Guild Wars 2

So I’m mainly a tPvP player, and love my condition damage builds. Usually I run a condition/interrupt hybrid, but have been working with a full-out viable condition damage build. My question is: is Deceptive Evasion worth it? I’m usin Scepter/Torch + Staff, and my build is 20/0/25/0/25, taking Cripple on clone death and torch cooldowns, staff cooldowns and random condition on clone death, then 33% longer confusion and usually blinding befuddlement. I’ve swapped it now to 20/20/20/0/10, taking deceptive evasion. Without the extra 5 in chaos, (and since I use runes of the undead, I have about 1900 armor) I lose out on the extra 5% toughness to condition damage transfer. Then, I also lose 150 from the loss in Illusions line. Basically, I’m giving up about 300 condition damage (from 1770 to 1470) for deceptive evasion. Maybe I can rework the traits to be less dependent on spreading conditions on clone death without it? But I do love replacing my clones and watching them spread lovely conditions to my enemies. Also, is the 20 in domination worth it for torch trait? the 20% condition duration helps, and though I’d hate to part with my runes of the undead, I could get extra condition duration elsewhere.

TL;DR
Is Deceptive evasion worth 20 points in a useless tree for condition mesmers when traited for clone on-death conditions? Is the torch trait in domination worth going for with the extra 20% condition duration? Just looking for other people’s opinions/experiences with condition mesmers in tPvP (or WvW, I do a good amount of condition mesmer in WvW also.)

I run 20/20/30.
DE is absolutely worth it as well as the 20 points in dueling. More precision also mean more sharper images.
You can use DE to proc on death traits, both shines together.
20 in domination are also worth it, cond duration is amazing and you can take good traits like crippling dissipation and cleansing conflagration.

I feel your pain. That clone-on-dodge is really hard to give up. For a condition build, Sharper Images is also kind of hard to skip over.

I like 20 in Domination, even without the torch. The added vulnerability on Diversion stacks up reasonably well (especially with 30 illusion and Imbued Diversion, holy crap). I’m not really a vulnerability fan, but it does stack enough to almost matter here. The condition duration is nice, but not worth going after all by itself. The extra power is also helpful for a build that won’t be seeing a lot of it otherwise. The torch trait offers more frequent Prestige, but that’s just one condition (burning) and maybe some confusion if you get Blinding Befuddlement.

So, on the whole, I say that “nice” describes dipping into the Domination tree with a condition build. Nothing there is absolutely vital, but it offers a lot of useful little things. I would equate it to a condition build’s appetizer sampler platter. It isn’t your main meal but costs about as much as one. You certainly don’t need it, but you’ll enjoy the variety of things you get.

I love Deceptive Evasion for all the reasons levitas states, as well as for general disorientation of the enemy (I’m in stealth a lot) also sharper images is a must in my opinion. The 20 points domination is all personal preference. I use it for the condition removal on torch skills so I don’t have to use as many util slots/runs or sigils to have adequate condition removal. That being said if you account for condition removal a condi build would still work fine without the 20 in dueling, but I believe 80% condition duration is the magic number for burns if you are interested in that sort of thing, but im not sure.

You can also check varconi’s build that has 20 in inspiration and use apothecary gear (and does not use DE iirc).

With a fixed iElasticity id probably run 20 in illusion instead of domination, i would not take the current blinding befuddlement and even IC seems unappealing to me.
PU fits way too well with condition based builds.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Varconi’s. Yeah, I’ll second that. There’s also some interesting perspectives in that thread. Like, not taking Deceptive Evasion, because dodging in stealth gives away your position. It’s a build mainly for holding up in 1vX WvW scenarios (the stealth loses some usefulness in spvp where bunkers have to hold points), but I’m a fan.

I use 20-20-30 in wvwvw, I do in sppv some aswell but even If I do alot of spvp I cant say I like teh current way the spvp is build. i missing soem “capture and deliver teh flag” etc. Some otehr modes where not a bunker standing on 1 point is the key.

If the spvp had some other modes we would see more interesting builds. Like speed move builds for run with flag, burst builds to kamikaze into flag carriers etc.

Well the 20-20-30 build I use is in my guide, here is a wvwvw short vid:

/Osicat

After using CoF you can continue stacking confusion with the Confusing Combatants trait, as Keenlam pointed out on a separate thread, by simply spawning more clones. This makes DE very useful and Confusing Combatants is 25 in Dueling so it works well after taking DE. This does block you from taking both PU and a traited torch though so I’m not sure where to take it from there for my 20/20/30 build… Personally, I’ve not tried it yet, but I am curious how many players Confusing Combatants hits. I assume it’s an aoe.

I’d be curious to see how viable this is in WvW. First, clones often die almost immediately before they can run anywhere. Is their burst radius enough to hit people? Do you need to blink into the crowd to make it effective? Also, the confusion stacks are fairly short lived. Can you get enough stacks to be any better than the Confusing Enchantments trait with glamour? If you do that though then you’re really painting yourself into a corner with already being at 20/25/0/0/0 with only 25 points remaining.

@Osicat have you ever tried Spirit Watch? It’s a decent capture the flag mix with king of the hill.

Helios.3598:

After using CoF you can continue stacking confusion with the Confusing Combatants trait, as Keenlam pointed out on a separate thread, by simply spawning more clones. This makes DE very useful and Confusing Combatants is 25 in Dueling so it works well after taking DE. This does block you from taking both PU and a traited torch though so I’m not sure where to take it from there for my 20/20/30 build… Personally, I’ve not tried it yet, but I am curious how many players Confusing Combatants hits. I assume it’s an aoe.

I’d be curious to see how viable this is in WvW. First, clones often die almost immediately before they can run anywhere. Is their burst radius enough to hit people? Do you need to blink into the crowd to make it effective? Also, the confusion stacks are fairly short lived. Can you get enough stacks to be any better than the Confusing Enchantments trait with glamour? If you do that though then you’re really painting yourself into a corner with already being at 20/25/0/0/0 with only 25 points remaining.

Hi OP, just for your reference: here is the thread Helios mentioned about: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/condition-build-The-Clone-Spammer/first
The build is 10/25/10/0/25. Pretty exotic I think. Unfortunately, with this build, you don’t have much stealth to rely on or lots of toughness since you don’t go deep into Chaos trait line. But with proper positioning, your conditions will hurt a lot in every imaginable way.

@Helios, all clone death effects are AoE, from my experience, I think they have the same AoE range like shatters (Mind Wrack, CoF) though I couldn’t find any source to confirm this. Also, i don’t think Confusing Combatants is good for on-demand stacking confusions, it’s more like for keeping the enemies in almost perma-confusion.

I would argue that Deceptive Evasion is a necessity for the vast majority of condition builds. Any build using the staff for DPS really needs this trait in order to pump out clones to apply conditions. Also, this trait synergizes very well with the on-death traits for clones, since you can dodge roll out of a melee attack and get the clones to explode right in the face of whomever was attacking you. That being said, there are a few scepter-focused builds (such as Varconi’s) that don’t use the trait and are still successful.

I don’t use DE in my condition build. I don’t use Bleed on Crit Phantasms either. I rock 1v3 easily enough. Less than 3 enemies and I don’t even really have to try.

Hexxen, so what’s this condition build of yours? Link?

I’ve run 0/0/30/10/30 and 0/0/20/20/30 sets before. It can work, but I’d definitely suggest Illusionary Persona, yer losing out on a lot of possible clonegen/defense with either of those specs. 0/0/30/20/20, with CI/MP/WF/CC(or MR) could also work, I would think. Especially since yer pretty much mainlining Staff in most condi builds. IIRC, you’ll still stack around 2/3 the Bleeds of a 15+ Dueling spec, due to WoC proc-logic.
Although, I’ve not run any of those 3 specs in months. You might want to test them out, to see how they work in the current game.

Gummiplutt.7493:

Hexxen, so what’s this condition build of yours? Link?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgQQNArfWlwzipXUTsGb9IhpHBH5A/kCmLdSKK9rB-j0yAIOBRaBI1Bg8AlBFEzjKrlxioxqXwUoAq1FV7VKiWtQALWDA-w

It’s really just Varconi’s with some variation in the gear a bit to give more VIT is all. Runs great.

I am currently moving to staff + scepter torch as well.

Regarding whether 20 on Dominion is worth it; it is crystal clear that it is.

1.Double Condition Duration – 40% percent total condition duration instead of 20%.
2.20% Cooldown Reduction on Torch – Blind, Burning, Retaliation and Confusion every 24 seconds instead of 30 as well as stealth.
3.Removes two conditions every 24 seconds.

Now the hardest part is the rest.

Deceptive Evasion has both great advantages and disadvantages. I would argue that since Mesmers right now need to abuse stealth as much as possible then 20 on Duelist for that is worth every penny on it.

I personally believe the hardest part is the last 30 points. I would argue that how a mesmer spends those are due to his personal gameplay or how he feels he is efficient playing the mesmer.

For instance,

If you want to take fully advantage of “clones” then investing

1.10 on Chaos for clones to apply a condition (s) is non-negotiable.
2.10 on Illusions for confusion to last longer by 33% is non-negotiable as well.

Still it is extremely hard to decide (for me personally) the rest of the 30 points since that is extremely inter-dependent with either your playstyle (amulet, utilities) or your team contribution (what exactly does your team want you to do; i.e more supportive then Null Field every 36 seconds instead of 45).

If you can clarify to me what type of mesmer you want to be in TPvP (i.e full-condi-focused), then I should be able to help you further as well as getting more feedback from extremely experienced mesmers in TPvP.

I usually run a condition damage/interrupt focused build in tPvP, that I have a thread for here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Post-6-25-Interrupt-build-help/first#post2390081

The thread shows the many variations to the build, more defensive, more offensive, etc etc, but the build I usually run with is this one:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNArcWlwzyoHTzgGb9ICKFXX1R6hpVanWJF82FC-TsAAzCpIaS9l7LzXyvsfNEZ9xsCA

I won’t go into my favorite tPvP build, which is a DPS interrupt build as opposed to condition damage, because this thread was meant to work with condition builds….
If I go straight condition build in tPvP I usually use something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNArfWlwzKqHTzgGb9IhpHBH5AHlirXdSKK9rB-ToAAzCuIaS1krJTTymsNNqY9B

And my question is still with DE, is it really worth it? I have about 1700 condition damage with this build, so I’m melting people with conditions. I don’t usually think I have a problem surviving, so I wouldn’t need DE for the defensive side of the trait. The on-death clone traits are amazing, but I usually do fine spamming clones with my scepter that they die and spread conditions well enough as is. In the build I posted above, I don’t know what I’d take out of to give myself DE. Probably out of domination, so I wouldn’t lose condition damage, but then I have much less condition duration and the torch trait is a heavy loss in my eyes. If I used runes to make up for lost condition duration (taking 2x runes of Lyssa for the extra 10% duration, and then maybe a sigil of agony for bleeding), I still lose about 200 condition damage from the loss of runes of the undead. I don’t THINK this is as much of an issue in WvW, because I can take consumables for extra condition damage or duration, depending on which I need most.

TL;DR
Converting the above tpvp build to a WvW build, which trait line is worth taking out of for DE, and is DE even worth it for WvW? Which consumables would work well with the build to keep my stats the same if I did take out of either Domination or Illusions for DE?
Thanks!

This is what “forced” me, in a certain way, to equip a sword as MH weapon instead of the scepter.
The main issue for me using “exploding clones + clone on dodge” with scepter is: your clones are stationary.
As you could see using a MH sword, your clones will chase to death your targets.
I play mesmer since beta, mostly in spvp, and this is one of the core mechanics for my favourite build :P

Hmmm I didn’t realize that. Do the clones on dodge follow your targets as well using the sword? And do they NOT when using the scepter? I know the ones summoned with the #1 chain skill are stationary, but if I have the scepter equipped with DE will the dodge clones not move either? Thanks

The clones use MH weapon’s autoattack so they move to get in range and attack target. Thus sword clones chase down targets. Hope that clears it up for you.
Its good that scepter #1 spawns clone near target.

Duelling is anything but a useless line for condi builds.

Bleed stacking through sharper images is by far the single most important trait for a condi build, the extra precision from dueling is a boon to that goal, while DE will ensure you can keep up lots of clones at all times. With bleed stacking, clones become a major source of DPS, and the phantasmal fury trait can benefit certain phantasms immensely (ie. duellist)

3 GS clones with a decent crit rate can easily sustain 10-12 stacks of bleeding by themselves, making condition mesmers unique in that your normally harmless clones are a major source of DPS. Now, if you are managing to sustain 3 illusions without DE, then yeah – ditch it. But you’ll want to get sharper images at the very least and that’s right next to DE so… you’re only really investing 5 extra points

TheKidHenry.5732:

Hmmm I didn’t realize that. Do the clones on dodge follow your targets as well using the sword? And do they NOT when using the scepter? I know the ones summoned with the #1 chain skill are stationary, but if I have the scepter equipped with DE will the dodge clones not move either? Thanks

Yes. The clone production when you use a MH sword, will generate the “chasing clones”.

Every other clone won’t go in melee combat, so in that case you NEED to deploy them near your targets and make them explode ASAP. Imho this is a suboptimal use.

More info on scepter clone generations:

• If you have the scepter and you dodge, your clone will be create in the place where you’ve started to dodge.

• With scepter autoattack, your clone will appear in the place where the 3rd autoattack is landed.

Note that since the scepter clones are ranged, they won’t chase your target, sometimes they even move from their original spawning point.

Ryuujin.8236:

Duelling is anything but a useless line for condi builds.

Bleed stacking through sharper images is by far the single most important trait for a condi build, the extra precision from dueling is a boon to that goal, while DE will ensure you can keep up lots of clones at all times. With bleed stacking, clones become a major source of DPS, and the phantasmal fury trait can benefit certain phantasms immensely (ie. duellist)

I couldn’t say it better. I also would like to add (for this strategy) to use the RAMPAGER amulet with RABID jewel, and fill 30 into dueling. In this way you have:

• 60% critical chance
• your phantasms have 80% critical chance (Phantasmal Fury → Duelist = OP)
• your ILLUSIONS inflict bleeding almost every hit.

Excellent discussion in here. So bumping for the obvious reasons.

Ok here we go, 20-20-30 spvp with bleeding, clone spammer and s/p + scepter/t. So far Im happy, seen 17 stacks of bleed at bets so far, could prob be higer but ppl tend to die alot so hard stack more.

So far I must say deuling is not only usable for condi builds, its a CORE tree to dig into nomatter if you go staff or not. The clones and phantasm bleed applying is one of the best dmg sources, with staff iven better. For PvP to be able to spam clones and saty in stealth while things die around you is pure love.

/Osicat

Osicat.4139:

Ok here we go, 20-20-30 spvp with bleeding, clone spammer and s/p + scepter/t. So far Im happy, seen 17 stacks of bleed at bets so far, could prob be higer but ppl tend to die alot so hard stack more.

So far I must say deuling is not only usable for condi builds, its a CORE tree to dig into nomatter if you go staff or not. The clones and phantasm bleed applying is one of the best dmg sources, with staff iven better. For PvP to be able to spam clones and saty in stealth while things die around you is pure love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBOpcTRsNT8

/Osicat

using the same spec. except that I prefer combining scepter / pistol and sword / torch.

a couple of questions…
do u use duelist’s discipline or deceptive evasion? I dont like the thought of an increased cooldown on iduelist and mbullet
picking staff looks nice (and makes the choice easier for me w/o pistol), but if your opponent is smart enough he will run away.
what runes do u use? I chose 2x centaur 2x krait 2x afflicted. is there a cap with +%duration? I tought I read something like 100% would be cap…

thank you in advance!
Fairuzza

Since this is such an awesome discussion, and I love me some condi-control Mesmer action, I thought I’d throw my build into the mix as well.

The build I’ve been running is also focused on interruption and conditions: 0/15/30/0/25.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAraWlwzipXTTjGb9IhpHEH5CHNjrn9yHwNA-TkAAzEFpKyVkpIZR2iGEsqA

I do not feel as though I ever have a problem pumping out enough clones, particularly with 25 in Illusions and reduced staff cool downs. In a team environment it is pretty selfish aside from tossing around a few boons, but the primary focus is on control and condi bursting. The key is really making sure to interrupt the important skills and shut down the opponent while pistol phantasm loads up bleeds, etc. Interrupting the right opponent at the right time is really the primary group support the build offers. Arcane Thievery is just an additional emphasis on the build’s goal, allowing for stability stripping or additional condition pressure. With the long cast times of Necromancers I find it does really well against them.

Since it IS an interrupt hybrid, I find Mantra of Distraction a complete necessity for the on demand daze. Chaos Storm and Magic Bullet are used more as control options, while the Mantra really puts the shutdown icing on the cake.

Pistol here serves a duel purpose, bleed stacking and the interrupt. I do not know how the community feels about Chaotic Interruption, but in this build I have had great success with it … it allows that little extra bit of control that helps land those phantasm bleeds or buys your team that brief moment to capitalize on an incapacitated opponent that is dazed/interrupted and immobilized.

But, this IS a condi/interrupt hybrid; I wouldn’t suggest it if you just want to go full out condi damage or do not like the interrupt play style.

Osicat.4139:

Ok here we go, 20-20-30 spvp with bleeding, clone spammer and s/p + scepter/t. So far Im happy, seen 17 stacks of bleed at bets so far, could prob be higer but ppl tend to die alot so hard stack more.

So far I must say deuling is not only usable for condi builds, its a CORE tree to dig into nomatter if you go staff or not. The clones and phantasm bleed applying is one of the best dmg sources, with staff iven better. For PvP to be able to spam clones and saty in stealth while things die around you is pure love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBOpcTRsNT8

/Osicat

I do really like your website; kinda glad im discussing this with you because I do love what you do. So usually without DE I;m running with a build like this http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNArfWlwzKqHTzgGb9IhpHBH5AHlir7dSKK9rB-ToAAzCuIaS1krJTTymsNNqY9B
Sometimes I’ll swap PU for chaotic interruption, sometimes move 10 into domination for the stun on daze trait. I love both of those builds, and it seems to lose a good 300 condition damage when traiting for DE. I’m really just wondering which does a better job wiping people on the ground. Is the extra clone production, (with on death traits, etc) enough sustainable damage to match that extra 300 condition damage? The build I use does a nice job not only bursting conditions but also surviving easily and locking down single opponents. I’d say that suffices well enough for “support”… though as the person above me said also, this type of build is sort of selfish. Does putting DE in and having those extra clones make you a better team supporter?

Allarius.5670:

Since this is such an awesome discussion, and I love me some condi-control Mesmer action, I thought I’d throw my build into the mix as well.

The build I’ve been running is also focused on interruption and conditions: 0/15/30/0/25.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAraWlwzipXTTjGb9IhpHEH5CHNjrn9yHwNA-TkAAzEFpKyVkpIZR2iGEsqA

I do not feel as though I ever have a problem pumping out enough clones, particularly with 25 in Illusions and reduced staff cool downs. In a team environment it is pretty selfish aside from tossing around a few boons, but the primary focus is on control and condi bursting. The key is really making sure to interrupt the important skills and shut down the opponent while pistol phantasm loads up bleeds, etc. Interrupting the right opponent at the right time is really the primary group support the build offers. Arcane Thievery is just an additional emphasis on the build’s goal, allowing for stability stripping or additional condition pressure. With the long cast times of Necromancers I find it does really well against them.

Since it IS an interrupt hybrid, I find Mantra of Distraction a complete necessity for the on demand daze. Chaos Storm and Magic Bullet are used more as control options, while the Mantra really puts the shutdown icing on the cake.

Pistol here serves a duel purpose, bleed stacking and the interrupt. I do not know how the community feels about Chaotic Interruption, but in this build I have had great success with it … it allows that little extra bit of control that helps land those phantasm bleeds or buys your team that brief moment to capitalize on an incapacitated opponent that is dazed/interrupted and immobilized.

But, this IS a condi/interrupt hybrid; I wouldn’t suggest it if you just want to go full out condi damage or do not like the interrupt play style.

Its great to see another mesmer playing with interrupts! I’m sure you saw that our builds are very similar. On the note of Chaotic Interruption, I love the trait… especially with a sigil of battle, I’m usually between 10 and 20 stacks of might at all times! I just weigh that against staff cooldowns, but usually I’ll trait for phantasms anyway so its not too bad. I’ll usually build slightly more toughness, definitely runes of the undead as opposed to getting some condition duration on there with runes to make up for it. Which do you think is more viable?

Osicat.4139:

Ok here we go, 20-20-30 spvp with bleeding, clone spammer and s/p + scepter/t. So far Im happy, seen 17 stacks of bleed at bets so far, could prob be higer but ppl tend to die alot so hard stack more.
…
/Osicat

As always, very entertaining. I have been running 0/20/30/20/0 a lot lately, with either Sc/Torch & Staff or going for more interrupt/boons with BI + Staff & GS. All of these builds are tanky condie-builds (<8 PU) with lots of stealth and are hella fun right now.

After watching your video I changed to your build, but I kept BI with +60% Might duration from runes (and +30% Boon duration from Chaos of course), and I have to say this too is a fun build!

I’m feel slightly squishier running your build, but with near perma-Protection and ~2k Toughness, it’s hardly squishy at all. That’s what I like about it, it balances offense with defense nicely, and the condie removal from Torch is very nice as this was a key weakness of my above builds. (With only 1 removal off heal, just not good enough in today’s Condie-heavy PvP game.)

Even with your build I still manage to easily get 9-12 stacks of Might up in most 1v1s, and that means that both POW and Condi damage are putting up nice numbers. I feel that this is a key benefit of these condie-tank builds. A high crit chance is baked right in “for free” and this makes Might work twice as effective when compared to Soldier-based tank build with low Crit chance. With enough Might you end up getting decent enough POW to make crits hurt very nicely even from DD attacks, and with all of the condie DoTs on top it really ads up fast.

The synergy just works very well here to produce quite decent single-target DPS output in a tanky and very slippery platform. It’s a lot of fun in sPvP for point control, and I’ve been getting quite a bit of hate from enemies about it. :-) (No bigger compliment then that! haha!)

Nice video Osi!

I believe this is an interesting build as well.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNArfWlwzKqHTTnGb9IhZGEH5oZcdvTShqfNA-TsAAzCpIaS1krJTTymsNNqYVxUAA

Phase Retreat – 6 seconds.
Phantasm Warlock – 10 seconds.
Phantasmal Mage – 18 seconds.
Decoy – 24 seconds.
Blink – 24 seconds.
Illusion of Life – 100 seconds

Cooldown reduction on Mesmer’s Tree is a wowfactor.

By the way 6x Runes of the Undead vs 4x Runes of Nightmare + 2x Runes of Lysa?

Im wondering how you can spec for phantasm damage and attack recharge speed.
Phantasmal haste would (probably) worth it if you use iElasticity and iMage, stacking 6 confusion at time. iWarlock is arguably the worst phantasm you can have in a condition build, if you run rabid its near to useless.
Also, id rather prefer PU and DE instead of IC. By far.
I never tried 4 nightmare and 2 lyssa because undead works well and they are cheap, melandru is also a valid option.

edit: forgot sharper images, those three traits simply outshine 25 points in illusions.

That said, the idea to go deep in illusions is not that bad. iElasticity could do a huge difference if it would work with staff clones and id probably go for 0/20/30/0/20. Oh it would be perfect.

This post is very similar to the one I opened few days ago about DE and it ended up with Psych and Nuka Cola arguing (probably due to some old rust between the two)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Can-you/first#post2491257

Anyway, DE is a great talent whichever way you look at it but I hate being forced to pick it up so I am trying to get used to play without it. And the result seems ok for now

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQRAra8flwzipXUzgGb9IhpH923An0DV76XXqAuB-T4Ag0CtICSFkLITQygsBNIYJy+jTATReBA

I tried to pump the max power possible while having good survival. Crit is the down side in this build but my duelist really hits like a truck!!!

Nice thing about it is how easily and reliably I can stack might due to Bountiful Interruption+Domination sigil, pistol #5 and runes. Also, a minimum of 2 stealth (depending which elite you choose it could be 3) with PU makes it a great build for controlling the game. Not much to do with conditions thought, but I felt it is intersting for you guys to evaluate.

I was running an odd 0/20/20/20/10 ret/mantra build last night and got beat in a duel against a condi mesmer. He was running Staff + Scepter/Focus I think and I’m fairly certain he ran DE. I did not check his build unfortunately, but I don’t recall seeing any glamours. That makes me think he had something like a 0/20/20/0/30 build with condition runes.

TheKidHenry.5732:

Its great to see another mesmer playing with interrupts! I’m sure you saw that our builds are very similar. On the note of Chaotic Interruption, I love the trait… especially with a sigil of battle, I’m usually between 10 and 20 stacks of might at all times! I just weigh that against staff cooldowns, but usually I’ll trait for phantasms anyway so its not too bad. I’ll usually build slightly more toughness, definitely runes of the undead as opposed to getting some condition duration on there with runes to make up for it. Which do you think is more viable?

I think you might be confusing Bountiful Interruption with Chaotic Interruption, but I could be misreading you. Chaotic Interruption is the 30 point trait that immobilizes your target and applies blind, cripple, or chill on a successful interrupt. I have not been able to give up reduced staff cool downs for Bountiful Interruption, but I may have to give it a shot based on your suggestion.

I think in this case the rune selection is really just a matter of personal preference and play style. I don’t think you could go wrong by selecting undead for a condi build at all. I am actually using Lyssa more so for the additional precision and the 6 rune benefit; the additional condi duration is really just a side benefit. For me, I like being able to use Mass Invisibility as a full reset and I feel that the 6 rune benefit from Lyssa allows this.

The additional toughness from undead would certainly help with surviving an onslaught of burst whereas being able to drop all condis from Lyssa would help against opposing condis, in addition to Arcane Thievery. I find Illusionary Retreat, Illusionary Counter, and Chaos Armor to be sufficient for surviving burst in addition to the interrupt play style and standard Mesmer fare (Distortion, Blink, etc.).

OK.

I Tweeked my condition build some now for wvwvw. Ressult is silly good. Dmg is exact where I want it to be and toughness is over 2k.

Enjoy.

/Osicat

PS @The KidHenry, The dmg gaind from the clones is absolutley worth the condi dmg. You also get dmg form otehr sources aswell. A side effect aswell is that alot of ppl cats things that due to stealth and autotargeting lan on your clones. Its a nightmare for necros for example.

Its not a extremly good capper idd for sPvP, but the fun factor make it worth it. Tbh I not a big fan of he current sPvP setup with capping points as only game mode. The best class in game would be a freking tree with protetcion and retaliation who cant and wont move. I would like to se game modes who give mobile classes a jobb, capture the flag etc.

@osi

why do you feel sword/pistol & scepter/torch is better than sword/torch & scepter/pistol? I cannot really make up my mind about it as I keep swapping but moving towards the latter eventually…

@Trooper, alot due to the tortch blast. I often use the torch to stealth, cast its phantasm and then move close to a enemy in a combat situation hittin scepter nr 2,s block. This Often ressult in they hit my block in stealth get the tormen applied just as the burn hits and the image condusion tock. After this I swap to s/p to utilice the sword nr 2 immunity while my revealed buff is up, as soon its away I stealth again and cast a iduelist in stealth.

This combo put a extreme preasure on a enemy players from seveal differen conditions and the only few sec he accualy can hit back I have a immunity up.

Also this give a good set of defensive / offenive gameplay. Torch + scepter give you condi removal, block and stealth, I use this when I in agroup situation is preasured. Swird/pistol is a stunbarker, a stun/interupt + immobelice. I use this for offensive gameplay.

I also always in wvwvw when about to fight 3+ players alternative a camp swap the sword/pistol to staff. As stealth is so easy accesable in the build its easy to swap depending on what you going to fight. but pistol is and remain a lesser alterative for gourp fights as its primary dmg is single target. For a 1-2 vs 1 its pure gold thu.

/Osicat

Very nice Osi, that’s a good idea about swapping to staff if you see it’s going to be a bigger brawl. I do miss the survivability of the staff sometimes, but the s/p & scp/t setup is very nice.

Oh and I do agree with you, it borders on silly, but is a very refreshing & fun change of play-style that fits the Mesmer class well IMO.

Allarius.5670:

TheKidHenry.5732:

Its great to see another mesmer playing with interrupts! I’m sure you saw that our builds are very similar. On the note of Chaotic Interruption, I love the trait… especially with a sigil of battle, I’m usually between 10 and 20 stacks of might at all times! I just weigh that against staff cooldowns, but usually I’ll trait for phantasms anyway so its not too bad. I’ll usually build slightly more toughness, definitely runes of the undead as opposed to getting some condition duration on there with runes to make up for it. Which do you think is more viable?

I think you might be confusing Bountiful Interruption with Chaotic Interruption, but I could be misreading you. Chaotic Interruption is the 30 point trait that immobilizes your target and applies blind, cripple, or chill on a successful interrupt. I have not been able to give up reduced staff cool downs for Bountiful Interruption, but I may have to give it a shot based on your suggestion.

I think in this case the rune selection is really just a matter of personal preference and play style. I don’t think you could go wrong by selecting undead for a condi build at all. I am actually using Lyssa more so for the additional precision and the 6 rune benefit; the additional condi duration is really just a side benefit. For me, I like being able to use Mass Invisibility as a full reset and I feel that the 6 rune benefit from Lyssa allows this.

The additional toughness from undead would certainly help with surviving an onslaught of burst whereas being able to drop all condis from Lyssa would help against opposing condis, in addition to Arcane Thievery. I find Illusionary Retreat, Illusionary Counter, and Chaos Armor to be sufficient for surviving burst in addition to the interrupt play style and standard Mesmer fare (Distortion, Blink, etc.).

Chaotic Interruption rules – good discussion on that trait used in power and condition builds in this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-ChillRuption

I’ve personally been using combinations of condition duration runes and giver’s weapons (even on the power build). Runes of Ice work well, too.

skcamow.3527:

Allarius.5670:

TheKidHenry.5732:

Its great to see another mesmer playing with interrupts! I’m sure you saw that our builds are very similar. On the note of Chaotic Interruption, I love the trait… especially with a sigil of battle, I’m usually between 10 and 20 stacks of might at all times! I just weigh that against staff cooldowns, but usually I’ll trait for phantasms anyway so its not too bad. I’ll usually build slightly more toughness, definitely runes of the undead as opposed to getting some condition duration on there with runes to make up for it. Which do you think is more viable?

I think you might be confusing Bountiful Interruption with Chaotic Interruption, but I could be misreading you. Chaotic Interruption is the 30 point trait that immobilizes your target and applies blind, cripple, or chill on a successful interrupt. I have not been able to give up reduced staff cool downs for Bountiful Interruption, but I may have to give it a shot based on your suggestion.

I think in this case the rune selection is really just a matter of personal preference and play style. I don’t think you could go wrong by selecting undead for a condi build at all. I am actually using Lyssa more so for the additional precision and the 6 rune benefit; the additional condi duration is really just a side benefit. For me, I like being able to use Mass Invisibility as a full reset and I feel that the 6 rune benefit from Lyssa allows this.

The additional toughness from undead would certainly help with surviving an onslaught of burst whereas being able to drop all condis from Lyssa would help against opposing condis, in addition to Arcane Thievery. I find Illusionary Retreat, Illusionary Counter, and Chaos Armor to be sufficient for surviving burst in addition to the interrupt play style and standard Mesmer fare (Distortion, Blink, etc.).

Chaotic Interruption rules – good discussion on that trait used in power and condition builds in this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-ChillRuption

I’ve personally been using combinations of condition duration runes and giver’s weapons (even on the power build). Runes of Ice work well, too.

@Allarius, I did mean Bountiful Interruption. I usually go with Staff reduction, but in some builds I find that my toughness is fine as is, and the cooldowns don’t affect me too much. The boost from BI is noticeable, to both survivability and damage perspectives. Although, Chaotic Interruption is an AMAZING trait also. My usual condition damage/interrupt build uses 20-20-30 using CI and BI. Sometimes I go 20-0-30-0-20, and thats really the two builds I’m testing out. Whether DE is really worth it or not, why I made the post ;D The builds are posted above, or in my other posts, but you should try them both out. 30-20-20 also works well, and is up there as an alternativie, though I usually use that with my DPS interrupt build though.

@Osi I’m gonna have to test it out. Like I said to Allarius, both my 20-20-30 and 20-0-30-0-20 builds are great condition builds, and I usually trait them for interruts (at least in sPvP). If you have time, try them out and tell me if you think DE is worth it for the build, and also which runes would be good for each? Maybe to make up for the loss of DE or loss of x, y, z.
Thanks!

Osicat.4139:

OK.

I Tweeked my condition build some now for wvwvw. Ressult is silly good. Dmg is exact where I want it to be and toughness is over 2k.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2wMSJhC8EE

Enjoy.

/Osicat

PS @The KidHenry, The dmg gaind from the clones is absolutley worth the condi dmg. You also get dmg form otehr sources aswell. A side effect aswell is that alot of ppl cats things that due to stealth and autotargeting lan on your clones. Its a nightmare for necros for example.

Its not a extremly good capper idd for sPvP, but the fun factor make it worth it. Tbh I not a big fan of he current sPvP setup with capping points as only game mode. The best class in game would be a freking tree with protetcion and retaliation who cant and wont move. I would like to se game modes who give mobile classes a jobb, capture the flag etc.

I clicked the link assuming it went to an actual build site. Haha, silly me!

@Helios, build you can find eather in the top sticky on this forum or the shatter cat homepage:

http://osicat.weebly.com/guide.html

/Osicat

i would like to refresh my question about the bleed duration…
my current bleed duration: 40%food+20%traits+45%runes+10%sigil —> 115% bleed duration
based on 5 seconds of the bleed on cit this should result in 11 seconds (10,75 rounded up)
tests showed only 9 seconds??? reducing the -bleed duration from 115 to 70% showed no change…
anybody can confirm or correct this?

Osicat.4139:

@Trooper, alot due to the tortch blast. I often use the torch to stealth, cast its phantasm and then move close to a enemy in a combat situation hittin scepter nr 2,s block. This Often ressult in they hit my block in stealth get the tormen applied just as the burn hits and the image condusion tock. After this I swap to s/p to utilice the sword nr 2 immunity while my revealed buff is up, as soon its away I stealth again and cast a iduelist in stealth.

This combo put a extreme preasure on a enemy players from seveal differen conditions and the only few sec he accualy can hit back I have a immunity up.

Also this give a good set of defensive / offenive gameplay. Torch + scepter give you condi removal, block and stealth, I use this when I in agroup situation is preasured. Swird/pistol is a stunbarker, a stun/interupt + immobelice. I use this for offensive gameplay.

I also always in wvwvw when about to fight 3+ players alternative a camp swap the sword/pistol to staff. As stealth is so easy accesable in the build its easy to swap depending on what you going to fight. but pistol is and remain a lesser alterative for gourp fights as its primary dmg is single target. For a 1-2 vs 1 its pure gold thu.

/Osicat

Can you tell me which runes, sigils and amulet you used in your spvp video you posted earlier? I usually go with superior battle+crit in first set and superior battle+energy on the “defensive” set. Amulet I used Soldier for long time. Switched to berserker lately. Runes I tend to use Hoelbrak, Strength or Ogre… the rockdog is so cute

ty