Guild Wars 2

Many people have personally told me that the mesmer is a bad vlass for soloing. There have been numerous comments on how bad a mesmer is. There are people that have absolutley NOTHING great to say about the mesmer. But are they right?

When people start a new character for the first time, alot of them do not do their research beforehand. Therefor, when the class/proffession they choose does not turn out what they expect it to be, they complain. That’s what people do, theres no denying it. The mesmer has, by no stretch of the imagination, the best DPS in the game. It DOES, however, have some of the best party utility skills. There have been numerous occasions where, at the time before someone had come up with a better method, thing seemed almost IMPOSSIBLE to do without a mesmer in the party. I remember, when my guild and I where running CM on Explorer the first time, we reached a room where there was an insane amont of silver mobs. seeming to die on every attempt to kill them, i ended up bypassing the whole area via use of the mesmer’s many invisibility skills, and portals. This has worked amazingly well in numerous occasions, yet it is not the only thing mesmers are good for. Null field is GREAT when running dungeons suc as CoF, where almost EVERYTHING applies burns, Time Warp is arguably the best elite skill when it comes to group utility, and Winds of Chaos, coupled with the charr’s roar racial (3 stacks might, fury), and chaos storm planted at your feet, you can use your signet to apply all your boons to nearby allies… pretty great, no? And, if you bother speccing into it (i know that not many people do), you get your feedback bubble on yourself when reviving a team-mate… This skill has actually helped me ALOT in both pvp and pve. A bunch of ranged devourers all hitting you? go up to an ally and press “F”. wait 10 seconds, press “F” again, and just watch those devourer’s health drop.

Many people ask, "As a mesmer, to maximize my DPS should I stack Power, Precision, and Crit? Or should I stack Power, Precision, and Condition damage? The answer-> Totally depends on how you play. If you are sticking with your staff most of the time, the extra condition damage can be a great help. This can also work if you take the trait that makes your greatsword apply bleeds. However, sacrificing the +Condition damage for +crit damage isn’t a bad idea either, If you want to see huge numbers rolling off your enemies, especially if using a shatter build.

Another question about the mesmer is, “What weapons should I use?” Once again: Totally up to your playstyle. Want to be in the thick of things? There aren’t as many choices for a melee mesmer, sadly, but learn too make the most of it. Going double sword provides you with a REALLY handy block, but using a pistol off-hand gives you a bouncing projectile, a stun, and a really efficient ranged phantasm. Want to play ranged? Staff can bring out great tanking potential, conditions all over the place, and a decent aoe (albet with a longer cooldown). Greatsword brings out those big numbers that people always get excited about, and has a nice melee-aoe phantasm (the pushback is useless when playing with a party, as most people will yell at you for knocking mobs out of their aoe’s). The scepter allows for fast clone generation, which is pretty useful when using a shatter build, and the focus gives a nice swiftness generator, a semi-decent aoe damae phantasm and, if traite properly, 2 more ways to reflect projectiles back to their source.

So, In short, If you really want to measure a class’ potential, you really have to play that class properly, and leave lots of room for experimentation. If you have any questions for me about my playstyle (I have tried them all), my trait build (Remember to experiment with it yourself from time to time), or any general questions about playing as a mesmer, feel free to ask.

Problem with the mesmer atm is it’s a sustained ramp profession that lacks some of the up front spike other classes can bring. A thief can burst a mob down in 2/3 seconds while that same 2/3 seconds we just preping the fight. Also we lack decent consistent aoe atm.

EDIT:

for soloing

People complain about mesmer being weak for solo PvE. OP then creates a massive pointless wall of text over the mesmer in group PvE. Unless I’ve missed something nobody said anything about our group PvE viability.

EDIT2: Wait, you seem to be ranting about random odd stuff while making no real argument. At best I can tell your post is this.

0) Inflammatory title.
1) People say mesmer Solo PvE is bad.
2) They shouldn’t because mesmer Group PvE is good.
3) Random advice over what stats a mesmer can use for DPS. (pretty obv advice some actually slightly erroneous)
4) Obvious set of statements over the basics of the various weapons with no in-depth.
5) Random statement advertising self and suggesting people try different stuff.

I don’t have any problems.

But then again I’m not the type that thinks spawning 3 duelist phantasms to solo stuff is the best playstyle either.

It’s a great profession played poorly by the wrong people

Maybe it’s just me but the title and OP seem kinda random…

Malakree summed it up quite nicely, Mesmer is lacking consistent AoE and upfront dmg.
I doub we’ll ever see any of it added to the skillset, but it is the reason y Mesmer is rather hard to solo compared to the other classes.

How can it lack “upfront damage”? Mirror Images > Mindwrack > Blurred Frenzy > Illusionary Duellist/Swordsman. No mobs can survive that.

Mesmer in solo pve is fine. In fact, it’s more than fine, it’s awesome. We can get either the burst or the dps, though the other is a tradeoff in respective build – but that is to be expected from balancing perspective, you can’t have everything. We can even get decent AoE, but it does require some specialization (staff’s bouncy attacks improved, shatter-condition spec; melee double sword shatter build works too, but it’s a lot more risky to pull off and a lot less useful in WvW).

All in all, while the OP is making some stretches in his comment, he is right – we’re fine.

For me it’s actually a great profession for solo PVE. Ratio dps surviving utility is just amazaing. Just need to be carefull to avoid pulling too many mobs at a time.

How can it lack “upfront damage”? Mirror Images > Mindwrack > Blurred Frenzy > Illusionary Duellist/Swordsman. No mobs can survive that.

This damage is actually pretty poor compared to the upfront damage most of the other professions has access to. Plus it’s entirely cooldown based (mirror images is a 40second cd?).

Malakree.5912:

This damage is actually pretty poor compared to the upfront damage most of the other professions has access to. Plus it’s entirely cooldown based (mirror images is a 40second cd?).

All damage which is not based on #1 is CD-based. :P

All damage which is not based on #1 is CD-based. :P

Thief, engineer has it’s burst on about an 8 second cd. There’s a difference between short cooldowns and 40second cooldowns. If your going to argue that you might as well say "we have timewarp so we have tons of upfront burst.

I don’t have any issues with soloing as a Mesmer. It’s a great mix of damage, utility, and survivability.

Someone mentioned the bouncy staff #1 attack. I think that’s actually an interesting case. Once you hit 40 you can put 20 points into illusion and get an extra bounce out of it. This effectively doubles the damage output of that attack. But you have to level 40 and you have to realize this. So this is not an early bloomer and many of these things aren’t immediately obvious either.

Someone else mentioned Mirror Images for bursting and then someone said it’s a 40s cooldown. It’s 45s, but you can trait it down to 36s. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s burst, of course it has a long cooldown. Staff #2 plus Mirror Images lets me start a fight with three clones running to my target to explode there. I can do that every 36 seconds with Mirror Images, but of course I can do it more often if I use my other clones or my phantasms.

Lewis Burnell.2493:

It’s a great profession played poorly by the wrong people

’nuff said.

Move along now, nothing to see here.

Malakree.5912:

Thief, engineer has it’s burst on about an 8 second cd.

Properly specced and equipped, our burst is compareable to that of an engineer, with similar cooldown durations. Just don’t expect to do that burst with condition-based gear and staff :p

Thief on the other hand uses an initiative system. This means they can frontload a lot of damage and when they don’t need to worry about other things can spend all their points on damage skills. However, once they’re out of initiative, they have a problem, as they need to wait for the pool to regenerate. In a way, you could say that all their skills have a shared cooldown of sorts.

Yup, usually played poorly by bad players, those players should just stick to warrior or thief.

Malakree.5912:

This damage is actually pretty poor compared to the upfront damage most of the other professions has access to. Plus it’s entirely cooldown based (mirror images is a 40second cd?).

As if that’s the only way to create clones/illusions, half the attacks creates one so why rely on mirror images solely? When properly setup with traits and gear, mind wrack hits hard but you need 3 clones/illusions out to be effective.

I have no trouble in solo pve, find the rotation you think is effective and stick to it, mobs don’t live for long, even +2 levels above me.

I am not as advanced as you guys, I just hit level 40 last night. However, I’ll play along and say that my mesmer does just fine. I really love the profession. Sure, it may not be as beefy as others, but you get your thrills from mischief and mind tricks.

I mostly use sword/pistol and staff. While this works very well, my only concern is that, in dense areas, mobs may respawn on me while I’m still cleaning up, and then things get heated pretty quickly!

I fail to see how iwardens 8k aoe dmg is semi decent and how the upfront dmg of blurred frenzy/mind wrack is lacking.

This damage is actually pretty poor compared to the upfront damage most of the other professions has access to. Plus it’s entirely cooldown based (mirror images is a 40second cd?).

It’s less but I wouldn’t call it poor. I can burst about 11k damage in 5 seconds using <14s cooldowns. Warrs and Thieves can do that in about 3 seconds, but they burn a 45s+ cooldown for it.

If a profession has the be played perfectly by a great player just to be as effective as a bad warrior or guardian there is a very serious problem with the class.

The Mesmer is an excellent class, albeit a complex one, that is played by average players.

There are a few Mesmer playstyles that are accessible for the masses, most notably the common Phantasm army style. However, these are like GS HB gimmick Warriors that Bull Rush Frenzy into every fight*.

• Although the Mesmer build in question is stronger, huehuehue.

I just think it’s more misunderstood than anything. A lot of people from what I can see don’t use it to the full potential. It’s an easy to play hard to master kind of thing in my opinion and finding the right build for personal preference is another thing entirely.

For example as much as I loved the greatsword I couldn’t find a decent enough build for me but now having switched to scepter / focus focusing on bleeds/ confusion / reflections, it’s opened up the profession a lot more for me.

I found that I had a lot of difficulty with mesmer during the beta. It really is about understanding the profession, and also trying all the weapons and skills and understand how they work.

After trying all the weapon combinations, even now I find places where I can improve and make my gaming experience better. In pve I think I’ve found out what really works for me, and I can handle packs of monsters or bronze elites with little issues.

Malakree.5912:

Problem with the mesmer atm is it’s a sustained ramp profession that lacks some of the up front spike other classes can bring. A thief can burst a mob down in 2/3 seconds while that same 2/3 seconds we just preping the fight. Also we lack decent consistent aoe atm.

What drugs are you on? It takes me three seconds max to destroy a mob with no preparation. Throw greatsword while close so it bounces and gives me six stacks of might, watch clone get summoned and finally mind wrack for deathblow. If thats not enough, I just shove an ether blade up hiskitten People are making mesmer way too complex than it actually is.

Granted I’m only level 13 on my Mesmer so there’s a lot of time left for it to start getting tougher/bad/whatever I suppose, but so far I’m loving it. The class mechanics and the general idea of this class just make it fun, though so I think it if does get harder down the road, I’m more than willing to learn how to play it correctly.

Right now at my low level there’s so much I can do already and the mini army I can summon is awesome. I’m currently using a Sword/Pistol and Staff combo for a mix of melee/ranged and single target/AoE and it’s working well. I did like the Scepter but the lower dps and slower start up made me switch. But I can use Mirror Images and Phase Retreat (after throwing down a Chaos Storm first) as I start, let them get a few hits in and then Cry of Frustration to get a few stacks of Confusion on the target, then Phantasmal Warlock, Decoy, Phantasmal Duelist and start hitting them with my Sword and the second half of my army. Will usually pull out Illusionary Leap as well for just one more guy hitting my target(s) with me. When the mob gets low I’ll do a Mind Wrack for a little burst to finish him off. A lot of mobs don’t even live that long (all of that only takes a few seconds), but if I can do that much I will, or I’ll just take two mobs.

I can take on several targets at once with ease and often don’t get hit at all with all the skills available (clones, illusions, Decoy I love, Magic Bullet, Diversion and Distortion I’ve only had to use once, then I also have Blurred Frenzy and I can always switch to Staff and kite while I wait for CDs or for the mob to die from my ranged attacks and illusions). I feel like I take down mobs fairly quickly and efficiently to be honest. At this level I don’t know what kind of build or playstyle I’m going for since I’m still trying it all out but I enjoy it so far. Then again, I have a 52 Elementalist so Mesmer doesn’t seem all that complicated in comparison. I suppose if I had started with a Ranger or something I might feel different.

Amiron.1067:

Malakree.5912:

Problem with the mesmer atm is it’s a sustained ramp profession that lacks some of the up front spike other classes can bring. A thief can burst a mob down in 2/3 seconds while that same 2/3 seconds we just preping the fight. Also we lack decent consistent aoe atm.

What drugs are you on? It takes me three seconds max to destroy a mob with no preparation. Throw greatsword while close so it bounces and gives me six stacks of might, watch clone get summoned and finally mind wrack for deathblow. If thats not enough, I just shove an ether blade up hiskitten People are making mesmer way too complex than it actually is.

He’s trying to summon 3 Phantasms.

Then again, I have a 52 Elementalist so Mesmer doesn’t seem all that complicated in comparison. I suppose if I had started with a Ranger or something I might feel different.

Rangers are pretty hard to play if you maximize your weapon swaps, pet swaps, and pet attacks for buffs.

All my classes are low level (mesmer is 24), I’ve read (and experienced from a bit of sPvP) that the mesmer is a late bloomer, because it is very reliant on traits, fine I get this, I’ve seen it in other games simplistic DPS classes always start quick, mor ecomplex classes take time to get going.

However I’ve also read that even at 80 mesmer still has some of the issues I see at low level. For example DE and tagging mobs, if I try and mind wrack, often by the time three illusions are up, the mob (in fact a good deal of them) are dead due to warriors zooming in & 100b, theives using shortbow 2 & 4, Eles just AOEing everything etc, from what I’ve read this is still an issue at 80.

And no chaos storm on a 30 second cooldown and the bouncing 1 skill on staff doesn’t solve it, neither does the realatively crappy AOE on GS (really play a warrior, guard, Ele, even thief with a shortbow and I get at least twice as many drops form mobs)

Granted my Mesmer seems to be great at veterans/champions, but the idiotic way DE rewards it seem AOEing teh weak adds is simply worth far more.

In regard to the OP’s ratehr confused post, I enjoy soling on my mesmer, but there are many times whilst doing that, that I think to myself these 3 or 4 mobs would of been dead sometimie ago on warrior, guard, thief, ele, even necro (who solo seem quicler, but seem to suffer the same issue in DE dots+marks+epidemic is useless if everythgin is dead before even gettting to epidemic).

Personally I can put up with the relatively slow solo aspect, what I think may simply put me off Mesmer in the end is how relatively unrewarded you are in DE, I don’t know which genius came up with how DE works out tagging, but that the fact it bascially favours burst AOE over everythign else (is support even considered?) is just moronic.

edit : To clarify when I say ‘reward’ I’m still talking about the loot for mobs, not chests or what coloured medal you get from the event.

Before people get confused, you may want to clarify that your problem is with tagging mobs for loot, not DE rewards for DEs.

Sidenote: The only classes that are really good for DEs are engineers, since their turrets seem to autotarget and attack mobs that are not drawn on your screen.

I haven’t had any significant issues tagging mobs as long as I can see most of them, which tends to be the problem with people farming DEs. Eles seem to do well due to the persistence of their AOEs that also do not require visible targets.

Just to state my thoughts on the subject of DE’s and various PvE issues… unless we are actually useless in it (we aren’t, we are tougher-mob killers, supporters with our utility skills and AoE effects, boss-killers etc.) or are unable to handle mobs of appropriate levels solo (we are more than capable in this regard) do not expect to see much in terms of PvE balancing unless there is a gratuitous gap in our skill set and capabilities somewhere (there isn’t). There will always be PvE imbalances because some capabilities (AoE specifically) are considered more valuable than others (protracted battles vs. a single target) and some are going to specialize in 1 and not the other.

We aren’t the most AoE efficient killers, because that is not our specialty. We are single-target and small-skirmish experts. Duelists. We have a trait line called “Dueling,” remember, which should tell you somewhat how ANet looks at the profession.

I’ve never really had much of a problem with farming and trash-mob removal, though it certainly isn’t our strong suit. Greatsword, Focus, Staff are our AoE-specific weapons and they do an adequate job. Not amazing, but adequate. This is the trade-off we have for being ridiculously survivable (especially in PvE where we just Decoy and leave, Blink and leave, Diversion and leave, Veil and leave, Mass Invisibility and leave, Into the Void and leave….), excellent at kiting (target the clones, foolish monster!) and amazing for protracted battles (repeatedly summoning multiple mobs that enemies end up killing 1 at a time while you keep resummoning them, all while doing your own thing? Yes please.)

TL;DR: We have pros and cons. One of our cons is being less AoE focused. It is more than balanced by our pros.

Using the staff I can solo most things with ease, and can solo even better than my Ranger when it comes to groups of melee mobs. Chaos Storm is incredible, especially when you combine it with other skills and Winds of Change, although slow upfront with its damage, builds up its conditions really quickly (especially if you have the trait that adds an extra bounce) and works AoE too.

If you’re looking for upfront damage, you should go 1h sword/pistol; dropping a pistol duellist, using the 3 and 2 skill will build up a nice bit of burst. I find the greatsword quite powerful for ‘dps’ in dungeons or dynamic events too, the 1 skill works like a longbow and can build up heavy damage if you’re far back, as well as the whirling swordsman and 3 skill building up a fair bit of quick burst damage.

End of the day, Mesmer is primarily a control class that’s power and usefulness increases exponentially with the player’s skill, imo.

And also, I 100% agree with True Seeker above, if we were strong in AoE I imagine everyone would whine about how OP we were.

Mesmer’s are a unique and challenging class, probably the most challenging in the game. But also really rewarding when you play them right. So yes, most the time it’s just bad players playing them. But there are some kinks and bugs that need improvement, but otherwise they’re totally playable and very fun as well. Take the time to learn the profession and you’ll have some really, really fun times.

Well, at level 30-38, depending on my level of concentration and focus, I’ve been increasingly able to handle +2, +3 and even +4 mobs. (Yesterday at lvl 38 was battling against lvl 42 Centaurs, groups of 2, 3, even 4, even with vets sometimes, though that’s awfully risky).

That’s about right for mid-level in MMOs for me, so I’m very satisfied.

At first, I thought the mesmer was indeed a bad profession.
I was not able to survive, and don’t even ask about dealing damage !

But instead of giving the profession up, I decided to keep on playing it -just because there was a cr*pload of fun concepts, and it matched one of my toon background.
Things changed when I had the opportunity to take a look at some tutorial made by a guy name Prometheus (or something like that).

And now, playing a mesmer is just a pleasure. Nothing is a breeze, but if you manage your powers you’re suddenly good enough to deal decent damage AND survive.

Plus, you’re classy.

I think the point is that no one is saying Mesmers can’t solo, it’s just that pretty much every other class can do it faster, easier, and are just as tough. And also can go do it again 3 seconds later because they didn’t have to use any 30-second cooldown skills. And also can easily participate in DEs and get lots of xp and loot.

People keep saying there’s a balance where if you do lots of AOE you shouldn’t do lots of single target, etc, etc, but you know, that’s not true for any other class. My engineer, my guardian, my thief, all have easy, quick aoe options and also can burn down one target fast. So why is Mesmer meticulously balanced where every other class is overpowered?

I could, while leveling, solo 4 level+7 mobs simultaneously.

I could kill an even level mob in 5 seconds.

Mesmers are insanely survivable while maintaining a DPS or even glass cannon stat spread or build.

Don’t know what else you can expect for PvE. An “IWIN” or “NUKE-ALL EMAIN” button?

I’m leveling, so can’t address end game content.

At early and mid level, Mesmer is incredibly good for pve content. I would not say incredibly easy, which some other professions are. For my two cents, I focus on my mesmer because it is not easy mode, rather it’s fun mode.

To be completely honest…it’s neither. Mesmer is just a new profession with certain dynamics that must be learned a bit more than others. It’s essentially completely new. Managing “pets” that aren’t quite pets & such is a little weird to say the least.

Some people aren’t necessarily bad, but they’re approaching mesmer as if they should just get it off the first couple levels. No. Things don’t work that way.

Mystic Demonio.9123:

Lewis Burnell.2493:

It’s a great profession played poorly by the wrong people

’nuff said.

Move along now, nothing to see here.

Since it’s a fairly new profession/class to play (even so, different from original GW mesmer), I’d say people are still learning about it. Don’t see how there can be any “bads” with the game not even being out for a whole month.