Guild Wars 2

PVP centric nerf mind you.

Mesmer AOE focus pull Temporal Curtain should be nerfed. I believe it should have about half the range (from the curtain, same placement difference). It is perfectly fine to pull with this, but the radius of the pull is quite large atm allowing you to pull people far beyond LOS. It’s also making it far too easy to throw people off cliffs. I respect that tactic, but currently it’s laughably easy to accomplish.

I’m not totally unsympathetic with the Mesmer plights currently. Don’t think I’m a hater. I hope that you get all your bugs fixed (along with necro, elementalist, Ranger, and engineer). I also hope yall get some sort of additional reliable AOE for keep sieges. I know your pain in both of these areas.

But quite simply the pull range from where the curtain is placed is pretty large considering you get to place the curtain where you want at a fair distance.

This doesn’t affect it’s other uses in the slightest. It’ll still cripple, provide swiftness, and reflect projectiles.

Pretty sure temporal curtain is fine the way it is. The AoE pull range is actually less than guardian GS pull, and now thief scorpion wire. Unless you want all of the focus’s PvE usefulness removed (it’s already 50% less useful than before).

When Warden can move while channeling we can begin talks about toning anything to do with Focus down.

The AoE size of Into the Void used to be double the current size during Beta. The current size of the AoE is I believe 600: shrinking it to 300 would make it almost melee range only.

The other uses you listed for TC: Swiftness is mostly useful out-of-combat, reflection requires a trait and is highly unreliable due to the curtain’s low height (the slightest difference in elevation causes it to fail).

Pulls fail frequently, often because the radius isn’t actually that large. If someone is standing next to a drop without any kind of protection from pulls, then they’ve made it laughably easy. The other situation where it’s used, where someone is running away from or after a mesmer and they get pulled, is one of the few ways our slow slow class can actually keep pace with people.

The only place I can think of where you can’t avoid standing next to a drop is the jumping puzzles, but naturally everything is fair game there.

Embolism.8106:

The AoE size of Into the Void used to be double the current size during Beta. The current size of the AoE is I believe 600: shrinking it to 300 would make it almost melee range only.

The other uses you listed for TC: Swiftness is mostly useful out-of-combat, reflection requires a trait and is highly unreliable due to the curtain’s low height (the slightest difference in elevation causes it to fail).

If the placement range is 600 and the radius is 600, wouldn’t that make it 1200 range aoe pull? That would be double the range of the guardian version.

Taldren.7523:

When Warden can move while channeling we can begin talks about toning anything to do with Focus down.

Correct me if I’m wrong but the warden does incredibly high damage doesn’t it? Now I would be perfectly fine with having it mobile as a base move and having it ground targeted and immobile as a traited move. That is Mobile until it begins channeling, at which point it stops until done channeling then follows it’s target again.

No phantasm does incredibly high damage. You actually get less damage output leaving the Warden up for its full spin animation (assuming you have a stationary target) than you would just using it as Mind Wrack fodder.

Definitely don’t try to compare skills across classes, the guardian pull is a completely different tool for a completely different type of class. The question is whether or not the focus pull is as big of a problem as you make it out to be, and I’d disagree as it’s easy to avoid putting yourself next to a cliff or whatever, and it’s an important tool for mesmers to make up their deficiencies with.

I have to agree the radius is fine as it is because players that are close enough to be pulled are close enough to be attacked by a 900 range weapon which is small compared to a greatsword of 1200 range.

Basically, if you get pulled by the temporal curtain, you must be within the attack range of any ranged class and that’s fair. EDIT: tested it, 1200 range for pulling when placing the curtain at 900 (maximum distance)

Also, if it is any smaller you may as well blink and then melee your enemies because you are really that close.

However, I am happy to trade off the pull range of temporal curtain by being able to place it as far as the standard attack range of a greatsword or most ranged weapons of 1200 instead of ~900 as it is currently.

Ralathar.7236:

Correct me if I’m wrong but the warden does incredibly high damage doesn’t it?

Yes and no.
For a phantasm, yes, he deals high damage, and AE. And having him move would be bad for projectile block reasons, rather a way to GTAE place him would be much much superior.
Ultimately his damage is still weak, a result of how weak our Phantasms are in the first place.

(edit)
As far as the Into the Void range goes, I’m not sure I fully get what the problem with a 2-step pull is. Sure, in theory if neither me nor the target move or act at all I can pull from 1200 range. Realistically any enemy who lets me do that is one which I would have killed anyhow (remember I snare from 1200 range, too!).

-1 to Op for pointless QQ/trolling thread, if anything should get nerfed it is mainly portal in wvw. It is riddiculous to see ppl can cry even about minor/not that used skills.
When i see mesmer they mostly use GS/staff combo or pistol as offhand.

I myself use focus/sword/gs, and i can tell you it is NOT easy to draw ppl from walls at all.

Nice pointless QQ. Got ganked in the EB jumping puzzle after being pulled off the platform? Yeah, I like to do that too, alot. Second only to pulling people off in the JP from pretty much every platform, bonus points if he dies from the fall.

In fact, I’m gonna go do that just now.

Yes, lets nerf something because it can disturb the jumping puzzles:D

Guess i will do that from now also, just for the fun factor:P

Mjk.7562:

-1 to Op for pointless QQ/trolling thread, if anything should get nerfed it is mainly portal in wvw. It is riddiculous to see ppl can cry even about minor/not that used skills.
When i see mesmer they mostly use GS/staff combo or pistol as offhand.

I myself use focus/sword/gs, and i can tell you it is NOT easy to draw ppl from walls at all.

i agree that it s not that easy to pull people off walls if they dont stand on the edge.

meanwhile the OP’s signature take a funny meaning in the light of his post.

Ralathar, you should read your sig again and have more faith in what you believe, you will only be stronger..

i agree that it s not that easy to pull people off walls if they dont stand on the edge.
meanwhile the OP’s signature take a funny meaning in the light of his post.
Ralathar, you should read your sig again and have more faith in what you believe, you will only be stronger..

/agree LOL

I liked the GW1 meta game of “try to counter someone else’s build with a new build” better than the GW2 meta game of “whine on the forums about any skill that someone killed me with.”

I love how people always come to the forum complaining that a traited ability is too powerful. In order for warden and curtain to reflect projectiles you need to sink around 20 trait points into it.

People also complain about shatterers (30-60 points), pistol users (20-30 points), and staff bunkers (40 points); and they do so as if you can run all of these builds simultaneously; well here’s something to consider: You can’t.

If a guy is packing a traited temporal curtain or a bunker build, he probably can’t perform an 18k shatter spike and vice versa; if they’re running a full on shatter spike build they’re going to lack a lot of defensive and control utility

Do your research before you file for nerfing

Another nerf Mesmer thread. Wow.

Temporal Curtain is fine. Do you want to make Mesmers totally useless during a siege? We have no AoE. iberserker was nerfed both by damage and LoS and a bug.

Now you want us to have nothing to do at all when sieging a tower/keep/castle?

Seriously?

Xavi.6591:

Now you want us to have nothing to do at all when sieging a tower/keep/castle?

To be fair, you can only use Temporal Curtain on careless people and noobs during a siege. Mesmer is already pretty much designated to being a squishy siege weapon operator and supply runner.

To the OP: why is different abilities working differently a bad thing? I don’t even use an offhand focus, therefore would not even be effected by any sort of nerf to it… but what is the point? Different doesn’t mean overpowered.

I have two issues with the first post-

a) Ralathar wants us to need LoS to be able to pull a target

b) He respects a tactic which is ‘laughably easy to accomplish’.

If he played a mesmer, he might have some understanding of just how much the LoS patch has affected our class.

Funky.4861:

I have two issues with the first post-

a) Ralathar wants us to need LoS to be able to pull a target

b) He respects a tactic which is ‘laughably easy to accomplish’.

If he played a mesmer, he might have some understanding of just how much the LoS patch has affected our class.

I do play a mesmer, this is why I want your bugs fixed and you to have a reliable and useful AOE for keep sieges.

No I don’t want you to need LOS.

Yes I respect the tactic of knocking people off of cliff, but obviously it’s easier to accomplish with some skills than with others.

I’ll go a step further and say I don’t think phantasm summoning should be stopped by blind and Aegis.

I just want mesmer to be overall useful instead of a gimmick classes based around a few powerful abilities. Currently the later is preventing some help to the former IMO. Not that mesmer is helpless or anything atm. It’s not.

Ralathar.7236:

I just want mesmer to be overall useful instead of a gimmick classes based around a few powerful abilities. Currently the later is preventing some help to the former IMO. Not that mesmer is helpless or anything atm. It’s not.

Are you suggesting that the Focus4 pull is a gimmick that the Mesmer class depends on? It really isn’t that powerful. It is nice, but people don’t equip a Focus for the pull, most people equip Focus because it is our only way of providing Swiftness, as bad as a ground targeted line giving a boon is.

If you are seeing a lot of people using Focus, rest assured it is not because Into the Void is some amazingly broken skill that makes it into every build because it is so powerful (see Shadow Refuge/Signet of Shadows on Thief), it is mostly just a nice little bonus to make the Focus not as painful for those of us that don’t reflect with Focus skills.

Having re-read your OP Rala, perhaps i was being a bit picky. On the other hand i’m sure you can see how i arrived at my conclusion from this sentence: “It is perfectly fine to pull with this, but the radius of the pull is quite large atm allowing you to pull people far beyond LOS” which implies that we should need LoS to pull people.

In my opinion though, i can’t respect something if it’s easy to do on every class (bar necro- 1 40 sec knockdown on an elite skill, no launches, a couple of 1-sec fears, 1.5 s traited…)- i can appreciate the fun side of it tho :p

The other thing is that mesmers are ‘encouraged’ to use certain builds because they are simply better/faster/more efficient/less hassle than others (mantras for example) and as a result, some skills/traits are over-emphasised due to lack of choice. This has the effect of making the class appear gimmicky when in fact it lacks build variety.

I’m wondering if OP wasn’t the guy I pulled off the wall and watched splat to death at my feet. He was just standing on the lip begging for a pull-down. I was so busy laughing, I got killed by the 3 other people that were pulled down with him.

As fun as it is, I do kind of agree with the OP. What’s the point in having walls when the advantage goes to the attacker? Walls have several strategic purposes, one of which is to permit besieged folk to perch and shoot down below with relative impunity. Once a method develops where walls can be rendered ineffective (eg. high-powered artillery historically), people stop building walls around towns.

So, since we’re stuck with walls, it would make sense to have defenders benefit from having walls; ie. I’d give back the toss a GS anywhere feature IF you’re perched on a wall. Similar stuff for other classes. It’s absurdly hard to perch now with any class. The advantage is all for the attackers.

Walls don’t really even make sense now when they protect a waypoint. Once a keep is besieged, you can’t use the waypoint, which makes is useless as a reinforcement feature. And, one player can shut down a waypoint for a LONG time. Walls make no sense now from an internal consistency standpoint as a direct result of the GS nerf combined with the various pull down skills.

Ralathar.7236:

I just want mesmer to be overall useful instead of a gimmick classes based around a few powerful abilities. Currently the later is preventing some help to the former IMO. Not that mesmer is helpless or anything atm. It’s not.

Currently that’s just speculation on your part. The game is still young enough that real in depth class balancing hasn’t started to pour in yet. These things take time. In every MMO ever, it always has. That’s it. It’s not because the two people on class changes are sitting there going “But they have Temporal Curtain. It’s too good. They don’t need any changes. Next.”

Kirrund.2654:

Ralathar.7236:

I just want mesmer to be overall useful instead of a gimmick classes based around a few powerful abilities. Currently the later is preventing some help to the former IMO. Not that mesmer is helpless or anything atm. It’s not.

Currently that’s just speculation on your part. The game is still young enough that real in depth class balancing hasn’t started to pour in yet. These things take time. In every MMO ever, it always has. That’s it. It’s not because the two people on class changes are sitting there going “But they have Temporal Curtain. It’s too good. They don’t need any changes. Next.”

Mesmer has many powerful abilities outside of that focus pull, though believe me used in a coordinated group the focus pull is incredibly powerful. Mesmer/guardian AOE pull chains are starting to become common, causing people to be bounced around like ping pong balls during fights unless they have stability.

But lets look at some other abilities:

Time Warp: Quickness for 10 seconds in an AOE that affects 5 people. Unlike every other classes quickness it doesn’t come with any drawbacks like no endurance, increased damage taken, or inability to receive healing. Oh, and it’s also a combo field, WHAT? This skill is blatantly overpowered.

Mass invisibility: A quick cast 5 second invisibility with 1200 radius. Can be chained with veil for those that realize you have another mass stealth skill.

Moa Morph: Depriving your foe of all their skills for 10 seconds is incredibly powerful.

Portal: I don’t think I even need to explain the power of portals. This is being watched heavily and may receive additional nerfs, most likely limiting it to 5 people.

Self stealth, clones, teleportation: Utilizing these three things in combination you can easily confound your foes. Even experienced players will have difficulty killing the real you unless it is a solo 1 on 1. Even then it’s not exactly easy with most classes if the mesmer plays right.

Reflection Madness: The mesmer hands down has the best ability to stop and reflect projectiles in the game. While I agree that temporal curtain could stand to be a bit taller the ability to reflect so much is a potent asset.

Condition/boon management: Mesmer has some of the best condition/boon management in the game.

Distortion: You can go unhittable at will with proper timing. This isn’t a big thing by itself, though helpful, considering the durations. However when combined with some of the above it’s extremely potent.

I want to stress 4 things in this.

1. Alot of this isn’t PVE oriented. Many of these advantages pay much bigger dividends in PVP than in PVE. That makes balancing rough.

2. You’ll notice most of these powerful abilities are indirect power. It’s not straight damage, defense, or healing. It’s utility, and that makes it more difficult to judge the power of something as it can very well be situational.

3. Some of these capabilities are what help keep lesser used specs from being properly viable. As times goes on some of these abilities will be tweaked down and some core abilities will likely be tweaked up.

4. People still don’t properly take advantage of many capabilities as Mesmer is a complex class. For example glamour skills can be traited to blind people. This includes null field and feedback. A trait that causes confusion when you blind a foe. (Synergy!) When traited your diversion shatter can daze groups of people.

That’s just a few of the advantages in a single trait line not often taken advantage of. People are still learning the class and more complex and powerful combos and stratagems will emerge over time.

Edit: edited for accuracy.

Ralathar.7236:

Time Warp: Quickness for 10 seconds in an AOE that isn’t limited by number. Unlike every other classes quickness it doesn’t come with any drawbacks like no endurance, increased damage taken, or inability to receive healing. Oh, and it’s also a combo field, WHAT? This skill is blatantly overpowered. Most likely fix is it will be limited to 5 people.

I’m sorry, but since you seem to not play a Mesmer, this is hilarious.
One can clearly notice you never used the skill, by the way.

(Hint: It is already limited to 5 players. )

Oh I just saw, you probably also don’t know that Mass Invisibility isn’t “Mass”. It’s 5 Player Invisibility, one of them being the Mesmer for reason of being the closest one. Veil is not “another mass stealth”, it is the only Mesmer mass stealth.

Ralathar.7236:

Portal: I don’t think I even need to explain the power of portals. This is being watched heavily and may receive additional nerfs, most likely limiting it to 5 people.

So long as it comes with a reduction of the CD down to 30-45 seconds or so, that’s exactly what we all expected would happen. The issue wasn’t the CD at all (you rarely use it more often than every 2-3 minutes anyhow), but that it was used to teleport a zerg into another, “exploiting” the culling issues.

^ Just a small reminder for you; Time warp already has a limit of 5 people. 10 second quickness on 210 second cooldown with a limit of 5 people is hardly overpowered. It’s one of the most useful elite skills no doubt, but not blatantly overpowered. It shouldn’t have drawbacks of other quickness skills considernig it’s an elite skill as well.

Edit: oops, missed it. That was for Ralathar.

time wrap is limited to 5. including being wasted on pets and illusions.

Time Warp: it does have a limit of 5 people. This is evident in dungeons where not everyone will get Quickness because Illusions can also take up a slot.

Mass Invisibility: No Mesmer uses Veil, its CD is too long to waste a utility slot on. Mass Invisibility is similar: consider the implications of an Elite skill being similar to a (weak) utility skill. Compare with Shadow Refuge. Oh, and MI has a limit of 5 targets too.

Moa Morph: have you seen the new Moa skills?

Portal: I quite agree, though mostly for WvW.

Stealth, Clones and Teleportation: Clones are the core of the profession. As for stealth and teleportation, the Mesmer doesn’t use those effects more than some professions do.

Reflection Madness: The Mesmer does indeed have the best reflection capabilities, but the only reflection skill most Mesmers use is Feedback. Masterful Reflection only works with the Distortion Shatter (rarely taken), Mirror only lasts 1 second and is a weak heal (and therefore never used), Mimic is far too gimmicky to bother with (again very rarely used), and Warden’s Feedback we’ve already talked about.

Condition/Boon Management: Have you played a Necromancer?

Distortion: Mesmer is not the only profession that can get evasion or invulnerability on demand.

Overall it feels to me that while you know the basics of the profession, you do not quite grasp its details (and the “buts” in many of our abilities). Also, you’re not going to fit all those abilities in one Mesmer, often investing in one area will force you to diminish or drop others.

Carighan.6758:

(Hint: It is already limited to 5 players. )

Correction: 5 nearest to centerpoint of TW friendly targets, including illusions, pets and npc. :<

True. Since my GF plays a Ranger, we can viably drain one of us two from Time Warp already with 3 Clones + her pet using up four of the targets.

?_?

That skill is definately very very strong.

Although instead of reducing the pull range, I think a good compromise would be to make it suck targets onto the center point instead of yanking them past the curtain, this would nerf it’s ability to fling people off walls and ledges a bit but also make it much better tool for gathering things to be aoe’d, and would work much better with iWarden.

Yay/Nay? =p

Knote.2904:

That skill is definately very very strong.

Although instead of reducing the pull range, I think a good compromise would be to make it suck targets onto the center point instead of yanking them past the curtain, this would nerf it’s ability to fling people off walls and ledges a bit but also make it much better tool for gathering things to be aoe’d, and would work much better with iWarden.

Yay/Nay? =p

That’s what it used to do in Beta, except with double the range. I loved it as it let me pull all enemies in PvP towards me to be served a helping of Blurred Frenzy.

Well, actually I think what it used to do was pull everything towards you instead of the curtain, but still.

Knote.2904:

That skill is definately very very strong.

Although instead of reducing the pull range, I think a good compromise would be to make it suck targets onto the center point instead of yanking them past the curtain, this would nerf it’s ability to fling people off walls and ledges a bit but also make it much better tool for gathering things to be aoe’d, and would work much better with iWarden.

Yay/Nay? =p

Nay!

There is nothing wrong with this skill. It is not overpowered. It does not need to be changed because some person cried that mesmers still have one thing they can do to someone on a wall in a siege if they happen to be using a specific weapon.

Knote.2904:

That skill is definately very very strong.

Although instead of reducing the pull range, I think a good compromise would be to make it suck targets onto the center point instead of yanking them past the curtain, this would nerf it’s ability to fling people off walls and ledges a bit but also make it much better tool for gathering things to be aoe’d, and would work much better with iWarden.

Yay/Nay? =p

While it sounds pretty interesting , i am not sure how other fellow mesmers, i say first fix our plenty bugs before cripling what works and is left on us.
BTW your fix would proly end into another bombing sport & infamous Warhammer online magnet/chaos rift bombing, pulling ppl into centre where already waits massive aoe dmg. And i tell you, that’s not fun:D

Xavi.6591:

Now you want us to have nothing to do at all when sieging a tower/keep/castle?

Seriously?

Well – we still could thow in the occasional time warp on the guys banging in the doors and have a dance session during its cooldown.

Ralathar.7236:

Mass invisibility: A quick cast 5 second invisibility with 1200 radius. Can be chained with veil for those that realize you have another mass stealth skill.

You never, ever played a mesmer, hm? You just looked up the skills and did not even bother to look them up properly …

“Mass” invisibility is limited to 5 people as is curtain. And how you can actually call a 1 3/4 second cast a “quick” cast is beyond me … smells of a troll psot, seriously.

Almost NOONE I know has curtain or mass invsibility on their bars – I only ever use curtain when doing suicide runs for setting a portal. Mass invisibility is a joke – almost 2 seconds cast time, 5 targets, no other benefits, using up our only elite slot … no, thank you.

Edit: Drat German <→ English versions, I did not mean curtain but veil – the invisibility thing not the speed buff/pull-of-walls thing.

Mass invis can hit more than 5 targets (the most i’ve seen at once is 9), and curtain is almost unlimited (same with veil). Anyone who thinks it’s not useful hasn’t put much effort into trying it out.

Curtain’s pull is situational, especially considering the lips of keeps/towers will prevent someone from going off the ledge. Which means it’s only useful for pulling people on the lip, or on an edge with no lip off. That might sound like it’s not a big deal but that’s 80% of the people you want to pull right there. Warden isn’t exactly the best phantasm, and as others have said the reflect on curtain is subpar. Really all the weapon is good for is swiftness out of combat and a situational pull in combat.

I make my group run the swiftness now because running focus is a waste. Let the guardians pull in open field and I can swap in the situations it is actually going to be useful.

How did you make Mass Invis hit that many targets? :o

Odaman.8359:

Mass invis can hit more than 5 targets (the most i’ve seen at once is 9), and curtain is almost unlimited (same with veil). Anyone who thinks it’s not useful hasn’t put much effort into trying it out.

That’s strange – MassInvis in my experience even get’s less than 5 because it also uses phantasms, pets, etc.

True about curtain – my bad – I play the game in German and got at least one stack of confusion on me – I meant veil, the second invisibility slot-option not the focus 4 skill.

HtFde.3856:

Odaman.8359:

Mass invis can hit more than 5 targets (the most i’ve seen at once is 9), and curtain is almost unlimited (same with veil). Anyone who thinks it’s not useful hasn’t put much effort into trying it out.

That’s strange – MassInvis in my experience even get’s less than 5 because it also uses phantasms, pets, etc.

True about curtain – my bad – I play the game in German and got at least one stack of confusion on me – I meant veil, the second invisibility slot-option not the focus 4 skill.

I’ve stealthed my guild smallman on many occasions with it, but there’s no special trick I’m doing. The only reason I can think of that it goes over the 5 person cap is that the spell is a wave (the tiny line you see shoot out around you when you cast it) and that it functions like a line field effect like curtain and veil rather than a field like time warp, null field, and chaos storm. I tend to stick with mass invis just because I’m a bit on the selfish side and the cd is far shorter than TW… making it more useful in a situation I want to rez or stop a stomp.

I too stick with Mass Invisibility, purely for my own use (although I do occasionally use it to help my allies initiate). The 90s CD is far more appealing to me than the more powerful effects of MM/TW, plus an extra stealth (albeit one with an agonisingly long cast time) is always welcome.

Please stop asking for nerfs; why is this somehow more important than the myriad of issues and bugs that still plague mesmers and other classes?

Odaman.8359:

HtFde.3856:

Odaman.8359:

Mass invis can hit more than 5 targets (the most i’ve seen at once is 9), and curtain is almost unlimited (same with veil). Anyone who thinks it’s not useful hasn’t put much effort into trying it out.

That’s strange – MassInvis in my experience even get’s less than 5 because it also uses phantasms, pets, etc.

True about curtain – my bad – I play the game in German and got at least one stack of confusion on me – I meant veil, the second invisibility slot-option not the focus 4 skill.

I’ve stealthed my guild smallman on many occasions with it, but there’s no special trick I’m doing. The only reason I can think of that it goes over the 5 person cap is that the spell is a wave (the tiny line you see shoot out around you when you cast it) and that it functions like a line field effect like curtain and veil rather than a field like time warp, null field, and chaos storm. I tend to stick with mass invis just because I’m a bit on the selfish side and the cd is far shorter than TW… making it more useful in a situation I want to rez or stop a stomp.

It’s simply bugged then. What annoys me is that people complain about the mesmer but don’t actually know how the skills work, or are supposed to work, that they mix up utility skills with elite skills, which are supposed to be strong due to their long cooldown or they wouldn’t be called “elite”, and that all the negative bugs are never mentioned, just the positive ones, although the negative ones affect a lot more of our traits and skills. Imo they should instantly nerf the portal so it can teleport only five people, but fix its duration then and undo that stupid cooldown change that didn’t actually change anything. Change the moa skill? Fine, but then also fix its duration which is now often between 3 and 6 seconds, at least in PvE. And so on.

Ralathar.7236:

Mesmer has many powerful abilities outside of that focus pull, though believe me used in a coordinated group the focus pull is incredibly powerful. Mesmer/guardian AOE pull chains are starting to become common, causing people to be bounced around like ping pong balls during fights unless they have stability.

But lets look at some other abilities:

[blah]

You obviously don’t know what you are talking about. I suggest you actually look into what you are crying nerf about before you cry nerf.

Carighan.6758:

(Hint: It is already limited to 5 players. )

Unfortunately you are incorrect. Too often I have had illusions or pets use quickness, denying a party member of quickness.

My apologies on the Time Warp, Either it was unlimited at one time during my play or it cycles who it buffs throughout the buff. Either way I misunderstood and said something erroneous. I will modify my post. It’s still very very strong but now has balance.

Mass invisibility I never said affected more than 5 targets however. I apologize If I led you to believe that through my flub on Time Warp. Glad to hear someone understands the usefulness of Veil however.

What can I say, I’m human and made a mistake.

Still point stands that Mesmer has alot of very potent abilities. Most of them are indirect skills but they are strong, and portal in WvW is more useful than any other single skill in the game and makes and breaks offenses, sieges, and keep ninjas regularly.

I’ll let this be my last post here. Arena net will sort it out and many of you will be upset then. But I think they will fix alot of the bugs and buff up some of the weaker points as well.

Well yes, we all expected a WvW-nerf to Portal. Instead we got a sPvP nerf (because the location-wise tiniest part of the game apparently deserves the biggest vote :P ), and if we’d now stack the WvW-nerf of limiting target numbers… well… the skill is already nigh unbearable to use in PvE now.

If it also gets a player-limitation while keeping it’s 90s CD, we have yet another skill for the dust bin. I don’t mind weak skills, so long as they have low CDs. I enjoy actually getting to use my skills. :S
(Elementalists suffer horrendously from the long-CD effect, too. But at least Dagger/Dagger is such an explosive playstyle on the #1-#5 skills that it doesn’t s how much, their stance-system lends itself much better to long CDs of utility/elite skills than our Clone/Shatter system does)

Carighan.6758:

I don’t mind weak skills, so long as they have low CDs. I enjoy actually getting to use my skills. :S

I absolutely agree with this. It is the reason I prefer Mass Invisibility over other Elites (unless peer pressure forces me to use Time Warp).