Guild Wars 2

Spent the day comparing these two phantasms and came to some interesting conclusions. In my tests I used 10/15/0/25/20 (has all phantasm related traits) build with phantasm base crit chance being 70% (typical unbuffed zerk). What I was comparing are the effects Sharper Images and Phantasmal Haste have on the phantasm DPS. In all tests I had 3 phantasms up and only them attacking.

No sharper images, no phantasmal haste

• 1,383 dps – duelist
• 1,931 dps – swordsman

With sharper images, no phantasmal haste

• 2,066 dps – duelist
• 2,085 dps – swordsman

With sharper images, with phantasmal haste

• 2,358 dps – duelist
• 2,085 dps – swordsman

All results, ordered by total dps

• [59%] 1,383 dps – duelist
• [67%] 1,575 dps – duelist + PH
• [82%] 1,931 dps – swordsman
• [88%] 2,066 dps – duelist + SI
• [88%] 2,085 dps – swordsman + SI
• [100%] 2,358 dps – duelist + PH + SI

To test no sharper images, I ran 10/14/0/25/20 build which is loss of 1% crit damage (10 precision were recovered with 1 stack of accuracy) compared to 10/15/0/25/20’s stats. I considered that to be acceptable. Tests were completed by taking an average of 600 DPS values (10 min worth of attacking) recorded with the gw2dps app.

Also, note that all tests were done with 0 might stacks. Direct damage and bleeds scale differently with might and results probably will be different.

But phantasmal haste is bugged, it doesn’t affect all phantasms making your conclusion wrong. Swordsman + SI will deal more damage than Duelist with same setup (and if PH is fixed, Swordsman will outdamage the duelist anyways).

Edit : http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Haste

I’m well aware of what PH is and what effects it has on our phantasms. If, and its a big IF, phantasmal haste is fixed for swordsman then I surely will do the experiment again.

Thx much for doing this test!

Should we assume that your stats where no higher than what you got from traits? For example, was condition damage 200?

Thx again

My bases stats with 10/15/0/25/20 and zerk trinket, ranger runes, no sigils:

• 1,939 power
• 50% crit chance / 43% crit damage
• 200 condi damage / 10% condi duration (from traits)

Goal was to keep everything as controlled as possible to eliminate any external factors.

From what Pyro has said, phant haste has never worked on swordsmen. I am not 100 percent sure though.

This is very informative. Unfortunately I find it invaluable to put 20 point into dueling to get the shorter recharge rate for pistols as well as the increased range enabling me to get a head start in fights. With that, I’m five points short of being able to take phantasmal haste

The only other place I can get five more points is maybe from domination giving up the 15% damage increase. But I don’t know what kind of trade off that will make. Should be worth testing.

I also wonder if there’s a way to chart the damage as you summon your phants. The reason is I can imagine that sharper images will make duelists stronger as more of them are out. But that takes time and it’s more than likely the fight will already be over by then.

Till the time three duelists are up, the swordsmen might well be stronger. I really wish GW2 had a kind of “Master of combat” like they had in GW1 giving us DPS numbers periodically.

bhagwad.4281:

I really wish GW2 had a kind of “Master of combat” like they had in GW1 giving us DPS numbers periodically.

Balkanpy from Reddit made a DPS display app.

I’ve not used it, so I don’t know how good or accurate it is.

bearbear.1903:

bhagwad.4281:

I really wish GW2 had a kind of “Master of combat” like they had in GW1 giving us DPS numbers periodically.

Balkanpy from Reddit made a DPS display app.

I’ve not used it, so I don’t know how good or accurate it is.

Wow that’s very cool. Loved it and learned a lot. Like scholar runes are better than divinity runes. And Centaur runes are also awesome (because of the bleed duration I’m guessing).

Now to make a chart showing DPS over time to reflect the set up phase!

bhagwad.4281:

The only other place I can get five more points is maybe from domination giving up the 15% damage increase.

I ran into same dilema as well. Thats why in dungeons i now run 10/20/0/20/20. It fits my s/p-s/f playstyle perfectly. The only difference between that build and the 0/20/0/25/25 pre-patch build is now i have 100 more power (about 3 might stacks)

Thanks for testing this.

Is it safe to assume that the 8% dps difference will scale up with higher precision, due to sharper images? My Phantasm crit chance is at 85% with foods up and caps out with Precision stacks and Banner of Discipline. I’m running 10/20/0/25/15 with s/f – s/s for PvE.

For a duelist buid, I’ve been considering 0/30/0/20/20 but I find it hard to justify the 30% Phantasm damage loss from traits. A better option might be 0/20/0/25/25 or 0/25/0/25/20 but the duelist cd will be at 16 sec compared to Swordsmans 12 as I prefer Blade Training over Duelist’s Discipline.

Worth it?

bhagwad.4281:

I also wonder if there’s a way to chart the damage as you summon your phants. The reason is I can imagine that sharper images will make duelists stronger as more of them are out. But that takes time and it’s more than likely the fight will already be over by then.

Till the time three duelists are up, the swordsmen might well be stronger. I really wish GW2 had a kind of “Master of combat” like they had in GW1 giving us DPS numbers periodically.

With the signet its usually about 15 seconds before you get 3x duelists up and running. If the fight is over before then, then the difference in killtime by having swordsmans instead will be too small to notice. With my s/p-s/f setup i start off the fight with warden + 2x duelists and then 15 sec later replace that first warden with another duelist.

There are many different builds to test for mesmer, 30/30/0/0/10 and the likes.

Thanks for the tests.

I used the gw2dps app to record 10 min worth of dps data and recalculated everything. This should eliminate any possible error on my part since previous tests were timed by hand. While the error margin was very small it’s still better to have data that eliminates possible human error. End results were more or less the same, the list order didn’t change. I updated OP with the latest data.

I also crafted a spreadsheet that calculates phantasm’s damage and the calculated results were within 1% to 3% of the observed ones. I figured that was pretty kitten accurate so I went ahead and calculated a scenario that involves fighting a 2600 armor mob using a 10/20/0/25/15 build with zerk armor/weapons, ascended zerk trinkets, 25 might stacks, banner of discipline, and dragon’s breath buns. Under those conditions iDuelist should crit for 8.3k to 9.8k and iSwordsman under same conditions for 7.5k to 8.3k. Versus a 1,836 armor mob (my glass mes) duelist will do 11.7k to 13.8k and swordsman will do 10.6k to 11.7k