Guild Wars 2

colesy.8490:

We now take ret on blurred frenzy, plus it has a longer cooldown. IC moved to grandmaster so all illusion-summoning skills have 4 seconds longer on cooldown (or 8 in the case of decoy) unless we stick 25 in illusions, blinds/invulns cancel phantasm summons, iLeap still hasn’t been fixed and there’s rumours of phantasms having a -20% damage nerf.

Sure, mesmers are totally FINE.

I rarely ever get annoyed on this forum, but even thinking about the constant mesmer nerfing just infuriates me.

Adding in: Confusion being halved in spvp (fine) and WvW (not fine at all). Confusion+Glamour builds destroyed with Blinding Defubblement nerf on top of that. Chaos Armor is now a joke. iZerker didn’t work for like 8 months. Phant CD’s have been increased at least 2 times before the IC nerf. Some traits like Phantasmal Haste simply do not work. Portal has been nerfed like 5 times (even though uses cap was warranted, CD is not). Time Warp got hit by 50% reduction of Quickness power (like frenzy haste etc) but, unlike those other skills, got no compensative buffs – while still sitting on a 210 sec CD. Scepter still doesn’t have a proper identity since they took away confusion from auto, back in BWEs. Torch phantasm is still a joke..

AndrewSX.3794:

Adding in: Confusion being halved in spvp (fine) and WvW (not fine at all). Confusion+Glamour builds destroyed with Blinding Defubblement nerf on top of that. Chaos Armor is now a joke. iZerker didn’t work for like 8 months. Phant CD’s have been increased at least 2 times before the IC nerf. Some traits like Phantasmal Haste simply do not work. Portal has been nerfed like 5 times (even though uses cap was warranted, CD is not). Time Warp got hit by 50% reduction of Quickness power (like frenzy haste etc) but, unlike those other skills, got no compensative buffs – while still sitting on a 210 sec CD. Scepter still doesn’t have a proper identity since they took away confusion from auto, back in BWEs. Torch phantasm is still a joke..

Next will be longer cool down on Phantasms, 20% damage reduction on Phantasms, 50% less health on phantasms, Shaper Images reduced to 1% chance and then they will start on Shatter builds…

Uuummmm… okay that’s really funny. You guys are right about them moving in an interrupt-heavy direction, and here’s why that’s funny:
In Guild Wars 1, Mesmer started out as an interrupt, or a punish-if-you-do-this (the current equivalent is confusion), profession. The reason Mesmer got completely reworked in Guild Wars 1 was because not many played Mesmer outside of PvP. Anet decided to go a completely different direction and turned them into signet-users and nukers+debuff/support.
How hilariously ironic that in Guild Wars 2 they started with a different kind of (non-interrupting) Mesmer and then began moving them toward a gameplay style (interrupts) they ultimately admitted was not fun or desirable in their first game.

Ramiah.5648:

Uuummmm… okay that’s really funny. You guys are right about them moving in an interrupt-heavy direction, and here’s why that’s funny:
In Guild Wars 1, Mesmer started out as an interrupt, or a punish-if-you-do-this (the current equivalent is confusion), profession. The reason Mesmer got completely reworked was because NO ONE LIKED PLAYING THIS. Mesmers were sometimes found in PvP, but not very often, and almost never played in PvE. Anet decided to go a completely different direction and turned them into signet-users and nukers+debuff/support.
How hilariously ironic that in Guild Wars 2 they started with a different kind of Mesmer and then began moving them toward a gameplay style they ultimately admitted was not fun or desirable in their first game.

You haven’t played gw1 and that shows lmao. Everyone who’ve played mesmer in gw1 didn’t just liked the class but for the most it was their fav or in the top 3… Have you heard of CoP way in pve? Yeah, that’s right, you haven’t cuz you probably did not play gw1 at all or played it when gw2 came out and gw1 was dead already. Cry way was the fastest mob killer build of any aoe builds (including nukers) and that was done with mesmers. All the record times in almost every single elite zone was done with guess wut? mesmers… Mesmers were amazing for pvp for obvious reasons and awesome for pve because of aoe armor ignoring damage. The reason why they’ve changed mesmers COMPLETELY for gw2 has nothing to do with people not liking mesmers in gw1 rofl. The reason why they changed them is the fact that gw2 is aimed at casuals and casuals can’t handle a shutdown class. They would do nothing else but cry on this same forum if mesmers stayed the same… People not liking mesmers in gw1 haha that’s a good one lol

I almost never saw a Mesmer outside of PvP… EVER until they reworked them. I was actually really angry when they did cause I used the Mesmer Fast Cast to play fun builds with elementalist or sometimes even Necromancer secondary (not optimal but they were fun for me), and they made it not work for most spells.
I actually switched to using Cry of Pain when the update hit. Still, I almost never saw a Mesmer in most teams I joined before the changes.
I am not talking about Mesmers in Guild Wars 1 vs GW2. I am talking about Mesmer Pre-patch GW1, and after-patch GW1. Your comments make me think you never played Mesmer before the patch hit and probably joined the game after it had been out for many years.
In fact, PvE skills weren’t even introduced when the game launched so you couldn’t play that build. This Page is the official update where the developers say they wanted Mesmer to be usable in PvE since they didn’t “fit” there. Additionally, if you scroll down, you will see that even interrupts were changed to do something extra instead of just interrupting-normally damage or a CC. The fact that they are now trying to turn us into an interrupt class, when they clearly felt that was not very good in GW1, is quite amusing.
It’s interesting you tried to troll me when you didn’t understand what I was actually saying.

They were already good way before 2010… I think its that year that they actually downed their effectiveness in pve by increasing CoP cd and changing Vision of Regret. When you say “no one liked mesmers in gw1” are you talking about 05-06 or something? I joined in Spring 07 and they weren’t very hot because CoP wasn’t in the game yet but they were far from bad. Unpopular before 08, yes. Bad? Far from it.

Well, I didn’t actually say they were bad, just that no one played them.
What gives me hope about seeing what Anet has done in GW1 is that I know they can make an amazing game. When I finally embraced the Mesmer overhaul of GW1, I really enjoyed the profession more than ever before- but that took 5 years for them to get around to. As I said, I am fascinated to see what they will do to this profession, and am very excited about it. It’s a shame I will be playing another profession (or another game) waiting for them to move on this. But when the major patch hits, I’ll be wondrous.

Mesmer before the huge rework: manly a PvP class based on countering the opponent.

Mesmer after: best nuker for PvE content.

What did they do? Simply, most Mesmer’s skills were single target. In PvP that was ok, cause locking down more than 1 opponent wasn’t balanced, but for PvE AoE>Single target. Thus, in the update a LOT of skills just became form single target AoE. Plus some new mechanics added or reworked.
They did a very good job on it. In PvP Mesmer retained and even improved their strenghts (lockdown and CC) but didn’t became too powerful – also thanks to oculaded splits like Feverd Dream losing the Daze in pvp – while becoming instead a top tier PvE class thanks to now AoE armor ignoring frontloaded dmg (Esurge, CoP, CoF, Mistrust) being added on top of god tier aoe mass CC (Panic, Fevered Dream, KS).

But the main difference with Gw2 is that mobs used same skills/attack of players in same way and with same mechanics. And there wasn’t any defiant crap. Thus interruptions in PvE weren’t only possible, they were awesome and required to lock down mobs to AoE down.
Especially in high end pve, where your 8 lvl 20 man team must wipe off 15 lvl 32 mob, making them almost unable to use skills (Panic, VoR, Mistrust or FD) while you burst them down was nearly required to make the pressure manageable by your backline.

Here, try using confusion on a player and on a mob. Plus defiant. Plus a craploand of istant cast stuff.
That’s a core issue in giving mesmer that direction.

I’m fine with trading off some dmg to superior CC and shutdown: but as long as the game system is not suited to it, that’s just making of mesmer a mess.

I sort-of agree that Phantasms are inherently a problem. They take up slots which would otherweise be centred on the see-saw mechanic of Clone-Defence via obfuscation vs Clone-Offence via shattering.

I guess if I were given free reign, I’d try a version or two where Phantasms have been removed entirely. The abilities would stay, but become short-term effects focused on momentary confusing attacks. Example:

Phantasmal Berserker
4 copies of the Mesmer wielding Greatswords are summoned in a circle around the target. After 1,5 seconds, one will activate and whirl through the enemy and surrounding targets, causing damage and crippling enemies hit. Afterwards, all four illusions dissipate harmlessly.
Circle should be wide enough so that most AEs cannot cover all four, but individual illusions should be weak. Think Forest Temple Boss in Ocarina of Time.

And I’d create each of them that way. Each skill spawns a number of clones (cannot be used for normal clone business). After X time, one or multiple will create some attack-effect, then all illusions spawned as a result of the skill are dissolved.
Basically, an indirect instant attack with a delay, in turn it’s difficult to defend against.

Carighan.6758:

I sort-of agree that Phantasms are inherently a problem. They take up slots which would otherweise be centred on the see-saw mechanic of Clone-Defence via obfuscation vs Clone-Offence via shattering.

I guess if I were given free reign, I’d try a version or two where Phantasms have been removed entirely. The abilities would stay, but become short-term effects focused on momentary confusing attacks. Example:

Phantasmal Berserker
4 copies of the Mesmer wielding Greatswords are summoned in a circle around the target. After 1,5 seconds, one will activate and whirl through the enemy and surrounding targets, causing damage and crippling enemies hit. Afterwards, all four illusions dissipate harmlessly.
Circle should be wide enough so that most AEs cannot cover all four, but individual illusions should be weak. Think Forest Temple Boss in Ocarina of Time.

And I’d create each of them that way. Each skill spawns a number of clones (cannot be used for normal clone business). After X time, one or multiple will create some attack-effect, then all illusions spawned as a result of the skill are dissolved.
Basically, an indirect instant attack with a delay, in turn it’s difficult to defend against.

I feel the same way. The way I see it now, mesmer is too divided by shatter mesmers (who use the class skills f1-F4) and phantasm mesmers who actually prefer not to use them as they need to keep their phantasms alive as long as possible. Phantasm builds thus have no reason to spec into a lot of the shatter traits, and they also have less need for normal clone regeneration after their phantasms are up. I too think it would be best for the mesmer class that the phantasms either disappear or are handled seperately(maybe just doing one attack and then disappearing). That way, every mesmer would have a reason to start using their F1-F4 and have an interest into speccing for shatter traits, as there is nothing holding you back from shattering at the right moments.

Carighan.6758:

I sort-of agree that Phantasms are inherently a problem. They take up slots which would otherweise be centred on the see-saw mechanic of Clone-Defence via obfuscation vs Clone-Offence via shattering.

I guess if I were given free reign, I’d try a version or two where Phantasms have been removed entirely. The abilities would stay, but become short-term effects focused on momentary confusing attacks. Example:

Phantasmal Berserker
4 copies of the Mesmer wielding Greatswords are summoned in a circle around the target. After 1,5 seconds, one will activate and whirl through the enemy and surrounding targets, causing damage and crippling enemies hit. Afterwards, all four illusions dissipate harmlessly.
Circle should be wide enough so that most AEs cannot cover all four, but individual illusions should be weak. Think Forest Temple Boss in Ocarina of Time.

And I’d create each of them that way. Each skill spawns a number of clones (cannot be used for normal clone business). After X time, one or multiple will create some attack-effect, then all illusions spawned as a result of the skill are dissolved.
Basically, an indirect instant attack with a delay, in turn it’s difficult to defend against.

I would wait for all the Phantasm nerfs before trying to rebuild it. 20% hit to Phantasm damage is doing the rounds. Its an interesting idea, though in the end one i dont think would work. This would gutter the Phantasm builds in my opinion the damage would have to be comparable to that of the current Illusions

Even then seeing as they dissipate(trigger on death traits i hope!) after 1 attack they would already be alot weaker then current illusions that attack until they die ot the target dies of course with the cool down between attacks.

No, I’d rather they didn’t change phantasms just to suit your fancies.

colesy.8490:

No, I’d rather they didn’t change phantasms just to suit your fancies.

They WILL be changed, the constant QQ about them being to strong is likely to bring the 20% damage nerf for Phantasms. You think they will stop there? I can see more coming – Longer cooldowns, lower health, longer cool down between attacks and thats even before they ruin the traits….

Traits that do not work, btw.

-Phantasmal Haste-

colesy.8490:

No, I’d rather they didn’t change phantasms just to suit your fancies.

It’s not my fancy, I believe it will fundamentally improve the mesmer and at the same time make it easier to balance them. Right now, phantasm mesmers work too differently from shatter mesmers. Traits based around shattering will never be wanted by phantasm mesmers and vice versa, leading us to a loss of choice in spec/trait options because of it(ideally, we should have more trait options than other classes because of this divide but that’s never going to happen and we all know it). And since people can’t seem to deal with phantasms and they will probably be nerfed again and again until there is nothing left to talk about, I’d rather they just disappear all together in their current form/mechanics. I want the professions skills (F1-F4) to be important for every mesmer and right now, it’s not like that at all.

Vewen.8016:

colesy.8490:

No, I’d rather they didn’t change phantasms just to suit your fancies.

It’s not my fancy, I believe it will fundamentally improve the mesmer and at the same time make it easier to balance them. Right now, phantasm mesmers work too differently from shatter mesmers. Traits based around shattering will never be wanted by phantasm mesmers and vice versa, leading us to a loss of choice in spec/trait options because of it(ideally, we should have more trait options than other classes because of this divide but that’s never going to happen and we all know it). And since people can’t seem to deal with phantasms and they will probably be nerfed again and again until there is nothing left to talk about, I’d rather they just disappear all together in their current form/mechanics. I want the professions skills (F1-F4) to be important for every mesmer and right now, it’s not like that at all.

What i think should happen is not to remove them but to adjust them. iWarlock works great for the weapon its on. In my opinion the biggest QQ maker is the iZerker. They could replace the damage done by the Phantom with effects/boons that buff the Mesmer and clones?

Of course this would mean that the other skills on the weapon would have to be adjusted and buffed to counter the HUGE loss in damage from the Phantasms as even when you dont go Phantasm build they hit for ALOT.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

They could replace the damage done by the Phantom with effects/boons that buff the Mesmer and clones?

Of course this would mean that the other skills on the weapon would have to be adjusted and buffed to counter the HUGE loss in damage from the Phantasms as even when you dont go Phantasm build they hit for ALOT.

Well, and that’s the issue, isn’t it? No matter what happens now, any changes they make will have to be sweeping and fundamental. Any suggested changes by us or the developers really should start with: “Here is how Mesmer should function from now on…” I used to scoff at some of the things suggested on this forum because they seemed too extreme and crazy. I look back on those posts now with a feeling that those people were on to something.
Something is very, very wrong with Mesmers. It seems like no one can really figure out what it is, most of all the developers. We are starting to see that it’s probably a fundamental problem with the profession. When you build on a (really unfixable) bad foundation, you often have to destroy the house, re-pour the foundation and build it all over again. But, how do you justify doing that in a game you are already receiving money for?

The core of the problem in my opinion is that we rely on 2 things for ALOT (to much!) of our damage – they are Phantasms and Shatters. The Mesmer itself and the Clones do far to little of the damage and it annoys alot of people that they can just use 1 skill and do SO much damage.

I would happily take a change to Phantasms, remove the damage they do, make them buff US and our clones from the start and make the Phantasms when used buff us in various ways.

Example would be the iLock;

They could make it so that while its active we and the clones do 10% more damage to targets for each condition the target has. Then the core of what the iLock is all about remains but the damage is moved from them to us.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

They could make it so that while its active we and the clones do 10% more damage to targets for each condition the target has. Then the core of what the iLock is all about remains but the damage is moved from them to us.

That’s a very interesting concept, but that would probably come with a full revamp of the Phantasm system to allow them all to accommodate each other. At least, this is how I’m thinking about it.

A sort of “Legion system”, if you will, where each Phantasms provides a unique bonus to 2 out of the 3:
Phantasms
Clones
Player

Example:
iWarlock
Provides bonus damage to all Illusions based on unique conditions on the opponent.

iSwordsman
Provides evade to all Illusions while attacking.

iMage
Each successful attack by clones and the player will provide the player with a random boon. (Limit 1 boon per second per clone/player attack).

Esplen.3940:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

They could make it so that while its active we and the clones do 10% more damage to targets for each condition the target has. Then the core of what the iLock is all about remains but the damage is moved from them to us.

That’s a very interesting concept, but that would probably come with a full revamp of the Phantasm system to allow them all to accommodate each other. At least, this is how I’m thinking about it.

A sort of “Legion system”, if you will, where each Phantasms provides a unique bonus to 2 out of the 3:
Phantasms
Clones
Player

Example:
iWarlock
Provides bonus damage to all Illusions based on unique conditions on the opponent.

iSwordsman
Provides evade to all Illusions while attacking.

iMage
Each successful attack by clones and the player will provide the player with a random boon. (Limit 1 boon per second per clone/player attack).

Yeah this i think would work quite well. I would change it a bit add a 4th “clone” spot that it just for Phantasms.

This way you can have 3 Clones up at all times and 1 Phantasm – this Phantasm would not be killed via shattering and offers NO benefit to shattering, it is replaced by another Phantasm or removed when it dies.

This would mean that you would have to choose the right Phantasm for the current situation – no more spamming zerkers or Duelists.

Vewen.8016:

colesy.8490:

No, I’d rather they didn’t change phantasms just to suit your fancies.

It’s not my fancy, I believe it will fundamentally improve the mesmer and at the same time make it easier to balance them. Right now, phantasm mesmers work too differently from shatter mesmers. Traits based around shattering will never be wanted by phantasm mesmers and vice versa, leading us to a loss of choice in spec/trait options because of it(ideally, we should have more trait options than other classes because of this divide but that’s never going to happen and we all know it). And since people can’t seem to deal with phantasms and they will probably be nerfed again and again until there is nothing left to talk about, I’d rather they just disappear all together in their current form/mechanics. I want the professions skills (F1-F4) to be important for every mesmer and right now, it’s not like that at all.

I don’t see how it will improve the mesmer, there’s nothing wrong with certain builds not wanting traits suitable for other builds (e.g. bunker guards vs. DPS guards, the former will probably take AH and the latter will likely take monk’s focus).

All ANet needs to do is ignore the QQers, and actually look at the fact that there are zero mesmers at PAX as a hint that something isn’t right.

As for your last point, it’s exactly like I said – you want mesmers changed to suit your fancy. I don’t care about using my F1-4 except if an opponent is extremely low or if I’m eating burst and need distortion, whereas the shatter mesmers use theirs a lot. In both cases, we both have access to them and can use them whenever we please without even having to trait them so it’s a win/win.

colesy.8490:

All ANet needs to do is ignore the QQers, and actually look at the fact that there are zero mesmers at PAX as a hint that something isn’t right.

That means nothing, this is a casuals game, the casuals cant handle Mesmer in its current state so the class WILL continue to be nerfed. I would rather Anet try and see what they can do with the class rather then nerf us into death.

A huge part of the problem is just how much of the damage isnt dealt by us but by Phantasms and Shatters, now yeah i agree it should be the players choice, to a point (minus PvP) Mesmer is very strong.

And I would rather they didn’t cripple phantasms. One burst then shatters? What the hell kind of awful idea is that? You can dodge the burst, you can blind the mesmer, you can LoS the summon. In addition, phantasms are fragile and no longer have permanent retaliation.

Why do we deserve to have them made weaker? And secondly, why is it better for mesmers to have their phantasm mechanic gutted? I don’t want to play some borefest predictable shatter spec, I prefer playing my less-of-a-borefest-though-still-predictable phantasm spec. After the first burst they become a lot less predictable too unless you’ve looked in to recharge timers and are keeping track of them, whereas clones running at you is an obvious attempt at shattering.

They can throw as many awful BS interrupt mechanics at us as they want (and I seriously hate that they’re trying to promote such a lame mechanic in a game full of either insta-casts or PvE bosses that carry on attacking when interrupted anyway), just for all that is good and holy don’t nerf phantasms again.

I doubt any Mesmer wants that, the simple fact is it IS going to happen. The casuals control who gets nerfed and the casuals have always hated Mesmer for the simple fact it requires thinking, it requires use of dodges and defensive play the casual player (the ones that are QQing) are the ones that want to do one thing and one thing only – attack.

Sure we all know they can be dodged, they call easily be killed with a few auto attacks, you can blind them, LoS them and everything else but as stated Casuals dont like doing any of this.

How would it make Mesmers weaker? moving the damage from the Phantasm to the mesmer ISNT a nerf, its a readjustment and one that should have taken place along time ago.

In he same vein as i think Thief need to have the Stealth reduced to more of a “use at right time” sort of mechanic and buffed up elsewhere to compensate the same should happen here.

Change the way Phantasms function to actually BUFF the Mesmer and clones. This would mean increasing clone damage as well but i think it would be workable and useable. Rather then summon Phantasm, swap weapons and use another one and sit back laughing as it does all the work.

Honestly I couldn’t care any less if there were no Mesmers at Pax. Did they play PvE at Pax? WvW? Not exactly a neutral take on the state of game balance now, is it?

Mesmers are nothing more than veilbots in WvW and are only taken in dungeons due to their utility – their DPS is poor.

Mesmers are weak all across the board.

colesy.8490:

Mesmers are nothing more than veilbots in WvW and are only taken in dungeons due to their utility – their DPS is poor.

Mesmers are weak all across the board.

Lol, i totally disagree. I love my Mesmer in WvW i rarely use Veil as i spend alot of my time solo-ing camps, roaming about even when i am with a party or “zerg” i mostly stick to high confusion AoE damage and stacks as well as conditions

colesy.8490:

Vewen.8016:

colesy.8490:

No, I’d rather they didn’t change phantasms just to suit your fancies.

It’s not my fancy, I believe it will fundamentally improve the mesmer and at the same time make it easier to balance them. Right now, phantasm mesmers work too differently from shatter mesmers. Traits based around shattering will never be wanted by phantasm mesmers and vice versa, leading us to a loss of choice in spec/trait options because of it(ideally, we should have more trait options than other classes because of this divide but that’s never going to happen and we all know it). And since people can’t seem to deal with phantasms and they will probably be nerfed again and again until there is nothing left to talk about, I’d rather they just disappear all together in their current form/mechanics. I want the professions skills (F1-F4) to be important for every mesmer and right now, it’s not like that at all.

I don’t see how it will improve the mesmer, there’s nothing wrong with certain builds not wanting traits suitable for other builds (e.g. bunker guards vs. DPS guards, the former will probably take AH and the latter will likely take monk’s focus).

All ANet needs to do is ignore the QQers, and actually look at the fact that there are zero mesmers at PAX as a hint that something isn’t right.

As for your last point, it’s exactly like I said – you want mesmers changed to suit your fancy. I don’t care about using my F1-4 except if an opponent is extremely low or if I’m eating burst and need distortion, whereas the shatter mesmers use theirs a lot. In both cases, we both have access to them and can use them whenever we please without even having to trait them so it’s a win/win.

First of all, the comparison with bunker guardians quite doesn’t fly. They choose survivability traits, traits that work for every guardian that takes the right utility skills (and every can take them). The problem with the mesmer is that traits are seperated due to mechanics, because some favor keeping your phantams up like the trait that gives regeneration and others favor shattering your mesmer. There is no free choice, as a phantasm mesmer normally has 0 interest in investing into the illusions trait line. A shatter mesmer has to take quite a few less than ideal minor traits when speccing into the inspiration trait line. We have to choice for mechanics AND what role we want, whereas with other classes it’s only the latter choice.

And obviously don’t agree, but if a profession has very little interest in using their actual profession skills, something is wrong. Very wrong.

It was just my idea; if you have an idea to improve our profession skills for every mesmer, improve trait lines so they are suitable for every mesmer and balance both mesmer types for PvE and PvP, i’d love to hear it.

@AA

I was on about zerging. You drop the veil, your guys rush in, if you’re against PUGs you can put up feedback so they kill themselves, if against a guild group, feedback does nothing since they tend to use melee trains rather than projectiles. TW and null field are situational, but the problem with null field is the constant reapplication of boons and conditions and the fact that the field is small enough that the fight can easily move away from it.

On the other hand you have elementalists with a billion combo fields, warriors and guards with their blast finishers and making the bulk of the force fighting in the centre of the fight.

Roaming, well sure, mesmers and thieves are some of the sronger roaming classes especially since we can use oils and foods to make up for our shortcomings to an extent (like condi removal) but roaming barely has any effect in WvW, it’s the giant zergs capping which make the big difference.

I love using my mesmer too, but we’re quite narrow – while you always want to be stacking warriors and guards, you don’t want to be stacking mesmers.

I use Feedback ALOT, its just shocking how many people will continue attacking while in it, remember that even if someone isnt in the bubble they will still get the feedback damage if trying to shoot someone in the bubble or on other side, thats why i use it on melee, as the range normally try and burst the moment they see you.

Personally only use TW on golems trying to down gates, i use Nullfield even less, in fact i dont think i have ever used it. On my sever, i am always asked by some of the Commanders to go with them lol

Like I said, put feedback up against a PUG zerg and their scrubs will just sit there and kill themselves on it, but against a guild group, melee trains don’t care about projectile reflections since they’re whacking you with hammers, greatswords and all that. But to be honest, wall of reflection does exactly the same thing if you want reflects, and guards get to spam a ton of other boons on top of it, making them more useful.

Like I said, mesmers are narrow. They have their uses, but they’re narrow. Same applies for dungeons, and as far as I know mesmers were only taken in PvP for illusion of life and portal, which again is narrow because of the stupid long cooldowns.

Well, feedback is one of the only skills we can actually use in zerg combat ^^ Clones and Phantasms just die instantly and we don’t really got that many AoEs. Pre-patch you could still Blurred Frenzy inside the zerg but now you just die from retal.

iZerker, iWarden, Chaos Storm, all work well. I love using Chaos Storm and Feedback on iin the same area, tempted to even go and remove the +33% confusion duration and get the confusion on entering and exiting glamour(iirc) fields

Well, if you throw iZerker or iWarden in a zerg they usually don’t last that long.

Yeah but they get damage out, conditions out (Sharper Images) as well as on death traits – Cripple, Confusion and random condition every little helps

I’ll never “get” Veil I think. Yes, I know it rocks for a rushing zerg. And to “pay” for that, it has a rubbish CD, a horrible duration and isn’t half as awesome as the old video made it sound.

Yep. i simply unlocked it so i have everything unlocked. i havent used it once though.

Carighan.6758:

I’ll never “get” Veil I think. Yes, I know it rocks for a rushing zerg. And to “pay” for that, it has a rubbish CD, a horrible duration and isn’t half as awesome as the old video made it sound.

It’s very good for throwing people off balance making them drop their CC in front of you while you actually just turned left. Then while those skills are off cooldown you can bomb the enemy zerg.

hmm if they change mesmers a lot, i’d like them to be like itachi from nuns 3

:-) he is like the mesmer in naruto

Wait a minute, people don’t already expect to see nerfs in every patch? I go in with the assumption that we got nerfed into the ground, and every patch without nerfs is reason to celebrate.

Ramiel.4931:

Wait a minute, people don’t already expect to see nerfs in every patch? I go in with the assumption that we got nerfed into the ground, and every patch without nerfs is reason to celebrate.

There’s been multiple patches where we haven’t been nerfed?

Yeah but don’t disagree with the hivemind, Esplen. Not allowed!

The only reason there haven’t been nerfs (neither major fixes – aside MH Sword 1st skill, yay…) is only cause Anet said they do not want to touch balance prior their beloved PAX tournament.

Where one of the most compelling prof to play (and watch to play) won’t be due to stupid condispam brainless meta, but w/e.

Expect the patch right after it to contain all the nerfs they didn’t in this 2 months.

AndrewSX.3794:

The only reason there haven’t been nerfs (neither major fixes – aside MH Sword 1st skill, yay…) is only cause Anet said they do not want to touch balance prior their beloved PAX tournament.

Where one of the most compelling prof to play (and watch to play) won’t be due to stupid condispam brainless meta, but w/e.

Expect the patch right after it to contain all the nerfs they didn’t in this 2 months.

I’m expecting a major change right after it based partially off what happens in it. I’m quite sure they’re going to have reworks going in the pipeline right now, but there’s also going to be some tweaks based off of the results in the tournament. Oh well, that’s always the case, I just hope they don’t nerf Phase Retreat I mean, er… Mimic too hard.

I dread any change which is initiated by sPvP “balance”. Well, we’ll see how much damage this one can cause to the class, I suppose.

AndrewSX.3794:

The only reason there haven’t been nerfs (neither major fixes – aside MH Sword 1st skill, yay…) is only cause Anet said they do not want to touch balance prior their beloved PAX tournament.

Where one of the most compelling prof to play (and watch to play) won’t be due to stupid condispam brainless meta, but w/e.

Expect the patch right after it to contain all the nerfs they didn’t in this 2 months.

Yep. This is the only reason that more indepth changes have’t been made. Wait for the few updates after PAX and lets see the “changes” aka nerfs they have in store for us then.

You would think that seeing how we are hardly being used in PAX teams will surely show how poor of a condition the class is in.

So I just played about 10-ish games against a warrior in the guild I’m in and went … I think 2 wins 8 losses or maybe 3 wins … I think it was 3.

The moment a warrior chains stuns and you’re out of stunbreakers, you’re boned.

But you know what, lets nerf mesmers again because why not.

colesy.8490:

So I just played about 10-ish games against a warrior in the guild I’m in and went … I think 2 wins 8 losses or maybe 3 wins … I think it was 3.

The moment a warrior chains stuns and you’re out of stunbreakers, you’re boned.

But you know what, lets nerf mesmers again because why not.

Whats your build? weapons and utilities used?

10 matches of two specific players in a 1v1. In a MMO.

We got empirical data! Change all the things!

Sorry, couldn’t help it. Statistically speaking, the warrior might as well have lost all 10 rounds, has no real value either.

i dont care pvx wvw solo,
as a competitive team oriented vs balanced matches.. (like sandbox gvgs)
mesmers have no focus, to can be better than any of other classes..
its all cuz of game mechanic, hack&slach, randomless luck/gamble factors..
as a mesmer can u do better role than other classes?

maybe somewhere i am missing somethings.. pls let know..

maybe shatters are op rather than other focuses-as a burst in a sec best class to give highest damage..) but gambeler.. risk/avarage damage = has low effectiveness.. if u do 10 attemts to make full burst of shatter BL.. how many it can be done with full effectivenes while u getting shower.. Or in with calculation does it ll fair to take risk to do that? in blurred frenzy u get pulled with binding blade.. and die.. or 8k-14k damage from retal, chaos armors…