Guild Wars 2

I know, I will compare two different professions and some should apply and some should not. I just want to point out some issues I have.

Not only Herald stole the Spirits mechanic from the Ranger and made it better, it also stole our boon sharing and Signet of Inspiration mechanics.

Let’s look at one of the issue : Swiftness

Robert Gee on Ready Up #35: The passive of this skill now gives 5 seconds of Swiftness… This was gonna be 10 seconds… I assure you all WvW mesmers, I have tried this with no boon duration, and if you run this with your… ohm… ehh… focus, focus 4, you can basically have constant Swiftness, you’ll be fine… We wanted you to have some investment, you should have to invest in boon duration if you want that to be permanent, or at least the focus skill, we wanted there to be some play with it, ‘cause if you get permanent Swiftness all the time, there’s no play to that.

Well guess what, Herald didn’t have to invest anything to get perma Swiftness all the time. It’s just innate. Yes I’m aware it’s an elite spec and they have to be on the Dragon stance. I’m just saying someone can sit all day long on the Dragon stance if he wanted even if it’s probably not maximizing its profession mechanics.

Facet of Elements : Pulse swiftness to nearby allies every few seconds. : It’s better than Signet of Inspiration (SoI) for swiftness (It’s perma swiftness), but also shared in a radius of 600 passively.

SoI do the same thing, but you have to active it and get a 30 sec cooldown. If the Herald is using his active, it’s only on a 15 sec cooldown and do something more useful that just boon sharing. You would say it doesn’t give other boons, but just look at their other Facets, why would you care to receive Retaliation or Regen or RANDOM boons.

To make it worst, our Temporal Curtain ’’feature’’ doesn’t stack.

Another issue : Boon sharing.

Facet of Nature : Naturalistic Resonance (3s): Increase outgoing boon duration by 50%.
VS
Chaotic Persistence : Outgoing boon and condition duration increase for every boon on you. Duration Increase: 3%

Well, it’s not like we give boons like candies (Looking at you Herald), we get a worst version of it ! How much would you work to get 50 % duration ? We can’t even top that. They also changed Signet of Midnight Boon Duration to Condition Duration.

You would say that Herald can’t share the hard worked 25 stack might you had to do to get it with shattering and interrupting. True, but I would trade anything the Herald have right now in the case of Swiftness and Boon Sharing. The Herald would have been a good mesmer spec related with Muse/Bard.

Consistency please.

While I haven’t played around with Rev yet this beta, I do have to point out that Facet skills require Energy upkeep. So the Revenant is trading the potential use of other skills to get perma-Swiftness.

The Herald is an Elite spec that specialises in boon sharing. Why would you expect the base Mesmer to be comparable to that?

The only issue with SoI is Temporal Curtain’s Swiftness not stacking with existing Swiftness, making juggling it and SoI needlessly frustrating. Fix Temporal Curtain and non-Chrono Mesmer travelling would be fine.

tobascodagama.2961:

While I haven’t played around with Rev yet this beta, I do have to point out that Facet skills require Energy upkeep. So the Revenant is trading the potential use of other skills to get perma-Swiftness.

True, but -1 pip is hardly unmanageable. If you had Facet of Element for a while, its duration goes and stays around 30 secs. It means you can remove your Facet of Element -1 pip in battle or use 2x the active Elemental Blast and re-use your Facet without loosing any swiftness.

Embolism.8106:

The Herald is an Elite spec that specialises in boon sharing. Why would you expect the base Mesmer to be comparable to that?

The only issue with SoI is Temporal Curtain’s Swiftness not stacking with existing Swiftness, making juggling it and SoI needlessly frustrating. Fix Temporal Curtain and non-Chrono Mesmer travelling would be fine.

Yes, I did point that out, I didn’t say mesmer should be comparable to that. I just wanted to say SoI is so weak in comparison to Facet of Elements. Robert Gee said we shouldn’t get perma swiftness without working for it, but then they gave it to the Herald. With no Rune, Sigil or ‘’doing something’’ investment.

Hear me out, I’m not asking for a Herald nerf. It’s just inconsistency.

And yes, fixing Temporal Curtain would helps a lot.

Different class, beta class, no stealth, etc etc.

BUT THEY GAVE CHRONOMANCERS THE 25% MOVESPEED WE ALWAYS WANTED LOLOLOLOL.

I don’t know anymore…

tobascodagama.2961:

While I haven’t played around with Rev yet this beta, I do have to point out that Facet skills require Energy upkeep. So the Revenant is trading the potential use of other skills to get perma-Swiftness.

It shows you haven’t played the revenant. Turning the swiftness aspect outside combat does nothing to deplete your energy.

The way it works is you get 5 ticks of energy regen. The more active ticks the faster it regens.

Facet of fury and facet of might require 2 ticks of upkeep. Swiftness only 1.

So you can have facet of swiftness+might/fury up and have 2 ticks of remaining upkeep, or might+fury face and have 1 tick remaining.

With any amount of ticks remaining, you still have enough energy regen to basically spam your DPS skills without worrying.

Most of the revenant’s damage comes from the autoattack (doesn’t cost energy), with occasional use of Unrelenting Assault to evade.

So basically a revenant gets 3 signets on the glint legend, the signet passives are aoe to the group and rather powerful, with easy to maintain energy unless you’re running them all at the same time, which isn’t necessary.

This is the problem with mesmer players. They obviously don’t play other classes and then go saying our class is fine when they have no measuring stick to compare it to.

My herald can run around with permanent 10 stacks of might and perma fury, perma swiftness when outside combat to move around quick, and by pressing f2 every 20 seconds I get to spike up to 20+ might, on top of gaining protection and regen to boot.

Except the revenant doesnt share boons it pulses them.
The revenant has a lot of on demand utility. But as a result it is generally inferior to its the counterparts from the main classes.

We have access to all boons in game. Revenant does not. We can share quickness, vigor, resistance, retaliation, aegis better than it.

I made a revenant and a Chronomancer. The Chronomancer was the superior boon support by far.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Except the revenant doesnt share boons it pulses them.
The revenant has a lot of on demand utility. But as a result it is generally inferior to its the counterparts from the main classes.

We have access to all boons in game. Revenant does not. We can share quickness, vigor, resistance, retaliation, aegis better than it.

I made a revenant and a Chronomancer. The Chronomancer was the superior boon support by far.

lol I’d love to know what dps build you’re running that’s giving your allies 10 might and perma fury.

Zenith.7301:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Except the revenant doesnt share boons it pulses them.
The revenant has a lot of on demand utility. But as a result it is generally inferior to its the counterparts from the main classes.

We have access to all boons in game. Revenant does not. We can share quickness, vigor, resistance, retaliation, aegis better than it.

I made a revenant and a Chronomancer. The Chronomancer was the superior boon support by far.

lol I’d love to know what dps build you’re running that’s giving your allies 10 might and perma fury.

you get perma fury from the dueling tree, and might stacks of that high or greater from illusions + strength runes/pack runes/travelers or frequent greatsword+ that trait. then just use the signet 1-4 times and tada.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Zenith.7301:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Except the revenant doesnt share boons it pulses them.
The revenant has a lot of on demand utility. But as a result it is generally inferior to its the counterparts from the main classes.

We have access to all boons in game. Revenant does not. We can share quickness, vigor, resistance, retaliation, aegis better than it.

I made a revenant and a Chronomancer. The Chronomancer was the superior boon support by far.

lol I’d love to know what dps build you’re running that’s giving your allies 10 might and perma fury.

you get perma fury from the dueling tree, and might stacks of that high or greater from illusions + strength runes/pack runes/travelers or frequent greatsword+ that trait. then just use the signet 1-4 times and tada.

Obviously your post has nothing to do with PvE, as usual. Because the meta PvE build is dom/dueling/chrono. No illusions, and mesmers don’t use anything but scholar runes. Fury from dueling comes on mobs with under 75% health, so for the first 25% hp of a raid boss you are generating no fury.

I don’t even know why I bothered responding when as usual it’s gimmick WvW builds.

I think Dom/Illu/Chrono will be good for PvE actually. With Illusionist’s Celerity, Persistence of Memory, Chronophantasma and a healthy dose of Alacrity, you can basically spam Phantasms for their first strike then Shatter them over and over; and with Sceptre no longer being a completely detrimental weapon Malicious Sorcery would be a nice boost.

Zenith.7301:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Zenith.7301:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Except the revenant doesnt share boons it pulses them.
The revenant has a lot of on demand utility. But as a result it is generally inferior to its the counterparts from the main classes.

We have access to all boons in game. Revenant does not. We can share quickness, vigor, resistance, retaliation, aegis better than it.

I made a revenant and a Chronomancer. The Chronomancer was the superior boon support by far.

lol I’d love to know what dps build you’re running that’s giving your allies 10 might and perma fury.

you get perma fury from the dueling tree, and might stacks of that high or greater from illusions + strength runes/pack runes/travelers or frequent greatsword+ that trait. then just use the signet 1-4 times and tada.

Obviously your post has nothing to do with PvE, as usual. Because the meta PvE build is dom/dueling/chrono. No illusions, and mesmers don’t use anything but scholar runes. Fury from dueling comes on mobs with under 75% health, so for the first 25% hp of a raid boss you are generating no fury.

I don’t even know why I bothered responding when as usual it’s gimmick WvW builds.

BUT YOU CAN MAINTAIN SUPER HIGH GS STACKS OF MIGHT BY SITTING STILL AND PRESSING 1. THAT’S OP.

Embolism.8106:

I think Dom/Illu/Chrono will be good for PvE actually. With Illusionist’s Celerity, Persistence of Memory, Chronophantasma and a healthy dose of Alacrity, you can basically spam Phantasms for their first strike then Shatter them over and over; and with Sceptre no longer being a completely detrimental weapon Malicious Sorcery would be a nice boost.

You lose out on perma fury for phantasms, which don’t get fury from your team due to the incredibly stupid 5 target cap on boons (which screws over rangers and minion necromancers as wells, as well as spirit weapon guardians).

You lose out on 150 ferocity from fencer’s finesse and the cd reduction on iswordsman (negating the benefit from celerity).

You lose on the bleed procs from illusion crits, which is still a chunk of damage even in a power spec.

I don’t think those are worth losing over Illusions. Illusion has terrible minors outside celerity as well.

I’m probably gonna use sword/swrod+ sword/pistol ot sword/focus unless they improve the shield.

Shield is terrible for PvE. A humongous 30 sec cd on the phantasm summon, with a built in 2 second delay, and a block that’s the same from offhand sword in that it only blocks a single projectile and breaks afterwards.

The shield phantasm is atrocious, terrible damage and boon/condi application due to the slow attack rate as well. Shield 5 is the only decent thing about it.

But hey Robert Gee says it’s a defensive weapon like all shields so we can let shield rot in disuse in PvE much like no guardians or warriors use the shield ever in PvE.

For the mesmer the offhand sword and focus serve as better defensive weapons anyways, they either block or reflect/cc without the horrendous damage loss.

Same reason guardian uses offhand focus over shield, focus 5 bubble and the bouncing blind is way better defense than the crappy long cd defenses on the shield.

For warrior they use offhand sword and the block is just as defensive as the shield with a lower cooldown and less offensive loss.

The idea of going Illusions instead of Dueling is that although your Phantasms will be weaker without Fury and the extra Ferocity, they will attack much more often because you can Shatter and reconjure them constantly with PoM + Phantasma. You might even use Cry of Frustration just to reset your Phantasm attack CDs.

Plus in the same way Sharper Images is extra damage, so is Confusion on every Shatter. And if you’re Shattering often to reset Phantasms, I think that would add up to be more than what you’re get from SI.

Is there any use for Shield? I find it’s so niche that it’s basically never used. The only time I might use Shield is if I’m headless chickening vs Lupi as a Warrior, but even then a Warhorn is better.

Krispera.5087:

Let’s look at one of the issue : Swiftness

Robert Gee on Ready Up #35: The passive of this skill now gives 5 seconds of Swiftness… This was gonna be 10 seconds… I assure you all WvW mesmers, I have tried this with no boon duration, and if you run this with your… ohm… ehh… focus, focus 4, you can basically have constant Swiftness, you’ll be fine… We wanted you to have some investment, you should have to invest in boon duration if you want that to be permanent, or at least the focus skill, we wanted there to be some play with it, ‘cause if you get permanent Swiftness all the time, there’s no play to that.

Revenant has zero disengage while mesmers can disengage any time they want very easily.

What good is perma-swiftness if a zerg can chase you down and kill you.

Esplen.3940:

Is there any use for Shield? I find it’s so niche that it’s basically never used. The only time I might use Shield is if I’m headless chickening vs Lupi as a Warrior, but even then a Warhorn is better.

Well… in PvP there is!

Perhaps new content in HoT will be designed so you can no longer ignore your own survivability, in which case shields may make a comeback.

But I doubt it.

runeblade.7514:

Krispera.5087:

Let’s look at one of the issue : Swiftness

Robert Gee on Ready Up #35: The passive of this skill now gives 5 seconds of Swiftness… This was gonna be 10 seconds… I assure you all WvW mesmers, I have tried this with no boon duration, and if you run this with your… ohm… ehh… focus, focus 4, you can basically have constant Swiftness, you’ll be fine… We wanted you to have some investment, you should have to invest in boon duration if you want that to be permanent, or at least the focus skill, we wanted there to be some play with it, ‘cause if you get permanent Swiftness all the time, there’s no play to that.

Revenant has zero disengage while mesmers can disengage any time they want very easily.

What good is perma-swiftness if a zerg can chase you down and kill you.

No disengage? WTH, have you even bothered to learn the shiro legend?

Embolism.8106:

Esplen.3940:

Is there any use for Shield? I find it’s so niche that it’s basically never used. The only time I might use Shield is if I’m headless chickening vs Lupi as a Warrior, but even then a Warhorn is better.

Well… in PvP there is!

Perhaps new content in HoT will be designed so you can no longer ignore your own survivability, in which case shields may make a comeback.

But I doubt it.

Most “challenginng PvE content” involves unblockable things that kill anything that isn’t mid-roll (or out of the AoE).

So yeah, I doubt it. (And warriors use shield in pvp?)

Mai Trin is a good example. Both the cannon shots and her spinning lightning projectiles go through blocks and anything that isn’t outright invulnerability.

Plus the shield doesn’t add more defense than our other defensive options. The offhand sword offers a block on a much lower cooldown, and the off hand focus offers reflects/cc as well.

The shield phantasm is just horrible. I had 3 of them out against one of the veteran frogs and the mobs were even barely slowed and I didn’t notice much alacrity up, mostly because their attack rates are so slow and the bouncing mechanic is unreliable.

iAvenger is really awesome Shatter fodder (assuming your Blocks are popped), but… that’s about it. The Slow is nice in PvP though.

Rob did say they’re looking at Slow in PvE, so I’ll wait and see what they do with it.

Zenith.7301:

runeblade.7514:

Krispera.5087:

Let’s look at one of the issue : Swiftness

Robert Gee on Ready Up #35: The passive of this skill now gives 5 seconds of Swiftness… This was gonna be 10 seconds… I assure you all WvW mesmers, I have tried this with no boon duration, and if you run this with your… ohm… ehh… focus, focus 4, you can basically have constant Swiftness, you’ll be fine… We wanted you to have some investment, you should have to invest in boon duration if you want that to be permanent, or at least the focus skill, we wanted there to be some play with it, ‘cause if you get permanent Swiftness all the time, there’s no play to that.

Revenant has zero disengage while mesmers can disengage any time they want very easily.

What good is perma-swiftness if a zerg can chase you down and kill you.

No disengage? WTH, have you even bothered to learn the shiro legend?

Yep.

Assassin Stance with Riposting Shadows and Jade Winds.
Demon Stance with Unyielding Anguish (Pretty OP to me).
Staff is also interesting with Surge of the Mists and Warding Rift.

We have blink, distortion and stealth.

I guess what the Dev said implies only mesmers and from the look of it, some mesmers are happy with that. Anyway the thread has derailed.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Zenith.7301:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Zenith.7301:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Except the revenant doesnt share boons it pulses them.
The revenant has a lot of on demand utility. But as a result it is generally inferior to its the counterparts from the main classes.

We have access to all boons in game. Revenant does not. We can share quickness, vigor, resistance, retaliation, aegis better than it.

I made a revenant and a Chronomancer. The Chronomancer was the superior boon support by far.

lol I’d love to know what dps build you’re running that’s giving your allies 10 might and perma fury.

you get perma fury from the dueling tree, and might stacks of that high or greater from illusions + strength runes/pack runes/travelers or frequent greatsword+ that trait. then just use the signet 1-4 times and tada.

Obviously your post has nothing to do with PvE, as usual. Because the meta PvE build is dom/dueling/chrono. No illusions, and mesmers don’t use anything but scholar runes. Fury from dueling comes on mobs with under 75% health, so for the first 25% hp of a raid boss you are generating no fury.

I don’t even know why I bothered responding when as usual it’s gimmick WvW builds.

…What high horse are you on. If my build had anything to do with pve I would say that perma fury might or swiftness is completely irrelevant as elementalists outshine it. Warriors outshine it. The revenant does absolutely nothing that cannot be replaced by another class or isnt useful in pve. You are getting angry that you can’t have only the good parts from an otherwise lackluster class.

They have great uptime on stability and protection. Nothing else they can do matters. Unless suddenly people feel comfortable going condi in pve, and then maybe bringing a revenant is useful.

Currently, revenants do very quality power dps in PvE. They have great spiking power, and additionally spread permanent aoe fury, swiftness, 10ish stacks of might, and occasional regen and prot without needing to anything more than roll through their rotation as normal. If you really think that’s “lackluster” in PvE, you’ve got a bit of a reality check needed.

Zenith.7301:

the meta PvE build is dom/dueling/chrono.

What does this even mean? Chrono is not out yet, we’ve had scarcely any time to test it, and no one is doing speed runs on beta classes.

There is no meta.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Zenith.7301:

the meta PvE build is dom/dueling/chrono.

What does this even mean? Chrono is not out yet, we’ve had scarcely any time to test it, and no one is doing speed runs on beta classes.

There is no meta.

Meh, nitpicking. Call it “the standard build that will be run given it stays this way”.

Short of some significant rework to inspiration/illusions/chaos magic, this will be the build that chronomancers run on release.

They’ll switch out dueling for Inspiration when reflects are needed. You don’t need to run it live. Many people are already testing out these beta classes on fractal 50 for optimal builds.

I suspect the heavy focus in development won’t be on revisiting their recently revamped vanilla specializations anyways given they’ve still got revenant and elite spec balancing, on top of druid+forge left to go. But I’ll be happy to be proven wrong.

Zenith.7301:

Meh, nitpicking. Call it “the standard build that will be run given it stays this way”.

No, you really don’t know what “the standard build that will be run” is.

Even the really serious speedrun testers are still working through the standard classes like revenant and berserker warrior, they’re nowhere close to coming to conclusions on mesmer yet.
Chrono is still wild and woolly territory, with people coming out with odd new ways to use the rotations every day.

For example, the Alacrity/Quickness build that Pyro’s been testing has some extremely promising math behind it, and he’s been very successful with it so far. That’s Chaos/Ill/Chrono, btw.

For what game format? What does Chaos offer you in PvE, specifically?

The specifics of how chronomancer is played may change (weapons used, chronomancy traits chosen, utilities), but the useful PvE traitlines really don’t.

Zenith.7301:

For what game format? What does Chaos offer you in PvE, specifically?

The specifics of how chronomancer is played may change (weapons used, chronomancy traits chosen, utilities), but the useful PvE traitlines really don’t.

PvE. I was certain you were in some of the threads where I was doing this math?

From Chaos: 12-15% boon duration (reliably, in theory more with the right team boon generation),
10ish stacks of team might from BD, 50% team vigor uptime, and some decent team fury uptime.
The real kicker, of course, is the solid 30-35 seconds of alacrity and quickness, or as the warrior Pyro ran with said, the whole team not even using auto-attacks, just using cooldown skill after cooldown skill.

That’s on top of some nice defensive traits just in case that becomes an issue come HoT.

I could have sworn boon duration did not affect alacrity. Might is gonna be stacked from your eles nd PSEA warriors, if not for the Revenant who’s also going to give the group 50% boon duration.

Persisting Flames is 100% uptime on fury for your team.

So we’re down to 50% vigor uptime (which a thief with trickery will also provide, or a ranger with Nature Magic which is already part of their vanilla meta build variations) and 12-15% boon duration for quickness in exchange for the other “useless” minors and an adept and master trait that won’t benefit you much as a power build.

I’m not convinced, but we’ll see. If condi mesmer becomes a thing in PvE, I can see Chaos as a used line. Not seeing it for a power spec.

Zenith.7301:

I could have sworn boon duration did not affect alacrity. Might is gonna be stacked from your eles nd PSEA warriors, if not for the Revenant who’s also going to give the group 50% boon duration.

Persisting Flames is 100% uptime on fury for your team.

So we’re down to 50% vigor uptime (which a thief with trickery will also provide, or a ranger with Nature Magic which is already part of their vanilla meta build variations) and 12-15% boon duration for quickness in exchange for the other “useless” minors and an adept and master trait that won’t benefit you much as a power build.

I’m not convinced, but we’ll see. If condi mesmer becomes a thing in PvE, I can see Chaos as a used line. Not seeing it for a power spec.

Boon duration doesn’t affect alacrity, but it affects quickness. I’m able to reach the 35 seconds of alacrity purely from my well rotation, but to reach 35s of accompanying quickness requires chaos for the boon duration. Additionally, chaos allows you to really double down with the damage support from the aoe 10-12 stacks of might you share while doing the rotation from BD. I posted about it in the beta build testing thread, you should give it a whirl, it’s extremely fun.

In fact, I’ll do it right now. Consider me intrigued ;o. If anything, it should also improve my solo experience since one of my gripes compared to playing my revenant or necro was my lack of might/fury stacking avenues while solo roaming in Verdant Brink.

Zenith.7301:

In fact, I’ll do it right now. Consider me intrigued ;o. If anything, it should also improve my solo experience since one of my gripes compared to playing my revenant or necro was my lack of might/fury stacking avenues while solo roaming in Verdant Brink.

Be warned, the rotation takes some practice.

Pyro makes it look easy, but I know I’m not the only one who has a hard time getting it all down right.

Yeah, chrono feels like a machine gun pace right now. Time to fire up good old Pingzapper as well.

Zenith.7301:

In fact, I’ll do it right now. Consider me intrigued ;o. If anything, it should also improve my solo experience since one of my gripes compared to playing my revenant or necro was my lack of might/fury stacking avenues while solo roaming in Verdant Brink.

It’ll work for solo, but I wouldn’t necessarily recommend it. It’s anything but optimized for personal damage. You sacrifice that for the insane uptime on quickness and alacrity. As a side bonus, you also share the boons from BD, provide a lot of slow (for mobs without breakbars of course), and you actually have an insane aoe healing output from the heal well on a 12s cooldown (vigor too).

Ah, ok, and are you taking seize the moment to gain quickness as soon as you continuum shift and squeeze more skills in? Or did you go for Lost Time/Chronophantasma?

Zenith.7301:

Ah, ok, and are you taking seize the moment to gain quickness as soon as you continuum shift and squeeze more skills in? Or did you go for Lost Time/Chronophantasma?

I talked about this in the other thread, but here’s the rotation. I use chronophantasma for this, since it helps with illusion uptime.

3 illusions (staff 2+3 because they remain at range and safe, I’ll use that while approaching the boss), then swap to sw/shield and use iLeap for the third illusion. Immediately shatter f5 so that they don’t have time to get squished. Drop time warp first, because it has a very short channel and will boost the speed of the rest of this combo. Then roll through all 4 wells and shield 5, order here doesn’t matter so much, just do it as fast as possible.

If possible, position yourself so that shield 5 doesn’t hit a wall, otherwise it’ll go poof.

If you roll through that rotation rapidly, you should cast all 4 wells and shield 5 and have about a quarter second before you pop back out of f5. Once you do, drop all 4 wells again, and do shield 5 again. At this point you want to be shattering everything except distortion (and potentially diversion, depending on the boss) off of cooldown. You’ll want to be dropping calamity and the heal well off of cooldown as well, for alacrity uptime. The quickness well and shield 5 will come off of cooldown at about the same time, so use the quickness well cd to time when you need to be back in sw/sh to drop them again. Lastly, try to keep chaos armor up, since you’ll be getting an enormous rate of cd on chaos storm (which actually does really solid damage) with both alacrity and chaos armor when using chaotic dampening.

Don’t use the alacrity well or time warp once you’ve finished the initial combo unless it’s purely to end a fight. That entire combo has a cooldown of 45ish seconds, which is the cd of continuum split when traited in illusions and with permanent alacrity. If the fight really takes that long (it shouldn’t), just make sure you’re ready to get 3 illusions up once CS comes off of cooldown to start it up again.

Yeah, pretty close to what I experienced.

It’s pretty fun, except when the kitten boss kills my continuum fragment before I can even finish the combo but I should probably do continuum shift before even reaching melee range since iLeap can be cast from range as well.

Didn’t want to be a buff bot, but this is pretty nice. If a revenant with facet of nature is around, this will boost the quickness uptime so much ;O

Zenith.7301:

Yeah, pretty close to what I experienced.

It’s pretty fun, except when the kitten boss kills my continuum fragment before I can even finish the combo but I should probably do continuum shift before even reaching melee range since iLeap can be cast from range as well.

Didn’t want to be a buff bot, but this is pretty nice. If a revenant with facet of nature is around, this will boost the quickness uptime so much ;O

Yeah, I’ve had the fragment killed once or twice, but if you’re careful about when you execute the combo (at the very start before the boss really gets going) you shouldn’t have any trouble.

Granted, this role is certainly a bit non-traditional from the gw2 standard meta, but I look at it from a different perspective. Currently the mesmer primary role is as a troop carrier. This new build fills a role requiring continual upkeep of cooldowns and rotations involving nearly every skill you have, and the reward is a drastic boost to your party members. It’s you being actually useful to a party in a real and noticable fashion, and it’s literally the most fun I’ve ever had in gw2 dungeons.

Ugh, it’s gonna be such a pain to decide between this and reaper and revenant, and MAYBE the druid.

Anet is just perverse ;(

Honestly, yes, it could become a balance issue but I don’t see how it is one right now. Classes are just way too different to compare such a tiny facet individually.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Fay.2357:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Zenith.7301:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Zenith.7301:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Except the revenant doesnt share boons it pulses them.
The revenant has a lot of on demand utility. But as a result it is generally inferior to its the counterparts from the main classes.

We have access to all boons in game. Revenant does not. We can share quickness, vigor, resistance, retaliation, aegis better than it.

I made a revenant and a Chronomancer. The Chronomancer was the superior boon support by far.

lol I’d love to know what dps build you’re running that’s giving your allies 10 might and perma fury.

you get perma fury from the dueling tree, and might stacks of that high or greater from illusions + strength runes/pack runes/travelers or frequent greatsword+ that trait. then just use the signet 1-4 times and tada.

Obviously your post has nothing to do with PvE, as usual. Because the meta PvE build is dom/dueling/chrono. No illusions, and mesmers don’t use anything but scholar runes. Fury from dueling comes on mobs with under 75% health, so for the first 25% hp of a raid boss you are generating no fury.

I don’t even know why I bothered responding when as usual it’s gimmick WvW builds.

…What high horse are you on. If my build had anything to do with pve I would say that perma fury might or swiftness is completely irrelevant as elementalists outshine it. Warriors outshine it. The revenant does absolutely nothing that cannot be replaced by another class or isnt useful in pve. You are getting angry that you can’t have only the good parts from an otherwise lackluster class.

They have great uptime on stability and protection. Nothing else they can do matters. Unless suddenly people feel comfortable going condi in pve, and then maybe bringing a revenant is useful.

Currently, revenants do very quality power dps in PvE. They have great spiking power, and additionally spread permanent aoe fury, swiftness, 10ish stacks of might, and occasional regen and prot without needing to anything more than roll through their rotation as normal. If you really think that’s “lackluster” in PvE, you’ve got a bit of a reality check needed.

Very quality power damage, is not enough considering everything else you listed is given in abundance by the current meta.

Put another way, Revenant is 3rd in DPS behind ele and sinister engineer, it provides the unique aura of Assassins’ Presence, and Facet of nature will increase quickness and protection duration by 50% (since might and fury are stacked in abundance, but quickness and protection are limited).

If you think revenant won’t be meta, there’s not much help for you.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Zenith.7301:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Fay.2357:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Zenith.7301:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Zenith.7301:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Except the revenant doesnt share boons it pulses them.
The revenant has a lot of on demand utility. But as a result it is generally inferior to its the counterparts from the main classes.

We have access to all boons in game. Revenant does not. We can share quickness, vigor, resistance, retaliation, aegis better than it.

I made a revenant and a Chronomancer. The Chronomancer was the superior boon support by far.

lol I’d love to know what dps build you’re running that’s giving your allies 10 might and perma fury.

you get perma fury from the dueling tree, and might stacks of that high or greater from illusions + strength runes/pack runes/travelers or frequent greatsword+ that trait. then just use the signet 1-4 times and tada.

Obviously your post has nothing to do with PvE, as usual. Because the meta PvE build is dom/dueling/chrono. No illusions, and mesmers don’t use anything but scholar runes. Fury from dueling comes on mobs with under 75% health, so for the first 25% hp of a raid boss you are generating no fury.

I don’t even know why I bothered responding when as usual it’s gimmick WvW builds.

…What high horse are you on. If my build had anything to do with pve I would say that perma fury might or swiftness is completely irrelevant as elementalists outshine it. Warriors outshine it. The revenant does absolutely nothing that cannot be replaced by another class or isnt useful in pve. You are getting angry that you can’t have only the good parts from an otherwise lackluster class.

They have great uptime on stability and protection. Nothing else they can do matters. Unless suddenly people feel comfortable going condi in pve, and then maybe bringing a revenant is useful.

Currently, revenants do very quality power dps in PvE. They have great spiking power, and additionally spread permanent aoe fury, swiftness, 10ish stacks of might, and occasional regen and prot without needing to anything more than roll through their rotation as normal. If you really think that’s “lackluster” in PvE, you’ve got a bit of a reality check needed.

Very quality power damage, is not enough considering everything else you listed is given in abundance by the current meta.

Put another way, Revenant is 3rd in DPS behind ele and sinister engineer, it provides the unique aura of Assassins’ Presence, and Facet of nature will increase quickness and protection duration by 50% (since might and fury are stacked in abundance, but quickness and protection are limited).

If you think revenant won’t be meta, there’s not much help for you.

Ele, Ele, Guard, Thief, Warrior. Please tell me where you place the Revenant.

Ele, Ele, Ele, Chrono, Revenant. Only thing you lose is the banners, but Revenant brings its own toys to the table. You couuuld swap one of the eles for warrior to get the banners back, but do you really want to?

Daniel Handler.4816:

Swapping Thief for Mesmer is a dps loss. And Warrior stacks might higher than Revenant, + loss of banners is a dps loss, banner of discipline>assassin’s presence. What toys does Revenant bring other than protection? From a min maxing standpoint this is not a wise decision.

It’s clear you have been playing absolutely zero attention.

Chronomancer support adds more dps to the team than even another ele. This point was made in this thread and others, and the math has been done elsewhere.

Chronomancer support adds 10 might to the team, Revenant adds enough team might on their own to make up the rest (especially with 3 eles in the team).

Revenant provides more dps (reportedly) than the thief or warrior do.

Don’t need the thief for skips, Chrono mesmer is nearly as good in some ways, better in others. As long as you don’t need 100% team stealth uptime, Chrono covers it.
Don’t need the guardian for reflects, Mesmer can easily spec into it when necessary.
Don’t need the PS Warrior for Might, the chrono and rev get us where we need to go.

So what we lose is the banners. We’d have to decide whether that’s important, of course, but we can always swap one of the three eles for a PS Warrior anyway, for ele ele warrior chrono rev.
Reports put that at greater dps than the current meta, since reports so far suggest:
Rev dps > thief dps
Chrono dps (via support) > ele dps > Guardian dps

forum bug. sigh

Why are you sticking to a 5 man format when the top tier of competitive PvE in HoT is going to be 10 man raids?

Daniel Handler.4816:

Link. I don’t see why I would jump for joy over “reports” that are so important they aren’t on the front page of any of the forum sections. Or searchable through google, youtube, or this forums search bar. But yeah, I’m not “paying attention.”

The reports about Revenant damage were in this very thread! Your response to that wasn’t “no they aren’t”, so I assumed you agreed, and just didn’t think that would be enough to get it into the meta (sinister engi isn’t meta, after all).
You can make that argument, of course, but that’s completely immaterial to your earlier objection. Using that now is presenting a moving target, which is a bad way to carry on a discussion.

The chrono’s damage potential has been made in multiple places. You can read…this very thread! To see the conversation between myself, Zenith and Pyro regarding the viability and use of the chrono support build.
If you care about the math, you can see the build Jet Lag that I posted a while back, which is the theoretical basis of Pyro’s build (his version is tweaked for practicality).

The mesmer’s ability to do reflects competitive with guardians and stealth/skips competitive with thieves is a matter of record, and is only enhanced by the addition of Continuum Split.

Pyro’s experience giving might to his team is practical and fresh. Revenants’ ability to give team might is well-known.

This is why I said you weren’t paying attention, because the discussions you are asking about are in this very thread.

RE 5-man team analysis: Given that aoe effects are limited to 5 targets, it’s reasonable to make the analysis assumption that within your 10 man raid, there will be a 5 man subset that is devoted to providing dps output. You can then analyze that 5 man group as you would a normal team. This obviously neglects various things such as alacrity’s affect on defensive and mobility cooldowns and the like, but it’s good enough for a baseline analysis.

Fay.2357:

RE 5-man team analysis: Given that aoe effects are limited to 5 targets, it’s reasonable to make the analysis assumption that within your 10 man raid, there will be a 5 man subset that is devoted to providing dps output. You can then analyze that 5 man group as you would a normal team. This obviously neglects various things such as alacrity’s affect on defensive and mobility cooldowns and the like, but it’s good enough for a baseline analysis.

It also neglects effects that are raid-wide, which are admittedly rare.

Except, Tides of Time is one, so chronos get a leg-up there, too!

There is a thread right at the fractals and dungeons forum showing solo indestructible golem kill times and lupicus solos, and DnT and others have already been testing Revenant DPS.

It’s getting tiresome when some people don’t bother to keep up and then expect you upon request to provide a comprehensive link list otherwise they get to claim ignorance as a defense of their arguments.

If you are at this point arguing Revenant’s DPS, I don’t think I want to continue the conversation. This is ridiculous, sorta like arguing against someone like Nemesis who was dead set that necromancer DPS was better than warrior DPS pre-Reaper.