Guild Wars 2

So, I made a warrior QQ pretty hard in spvp (Wasn’t even my fault. She got ganked by a rogue), and she said to me that she couldn’t wait for the nerf coming our way. Please say it ain’t so! I don’t think my little butterfly soul can handle another hit.

I wouldn’t pay much credence in what another class says about who or what gets nerfed. ANet has done its fair share of nerfing to us so I’m not sure what else they could do.

Better prepare for mesmer nerfs in the next patch. It’s kind of a tradition here.

I predict for the next patch.. mesmer phantasm nerf.. thief buff.. living story trash

I get that ALOT both in SPvP and WvW, they seem to ignore that we get nerfed pretty much every 2 weeks, i think the last one where we got 2 minor buffs was the first time in ALONG time where an update didnt come out where we didnt get nerfed.

well apparently ther is this whole discussion in spvp forums going on about phantasms getting 20% dmg nerf. thats the rumor there, but i dont think anet could go through with that, unless they are planning on changing our entire class around into a different direction.

Shatter and Phantasm have been strong for a long time. There’s nothing new with people getting busted in 3 seconds and I think it’s safe to say that Anet officially regard s them as mesmer’s signatures now. If it’s to be nerfed, it’d have been done so long time ago. I am more surprised that some people are still not accustomed to it. A warrior with common sense won’t be taken down so easily even with full glass mesmer (which is much less glassy in pvp). Unless that warrior is a glass himself then we’ve got nothing to discuss.

Honestly, i don’t think they really know WHAT they want mesmers to be…

As a mesmer myself I think mesmers do need a nerf for some builds damage wise (phantasm is seriously beast atm).

Survivability though… No touching!

supertramp…just NO
phantasm is so useless in tourny and if they nerf it they will affect shatter too

shame that with the condition Meta means we are next to useless in TPvP, who really cares about SPvP? hardly see any Mesmers in there anymore anyway.

Though it being Anet and knowing how much they seem to hate us, i wouldnt be shocked if we got Shatter and Phantasm builds nerfed. If either happen they would (i hope) (but i doubt) have to buff us elsewhere.

I mean they are the most popular builds for a reason, everything else is subpar compared to them.

Supertramp.5430:

As a mesmer myself I think mesmers do need a nerf for some builds damage wise (phantasm is seriously beast atm).

Survivability though… No touching!

No we don’t.

Phantasms have their entire burst negated by a dodge, and we’re already being shifted out of the dungeon meta by organised groups, why should we be made worse?

Supertramp.5430:

As a mesmer myself I think mesmers do need a nerf for some builds damage wise (phantasm is seriously beast atm).

Survivability though… No touching!

Sorry but 1 dodge means all the damage evaded, a few auto attacks (just 1 for some builds) kills them I would say Phantasm is strong but no where near untouchable or unbeatable

The condition Meta owns Mesmers at the moment, we aren’t taken in TPvP, barely used in SPvP, organised groups seem to say no thanks to us as well. This is a CLEAR sign that we need to be BUFFED damage wise? i dont think so but we need some serious love.

Condition builds could use a few touches (Scepter and Torch) we arent using Phantasm builds because they are fun (i find them boring, so do many others i know) and we arent ALL (key word) using shatter builds because they are fun to some they are but because they WORK.

So, Nerf the ones that actually work and means the Mesmer class will be left with very little.

Funny thing is. people who want us nerfed or talking about phantasm is too strong. they are the ones who dont dodge roll and sit there thinking our skills will tickle them.

I literally faced a 2v1.. against a guardian and warrior. and they sat on the point the entire time. while i pew pew. at them. and they didnt even dodge roll not once. downed them both with izerker. without the damage increase to it. and it still did 7k crit :S.

People gotta understand that we crit alot. when we go glass cannon but sacrifice alot.. of survivability when we do.. one perma stun thief or might stacking backstabber. is all u need to do us in tbh. its not that we need a nerf.. its that they really need to learn how to dodge.. if u dodge.. the attacks ull be fine.. if u take out the phantasm. ull be fine.. its just like a spirit ranger.. without there spirits.. they are nothing but a ranger with no utility’s.

But knowing anet. they want mesmers to have no phantasm damage. no stealth 50% damage nerf oh yea i see that comming soon LOL. mine aswell just delete mesmer and make a new class. Cuz at this point we are getting nerfs pretty much every patch. some are even ninjad in aswell lol. while mostly every other class is just getting buffed thro the roof. this is why conditions are so wanted now for like everything at this point.

Yep, the amount of times i have used iZerker and people dont move and expect it to do no damage is really annoying. ALL it would take – Dodge or a few auto hits to kill them but No, they allow them to stay up, allow them to use their attacks and then recharge and use even more.

Yep, even though others getting BUFFED we seem to get nerfed every week :/

selan.8354:

Thats the rumor there, but i dont think anet could go through with that, unless they are planning on changing our entire class around into a different direction.

Iavra.8510:

Honestly, i don’t think they really know WHAT they want mesmers to be…

Very, very, very much this. At this point, nothing will surprise me. If you remember, they COMPLETELY reworked Mesmer in Guild Wars 1 from the ground up, several YEARS into the game. Ultimately, you can’t “balance” a class with unique capabilities (AOE quickness, Portal) and not mess it up somehow. The Devs themselves have said that Portal is giving them problems. The recent Illusionist Celerity nerf is the proof and the start of the Mesmer re-work. I am absolutely fascinated to see what they will do with this profession. The Mesmer we play in a year or two may look absolutely nothing like it does now, and it’s already changed so much since launch.

Iavra.8510:

Honestly, i don’t think they really know WHAT they want mesmers to be…

A Paragon.

(have you played Gw1 when NF came out? Then you know what this mean for Mesmer future balance…)

AndrewSX.3794:

Iavra.8510:

Honestly, i don’t think they really know WHAT they want mesmers to be…

A Paragon.

(have you played Gw1 when NF came out? Then you know what this mean for Mesmer future balance…)

i havent…could u explain, u made me curious

selan.8354:

AndrewSX.3794:

Iavra.8510:

Honestly, i don’t think they really know WHAT they want mesmers to be…

A Paragon.

(have you played Gw1 when NF came out? Then you know what this mean for Mesmer future balance…)

i havent…could u explain, u made me curious

If i am correct (i might not be) it was nerfed into not being used at all.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

selan.8354:

AndrewSX.3794:

Iavra.8510:

Honestly, i don’t think they really know WHAT they want mesmers to be…

A Paragon.

(have you played Gw1 when NF came out? Then you know what this mean for Mesmer future balance…)

i havent…could u explain, u made me curious

If i am correct (i might not be) it was nerfed into not being used at all.

In pvp at launch was over the top, so it got nerfed, and they did the right thing toning it down.

But then they nerfed again.

And again.

After some time (can’t recall how much) Paragon became simply non existant in pvp (and with non existant i mean that NOBODY used it except some RA/duel gimmick builds. Had some friends playing pvp on daily basis telling me a couple of years ago that they didn’t see a Paragon in 2+years of play) and with a single (but strong) build in PvE, relying on a “pve only” skill taken from warrior profession.

AndrewSX.3794:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

selan.8354:

AndrewSX.3794:

Iavra.8510:

Honestly, i don’t think they really know WHAT they want mesmers to be…

A Paragon.

(have you played Gw1 when NF came out? Then you know what this mean for Mesmer future balance…)

i havent…could u explain, u made me curious

If i am correct (i might not be) it was nerfed into not being used at all.

In pvp at launch was over the top, so it got nerfed, and they did the right thing toning it down.

But then they nerfed again.

And again.

After some time (can’t recall how much) Paragon became simply non existant in pvp (and with non existant i mean that NOBODY used it except some RA/duel gimmick builds. Had some friends playing pvp on daily basis telling me a couple of years ago that they didn’t see a Paragon in 2+years of play) and with a single (but strong) build in PvE, relying on a “pve only” skill taken from warrior profession.

Yeah remember hearing something about that. I have said from the start tha Anet needs to bring outsiders in to do the balancing as they are TERRIBLE at it.

I hate to say it, but that sounds like current Mesmer in pvp. And the pvpers are still whinging about Mesmers. Particularly that Phant-spec needs a ~20% damage drop.
You’d think these so-called “pro pvpers” never learned about Dodge, let alone extra Dodge from Sigils of Energy. I am disappoint.

Advent.6193:

I hate to say it, but that sounds like current Mesmer in pvp. And the pvpers are still whinging about Mesmers. Particularly that Phant-spec needs a ~20% damage drop.
You’d think these so-called “pro pvpers” never learned about Dodge, let alone extra Dodge from Sigils of Energy. I am disappoint.

Its going to get more and more nerfs as Anet listen to the casuals. I mean i havent lost to a Phantasm build in ALONG time all it takes, a bit of bit of AoE and a dodge. However people moan the MOMENT they lose to someone rather then admitting that they lost to a better player, they blame the class.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

AndrewSX.3794:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

selan.8354:

AndrewSX.3794:

Iavra.8510:

Honestly, i don’t think they really know WHAT they want mesmers to be…

A Paragon.

(have you played Gw1 when NF came out? Then you know what this mean for Mesmer future balance…)

i havent…could u explain, u made me curious

If i am correct (i might not be) it was nerfed into not being used at all.

In pvp at launch was over the top, so it got nerfed, and they did the right thing toning it down.

But then they nerfed again.

And again.

After some time (can’t recall how much) Paragon became simply non existant in pvp (and with non existant i mean that NOBODY used it except some RA/duel gimmick builds. Had some friends playing pvp on daily basis telling me a couple of years ago that they didn’t see a Paragon in 2+years of play) and with a single (but strong) build in PvE, relying on a “pve only” skill taken from warrior profession.

Yeah remember hearing something about that. I have said from the start tha Anet needs to bring outsiders in to do the balancing as they are TERRIBLE at it.

wow thats sad….yeah anet needs outsiders in their team. if they ruin a class, because they completely fail at balancing, they push many people away.
we choose a class for a reason and i f i main a class, i’ll not swap to another one because of a current meta.I’d rather leave the game and find a new one. but let’s not jump the gun yet, maybe anet will give us buffs or maybe have a plan to change the class a little up and maybe open the way for many new builds.
we will see after pax is over

The problem with Mesmer is, even played by a semi competent player are still very strong dueling class. Unless that changes Mesmer will continue to see people QQing about them and will continue to be nerfed

You could see from the Beta just how “balanced” this game was going to be, it was a NIGHTMARE.

Well, i see about as many stationary gs mesmers as lb rangers…those are not very strong in dueling…

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The problem with Mesmer is, even played by a semi competent player are still very strong dueling class. Unless that changes Mesmer will continue to see people QQing about them and will continue to be nerfed

You could see from the Beta just how “balanced” this game was going to be, it was a NIGHTMARE.

This is actually another problem. Our entire class mechanic is focused on being great a dueling. No other class is so supremely focused on a single target. That’s another reason I am fascinated to see what they will do with the profession. They are going to have to completely redo illusions, our profession’s main ability, or we will either be way WAY too strong at killing 1-2 targets, or way, WAY too weak at dealing with… practically anything else. I am not surprised at all that there are still complaints about us in SPvP. We are STILL pretty amazing at it… and nothing else.
At this point, Anet is in a heap of trouble. The concept of a magical duelist sounds amazing except that it’s too specialized in a game where all professions are meant to be generalized. No matter what they do, they will ruin the profession in one way or another. The only option I see at this point is to re-release the Mesmer profession as something entirely different.

There’s another option. Namely, that they quit giving in to QQ. After all, I’d bet many who play the profession do so because of the “magical duelist” business. These are people who put time into the game, and money into ANet’s collective wallet.

Ramiah.5648:

This is actually another problem. Our entire class mechanic is focused on being great a dueling. No other class is so supremely focused on a single target. That’s another reason I am fascinated to see what they will do with the profession. They are going to have to completely redo illusions, our profession’s main ability, or we will either be way WAY too strong at killing 1-2 targets, or way, WAY too weak at dealing with… practically anything else. I am not surprised at all that there are still complaints about us in SPvP. We are STILL pretty amazing at it… and nothing else.
At this point, Anet is in a heap of trouble. The concept of a magical duelist sounds amazing except that it’s too specialized in a game where all professions are meant to be generalized. No matter what they do, they will ruin the profession in one way or another. The only option I see at this point is to re-release the Mesmer profession as something entirely different.

In my opinion, they messed up with the Phantasms. They ARE to strong and the actual mesmer itself is to weak. The problem they have is BOTH of our mechanics (Phantasms and Shatters) are very strong, but we have very little option to change things up, we have no other really competitive builds and even these only work in WvW and SPvP they are pretty much useless in TPvP and thats why we are hardly being used, until the Meta changes.

Though when that happens and we actually become viable again that is when we will be hit hardest by the nerf bat.

The problem is the fact that the Phantasms can EASILY be dodged or killed yet because the casual player refuses to do either of these things mean they die and when they die they complain and when they complain we get nerfed. Same goes for Shatters, you can tell EXACTLY when they are being shattered as you have loads running towards you, a bit of AoE or a dodge and the shatter is wasted.

Anet has a big problem on their hands, if they nerf it to much the class will be dead unless they are buffed elsewhere (though unlikely) or be buffed in a way that makes us over powered and make even more people complain.

Advent.6193:

There’s another option. Namely, that they quit giving in to QQ. After all, I’d bet many who play the profession do so because of the “magical duelist” business. These are people who put time into the game, and money into ANet’s collective wallet.

That wont happen. They need the casual player to be happy, if the majority want something nerfed it will be nerfed. If the majority want something buffed, it will be buffed.

Nerf bat is on mesmer from last year ! So dont worry , usualy its 1 nerf 1 fix for mesmer so its ok until all fixes done no nerf will be that bad !

dani.1956:

Nerf bat is on mesmer from last year ! So dont worry , usualy its 1 nerf 1 fix for mesmer so its ok until all fixes done no nerf will be that bad !

We got “buffed” last update, though even if it was to 2 minor skills. Anyone else worried what will be nerfed next? hear alot of 20% Phantasm damage nerf around the forums

Thyey’re holding back any balance changes due to PAX tournament.

We’ll have to see what will be done today (patch day so at least some balancing/bugfix should slip in there), but i’d wait the fisrt balance patch after PAX before judging the direction of balance.

PAX = 0 mesmers, I think it describe well, condition of this class…

Heh. And let’s be honest here, PAX lacking a Mesmer contingent hinges heavily on the amount of nerfing done to Mesmers because of ANet’s insistence of balancing an entire game on the whims of its PvP groupies. To be honest, I began to lose faith in their balance team months ago. We’ll have to see if said faith is restored. /shrug

Phent.9350:

PAX = 0 mesmers, I think it describe well, condition of this class…

well this condition heavy meta is kinda tough for mesmers atm and also the heavy cc. we got barely any stability and our condition cleansers are on long cd’s.
although

JonathanSharp said:
You could make a case that Mesmers have a hard time in a hard condition meta, and I think a lot of people would agree with you. They have counters to conditions, but a lot of players don’t like to run those in standard Mesmer setups.

which is not really the case as i really put everything into condition cleansing and then was left with barely any dmg and still melted quickly.
i prefer playing the mesmer without specing into phantasms as skills like glam, reflections, confusion and cc are way more fun. i dont care for mantras as they are not viable at all in their current state…but also not sure if they actually can be fixed.
so if they decide to head in a new direction either fix mantras, rework them or get rid of them

Phent.9350:

PAX = 0 mesmers, I think it describe well, condition of this class…

Yep. Yet people still think the class is an unkillable god mode class that has 1billion health, has perma access to every boon and looking at a target deals 100billion damage in a 1billion range AoE

The problem is casual players, they dont like having to do things that require defensive thinking, they are all about the attack and ignore dodges, evades and such thus they die ALOT and think that every class that has killed them in overpowered and needs a nerf.

selan.8354:

JonathanSharp.7094:

JonathanSharp
You could make a case that Mesmers have a hard time in a hard condition meta, and I think a lot of people would agree with you. They have counters to conditions, but a lot of players don’t like to run those in standard Mesmer setups.

which is not really the case as i really put everythig into condition cleansing and then was left with barely any dmg.
i prefer playing the mesmer without specing into phantasms as skills like glam, reflections, confusion and cc are way more fun. i dont care for mantras as they are not viable at all in their current state…but also not sure if they actually can be fixed.
so if they decide to head in a new direction either fix mantras, rework them or get rid of them

we have ONE Mantra to cleanse TWO conditions that is pathetic in a condition heavy meta, even before the skill has finished the 2 conditions you removed have been put back on you as well as stacks for everything else as well.

Then everything else we have are poorly executed, high cost traits – Shattered Conditions for example, not worthy of 30point trait and then we get things like thr Torch one that has a crappy Phantasm that will remove conditions if you are in range with a long cool down…

You would have to trait for EVERY condition removal, take Geomancy on both weapon sets, runes for condition removal and you MIGHT survive the initial burst, you wont survive the next as everything you had to remove the initial burst is now on cool down….

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Phent.9350:

PAX = 0 mesmers, I think it describe well, condition of this class…

Yep. Yet people still think the class is an unkillable god mode class that has 1billion health, has perma access to every boon and looking at a target deals 100billion damage in a 1billion range AoE

The problem is casual players, they dont like having to do things that require defensive thinking, they are all about the attack and ignore dodges, evades and such thus they die ALOT and think that every class that has killed them in overpowered and needs a nerf.

Exactly. It’s the problem with GW2 catering to casuals, it means you get a bunch of lazy no-skills who can’t be bothered to actually learn the mechanics of other classes, such as a mesmer’s easily dodgeable shatters and phantasms and prefer to just QQ about it until we get smacked with the nerf bat to the point that our face is purple.

colesy.8490:

Exactly. It’s the problem with GW2 catering to casuals, it means you get a bunch of lazy no-skills who can’t be bothered to actually learn the mechanics of other classes, such as a mesmer’s easily dodgeable shatters and phantasms and prefer to just QQ about it until we get smacked with the nerf bat to the point that our face is purple.

Yep. That’s why Thief Stealth will NEVER be fixed. Too many casual players love that and just how easy it is to play it next next to no skill, has HUGE benefit and next to no penalty – if you are winning, kill them. If you think you are going to lose, stealth and run.

We were smacked purple with the confusion/blinding befuddlement hit. At the point of blurred frenzy eating a double beatdown, I’d argue that we’re a horse that has been beaten to death, unkindly raised from the underworld by a local Necromancer, and are currently strapped to a stake, ala Joan of Arc.
At this rate, there are probably two class mechanics left to nerf into the dirt: Shatter and Phantasm. Judging from at least one thread over in PvP land, I’m betting Phantasm’s getting burned next. Worst part is, all they’d have to do to “nerf” it would be to disallow stacking from Empowered Illusions and Shattered Strength. This would bring the damage down, while still allowing for multiple ways to craft a Phantasm-centric build. I won’t hold my breath for that kind of common sense, however.

Advent.6193:

We were smacked purple with the confusion/blinding befuddlement hit. At the point of blurred frenzy eating a double beatdown, I’d argue that we’re a horse that has been beaten to death, unkindly raised from the underworld by a local Necromancer, and are currently strapped to a stake, ala Joan of Arc.
At this rate, there are probably two class mechanics left to nerf into the dirt: Shatter and Phantasm. Judging from at least one thread over in PvP land, I’m betting Phantasm’s getting burned next. Worst part is, all they’d have to do to “nerf” it would be to disallow stacking from Empowered Illusions and Shattered Strength. This would bring the damage down, while still allowing for multiple ways to craft a Phantasm-centric build. I won’t hold my breath for that kind of common sense, however.

Yep, build by build they are destroying the Mesmer class. Once Phantasm builds are dead and buried you can bet they will go after Shatter builds. This is ALL Anets fault for several reason.

1) bowing down to pressure from casual players that refuse to LEARN about the class and how to defeat them and the casual players that think of ONLY attack, no dodges, no defensive play.

2) They i dont think even know themselves what they wanted the class to be, they wanted something unique and fun, they got that but arent happy with it, nerfing the builds that people like but not buffing in areas that could lead to new builds

Seems they now want us as an interrupt class, personally once Perplexity runes are fixed this wont be viable at all. Unless they go all the way and make it so that we cause conditions on interrupt think we give Vul currently but we would need more

Maybe have it so we cause confusion (Via trait, no rune – Warrior can…) gain things like Protection, Retal and such but this would take quite a bit of work and wont make all Mesmers happy.

Due to all of this, thats why i ditched my Phantasm build its only a matter of time before it becomes useless so moved to Condition builds, which i love but alas i know its only a matter of time before thats destroyed as well

Yes, the things that hurts the most is seeing build variety gettin eroded patch by patch, build by build.

It flattens the Mesmer variety to a depressing state.
PvE: Phantasm DPS.
WvW zerg: Glamour master – usually not even confusion anymore cause it’s nearly useless. You’re just a Veil bot.
tpvp: shatter – oh wait, that’s not viable anymore too cause even slotting evey possible cleanse you will be r*ped by conditions.

the only playfield where there is a little of variety probably is spvp (aka: play with bads) and roaming in WvW.

For everything else, running something different from listed above is going to make your perfomance extremely underwhelming.

Well, we can toss conditions on interrupt. Immobilize for free, upon interrupt; followed by a random choice of chill/blind/cripple. We also can gain might, plus a random boon. Halting Strike was heavily improved, and is now something other than an unmitigated joke.
My only concern is that they seek to move us to an interrupt-heavy setup, but arguably have not -yet- completed the necessary retuning of our class. As such, it’s still a bumpy ride, presuming that this is what ANet’s setting Mesmer as, going forward.

PvE: Doesn’t matter,all PvE content is easy
Dungeons: Shatter or Phantasm
Fractuals: Shatter or Phantasm
WvW zerg: Doesn’t matter its a zerg
SPvP: Any, its full of morons anyway
tpvp: None

WvW Solo/small groups we have options…for now but the way its going Anet doesnt want us to be viable in anything :/

For as long as there are a ton of insta-cast skills in this game, interrupt builds are going to have trouble (wtf can you do against guardian shouts?!).

I’m also not interested in using an interrupt build.

I really wish ANet was listening to us, I even made my mesmer my main because I liked it that much but they just don’t want thisclass to evenbe remotely good.

colesy.8490:

I really wish ANet was listening to us, I even made my mesmer my main because I liked it that much but they just don’t want thisclass to evenbe remotely good.

Same feeling.

I struggled to find out a mainc between all my chars (yes i’m a altholic, but had to define a simgle char to priorityze over others, due to all this time-gate cr*p), and my ultimate choice has been between Mes and Guard.

I even started to do stuff on mes, he has ascended stuff fractal lvl and shiny weapons.

Then turned to guardian.

It’s terrible to have your beloved char getting gutted each patch due to some spvp qqer’s.

At least with the Guardian i don’t live with the terror that any month or patch might destroy my build, my equip usefulness or my char althogheter.
Thing that happens on regular basis on Mesmer.

@AndrewSX i am not saying or defending Anet and/or the mesmer however what has exactly been gutted?

Condition damage needed a drop in WvW, but no where near as much as it recieved and in S/Tpvp its never really been too viable in that respect.

all i can see is the current condi damage meta is a tough hit to mesmers, we pack as much punch as ever i believe its just we cant survive and thrive in certain environments because of this exact meta, having a condi removal on stealth might be fun, though i can now survive pretty well, never done any high lvl Tpvp though so i cannot comment on that too much.

We now take ret on blurred frenzy, plus it has a longer cooldown. IC moved to grandmaster so all illusion-summoning skills have 4 seconds longer on cooldown (or 8 in the case of decoy) unless we stick 25 in illusions, blinds/invulns cancel phantasm summons, iLeap still hasn’t been fixed and there’s rumours of phantasms having a -20% damage nerf.

Sure, mesmers are totally FINE.

I rarely ever get annoyed on this forum, but even thinking about the constant mesmer nerfing just infuriates me.

colesy.8490:

We now take ret on blurred frenzy, plus it has a longer cooldown. IC moved to grandmaster so all illusion-summoning skills have 4 seconds longer on cooldown (or 8 in the case of decoy) unless we stick 25 in illusions, blinds/invulns cancel phantasm summons, iLeap still hasn’t been fixed and there’s rumours of phantasms having a -20% damage nerf.

Sure, mesmers are totally FINE.

I rarely ever get annoyed on this forum, but even thinking about the constant mesmer nerfing just infuriates me.

^ This. Shame the nerfs will CONTINUE to happen because Anet doesn’t know what they are doing and they don’t know what they want the Mesmer class to be.