile, Tempest has a bunch of traits based on this rather crappy Overload mechanic.

So it’s a double whammy! Give them a bad mechanic, then give them a bunch of traits based on that bad mechanic!

All that said, it’s absolutely true that Ele is still in the best spot right now. If they get left there, it’s not like they need any boosting to their core mechanics, so an elite specialization could be effective at creating a “different” kind of ele than usual, a support ele that makes good use of large aoe channels and shouts and such.
It just sounds like they didn’t do a good job of that.

Silverkey.2078:

Ele is even a bit different because the core is OP, so having a bad elite specialization “comparatively” may just mean it is actually in a good spot. I haven’t tried myself, so I cannot say.

I would disagree with this, just because no one will have any reason to run tempest compared to using base elementalist traitlines. Maybe if tempest is borught up, but the fire line for ele is brought down, then things will be better.

But yeah, from my chronomancer testing, I basically just took the current tourney meta PU zerk shatter build and swapped out dueling for chronomancer and took the two resummon traits and time catches up. Basically the result was something a fair bit better than base mesmer, mainly due to double moas with the shatter reset, and as we all know, chronophantasma with GS is a bit over the top. But I didn’t miss dueling at all, since the stealth from PU was enough to offset the loss of blind.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Even before the beta weekend, I was pretty sure Tempest would be a miss.

Take a class whose power is predicated in large part on the flow between attunements, throwing down fields and applying finishers, a constant motion of abilities.
Then give them a new ability that says “stop everything and sit there channeling!”
They’re not gonna like it. Locking them out of that attunement if they do use it is just adding insult to injury.

Oh, but they aren’t done!

Not a single Chronomancer trait references f5 or shield at all. Not one.
Meanwhile, Tempest has a bunch of traits based on this rather crappy Overload mechanic.

So it’s a double whammy! Give them a bad mechanic, then give them a bunch of traits based on that bad mechanic!

All that said, it’s absolutely true that Ele is still in the best spot right now. If they get left there, it’s not like they need any boosting to their core mechanics, so an elite specialization could be effective at creating a “different” kind of ele than usual, a support ele that makes good use of large aoe channels and shouts and such.
It just sounds like they didn’t do a good job of that.

It didn’t need to be a miss. You could say for mesmer “they put wells to lock you in the same place while mesmer is all about mobility”. But that’s the point: allowing a different playstyle. The problem is that this playstyle needs to be made viable and I don’t think it is the case for the elementalist. And I believe the problem here is simply that the overload does not really add anything the ele cannot do with a shorter cast time… And it also comes to the fact that ele is already fairly polyvalent.

nearlight.3064:

Silverkey.2078:

Ele is even a bit different because the core is OP, so having a bad elite specialization “comparatively” may just mean it is actually in a good spot. I haven’t tried myself, so I cannot say.

I would disagree with this, just because no one will have any reason to run tempest compared to using base elementalist traitlines. Maybe if tempest is borught up, but the fire line for ele is brought down, then things will be better.

That was exactly my point: the core will need some fine tuning. Mostly, ele should not be able to do that much damage in a near-unkillable build. Or not able to sustain that much in a rather damaging build. Currently the DPS is over the top in full DPS build (PvE/WvW backline) and in defensive builds (PvP). This will probably increase the build variety as many builds currently considered unviable are probably fine but simply eclipsed by the OP D/D. And this MAY make tempest more viable too, although I think more work is still needed there.

Curunen.8729:

I don’t like quickness with Blurred Frenzy. I don’t have a lot of use for quickness in my primary build besides stomps/resses. Therefore I don’t want it.

I’ve tested this, and the Blur effect lasts the full 2 1/2 seconds no matter how long the channel is. It’s really easy to check. Without Quickness, the channel and the Blur effect end at the same time. With Quickness, the channel will end but the Blur effect will keep going for like 1/2 s afterward. It’s super easy to check with Time Warp.

tobascodagama.2961:

Curunen.8729:

I don’t like quickness with Blurred Frenzy. I don’t have a lot of use for quickness in my primary build besides stomps/resses. Therefore I don’t want it.

I’ve tested this, and the Blur effect lasts the full 2 1/2 seconds no matter how long the channel is. It’s really easy to check. Without Quickness, the channel and the Blur effect end at the same time. With Quickness, the channel will end but the Blur effect will keep going for like 1/2 s afterward. It’s super easy to check with Time Warp.

So it’s actually better with quickness.
That doesn’t help block abilities, though.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

tobascodagama.2961:

Curunen.8729:

I don’t like quickness with Blurred Frenzy. I don’t have a lot of use for quickness in my primary build besides stomps/resses. Therefore I don’t want it.

I’ve tested this, and the Blur effect lasts the full 2 1/2 seconds no matter how long the channel is. It’s really easy to check. Without Quickness, the channel and the Blur effect end at the same time. With Quickness, the channel will end but the Blur effect will keep going for like 1/2 s afterward. It’s super easy to check with Time Warp.

So it’s actually better with quickness.
That doesn’t help block abilities, though.

True.

Silverkey.2078:

F5

• Improved Alacrity: not amazing in the current form. 33% is not that much and we already provide alacrity to ourselves fairly well with shatters. I would suggest to change this for “nearby allies gain 1-2s alacrity each time you shatter”. This would increase the currently lacking alacrity sharing, and make an additional support trait. The 1-2s would be per shatter and not per shattered illusion (which would be too strong).

Completely disagree. This trait is the only way to achieve perma alacrity. Which contribute to a specific playstyle of continual shattering,

Daniel Handler.4816:

Silverkey.2078:

F5

• Improved Alacrity: not amazing in the current form. 33% is not that much and we already provide alacrity to ourselves fairly well with shatters. I would suggest to change this for “nearby allies gain 1-2s alacrity each time you shatter”. This would increase the currently lacking alacrity sharing, and make an additional support trait. The 1-2s would be per shatter and not per shattered illusion (which would be too strong).

Completely disagree. This trait is the only way to achieve perma alacrity. Which contribute to a specific playstyle of continual shattering,

I don’t know if you’re ironic here?

Daniel Handler.4816:

Silverkey.2078:

F5

• Improved Alacrity: not amazing in the current form. 33% is not that much and we already provide alacrity to ourselves fairly well with shatters. I would suggest to change this for “nearby allies gain 1-2s alacrity each time you shatter”. This would increase the currently lacking alacrity sharing, and make an additional support trait. The 1-2s would be per shatter and not per shattered illusion (which would be too strong).

Completely disagree. This trait is the only way to achieve perma alacrity. Which contribute to a specific playstyle of continual shattering,

I get perma alacrity without it.

Silverkey.2078:

• Chronophantasma: in its current form still too strong. A very good idea has been made in the forum which is that the phantasm should keep its usual attack rotation and on the first shatter, it “clones itself” and only the clone gets shattered. This clone would not count for the illusion count of course. This prevents the phantasm burst after the shatter, and also keeps the phantasm position.

Would staggering the phantasms stun times help? Like first phant get stunned for 1 sec, next for 2-3, and the third for 4-5. It might make for a nasty volley of damage but it would prevent serious all at once burst.

+1 for alacrity to allies. You get enough alacrity without it the way the traits are currently lined up. Allies don’t get enough

Oh and with chronophantasma they are only resummoned the first time they are shattered. Just to me anyway, it sounds like you think that it works like illusionary reversion.

I’m also all for seize the moment and illusionary reversion being switched now instead of seeing the traits being gutted to uselessness.

Silverkey.2078:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Silverkey.2078:

F5

• Improved Alacrity: not amazing in the current form. 33% is not that much and we already provide alacrity to ourselves fairly well with shatters. I would suggest to change this for “nearby allies gain 1-2s alacrity each time you shatter”. This would increase the currently lacking alacrity sharing, and make an additional support trait. The 1-2s would be per shatter and not per shattered illusion (which would be too strong).

Completely disagree. This trait is the only way to achieve perma alacrity. Which contribute to a specific playstyle of continual shattering,

I don’t know if you’re ironic here?

Isn’t shatter mesmer continual shattering playstyle?

Honestly, I think Danger Time shines the most in WvW and PvP. In PvE, running full Berserker puts you at 60% crit chance (58% with Eagle Runes, no buffs), roughly, which means that you’re roughly at 80% with fury, making DT waste 10%. You could slot less Berserker for Valkyrie, but then you’re losing out on early fight DPS (and slotting Valk or defensive really shines in WvW, so you could focus on min-maxing the critical effectiveness of DT there).

Personally, I’m at 80% with Assassins + Ranger (too cheap to swap to Eagle) + 7% Crit Sigils (yes this doesn’t affect Phants, but shush). Actually it’s 78% crit chance, but then I get the remaining with Omnom Ghosts/Dragon Rolls (they provide ~3% crit chance). Once you add in the new Fury we get from Master Fencer, I’m at 100% crit chance when the enemy is below 75% HP.

If you want to min-max the crit from Danger Time in PvE, slot out your Chest + 2 of (Shoulders, Gloves, Boots) to get to 50.05% crit chance. If you don’t want to slot Eagle Runes and instead opt for Scholar, you can run full Berserker leaving you at 49.76% crit chance. This means, once Slow is applied and the enemy is less than 75% HP you have 99.76% crit chance (and a higher damage output than the Assassin variant).

Of course, this doesn’t account for the Assassin variant being able to run IR and CP, which very well might improve the damage output on a given rotation. (Start with an F2 (or F3), summon 2 phants, F1, wait a bit and then F1, summon 2 phants, F1, wait a bit rinse repeat.) This does of course rely on your phants surviving in between MW’s, but it gives you something else to do in between Phant summoning and BF-AA spamming.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

messiah.1908:

i dont think CP ad IR are too strong

pu power mesmer is still better than that together

if ppl dont attack your phantasms its their fault

the ability to play shatter without DE this is what important

so put them in GM together will force ppl to play regular shatter and not phantasm shatter

also consider shield has big cd thus alacrity is handy with more illusion up thus if i take CP i will have only 1 illusion to shatter twice and w8 for around 15 sec for its cd while having nothing around me thus i am easy target which will be force to take DE

having IR will result in the same manner i will have 1 illusions up and after shatter only 1 clone so i be force to take DE again

also it will hurts the bunker concept as you need full illusion around you the negate dmg and give more alacrity for your skills.

IR +CP will result in one phantasm you summon and shatter and another phantasm and clone up and with gs mirror another clone

with de you get the same result just 2 clones and 1 phantasm

so the big problem here is the phantasm dmg

thus the solution could be prolong the phantasm delay or nurf its dmg and give it slow or alacrity ability for 2 sec. but i see no problem with that

1. That’s an awfully pessimistic phantasm count. Every weapon set can produce at least 2 phants at a time.
2. Persistence of Memory is one of the most common picks with the setup. 2 Phants + shatter = 4s off phant cooldown, putting iDuelist/iZerker down to 12s left, and iSwordsman down to 8s left. If you managed to get a clone off (easypeasy), you’ll also get 4 seconds of alacrity, for 2.66 more seconds off each, taking us down to 9.36s and 5.36s, respectively. One more shatter takes 4s more off each, dropping them to 5.36s and 1.36s, assuming no time has passed. Of course, since you waited out the 1s daze and the .5ish seconds for the phants to actually attack again (longer if using iDuelists), that puts iZerker at 3.86s left, iDuelist at 2.36s left, and iSwordsman off cooldown already. That’s without accounting for the second round of alacrity, which is either 3s or 4s, giving 2s or 2.66s of cooldown reduction, depending if you managed to get another clone out (not too hard, you’ve still got one of your clone weapon skills off cooldown). That means iZerker will come off cooldown 2.33 seconds from now, iDuelist 1.42 seconds from now, and iSwordsman is obviously still already on cooldown.
iSwordsman has a 1s cooldown, so you’ll have to wait a whole 1.33 seconds for izerker and .42 seconds for iSwordsman, maybe time enough to get another attack in.

If you have IR at the same time, you don’t even have to worry about clone generation on the second shatter, or the third, or the fourth, because you always have 2 phants up, and a clone from your last shatter.

I’m open to being convinced that it’s not over-powerful, but you’re not making the case very well by dramatically understating the numbers.

put it on video and i believe it
its theory golem attack
now take into account cleaves , aoe , pressured by enemy and then check your cd and skill activation

also even if its correct you stated why its phantasm build with shatter and not just shatter build with chrono trait.

on reality if you proc your phantasm on the point they will die fast versus ele, engi, guard, warrior etc…
thus you need to proc them in range

i tested it in the duels. power shatter build did more burst dmg than with chrono. there is a delay with attacks of the phantasms , reach to the target to shatter and many problem which prevent the to proc from CP.
in average 1 phantasm is up and 1 clone from IR

all i say w8 for the patch to come out and dont nerf things like they did with MTD thus condi builds didnt enter the pvp arena

also didnt get you math. you proc 2 phantasm and 1 clone . if you got gs so 1 phantasm and 1 clone. if you got sword/p than 1 phantasm and 1 clone. if you swap weapon you lost dmg from gs skills . if you do the combo of the gs and than swap its about 4-5 sec till you swap to create your next phantasm. thus in this time your phantasm is dead or not attacking.
than you assuming the enemy see i zerk and iduelist and do nothing and w8 for them to attack again and than shatter…
assume that and you got 2 more up with a clone . but than you assuming no time has pass so you assume to shatter fast before they attack thus you using them as clone factory like the regular power build with 1 phantasm and 2 clone (1 dodge and 1 skill)

same result as i stated.

but if you so worry put icd on PoM trait of 8 sec than you have to w8 before you shatter so the BIG cd wont happens as you stated.

tobascodagama.2961:

Curunen.8729:

I don’t like quickness with Blurred Frenzy. I don’t have a lot of use for quickness in my primary build besides stomps/resses. Therefore I don’t want it.

I’ve tested this, and the Blur effect lasts the full 2 1/2 seconds no matter how long the channel is. It’s really easy to check. Without Quickness, the channel and the Blur effect end at the same time. With Quickness, the channel will end but the Blur effect will keep going for like 1/2 s afterward. It’s super easy to check with Time Warp.

Thank you so much.

I haven’t been able to play properly for quite a few weeks and as I’ve never used Time Warp much or any other previous source of quickness I hadn’t tested this so assumed the worst.

That is the single best piece of news I’ve read in this forum all month – so apologies Silverkey if I came on too strongly. Your suggestions then seem to also work for me as I would certainly choose Illusionary Reversion over Cp (especially with iMage).

:) Wow that has really cheered me up.

but put it together will negate the bunker mesmer to have 2 illusion up in average
if i take IR i need to shatter to create 1 , if i take CP i need to shatter before they killed and w8 for cd

so as you can see with 10 sec i will be with no illusion up so less heal from shatter, less dmg reduction from each clone

just put cd on the phantasm attack trait

The trait are overpowered on the new chronomancer especially the slow on every 5th crit(no counterplay, cant be dodged), the phantasm reviver trait and the clone on shatter. These all sohuld get an internal cooldown. The continuum split is a good enough reason to spec into chrono in itself anyway…. you can double up on moa, burst, use blink+portal for future kiting and being invincible only on 90 sec cd…. the gameplay though looks like more engaing than current mesmer meta. seems fun but need a lot of toning down. At the same time wells dont seem to be too useful