Guild Wars 2

I’ve been looking for the highest theoretical burst in the game, and someone suggested I should look into glass cannon mesmers. I’ve never actually seen a decent mesmer burst, but I figured I should probably ask the experts. So, does mesmer burst exist, how does it work and how would you push it to its absolute limits?

For comparison’s sake, the highest elementalist burst we’ve come up with did 94k damage. No pressure! :P
(Main thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/The-Highest-Theoretical-Burst/)

Rules:
- Time limit is one second, starting from first tick of damage done.
- No external buffs
- There is no RNG – everything goes perfectly. Every skill deals the highest possible damage it can do, and everything with a % chance to proc will proc.

Highest possible burst would be a 6 clone shatter (3x diversion for 25 stacks of vulnerability + 4 mind wrack, 3 clones + yourself) while blurred frenzying.
I have no idea how much damage it would be but it should be possible in one second from first damage.
+25% damage from vulnerability. Vulnerability is applied with 0 damage dealt.

Another possibility would be close range traited mirror blade into dodge + mind wrack.
EDIT: And there is burst possibility in mesmer.
I’ve seen some crazy stuff done and did some crazy stuff myself.
One of the most impressive things I’ve seen is Bamf Joe bursting down a necros full deathshroud and full HP down in like 3 seconds post A15th.
There was a video but it’s taken down now due to copyright.

One of the best burst I have seen is from Vashy

http://youtu.be/elvgwG8CCKo @ 1:15

I think he downed 3 ppl at once. I found it almost hilarious

Hmm… IZerker→mirror blade→swap→iswordsman→mind wrack maybe throw in a mantra of pain

Well, going by the video trooper linked it looks like a 20k+ burst, so I’d say it’s worth seeing how far we can push it.

So far we have two burst rotations. Mesmer is one of my least played classes, but I imagine Mantra of Pain and The Prestige might give us a little bit of additional damage. Anything else we should add?

Rotations so far:
3x Diversion (25 vuln) → Prestige → Blurred Frenzy → Mind Wrack → Power Spike (Mantra of Pain activation)
Prestige → Mirror Blade → Dodge → Mind Wrack → Power Spike

Anything to add there?

Then there’s the build – we’ll want all ascended berserker and scholar runes, but I have no idea how we should trait this thing, and I don’t really see any obvious utility choices either, apart from additional clones.

Basically, how should we trait for the highest possible burst, and what utilities should we bring?

Prestige -> 3x Diversion (25 vuln) -> Power Spike (Mantra of Pain activation) -> Mirror Images -> Dodge -> Battle Roar -> Blurred Frenzy -> Mind Wrack -> Power Spike (Mantra of Pain activation).

Edit.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhIQNAsf2ENttTNmoNSrxg6tuaKSGwBl8jqB-T1BBABYt/o8DgTAgHHBg80HMq6PQ8AAOTJYAAEArX9qX9qX9szduzduzdWKgRFWB-w

100% crit chance. Highest MW hit possible in shortest time.
+9%, +20%, +10% and +33% (Persona cf. Wiki) on MW.

Second Edit.

Can’t see anything better than what i’ve come up with. Sigil of Inteligence is only 3 hits. We do multi hit with BF.

uhh since we’re assuming best possible rng, we dont have to take any skills or traits that boost crit chance.

and since the clock only starts at the first instance of damage, we can use time warp to get more skills in.

i think this would be the ideal build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhQQNAsfBFlutTNmohatRUNGU31XrRyDCokdsNA-TFCBABQ8AAqU9nzUCi1+jyPAOBA5pPIgjAgeHCgAAIAWPgbezbezbezSBMwwK-w

order would be:

time warp, mirror images, F3, technobabble, power spike, mirror blade, izerker, powerspike, dodge, F1, F2.

the clock starts count at mirror blade, power spike and the shatters are instant cast, so they are performed during dodge and skills.

note that you don’t have time to use prestige since the damage occurs at the end of the skill.

You can precast prestige and have it hit when rotation starts.

Well… my theory applies for real game. If everything crits then why go into Dueling line at all?

Miku Lawrence.6329:

You can precast prestige and have it hit when rotation starts.

Well… my theory applies for real game. If everything crits then why go into Dueling line at all?

oh yeah, thats true.

edit: actually this build is better, you don’t need to get a 4x shatter, the mantras combined with wastrels punishment gives better damage.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhQQNAsfRl0npGtdqxENUrNiqhg6ufXT6DBiUqOA-T1RBABXt/o8DP9BAcEAy7UA8wDAgS1fMTJYAAEAn38m38m38czbezbezbWKgBGWB-w

Decoy instead of techno babble.

+15% to illusion damage doesn’t do anything for the build.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Decoy instead of techno babble.

+15% to illusion damage doesn’t do anything for the build.

15% illusion damage boosts izerker’s damage. which is huge.

so the new order would be:

time warp, prestige, ileap, mirror images, F3, power lock (25 vuln at this point), (timer starts here) power spike, mirror blade, izerker, powerspike, F1, F2.

Didn’t see that you’re using it. Target in a corner (like in AC) then so all hits hit. You can try a Swordsman after Prestige for more burst.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Didn’t see that you’re using it. Target in a corner (like in AC) then so all hits hit. You can try a Swordsman after Prestige for more burst.

yeah, problem is not enough time to cast swordman, mirror blade, and izerker. you can only do 2 of the three.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Well… my theory applies for real game. If everything crits then why go into Dueling line at all?

For the ferocity. Going all the way into dueling gives us 20% critical damage, which is huge when everything crits. Then again, we’d have to give up lots of + damage % traits to get there, so I’m not sure if that would be worth the trade.

@Wads That’s starting to look pretty good. I’ll wait until tomorrow, but if no further improvements are added I’ll google around for skill coefficients, feed the numbers into my Java thingy and see what kind of burst comes out

yski.7642:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Well… my theory applies for real game. If everything crits then why go into Dueling line at all?

For the ferocity. Going all the way into dueling gives us 20% critical damage, which is huge when everything crits. Then again, we’d have to give up lots of + damage % traits to get there, so I’m not sure if that would be worth the trade.

@Wads That’s starting to look pretty good. I’ll wait until tomorrow, but if no further improvements are added I’ll google around for skill coefficients, feed the numbers into my Java thingy and see what kind of burst comes out

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhIQNAsf2ENttTNmoNSrxg6tuaKSGwBl8jqB-T1BBABYt/o8DgTAgHHBg80HMq6PQ8AAOTJYAAEArX9qX9qX9szduzduzdWKgRFWB-w

That’s what I did. 20 in Dueling.

Skill coef’s are almost all wrong by the way, don’t trust the wiki.

in 20/20/0/0/30 shatter build with illusinary elsticity

torch 4, go close to enemy, use gs2 and dodge at same time and use mindwrack during dodge

its 1 sec, brings glassy ppl down right away

shatter builds ftw

Miku Lawrence.6329:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhIQNAsf2ENttTNmoNSrxg6tuaKSGwBl8jqB-T1BBABYt/o8DgTAgHHBg80HMq6PQ8AAOTJYAAEArX9qX9qX9szduzduzdWKgRFWB-w

That’s what I did. 20 in Dueling.

Skill coef’s are almost all wrong by the way, don’t trust the wiki.

I should be able to calculate the weapon skill coefficients from the tooltips based on
Tooltip damage = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (level-based Armor value),
and I can also get a reasonable approximation on utilities and what not using similar methods, though a reliable list of skill coefficients would be better. I calculated Mug coefficient this way, and the values seemed to vary slightly after a few decimal places, so I suspect the “inherent” weapon strength I used for it was slightly off, or there was something wonky going on due to it being a trait. Does anyone have any handy links they’d like to share?

As for your build, you’re investing heavily in precision, which we don’t really need for our RNG free burst. It’s great for real world bursts, but that’s not what we’re looking for here.

You do bring up a good point with the trait point distribution though, but looking at the numbers, you’d give up +17% damage for +6% critical damage, so it does end up not being worth it after all.

yski.7642:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhIQNAsf2ENttTNmoNSrxg6tuaKSGwBl8jqB-T1BBABYt/o8DgTAgHHBg80HMq6PQ8AAOTJYAAEArX9qX9qX9szduzduzdWKgRFWB-w

That’s what I did. 20 in Dueling.

Skill coef’s are almost all wrong by the way, don’t trust the wiki.

I should be able to calculate the weapon skill coefficients from the tooltips based on
Tooltip damage = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (level-based Armor value),
and I can also get a reasonable approximation on utilities and what not using similar methods, though a reliable list of skill coefficients would be better. I calculated Mug coefficient this way, and the values seemed to vary slightly after a few decimal places, so I suspect the “inherent” weapon strength I used for it was slightly off, or there was something wonky going on due to it being a trait. Does anyone have any handy links they’d like to share?

As for your build, you’re investing heavily in precision, which we don’t really need for our RNG free burst. It’s great for real world bursts, but that’s not what we’re looking for here.

You do bring up a good point with the trait point distribution though, but looking at the numbers, you’d give up +17% damage for +6% critical damage, so it does end up not being worth it after all.

Don’t trust tooltips ingame, they’re often wrong. However, the wiki skill coefficients are all correct down to a couple decimal places. I’ve tested everything personally, and they all line up (except phantasms, don’t trust phantasm coefficients).

Not sure if this falls into the rules of the game, but what if you have three phantasms all timed to do their attacks within the one-second window (maybe 3 iZerkers) and then you add in Prestige pre-cast, blurred frenzy, mantra of pain, and shatter at the end of the second?

It’s certainly not the same as the question of what’s the highest 1-second burst starting from a cold start. But something like that is likely the highest burst within a 1-second window.

Before iWarden as buffed aka nerfed I was running a nasty lock down build.

The rotation went like this:
Temporal Curtain —> MoD —> iWarden —> Curtain Pull —> Leap —> Frenzy —> Full Mind Wrack (assuming you dodged a few times near the beginning). Add in the second MoD near the end if they try anything fishy.

Sometimes, I would catch multiple people in the full on attack.

Asuming you would be allowed to get 3 clones on the target before burst, it will come down to:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsfBl0npKt1oxEtRSNEU/NcbSnIwkSB-TVROwAjU+BY/Bi6DAr+jMlgBAQA4m38m38m3sUARsMC-w (Sigils could be battle & the crit one or w/e)

Charge all mantra’s – Spawn 3 clones – The prestige – F3 – Swap – Mirror Images – Mirror Blade – Mantra of pain + Mind Wrack + F2.

I admit the no damaging the target before the burst rule is a little bit arbitrary, but I’d like to stick to it for now, which basically means getting those pre-burst clones or phantasms is a little bit tricky.

Fay.2357:

Don’t trust tooltips ingame, they’re often wrong. However, the wiki skill coefficients are all correct down to a couple decimal places. I’ve tested everything personally, and they all line up (except phantasms, don’t trust phantasm coefficients).

Agreed on the tooltips often being wrong, but since the damage numbers vary with power they are being calculated on the fly somehow, so I believe the tooltip damage wiki formula should give us decent results. I’d love to test things via steady weapons instead, but they ceased to exists when they improved sPvP. Thanks, I guess..

Good to hear the wiki should be more or less reliable though – having to calculate everything isn’t fun.

Just to note that the pre-damage restriction affects a lot to the mesmer burst, a big part of our damage comes from illusions, so we need time to set everything to deal our biggest burst.

Anyway, my combination would be:
Time Warp, Power Lock, The Prestige, Power Lock, Diversion, iZerker, Mirror Blade (Start doing damage, also iZerker), Power Spike, Blurred Frenzy, Mind Wrack, Miror Images, Cry of Frustration, Distortion, Power Spike.
Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhQQNAsfRl0npGtdqxENUrNiqhg6ufXT6DBiUqSA-T1RBABXt/o8DP9BLcEAy7UAAwDAgS1fMTJYAAEAn38m38m38czbezbezbWKgHGWB-w
Tips:
- Nearly all burst is done with 24 stacks of vulnerability.
- You should count 6/8 hits of Blurred frenzy, as it fully last 1,5s with quickness (coefficient is from full 8 hits).
- You also have to count +200 power from Plate of Truffle Steak Dinner, so initial power is 3088.
- Might stack is really difficult to calculate, since shatters are done while hitting with Blurred Frenzy.

Ansau.7326:

Just to note that the pre-damage restriction affects a lot to the mesmer burst, a big part of our damage comes from illusions, so we need time to set everything to deal our biggest burst.

Anyway, my combination would be:
Time Warp, Power Lock, The Prestige, Power Lock, Diversion, iZerker, Mirror Blade (Start doing damage, also iZerker), Power Spike, Blurred Frenzy, Mind Wrack, Miror Images, Cry of Frustration, Distortion, Power Spike.
Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhQQNAsfRl0npGtdqxENUrNiqhg6ufXT6DBiUqSA-T1RBABXt/o8DP9BLcEAy7UAAwDAgS1fMTJYAAEAn38m38m38czbezbezbWKgHGWB-w
Tips:
- Nearly all burst is done with 24 stacks of vulnerability.
- You should count 6/8 hits of Blurred frenzy, as it fully last 1,5s with quickness (coefficient is from full 8 hits).
- You also have to count +200 power from Plate of Truffle Steak Dinner, so initial power is 3088.
- Might stack is really difficult to calculate, since shatters are done while hitting with Blurred Frenzy.

pretty sure 10% damage is better than 200 power.

also with your rotation you’re losing out of 3% damage from using power lock twice.

i put mirror blade before all other damage because it gives you might stacks as well as vuln on target. i’m also pretty sure you can’t get blurred frenzy in there, there isnt enough time.

wads.5730:

pretty sure 10% damage is better than 200 power.

also with your rotation you’re losing out of 3% damage from using power lock twice.

i put mirror blade before all other damage because it gives you might stacks as well as vuln on target. i’m also pretty sure you can’t get blurred frenzy in there, there isnt enough time.

That food you use is not that good as you think. +200 power when you have 2800 is roughly a buff of 7% for damage.
Also, you forgot about the ferocity, which is nearly an extra 5% more damage.

And you waste time casting skills. With my combination, Mirror Blade, Power Spike and iZerker hits at the same time. You need to count the 0,75s of delay from phantasms.
And yes, with just 1s you won’t finish BF, but in an ideal situation, there’s enough time to do 6/8 hits. You start using BF just a fraction after the initial spike.

About my rotation, after thinking more, I forgot there’s an internal CD between shatters. Then, as all hits are crits, 30 points in Illusions only helps Mind Wrack and Mirror Blade, while putting 30 in Duels you boost all your hits.
This is how I’d change it all:

Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhQQNAsfRl0npGtVpxENUrNiqxgquI9BBERp7Y7BA-T1RBABXt/o8DP9BLcEAy7UAAwDAgS1fMTJYAAEAn38m38m38czbezbezbWKgHGWB-w

Rotation:
Time Warp, Power Lock, Dodge, Diversion, The Prestige, Power Lock, iZerker, Mirror Blade (Start doing damage, counting Mirror Blade, iZerker, Power Spike), Power Spike, Blurred Frenzy, Mind Wrack, Power Spike.

How buffs work:
Mirror Blade_1: Might= 0, Vulnerability= 18.
iZerker: Might= 0, Vulnerability= 18.
1st Power Spike: Might= 0, Vulnerability= 18.
The Prestige: Might= 3, Vulnerability= 18.
Mind Wrack (2 illusions): Might= 3, Vulnerability= 18.
Mirror Blade_2: Might= 3, Vulnerability= 21.
Blurred Frenzy 1_2: Might= 3, Vulnerability= 21.
Blurred Frenzy 3_4: Might= 6, Vulnerability= 21.
Blurred Frenzy 5_6: Might= 6, Vulnerability= 21.
2nd Power Spike: Might= 6, Vulnerability= 21.

Ansau.7326:

wads.5730:

pretty sure 10% damage is better than 200 power.

also with your rotation you’re losing out of 3% damage from using power lock twice.

i put mirror blade before all other damage because it gives you might stacks as well as vuln on target. i’m also pretty sure you can’t get blurred frenzy in there, there isnt enough time.

That food you use is not that good as you think. +200 power when you have 2800 is roughly a buff of 7% for damage.
Also, you forgot about the ferocity, which is nearly an extra 5% more damage.

And you waste time casting skills. With my combination, Mirror Blade, Power Spike and iZerker hits at the same time. You need to count the 0,75s of delay from phantasms.
And yes, with just 1s you won’t finish BF, but in an ideal situation, there’s enough time to do 6/8 hits. You start using BF just a fraction after the initial spike.

About my rotation, after thinking more, I forgot there’s an internal CD between shatters. Then, as all hits are crits, 30 points in Illusions only helps Mind Wrack and Mirror Blade, while putting 30 in Duels you boost all your hits.
This is how I’d change it all:

Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhQQNAsfRl0npGtVpxENUrNiqxgquI9BBERp7Y7BA-T1RBABXt/o8DP9BLcEAy7UAAwDAgS1fMTJYAAEAn38m38m38czbezbezbWKgHGWB-w

Rotation:
Time Warp, Power Lock, Dodge, Diversion, The Prestige, Power Lock, iZerker, Mirror Blade (Start doing damage, counting Mirror Blade, iZerker, Power Spike), Power Spike, Blurred Frenzy, Mind Wrack, Power Spike.

How buffs work:
Mirror Blade_1: Might= 0, Vulnerability= 18.
iZerker: Might= 0, Vulnerability= 18.
1st Power Spike: Might= 0, Vulnerability= 18.
The Prestige: Might= 3, Vulnerability= 18.
Mind Wrack (2 illusions): Might= 3, Vulnerability= 18.
Mirror Blade_2: Might= 3, Vulnerability= 21.
Blurred Frenzy 1_2: Might= 3, Vulnerability= 21.
Blurred Frenzy 3_4: Might= 6, Vulnerability= 21.
Blurred Frenzy 5_6: Might= 6, Vulnerability= 21.
2nd Power Spike: Might= 6, Vulnerability= 21.

i see your point, but lets think about this, you gain 13% more crit damage with 6 in dueling. this means you’re getting less than 13% overall damage boost to all skills. what you’re giving up is 7% from 18 vuln instead of 25 (since izerker, shatter and mirror blade all hit at 18 vuln), 1 hit of mirror blade, and 1 extra shatter.

it doesn’t seem worth it to me.

RNG doesn’t count, so all hits crit. That means is a flat 13% boost damage. Also, you need to count mantras have an extra stack, so it would be another 4% more damage from power lock.

So, I lose 100 power from shatter might, 7% of damage for half of hits, 4% of damage for the other half, 1 mirror blade and 1 shatter (which means MW hits 25% less). And I gain 17% boost damage and 3/4 of BF.

In terms of coefficients, I gain 1,8 with BF and lose 1,74 with Mind Wrack, Mirror Blade and Cry of frustration.

that’s not how empowered mantras work. you get the 4% damage for each type of mantra you have charged. having 3 charges vs 2 vs 1 charge all give you 4% boost.

I know how it works. With the other build, I used all 2 stacks of Power Lock, so I was losing 4%. With an extra stack, I win it.

Also it’s a 4% more damage than your build, since you have 3 mantras and I have 4.

why would you not just use mirror images to get 25 vuln, thats 7% more damage.

This requires time for all 3 phantasms to be summoned and they’ll be attacking, but is the rule that 0 damage can be dealt ahead of time? If not…

Having 3 iZerkers out, their summons timed so that they all attack at the same time. Target in a corner so they spin on top of him. Once they’re out:

Prestige, Mirror Blade, Power Spike, 3x iZerker attack at once, F1, Power Spike, Prestige

Timing is everything

It’s not a lost of 7%, just 3% from 1st Mirror Blade to Mind Wrack.

But yes, better change Mantra of Concentration to Mirror Images and do:

Time Warp, Power Lock, Dodge, Mirror Images, Diversion, The Prestige, Power Lock, iZerker, Mirror Blade (Start doing damage, counting Mirror Blade, iZerker, Power Spike), Power Spike, Blurred Frenzy, Mind Wrack, Power Spike.

Build would be http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhQQNAsfRl0npGtdqxENUrNiqxgquI9BBERp7Y7BA-T1RBABXt/o8DP9BLcEAy7UAAwDAgS1fMTJYAAEAn38m38m38czbezbezbWKgHGWB-w

And all attacks are done with 25 stacks of vulnerability.

guys , highest dmg possible in 1 sec :

eotm map, someones gonna use skill 5 of weap skills, u moa him, he uses moa 5 down the cliff

all ur arguments r invalid

Wyrden.4713:

guys , highest dmg possible in 1 sec :

eotm map, someones gonna use skill 5 of weap skills, u moa him, he uses moa 5 down the cliff

all ur arguments r invalid

You know you do 0 damage with that way? Falling damage doesn’t count as yours…

Apart from being the only invalid argument, yours is also stupid.

meh u should have tagged him w some sustained dmg before, therefor u do get loot and deal an infinite amount of dmg:0

Wyrden.4713:

meh u should have tagged him w some sustained dmg before, therefor u do get loot and deal an infinite amount of dmg:0

But if you tag them before they start falling, it’ll take more than a second for them to actually die. I’m afraid this is not the burst we are looking for

he asked highest burst, burst is when do an insane amount of dmg in a short time:0

dmging bit before shouldnt be a problem for his question:p

Ansau.7326:

It’s not a lost of 7%, just 3% from 1st Mirror Blade to Mind Wrack.

But yes, better change Mantra of Concentration to Mirror Images and do:

Time Warp, Power Lock, Dodge, Mirror Images, Diversion, The Prestige, Power Lock, iZerker, Mirror Blade (Start doing damage, counting Mirror Blade, iZerker, Power Spike), Power Spike, Blurred Frenzy, Mind Wrack, Power Spike.

Build would be http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhQQNAsfRl0npGtdqxENUrNiqxgquI9BBERp7Y7BA-T1RBABXt/o8DP9BLcEAy7UAAwDAgS1fMTJYAAEAn38m38m38czbezbezbWKgHGWB-w

And all attacks are done with 25 stacks of vulnerability.

i still dont know if giving up extra bounce and MW damage is worth the extra crit damage. we’d have to ask yski to actually do the math on it. and to confirm whether or not all the skills can be performed in under 1 second

Wyrden.4713:

he asked highest burst, burst is when do an insane amount of dmg in a short time:0

dmging bit before shouldnt be a problem for his question:p

Then I stand by my 3x iZerker + shatter combo:

Prestige, Mirror Blade, Power Spike, 3x iZerker attack at once, F1, Power Spike, Prestige

highest damage is

pick up fiery greatsword

4

collect loot

maha.7902:

highest damage is

pick up fiery greatsword

4

collect loot

You know, I’m not sure you’re right. The fgs trail pulses over the course of several seconds, and this burst is limited to just 1 second past the first hit of damage. Would be interesting to look into though.

conjures dont scale well as mesmer as far as i know

Wyrden.4713:

dmging bit before shouldnt be a problem for his question:p

..Except one of the rules was that you have one second to finish the burst after the first tick of damage.

I think we’ve reached the point where it’s time to do the math and see what comes out. I’ll use Ansau’s rotation, and I’ll test both 6/2/0/0/6 and 6/6/0/0/2. May the best burst win

The guy asks which is the highest possible mesmer burst with hope to get a suitable build to deal the highest possible damage, gets 412312 different builds. Gets even more confused, depressed, deletes gw2.

Suuns.9203:

The guy asks which is the highest possible mesmer burst with hope to get a suitable build to deal the highest possible damage, gets 412312 different builds. Gets even more confused, depressed, deletes gw2.

I take it you’ve never had to deal with elementalist burst rotations..?