Guild Wars 2

Daniel Handler.4816:

Are you serious. The current top thread just appear. And the other thread on dps in that forum YOU criticized the OP for not maximizing dps correctly.

As for the others. I don’t concern myself with reports that don’t have numbers behind them. Afaik Pyro is saying he did the thing “really really fast.” Its not a lack of paying attention. Its a request for non anecdotal evidence. That is what a report should be.

Without having any math on it, yourself, you seem awfully quick to assume it won’t work.

In fact, since you have no math to show that chronomancer and revenant can’t compete, how are your arguments here not enormous hypocrisy?

Daniel Handler.4816:

Same way people are atheist. And not hypocrites. Provide proof first.

This isn’t religion, this is GW2 build analysis and expectation.
Atheism is grounded in the premise that religion makes elaborate, ungrounded claims that step outside existing scientific understandings based in insufficient or no evidence.

A major GW2 patch changes everything, existing assumptions are always questioned. Revenant is an entirely new class, there ARE no existing scientific understandings.

The current meta isn’t valid past the change, until it is proven to be so.

In short no, you are wrong, and you are indeed a hypocrite.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Afaik Pyro is saying he did the thing “really really fast.”

Honestly not sure what you’re referencing, can you elaborate?

I don’t care as long as i’ll finally be able to destroy every single mesmer that runs pu, mantra or shatter-mantra cancer Because mesmers currently have to much of every thing, same like D/Ds

And for the boon comparison, you are comparing, a build that requires energy, that has an energy waste + cooldown? AND also a permanent build that you cannot change, do you think your comparison is justified compared to mesmer choice of utilities and build ? you are already OP and you want more, please stop.

EDIT: Alpha, sorry there was auto anet correction.

Firelysm.4967:

kitten-mantra cancer

Um, as I understand it, cancer means condi. Condi builds don’t run mantras. What are you smoking, exactly?

Firelysm.4967:

I don’t care as long as i’ll finally be able to destroy every single mesmer that runs pu, mantra or shatter-mantra cancer Because mesmers currently have to much of every thing, same like D/Ds

And for the boon comparison, you are comparing, a build that requires energy, that has an energy waste + cooldown? AND also a permanent build that you cannot change, do you think your comparison is justified compared to mesmer choice of utilities and build ? you are already OP and you want more, please stop.

EDIT: Alpha, sorry there was auto anet correction.

As for the energy management it’s easily manageable if you don’t spam your skills like a mad man. They require energy, which means they also can spam their utilities and elites. The Dragon stance doesn’t have any Energy cost for the utilities, only removing ’’pips’’ and cooldown. Who told you to have all the Facets on ?

How can’t you not change the build ? For the sake of answering your question, Revenant have the luxury of stance swapping which gives 2 healing, 2 elite, 6 utilities. Mesmer have 1 heal, one elite, 3 utilities. Then, when they swap of legendary, they get 50 % energy back.

Did you even test the Herald ?

All I’m asking from my original post, which is not the talk anymore of the thread, is Swiftness and Boon Sharing. If both of them make you think it’s gonna make mesmer OP, then I have bad news for you. It’s QoL at best for the Swiftness.

Boon Sharing : Get 2 Herald with Facet of Strenght, Shared Empowerment, Facet of Nature and you get easy 20 perma might. You can remove all Might stacking profession from your raids or whatever mode you’re playing and just get 2 Herald. Get 3 and you’ll get 25 might, 100%. Add the 150 ferocity buff over it. They don’t even need to sit on Herald, keep the Facet long enough to get 30 secs of a Boon and do your thing.

Starting your post with ’’cancer’’ this ’’cancer’’ that. It’s ok, you can just say out loud that you hate mesmer and want it deleted of the game. Your hate for mesmer is blinding you.

Daniel Handler.4816:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Same way people are atheist. And not hypocrites. Provide proof first.

This isn’t religion, this is GW2 build analysis and expectation.
Atheism is grounded in the premise that religion makes elaborate, ungrounded claims that step outside existing scientific understandings based in insufficient or no evidence.

A major GW2 patch changes everything, existing assumptions are always questioned. Revenant is an entirely new class, there ARE no existing scientific understandings.

The current meta isn’t valid past the change, until it is proven to be so.

In short no, you are wrong, and you are indeed a hypocrite.

Yes. It is a new class. Which is why people going head over heals about the revenant-chrono meta, without providing sufficient mathematical proof, are worthy of skepticism.

Because as of right now no one has come forward with substantial evidence to the claims. You are asking me to prove a negative. Much in the same way that Christians challenge atheists to prove the absence of god. I cannot prove that revenant is not the better class than x. What one can do is prove that revenant is the better class than x. And so far no one has managed to do that. To construe burden of proof with hypocrisy is weird.

I can say that the math was done for the chrono support build I’ve been using. I can’t remember exactly what thread it was in, but math for giving a party permanent quickness and alacrity was done, and it came out substantially above the addition of another elementalist.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Yes. It is a new class. Which is why people going head over heals about the revenant-chrono meta, without providing sufficient mathematical proof, are worthy of skepticism.

Because as of right now no one has come forward with substantial evidence to the claims. You are asking me to prove a negative. Much in the same way that Christians challenge atheists to prove the absence of god. I cannot prove that revenant is not the better class than x. What one can do is prove that revenant is the better class than x. And so far no one has managed to do that. To construe burden of proof with hypocrisy is weird.

You came in here rejecting the idea that Revenant could possibly be part of the meta, with people reporting really high damage in their testing of the Revenant.
You initiated the discussion with a declaration of fact, so the burden of proof lay with you, and when your arguments were deconstructed, you resorted to claiming “no evidence”.
It is you who needed the evidence in the first place, the rest of us were just making predictions. I got on Zenith’s case for claiming to know what the meta will be, earlier in this thread, because we still need to do the math to know.
Just so, your declarations that it cannot be meta depend on math that you haven’t done, and you don’t have in evidence, yet you resort to requiring evidence?

I declare that I believe chronomancer will be part of the meta, assuming no changes to the relevant mechanics of the build. I did the math behind Pyro’s build myself, I named the build and posted it as Jet Lag:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Jet-Lag-PvE-Well-Support-Chrono/first#post5448329

He tested it and found it functioned as advertised (albeit with some practical variation).

That said, what’s left for the next beta and HoT release is for the serious speedrunners to do practical group dps testing (while we cross our fingers hoping they don’t nerf it before then).

But there will be no Meta in HoT until the testing has been done on the final version of HoT, and the results of recorded, high-level runs are in.
Until then, our predictions must be based on the experiences of testers, debates about the merits of this or that build, and what math we can come up with.
Your arguments failed to pass debate muster, but your claims demand evidence as much as ours do, so claiming victory due to lack of evidence while you have no evidence yourself is hypocritical.

Okay, let’s go back over the original posts, shall we?

Daniel Handler.4816:

Very quality power damage, is not enough considering everything else you listed is given in abundance by the current meta.

Conceding the possibility of superior damage, you suggest that’s not good enough.
Zenith replies with another ill-advised insistence on what the meta will be.
You respond with:

Ele, Ele, Guard, Thief, Warrior. Please tell me where you place the Revenant.

To which I provide the Revenant+Chrono team, which uses Chrono support to fill the gaps in the Revenant’s might generation, allowing the dps of Revenant (assuming it is superior) to have a place in the team. Revenant’s aoe 50% boon duration just happens to add great synergy there.

Your response, of course, is where you start making declarations:

Swapping Thief for Mesmer is a dps loss.

Statement of fact without evidence. I contradicted you, and now you’ve seen the math.
This is, btw, why I provided the math about the chronomancer, so don’t you try to wiggle the continued chronomancer discussion onto me alone. You started that argument.

Daniel Handler.4816:

And Warrior stacks might higher than Revenant,

The chronomancer is relevant here as well, as chrono + revenant can provide the needed might, so PS Warrior’s stacking ability is irrelevant, which I noted.

Daniel Handler.4816:

+ loss of banners is a dps loss, banner of discipline>assassin’s presence.

This was conceded, but then noted that Warrior easily has a place alongside the Rev and Chrono. (Not having to stack might presumably frees the warrior to amp his own dps a little more. Banner Berserker, perhaps?)

Daniel Handler.4816:

What toys does Revenant bring other than protection? From a min maxing standpoint this is not a wise decision.

It was noted that Revenants cover the might, have anecdotally superior dps (testing required), and provide boon duration which amplifies the chronomancer’s contribution siginificantly.

Daniel Handler.4816:

edit: you also lose out on reflects, as you took out guardian. They have more flexibility to swap out utility slots than chrono or mesmer meta has, as mesmer providing reflects is not providing whatever new utilities you want to add to the build.

This has been argued exhaustively elsewhere, as I noted. In situations where reflects are vital, mesmers fill the slot just fine, and that’s been demonstrated elsewhere also. Guardian is hardly necessary just for a little bit more reflect, given all the other advantages of the mesmer.

Your response?

Link. I don’t see why I would jump for joy over “reports” that are so important they aren’t on the front page of any of the forum sections. Or searchable through google, youtube, or this forums search bar. But yeah, I’m not “paying attention.”

Having just declared without evidence that mesmer is a dps loss, you now demand evidence. You spend the rest of the thread insisting that if we don’t provide evidence, you must be assumed correct.

Of course, given that all the rest of your arguments were completely ripped down, what else could you do but put turtle up and pretend you can’t lose if we don’t provide proof?
Your point that Revenant may not deal the damage Zenith is insisting on is a valid one, but it has no bearing on the total failure of your other arguments, or your hypocritical insistence that we provide evidence for our assertions, when you have provided none for yours.

He’s essentially trying to shut down discussion because he knows digging up old threads and pages is likely something people won’t want to do.

It’s like that guy who comes into an argument about evolution and climate change and asks “well, show me the specific studies and the specific sentences/data points in those countless studies now”. It’s a stonewalling tactic. Lawyers do it all the time, when instructed to provide council with records they send entire boxes of PAPER records, not even the relevant electronic archives, because the entire point is to choke the opposition via the tedium of sifting through mountains of past statements.

Daniel Handler.4816:

• one, you took a thread about the comparative boon share qualities between two classes and made it about running chronomancer in pve.

Already pointed out that it was your challenges to mesmer that did that, see above.

Daniel Handler.4816:

• two, you keep construing that my comments refer to chronomancer and not revenant or their combination.

I have no math behind revenant, but I do behind chronomancer. Further, as you can see in the argument synopsis above, you made as many arguments against mesmer as you did against revenant. Furthermore, it’s the chronomancer’s presence that makes room for the Revenant, as Chrono allows full might stacking without PS Warrior, and it’s the 50% boon duration from Revenant that makes it a desirable pair for the chrono. It’s the pair that matters, in this case. Chrono will probably be in the meta whether revenant is or not, but if Revenant can pick up the dps slack as well as Zenith insists, Revenant will probably be meta as well.

Daniel Handler.4816:

• three, all this math you provide has to do with chronomancer, not with revenant.

See above, it’s the chrono that enables the revenant’s presence.

Daniel Handler.4816:

But if you want me to engage on something other than revenant fine. You found the 3 ele model faulty, yet you have no qualm with a 3 ele, 1 revenant, 1 chrono.

3 ele, 2 chrono support. You seem to have misunderstood the math. The premise was to determine if Chronos that provide no personal dps can replace dps classes in the meta. Again, this ignored completely the personal dps of the chronomancers. My math proved that the theoretical dps increase via support from a single support chrono is notably greater than the dps increase of an added dps class. If you add the personal dps of the chrono, that just widens the gap.
The 2 chrono case was doing due diligence to check whether “if one is good, is two better?” The answer is no, mainly because 2 creates unnecessary redundancy. Pyro’s testing just confirmed that, as the only lack of the single chrono is full alacrity uptime, but the continuous alacrity from one chrono is amply enough for most situations.
Furthermore, the Revenant’s inclusion is dependent on the Revenant’s dps being competitive. More to the point, it depends on the Revenant having more personal dps than a Warrior, because the Revenant is filling the warrior’s slot, not an elementalist’s slot.

(Fixed it by moving the offending portion to a new post. Weirdest bug I’ve had yet.)

Daniel Handler.4816:

And you have no qualms contemplating the effect of forcing the burden of the reflect and steath meta onto chrono when coupled with the build that grants maximum alacrity and quickness. your concept of switching utilities also interferes with speed runs.

Stealth is not needed for combat, swapping builds for stealth support is not difficult. It is, in fact, exactly what is asked of thieves in meta groups, and that fact is discussed often on the forums.
Reflects are only essential in specific scenarios. The difference between the mesmer’s reflect support and the guardian’s is certainly more than made up for by the mesmer’s dramatically greater utility in the rest of the dungeon. Any dungeon that has so much need for reflects to demand a guardian rather than a mesmer will certainly call for a guardian to be swapped in. But then, isn’t that exactly how mesmers are used right now? For portal in those dungeons where it’s important enough?

Daniel Handler.4816:

• four, as one who plays boon share in atm I am quite excited with your build. however, the concept of revenant replacing things is what I find unlikely

It’s the synergy (might and boon duration) and the assumption of Revenant dps being greater than warrior, frankly. That’s why I find Zenith’s confidence sketchy, because we really do need to know how Revenant dps compares before we can be sure (as I mentioned, you’re not wrong that we need more data).
That said, you came in here arguing that superior dps wasn’t enough, not that the superior dps was false.

Edit: I’d like to apologize for my tone on the hypocrisy thing. I do find myself still annoyed, but that’s not an excuse for being overly rude, your tone has been largely civil.

Honest question, who here in this discussion played a revenant in PvE? Did Daniel play one?

Because I see a lot of downplaying of the class going on and having played it myself I’m curious if that’s coming from personal experience.

Theoretically what is the max a chromancer can sustain all the boons in the game.

Zenith.7301:

Honest question, who here in this discussion played a revenant in PvE? Did Daniel play one?

Because I see a lot of downplaying of the class going on and having played it myself I’m curious if that’s coming from personal experience.

Please no more. I will say I was wrong on everything if we can get back to OP discussion on boon uptime, mesmer vs revenant.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Also if I recall. This is after your introduction of chrono in to the question of where revenant fits in the meta. But the matter of chronomancer preceded that. Because you felt the need to share about the build you created that Pyro was testing, your addition to the conversation happening before my question on revenant. In fact, my last comment before this whole chronomancer pve kitten was on boon sharing alone.

This is a thread comparing boonsharing on herald vs mesmer. A chronomancer build that shares boons is extremely relevant. My earlier comment was in response to false declarations from Zenith regarding what “must” be the meta come HoT. Further, what was said earlier in the thread is not relevant to our argument, as it was not determined nor course directed by that earlier discussion. Chronomancer support is the reason I believe Revenant will have a place in the meta, and there’s nothing disingenuous or even off-topic about that.

Daniel Handler.4816:

But stop treating your “predictions” as something holier than declarations. I say that now I certainly will admit my initial prediction of replacing thief as a dps loss is based on this current meta. Yet. The math you put forward for your point is on a predicted team spec, a predictive model, with no grounds in anything other than beta. Yes at times I became preachy. But you never reached a point that was beyond theoretical. So if you disliked my use of “can’t disprove a negative”, understand that I dislike a person using theoretical data to make declarations, oops I’m sorry prediction, and then treat them as if they have current world application.

I’m only making the distinction because you started calling everything invalid if we didn’t have links or math to back it up! I wasn’t even going to bring up the matter of evidence, until you did so! C’mon man, you’re talking out of one side of your mouth, having already said something else out of the other!

Further, you asked for math. I gave you math. Your arguments have been dismantled, your call for math has been answered at least on the chronomancer side, so what, all that will satisfy you is videos of people running dungeons with every build combination under the sun?
Why did you even try to speculate on the value of Revenant to the HoT meta when you won’t accept anything a forum-goer can provide, and you won’t provide any such “evidence” yourself?

Lastly, regarding the math I did, given the assumption that Ele is the highest solitary dps class in the game, the math was designed to provide the worst case scenario: trying to replace an elementalist.
The only case that my math does not cover is trying to replace a high-dps class on a low-dps team (trying to replace the only ele on a team of supports, for example). So long as the average team dps is at least as high as the character being replaced, the math holds. So chrono only replaces an ele if the rest of the team is eles, otherwise it replaces another support. As long as that is true, the math bears out.
Yes, that’s theoretical, in the sense that practical dps is hindered by in-game conditions, and I noted assumptions that could make this difficult. Fortunately, Pyro’s experience in testing helped determine whether the theory could function in practice, and which of those assumptions are reasonable or not. The good news is that it works.
We just won’t be certain exactly how close it lines up with the math until we get some solid speedrun testing come HoT.

You asked for math, I gave you math. Now you insist math isn’t good enough? Keep backing yourself into a corner and you’ll find you have nowhere left to go.

Regarding your note about boonsharing and the chrono share build, my biggest regret is that full Boonshare is not feasible with this build.

The build heavily weights chaos (and practically requires Illusions), which makes Inspiration hard to fit in, and it heavily weights on filling your utility slots with Wells, making SoI hard to fit in.

I could see a hybrid that compromises on alacrity/quickness uptime in order to get real boonshare, but I’ve never built a boonshare mesmer, so I’m not sure how to construct such a thing.

Not really relevant to the topic, but you’re arguing with a guy that brought us this gem.

I couldn’t really take him seriously after that.

Embolism.8106:

I couldn’t really take him seriously after that.

I didn’t take him seriously and I never knew about that until just now.

I will admit a number of things then.

• First, you are probably correct with the chronomancer, I only say probably because you also want to do more testing, and I will reserve judgement until you have finished.
• Second. This debate has stopped becoming something I care about, and more something of defending ego. I personally feel I would have admitted defeat earlier if phrases like hypocrite or turtle didn’t enter the discussion, but that is my flaw not yours.
• Third, this discussion has derailed to the point that if a mod read this thread it would most likely be deleted. As such I will delete all non important posts. But keep within this post that you, alphathewhite, were the most correct, for anyone confused by the current structure of the conversation. And any posts that quote words I’ve written assume that the one quoting me was correct. Further argument brings nothing.
• Fourth, please get back to the point of boon sharing. Alacrity and quickness are fine, but one is not a boon, and its not exactly boon sharing if its only 1 boon. I realise that sharing quickness and giving alacrity is very important, but can we see how well mesmers can share the other 10 boon they have access to. For instance, the mesmer can uniquely share 2min of regeneration because the base duration of BD for distortion is quite high.
• Fifth if my presence in this discussion is too distracting. Then I will stop posting, but please fulfill the criteria of the OP. If you want to catalogue my post history, by all means do so on your own time, but don’t add it to the discussion.

Daniel Handler.4816:

• Fourth, please get back to the point of boon sharing. Alacrity and quickness are fine, but one is not a boon, and its not exactly boon sharing if its only 1 boon. I realise that sharing quickness and giving alacrity is very important, but can we see how well mesmers can share the other 10 boon they have access to. For instance, the mesmer can uniquely share 2min of regeneration because the base duration of BD for distortion is quite high.

On this topic:

The build I was using was NOT a boonsharing build. I took BD, and had an incredibly high rate of shattering, and this manifested itself in happening to produce a rather significant amount of might (10ish stacks), and vigor (close to 70% when considering the pulses from the heal well on a 12s cooldown). This, however, was not the intended purpose of the build, just something I noticed happening.

The purpose of the build is to produce tremendous uptime of alacrity and quickness on your entire party. When I first started using it, I assumed it would fit into a team composition containing a PSEA warrior for might, and other assorted sources of fury. Producing this quickness and alacrity is something unique to chronomancer; no other class or build can do this, even in a remotely similar fashion.

Now, as it so happens, the 10ish stacks of might produced open up the possibility that a PSEA warrior might not be necessary, considering the amount of boons that revenant is able to produce.

All that being said

The particular chronomancer build I was using has absolutely zero bearing on the topic of this thread, namely the fact that revenant is actually better at providing massive boon support to a party (quickness and alacrity notwithstanding) than a dedicated mesmer boonshare build, while producing top tier dps at the same time. An additional point mentioned was the passive permanent upkeep of swiftness due to simply activating a utility contrasted with the given reasoning for nerfing the swiftness from SoI. These points all remain valid and rather puzzling for the most part, until you consider the additional information of which devs designed the classes, and which classes seem to have been designed with anything remotely approaching balance in mind.

Esplen.3940:

Embolism.8106:

Esplen.3940:

Is there any use for Shield? I find it’s so niche that it’s basically never used. The only time I might use Shield is if I’m headless chickening vs Lupi as a Warrior, but even then a Warhorn is better.

Well… in PvP there is!

Perhaps new content in HoT will be designed so you can no longer ignore your own survivability, in which case shields may make a comeback.

But I doubt it.

Most “challenginng PvE content” involves unblockable things that kill anything that isn’t mid-roll (or out of the AoE).

So yeah, I doubt it. (And warriors use shield in pvp?)

Those that use an axe…

Fay.2357:

Daniel Handler.4816:

• Fourth, please get back to the point of boon sharing. Alacrity and quickness are fine, but one is not a boon, and its not exactly boon sharing if its only 1 boon. I realise that sharing quickness and giving alacrity is very important, but can we see how well mesmers can share the other 10 boon they have access to. For instance, the mesmer can uniquely share 2min of regeneration because the base duration of BD for distortion is quite high.

On this topic:

The build I was using was NOT a boonsharing build. I took BD, and had an incredibly high rate of shattering, and this manifested itself in happening to produce a rather significant amount of might (10ish stacks), and vigor (close to 70% when considering the pulses from the heal well on a 12s cooldown). This, however, was not the intended purpose of the build, just something I noticed happening.

The purpose of the build is to produce tremendous uptime of alacrity and quickness on your entire party. When I first started using it, I assumed it would fit into a team composition containing a PSEA warrior for might, and other assorted sources of fury. Producing this quickness and alacrity is something unique to chronomancer; no other class or build can do this, even in a remotely similar fashion.

Now, as it so happens, the 10ish stacks of might produced open up the possibility that a PSEA warrior might not be necessary, considering the amount of boons that revenant is able to produce.

All that being said

The particular chronomancer build I was using has absolutely zero bearing on the topic of this thread, namely the fact that revenant is actually better at providing massive boon support to a party (quickness and alacrity notwithstanding) than a dedicated mesmer boonshare build, while producing top tier dps at the same time. An additional point mentioned was the passive permanent upkeep of swiftness due to simply activating a utility contrasted with the given reasoning for nerfing the swiftness from SoI. These points all remain valid and rather puzzling for the most part, until you consider the additional information of which devs designed the classes, and which classes seem to have been designed with anything remotely approaching balance in mind.

I would just like to say, a full party of guardians has permanent quickness…

Originally I was a bit annoyed because I had a Mesmer build designed purely to grant perma swiftness to allies. Done by stacking boon duration and centaur runes, then using SoI and the focus. I pretty much trade off dps and other support for this, so it’s not that viable and honestly is an extremely niche build. But doing this with the Herald is so much easier. Still, I’m content to have this purely as my travel build.

But it doesn’t make much sense to have the Herald, a heavy armor class be better at granting allies swiftness than the Chronomancer which should be the master of swiftness. Even thematically, the Thief would be a better candidate for granting perma swiftness. But I see why it was done, since there are 5 facet utility skills and each one is tied to a specific boon. If Swiftness was replaced, the only other candidate would be Stability or Vigor. My preference would be that the Facet of Elements would pulse +25% movement speed rather than Swiftness. Since it pulses 3 seconds worth of a boon, there is no reason why they could create a unique boon or a modified one for a facet.

On the topic of providing mass alacrity to other classes, has anybody looked into if this creates weird dps builds in other classes. I’m just imagining peoples minds being blown if Bearbow Ranger suddenly becomes the top dps build.

Pyro tested it a lot in dungeons and according to him it was very strong.

In terms of boon share. The mesmer is able to share all boons in the game, and alacrity. When you add in chronomancy, you can share all the boons in the game for at least 10 seconds.

Daniel Handler.4816:

In terms of boon share. The mesmer is able to share all boons in the game, and alacrity. When you add in chronomancy, you can share all the boons in the game for at least 10 seconds.

Not all on the same build, though.
Resistance needs Temporal Enchanter, but Boonshare needs Illusionary Inspiration, for example.

We don’t have a reliable source of Retaliation (chaos storm is unpredictable, and we aren’t getting it from Signet of Inspiration if we’re using SoI to boonshare, and the odds of getting Retaliation when you want it are…incredibly low anyway).

Aegis is also chaos-storm-only, unless you’re running PU, which besides also being unpredictable does not have a good place in a boonshare build (you’d need stealth skills, you’d need to sit in stealth til you get aegis, and you’d need to be boonshare in chaos but not take Bountiful Disillusionment, which is just not gonna happen).

We can get everything else though, so that’s nice.

Alpha, pls, DH is running 6/6/6/6/6/6

Fay.2357:

I talked about this in the other thread, but here’s the rotation. I use chronophantasma for this, since it helps with illusion uptime.

3 illusions (staff 2+3 because they remain at range and safe, I’ll use that while approaching the boss), then swap to sw/shield and use iLeap for the third illusion. Immediately shatter f5 so that they don’t have time to get squished. Drop time warp first, because it has a very short channel and will boost the speed of the rest of this combo. Then roll through all 4 wells and shield 5, order here doesn’t matter so much, just do it as fast as possible.

If possible, position yourself so that shield 5 doesn’t hit a wall, otherwise it’ll go poof.

If you roll through that rotation rapidly, you should cast all 4 wells and shield 5 and have about a quarter second before you pop back out of f5. Once you do, drop all 4 wells again, and do shield 5 again. At this point you want to be shattering everything except distortion (and potentially diversion, depending on the boss) off of cooldown. You’ll want to be dropping calamity and the heal well off of cooldown as well, for alacrity uptime. The quickness well and shield 5 will come off of cooldown at about the same time, so use the quickness well cd to time when you need to be back in sw/sh to drop them again. Lastly, try to keep chaos armor up, since you’ll be getting an enormous rate of cd on chaos storm (which actually does really solid damage) with both alacrity and chaos armor when using chaotic dampening.

Don’t use the alacrity well or time warp once you’ve finished the initial combo unless it’s purely to end a fight. That entire combo has a cooldown of 45ish seconds, which is the cd of continuum split when traited in illusions and with permanent alacrity. If the fight really takes that long (it shouldn’t), just make sure you’re ready to get 3 illusions up once CS comes off of cooldown to start it up again.

I am very interested in this! I’m gonna have to give it a try when BWE3 comes around. What is your stat setup for this? Is there a link to your build of this, by chance?

Phloww.1048:

Fay.2357:

I talked about this in the other thread, but here’s the rotation. I use chronophantasma for this, since it helps with illusion uptime.

3 illusions (staff 2+3 because they remain at range and safe, I’ll use that while approaching the boss), then swap to sw/shield and use iLeap for the third illusion. Immediately shatter f5 so that they don’t have time to get squished. Drop time warp first, because it has a very short channel and will boost the speed of the rest of this combo. Then roll through all 4 wells and shield 5, order here doesn’t matter so much, just do it as fast as possible.

If possible, position yourself so that shield 5 doesn’t hit a wall, otherwise it’ll go poof.

If you roll through that rotation rapidly, you should cast all 4 wells and shield 5 and have about a quarter second before you pop back out of f5. Once you do, drop all 4 wells again, and do shield 5 again. At this point you want to be shattering everything except distortion (and potentially diversion, depending on the boss) off of cooldown. You’ll want to be dropping calamity and the heal well off of cooldown as well, for alacrity uptime. The quickness well and shield 5 will come off of cooldown at about the same time, so use the quickness well cd to time when you need to be back in sw/sh to drop them again. Lastly, try to keep chaos armor up, since you’ll be getting an enormous rate of cd on chaos storm (which actually does really solid damage) with both alacrity and chaos armor when using chaotic dampening.

Don’t use the alacrity well or time warp once you’ve finished the initial combo unless it’s purely to end a fight. That entire combo has a cooldown of 45ish seconds, which is the cd of continuum split when traited in illusions and with permanent alacrity. If the fight really takes that long (it shouldn’t), just make sure you’re ready to get 3 illusions up once CS comes off of cooldown to start it up again.

I am very interested in this! I’m gonna have to give it a try when BWE3 comes around. What is your stat setup for this? Is there a link to your build of this, by chance?

This is what I used: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAseWncfCtfilfC+fCUrhlejyMAugMqeUb1XF9GitZD-TRBXgAAK/U3fIUfQv6PPKBJFQEDjA-e

Weapon sigils don’t matter very much. I used traveler runes because they’re the only rune set that has both boon duration and offensive stats, but you could sub those out for any other boon duration set.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Daniel Handler.4816:

In terms of boon share. The mesmer is able to share all boons in the game, and alacrity. When you add in chronomancy, you can share all the boons in the game for at least 10 seconds.

Not all on the same build, though.
Resistance needs Temporal Enchanter, but Boonshare needs Illusionary Inspiration, for example.

We don’t have a reliable source of Retaliation (chaos storm is unpredictable, and we aren’t getting it from Signet of Inspiration if we’re using SoI to boonshare, and the odds of getting Retaliation when you want it are…incredibly low anyway).

Aegis is also chaos-storm-only, unless you’re running PU, which besides also being unpredictable does not have a good place in a boonshare build (you’d need stealth skills, you’d need to sit in stealth til you get aegis, and you’d need to be boonshare in chaos but not take Bountiful Disillusionment, which is just not gonna happen).

We can get everything else though, so that’s nice.

Yes on the same build. Just run chaos, inspiration, and chronomancy. Rift into time warp+well of eternity+chaos armor+chaos storm+blow all shatters + use SoI + phase retreat + shift back + repeat all the previous steps except no rifting obviously.

Zenith.7301:

tobascodagama.2961:

While I haven’t played around with Rev yet this beta, I do have to point out that Facet skills require Energy upkeep. So the Revenant is trading the potential use of other skills to get perma-Swiftness.

It shows you haven’t played the revenant. Turning the swiftness aspect outside combat does nothing to deplete your energy.

The way it works is you get 5 ticks of energy regen. The more active ticks the faster it regens.

Facet of fury and facet of might require 2 ticks of upkeep. Swiftness only 1.

So you can have facet of swiftness+might/fury up and have 2 ticks of remaining upkeep, or might+fury face and have 1 tick remaining.

With any amount of ticks remaining, you still have enough energy regen to basically spam your DPS skills without worrying.

Most of the revenant’s damage comes from the autoattack (doesn’t cost energy), with occasional use of Unrelenting Assault to evade.

So basically a revenant gets 3 signets on the glint legend, the signet passives are aoe to the group and rather powerful, with easy to maintain energy unless you’re running them all at the same time, which isn’t necessary.

This is the problem with mesmer players. They obviously don’t play other classes and then go saying our class is fine when they have no measuring stick to compare it to.

My herald can run around with permanent 10 stacks of might and perma fury, perma swiftness when outside combat to move around quick, and by pressing f2 every 20 seconds I get to spike up to 20+ might, on top of gaining protection and regen to boot.

It’s even worse than that.

Alternatively, you can use f1 with facet of fury and swiftness, and build up a duration stack of around 30 seconds of swiftness/fury while out of combat that will probably last for most of, if not the entirity of the next fight you get into, even if you leave the legend to go to your other one to access their skills and remove the upkeep costs given how short most battles are.