Guild Wars 2

I know it’s been explained ad nauseam, but there really isn’t any other way around it. Why would there even be an incentive to decide on running a condition mesmer when there isn’t even an average return on the investment?

Now specifically on the topic of Confusion, that is our primary damage dealer when it comes to the conditions that the Mesmer has access to. Burn does not provide much and bleed does not either. Vulnerability? I don’t even want to go there.

The new “torment” condition will not change anything because realistically, Mesmers will have limited access to it, much the same as bleed and burn. And with staff being the only true condition applier, the mesmer is very hampered with attempting to fit into the condition damage role.

I really didn’t want to make a long winded post because the point is that with all the other weapons essentially having some type of ability to apply confusion, then it just make sense that confusion damage should be viable. I truly believe it’s slightly underpowered at this point.

For me to have 1600+ condition damage stat and I’m only tickling my foe? Just doesn’t seem right.

I’m sure some will disagree, but I’m making this post since one of the biggest balancing patches is right on the horizon. I’m asking humbly that the devs please within these next two days, consider including a buff to confusion damage.

Amen, brother!!! I’m still ticked off about this. 50% was an INSANE nerf. It needs to go up by at least 30%. Or at the very least change the Master of Misdirection trait (which is now totally useless) to a 33% confusion damage increase, instead of duration increase.

Nerf was way too harsh. That said, I’d be surprised if it’s reverted at all. My money is on them leveraging the new torment condition (beyond just scepter 2) to bring back up condi mesmer viability.

I run a conf mes and I have to agree, PvE and dungeons i find myself almost totally useless and its dissapointing I have to switch gear because its not a viable damage build. However in WvW it is still quite strong. The problem is how do they find the balance without tilting the scales too largely in one direction esp WvW.

I never… ever… died due to confusion. Not even on my button mash Eng. It was a very obvious condition and was easily countered pre-nerf.

Post nerf you just ignore it totally and you’re fine. We’ll see if torment makes up for it being total rubbish.

Rift.4179:

I run a conf mes and I have to agree, PvE and dungeons i find myself almost totally useless and its dissapointing I have to switch gear because its not a viable damage build. However in WvW it is still quite strong. The problem is how do they find the balance without tilting the scales too largely in one direction esp WvW.

Plenty ways. I posted a thread a while ago about how Confusion could work better if it was more reliable both on dealing damage in PvE and on shedding it by not “falling for it” as the enemy in PvP.

What I’d do is basically this:

• Confusion no longer stacks in intensity. Damage needs to be balanced somewhere between 2-6 current stacks, but no clue where.
• Confusion stacks in “charges”.
• Base duration is 4s, trait for +33% duration is removed.
• Every time it deals damage, duration is reset to 4s (this reset should probably not be affected by +duration).
• Every time it deals damage, a charge is spent.
• If charges hit 0 or duration runs out, condition is removed.

The key here is that in PvE, non-bosses will on average attack every ~3 seconds, meaning they will keep the stack going so long as you keep supplying charges.
In PvP, enemies have a very real choice to judge # of stacks and decide whether to “blow through them” or wait out the 4s.

The posts in here are good and I agree with you all.

And it goes without saying how ineffective confusion is in PVE. There needs to be a change to how confusion does damage because mesmers are rendered useless if they build a condition spec for PVE.

Sure the Mesmer can do some things in PVE, but it’s not nearly as effective due to the limited access to conditions and the weak condition damage output.

Not that my opinion really matters here, seeing as I don’t even run a condition built mesmer, I actually focus against it because of its popularity. But my second mesmer will be using confusion and if this nerf is truly that bad, I’m a little scared that she will be ineffective in WvW and PvE as support. Which will be sad because mesmers are a fun class. It seems anything that is fun to play and a slight advantage to a class, there will be a nerf, because how dare we be a little bit better in our ability to trait and put together our builds?
Trial and error would force people to actually learn and play a class to its ability instead of cookie cutter styles with the same things, no? Or am I the only one that believes in actually playing the game?
At any rate
I am agreeing that this condition nerf was a bit on the harsh side, I have noticed a difference. I spent a lot of time on south sun and of all the nerfs, the darn reef drakes were not nerfed and holy moly do they still one shot me!! Nerf that confusion instead of a mesmer! >.>
No, but seriously. As a conditionless mesmer, it was a hard hit, even for me.

FYI, Confusion is never nerfed. It was buffed (x2 damage) for a brief period of time for PVE /WVW. Then there was about to be a burst of confusion mesmers in WVW so they reverted the change back… to its original crappy form. PVE still has the x2 damage.

The problem with confusion is that ANET wants it to be a burst condi… you see.. you can’t make a condition burst, esp. when it stacks intensity. If the condition stacks intensity and bursts at the same time, it’s going to do kittenload of damage. And if you make its damage on par with other condition then it’s not a burst.

I’d say, ANET is doing it wrong. They’re gonna have to come clean on what they actually want on this condition. Otherwise, the problem will continue.

What the nerf on confusion did:

-Made confusion condi builds nonviable
-Nerfed additional DPS done by shatter mesmers through CoF
-Put an internal cooldown on blinding befuddlement destroying glamour builds
-You can now spam through confusion

What Anet should do
- Removal the internal cooldown on blinding befuddlement
- Increase the damage by 33%
- Make the confusion indicator larger

I think the important thing to realize is that confusion, as it stands is marginally better than a bleed, if the opponent attacks every second, and that if they don’t it is worse than a bleed. This is fine, but confusion still works in all mesmer skills as if it is amazingly powerful, which is why it has such short durations. No one would run a weapon for occasional access to 9 stacks of a 3 second bleed, but that’s basically what we have with scepter.

On the other hand glamour builds were ridiculously overpowered pre-nerf. And Engie confusion builds, though gimicky and easily counterable, were also quite powerful and annoying to some people. So there needs to be some sort of balance. Simply buffing confusion damage/duration at this point will recreate the same problem. Therefore, I propose:
a) fixing glamours so that they only proc on 5 targets per 2 seconds. This would prevent them from giving tons of confusion to an entire zerg. The nerf was intended to fix this, but it made the build completely unviable, along with all other confusion builds. Limiting glamours as with other aoe is what is needed.
b) increasing the duration of specific confusion skills. If confusion is a conditional bleed, then it should have a duration in-line with bleeds. Not all confusion has to be equal. If glamours are potentially op’d make their confusion short duration (though maybe a bit longer than it is now). Meanwhile scepter and torch are awful, so make the confusion they cause last long enough to build a respectable stack.
c) buff confusion damage – it doesn’t have to be back to pre-nerf levels, but something moderate would be good. Anything that makes it difficult to attack through confusion would be good.

Mesmers have limited access to other condition damage in the form of bleeds/fire/the new condition. Other classes can easily max out at 25 bleeds on a single targets, whereas mesmers really can’t. So for other classes, like necros, access to other damage dealing conditions is gravy on a solid condition foundation (of bleeds/fears). Rangers and thieves have a similar situation. Those make for solid condition builds, because they can stack up bleeding for max damage, and then top off the damage with other conditions. A confusion mesmer just gets a bit of fire, a few bleeds and constant low levels of confusion or occasional medium stacks. High stacks are relatively hard to pull off. So essentially, a condi-mesmer has mediocre dps…hardly equivalent to a power build, and yet more easily mitigated (through condi-removal). confusion needs to represent a dilemma for the opposing player. If it doesn’t force them to stop immediately, due to threat of burst, then it should last long enough to get them to condition cleanse, retreat or start being selective in their use of skills to reduce the dps they are receiving. Personally, I don’t care if a stack of confusion does no damage to a player, if it forces them to react to me, I’m happy. As is, it does neither, which makes it useless, and as the center piece of the condition mesmer, makes the build as a whole useless.

oh, one other suggestion, buff confusion damage, but make it possible to heal without proccing the confusion damage. I believe this was one of the issues that ANet saw with it, and I don’t think it’s a big deal letting people heal through it. We have stuns and dazes for that sort of counterplay anyhow.

I have a suggestion to improve Confusion scaling off CondDmg from 7.5% to 10% (so a 33% increase from now, or 66% of PvE Confusion scaling instead of 50%).

Improve PvP Confusion Scaling off CondDmg

yes, anet doesn’t understand that wvw and spvp are a whole different gameplay. in wvw u face huge zergs. confusion glamour builds were viable and a good way to counter a large group. i think in any game when u pick a class u should have the choice to make a viable build and playstyle u like. thieves that like tio permastealth…oh well thats what they like. and i like punishing people for mashing buttons and zerging. plus confusion stacks never lasted long. u could reach 25 with multiple glam mesmers, but those dissapear quickly, so all a zerg had to do, was backing off real quick, wait 2sec and rush back in.
I agree though that confusion should not be triggered by healing or dodging skills.
now with the bb trait nerf and the 50 percent, condition stacking and dmg is almost a joke. the bb nerf would have been enough already. i know there is our new condition on its way, but only being able to use it with 1 skill alone is still not enough to back into cond. spec….but its a step in the right direction as i looove to interrupt, cc and punish mindless playstyles.

I have once died because i had 5 stacks of confusion very low hp and popped healing…
You can gues which effects was applied first
(and ironically that was condi removal heal – still confusion damage was placed on top so first i was killed and then there was no condi remowal and no heal because i was dead )

For a “short term fix”, I’d say boost Confusion duration by ~100% in all game modes, then limit it so it only applies to weapon skills + utility skills. Healing, Elite and any non-hotbar abilities are unaffected.
For PvE, enemies should simply have all skills affected I suppose.

That’s not really a proper fix, but it would make it usable again while we wait for more.

@Carighan that would be interesting solve – at least for now.

I’m still baffled that they cut confusion by 50%. There is not logic or reason involved with that decision. Serious. If it was buffed by 15% I think it would be usable again but in it’s current stat any type of confusion shatter mesmer is trash compared to a zerker mesmer.

I’ve ran several variations of my old confusion shatter spec and only the newest of players will die to confusion.

What was incredible is that I barely even saw more than one confusion proc at a time all night long. I would see a confusion tick occasionally but very rarely.

I just don’t have words to describe how much they gutted any type of confusion spec.

What they should’ve done from the start is make it so that more Confusion ticks just increase the damage you’ll take if you’re consistently mashing abilities. So if you’re only hitting a skill every few seconds, the damage taken is rather mild no matter how many stacks you have, but it increases to its damage ceiling the more abilities you’re hitting.

This way players wouldn’t feel ‘stunlocked’ but at the same time they don’t get a free pass to just ignore the condition and mash buttons altogether.

I don’t really have a problem with confusion damage. I think it just needs to last a little longer, and we need to improve some of the means by which we apply it. The main one being Scepter #3, it’s just far too slow of a method of application for what you get in return.

If they sped up the channel of Scepter 3 by 33-50% then it would be more worthwhile using.

Same goes for Torch 5, the iMage is pathetic and we all know it…why is this taking so long for Anet to accept? It’s vastly inferior most others. The confusion it gives is too short for the slowness (once again) of applying it. At least allow our 33% duration buff to affect the iMage that might help a tiny bit, but not much. I like the idea of the iMage being different, but sadly it’s just plain weak.

The best method of application is sadly a iDuelist with a combo-field and the via a bugged (?) trait to ensure it procs every hit. When I manage to get that 8 stack on someone and then throw in some other here or there from Scepter or Shatters, then I’m actually liking Confusion just fine.

It’s just really hard to land that combo on a half-way competent player, and thus it’s usually very easy to avoid getting more then 3-4 stacks of confusion in 1v1. And yes, at that level it’s pathetic meaningless damage.

So IMO the fix really is to improve our means of inflicting stacks of single target Confusion, and leave the AE Confusion the same.

I expected confusion to function like Empathy. I still think it should. Bear in mind that the damage dealt by Empathy constituted about 10% of the average player’s health in Guild Wars 1 with all attribute points allocated to Domination Magic (similar to having the maximum amount of condition damage in Guild Wars 2).

Confusion needs either its duration or its damage to be increased substantially. I’ve been saying this since betas. The argument for this is that it can be removed by condition removal skills, traits, and fields. There is absolutely no reason for confusion to be as weak as it currently is.

@Windwalker if 3-4 stacks of confusion is “meaningless damage” so why when I was using shortbow on ranger and had 4 stacks of confusion form some mesmer I nearly killed myself before I’ve noticed confusion?
aswer is simple – because it depends on some stats called condition damage and on how quick target is using skills (rangers shortbow autoatack is one of speed ones

and don’t forget that confusion damage ignore target armor – so considering that most players are packing more in toughness and really not so many in vitality it will be punishing very much…

Lord Trejgon.2809:

@Windwalker if 3-4 stacks of confusion is “meaningless damage” so why when I was using shortbow on ranger and had 4 stacks of confusion form some mesmer I nearly killed myself before I’ve noticed confusion?
aswer is simple – because it depends on some stats called condition damage and on how quick target is using skills (rangers shortbow autoatack is one of speed ones

Ah, you “nearly killed yourself”.
Let’s assume the Mesmer has some ungodly gear, and has 2k Condition damage. That is absurd I think, 1600 is a more realistic number, but for sake of argument.

1. 215 damage per stack per activation.
2. 860 damage per activation for the stack of 4 you had.
3. Your fastest attacking skill on a shortbow is Crossfire, with 0,5s activation time and 0,25s animation delay, leading to 1,33 attacks per second.
4. Assuming you used no other skill – which would reduce the damage intake – you’d therefore take ~1145 damage every second.
5. Rangers are a medium-HP class. Assuming you are fully glass-cannon built and you avoided each and every single point of Vitality, you’d have 15082 health at lvl80.
6. Minimum TTL is 13,17s.

In short, if 13,2 seconds is “before I noticed” (ignoring that it’s a giant stream of large purple swirls, obscuring your cahracter), then sorry, you were no threat to the Mesmer in the first place. Ever.

The issue with confusion were manly the ability to apply it on massive scale.

Talking about wvw manly.

That do is a bit overboard – while still it just punished bad ppl.

Anyway point is, dmg was the last of the problems – just easiest to fix, thus got heavy hit to be able to skip all others.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

@Windwalker if 3-4 stacks of confusion is “meaningless damage” so why when I was using shortbow on ranger and had 4 stacks of confusion form some mesmer I nearly killed myself before I’ve noticed confusion?
aswer is simple – because it depends on some stats called condition damage and on how quick target is using skills (rangers shortbow autoatack is one of speed ones

and don’t forget that confusion damage ignore target armor – so considering that most players are packing more in toughness and really not so many in vitality it will be punishing very much…

So lets imagine a mesmer maxes out their condition damage and gets around 3k for that stat – which is possible with the right stats, equipment choices and food.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Confusion
the damage would be 65+(3000 × .075) or 290 per stack.
3-4 stacks at a time would be the average that mesmer could get on a single target, while 10 is possible on occasion. That would be between 1000 and 3000 damage per action, but condition cleans works well, as does waiting, because the confusion will go away and the mesmer will be waiting on cooldowns. now if you were pew pewing through 3-4 stacks of confusion, and lets say you had 18k health to start, you’d have to attack 6-18 times to kill yourself, meanwhile the mesmer would have to deal with all of that incoming damage (and I’m sure you do about 1k damage per attack)

The mesmer would do mediocre damage with auto-attacks, and may swap to staff to get some bleeding and fire to do some modest damage that way, but otherwise, this is a mesmer who is fully committed to confusion, and has very few other sources of damage. That build is very easy to counter and beat. Just wait out the confusion and you’re fine. Or you can attack through some of the confusion, especially if you do more damage than the confusion (with my thief on s/d I usually hit for 1.5k-3k on autoattacks, and I’m not a glass cannon build).

Take the other example, lets say someone wants to throw in a splash of confusion in a build with mediocre condition damage. Mesmers always have access to some confusion, since they can pop cry of frustration. So lets say they have 1.5 k condition damage, which is respectable. They may get 4 stacks of confusion on an enemy for 4 seconds every 20 seconds. Lets say its an average enemy that attacks twice through the confusion (not 20 times like your pew pewing self). That would wind up doing about 1.5 k damage.

Take the same example and lets imagine its an 8 second bleed instead of a 4 second confusion (since confusion is usually about half the duration of bleeds). If the 1.5k condition damage build got 4 stacks on you and you didn’t remove them, it’d be 3760 damage.

So as you can see, in every day use, bleeds are more powerful than confusion, and how often do you start to sweat because you have 4 stacks of bleeding on you? So the problem is mesmers can cause some bleeding, some fire and some confusion. But even taken together, it’s barely enough to make a condition build worth playing. You can almost always swap power for condition damage, and run exactly the same build (minus a few confusion boosting traits) and have better damage output, that is also more consistent and harder to counter. As it stands, condition builds on mesmers (both in pve and pvp/wvw) are more for novelty sake than efficacy.

bobross.5034:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

@Windwalker if 3-4 stacks of confusion is “meaningless damage” so why when I was using shortbow on ranger and had 4 stacks of confusion form some mesmer I nearly killed myself before I’ve noticed confusion?
aswer is simple – because it depends on some stats called condition damage and on how quick target is using skills (rangers shortbow autoatack is one of speed ones

and don’t forget that confusion damage ignore target armor – so considering that most players are packing more in toughness and really not so many in vitality it will be punishing very much…

So lets imagine a mesmer maxes out their condition damage and gets around 3k for that stat – which is possible with the right stats, equipment choices and food.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Confusion
the damage would be 65+(3000 × .075) or 290 per stack.
3-4 stacks at a time would be the average that mesmer could get on a single target, while 10 is possible on occasion. That would be between 1000 and 3000 damage per action, but condition cleans works well, as does waiting, because the confusion will go away and the mesmer will be waiting on cooldowns. now if you were pew pewing through 3-4 stacks of confusion, and lets say you had 18k health to start, you’d have to attack 6-18 times to kill yourself, meanwhile the mesmer would have to deal with all of that incoming damage (and I’m sure you do about 1k damage per attack)

The mesmer would do mediocre damage with auto-attacks, and may swap to staff to get some bleeding and fire to do some modest damage that way, but otherwise, this is a mesmer who is fully committed to confusion, and has very few other sources of damage. That build is very easy to counter and beat. Just wait out the confusion and you’re fine. Or you can attack through some of the confusion, especially if you do more damage than the confusion (with my thief on s/d I usually hit for 1.5k-3k on autoattacks, and I’m not a glass cannon build).

Take the other example, lets say someone wants to throw in a splash of confusion in a build with mediocre condition damage. Mesmers always have access to some confusion, since they can pop cry of frustration. So lets say they have 1.5 k condition damage, which is respectable. They may get 4 stacks of confusion on an enemy for 4 seconds every 20 seconds. Lets say its an average enemy that attacks twice through the confusion (not 20 times like your pew pewing self). That would wind up doing about 1.5 k damage.

Take the same example and lets imagine its an 8 second bleed instead of a 4 second confusion (since confusion is usually about half the duration of bleeds). If the 1.5k condition damage build got 4 stacks on you and you didn’t remove them, it’d be 3760 damage.

So as you can see, in every day use, bleeds are more powerful than confusion, and how often do you start to sweat because you have 4 stacks of bleeding on you? So the problem is mesmers can cause some bleeding, some fire and some confusion. But even taken together, it’s barely enough to make a condition build worth playing. You can almost always swap power for condition damage, and run exactly the same build (minus a few confusion boosting traits) and have better damage output, that is also more consistent and harder to counter. As it stands, condition builds on mesmers (both in pve and pvp/wvw) are more for novelty sake than efficacy.

The way I see it, confusion used to be the main attraction. The ice cream cone. Now it’s like the sprinkles on the ice cream cone. You don’t really care that they are there, but it adds a slight diversion. Which sucks because confusion is supposed to be our main, signature condition. Sigh I need some ice cream.

Entropy.4732:

The way I see it, confusion used to be the main attraction. The ice cream cone. Now it’s like the sprinkles on the ice cream cone. You don’t really care that they are there, but it adds a slight diversion. Which sucks because confusion is supposed to be our main, signature condition. Sigh I need some ice cream.

The biggest issue is:
Confusion is the sprinkles iff you trait, gear and spec completely around Confusion. Then it becomes the sprinkles. On… nothing, because that’s all you got.

Carighan.6758:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

@Windwalker if 3-4 stacks of confusion is “meaningless damage” so why when I was using shortbow on ranger and had 4 stacks of confusion form some mesmer I nearly killed myself before I’ve noticed confusion?
aswer is simple – because it depends on some stats called condition damage and on how quick target is using skills (rangers shortbow autoatack is one of speed ones

Ah, you “nearly killed yourself”.
Let’s assume the Mesmer has some ungodly gear, and has 2k Condition damage. That is absurd I think, 1600 is a more realistic number, but for sake of argument.

1. 215 damage per stack per activation.
2. 860 damage per activation for the stack of 4 you had.
3. Your fastest attacking skill on a shortbow is Crossfire, with 0,5s activation time and 0,25s animation delay, leading to 1,33 attacks per second.
4. Assuming you used no other skill – which would reduce the damage intake – you’d therefore take ~1145 damage every second.
5. Rangers are a medium-HP class. Assuming you are fully glass-cannon built and you avoided each and every single point of Vitality, you’d have 15082 health at lvl80.
6. Minimum TTL is 13,17s.

In short, if 13,2 seconds is “before I noticed” (ignoring that it’s a giant stream of large purple swirls, obscuring your cahracter), then sorry, you were no threat to the Mesmer in the first place. Ever.

I’m tough+regen beastmaster i have something like 15-16k hp and to be clear- If I’m saying I nearly killed myself that means tham my health dropped beneath 1/2 of bar.
also I have very messy wwith UI because of big monitor lowest graphical settings etc. in big battles I don’t see many red effects :P
that as something like 7 seconds because I was a little more focused on his health bar than all mine UI, and stopped shooting rigth when I saw I’m beneath 50% of hp – and mostly in my build if I drops beneath that means it’s not good.
also another day those 4 stacks of confusion prevented me from escape from battle I primary would win but circustances have changed and my health dropped beneath 33% – and when I tried to escape and being on enemies target (with healing spring on cd) I killed myself with swoop skill :P
also confusion is dangerous when fighting in big zerg fights – in the sea of red nameplates I rarely see clods of dmg dealt to me.

I’m just trying to make all of You see how it looks like from the other perspective – maybe for You mesmers confusion makes nearly nothing in 4-5 stacks – but for the other side is one of most frustrating condition You have
(btw. mine all condi removals end on healing spring – normally I’m trying to outregen those what could be diffcult with confusion and speed casting skills – when group fights when I see I have confusion on me I’m always angry because I don’t want to waste heal for taking it down immediately, and cannot stop casting gs auto, because then I’ll die – and have a problem because casting it on the longer route is also deadly)

But Trejgon, the issue with such a condition-build is: What do I kill you with? Seriously, that half your healthpool damage you t ook from Confusion? Any other build deals that to you in direct damage, no matter your Toughness. Any direct damage build deals as much from the bleed procs alone I suppose.

What’s the point in taking it? The damage is really bad, considering you invest every point of character into it.

I’m sorry Trejgon, but I’m not really getting your point here. You make a point of how your screen is all screwed up and you’re barely paying attention. And in the midst of this confusion causes minor problems for you? I think that’s the same thing we’re complaining about. When you are not playing well, vs a dedicated condition mesmer, confusion should not cause you minor irritation, it should kill you. It is that mesmer’s main form of damage, and the thing they’ve invested their whole build into, and yet all they managed to do is annoy a half afk ranger.

If it can do all that, what does it do to a character who is actually paying attention and trying? Well it doesn’t even annoy them.

Confusion was never nerfed in pvp and pve, was it? It always dealt double damage in pve than it did in pvp, and I don’t remember the damage formula ever having been changed.

The reason why confusion was so strong in wvw, was because it used the pve formula in a pvp format.So they fixed that, by making wvw’s confusion the same as pvp’s.

And there you have it: that’s why anet “nerfed” 50% of its damage, instead of, say, 15% or something. Because they weren’t directly nerfing it, they just switched the pve formula for the pvp formula.

If confusion is ever to get a real buff or a real nerf, it would probably affect all formats, not just wvw.

Yes yes Diogo, it wasn’t a nerf, it was removing a buff. Doesn’t matter, the nerf (because it was one, by 50% of the power it had just a day before :P ) took 50% of the damage of an ability which was just barely able to kill somebody if you completely specced for it.

Only… now it no longer is. And since the spec bringing it is generally all-or-nothing, that’s… nothing, exactly. Honestly, worse is that for our “class condition”, we care 0 about ever applying it outside of specialized WvW builds, and well those kicked the bucket a while ago.

Confusion needs:

• Substantial buffs to it’s baseline power, duration and applicability.
• Substantial nerfs/removal of it’s traits.
• Removal of Heals / Elites from it.
• In PvE, double duration (not double damage!) from PvP versions.

Then we can talk Confusion nerf or buff. But right now the condition is… well… I actually don’t know, it’S too weak to think about the fact that sometimes I apply it. Doesn’t matter, maybe it blocks a cleanse.

I’m serious, that’s all it is to me. It’s that weak now.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Confusion was never nerfed in pvp and pve, was it? It always dealt double damage in pve than it did in pvp, and I don’t remember the damage formula ever having been changed.

The reason why confusion was so strong in wvw, was because it used the pve formula in a pvp format.So they fixed that, by making wvw’s confusion the same as pvp’s.

And there you have it: that’s why anet “nerfed” 50% of its damage, instead of, say, 15% or something. Because they weren’t directly nerfing it, they just switched the pve formula for the pvp formula.

If confusion is ever to get a real buff or a real nerf, it would probably affect all formats, not just wvw.

Are you really coming in here and arguing semantics? Do you think we’re all idiots who need a lesson on semantics?

You want to tell us how killing Rhino’s for their horn’s isn’t poaching it’s “harvesting”

Or

Making it hard for unions to organize in certain states are called “Right to work” states. LOL yeah sure.

I’ll call a duck a duck when i see a duck.

Entropy.4732:

The way I see it, confusion used to be the main attraction. The ice cream cone. Now it’s like the sprinkles on the ice cream cone. You don’t really care that they are there, but it adds a slight diversion. Which sucks because confusion is supposed to be our main, signature condition. Sigh I need some ice cream.

The ice cream cone is a lie…

But you know what sucks most about all the nerfs is that I actually have to play other professions now to be effective yet be mindless while doing so. Necro for instance, one simply spams marks and epidemic everywhere and numbers suddenly appear on your screen reaffirming your usefulness. Guardian is worse (in wvw at least) where you simply spam 1 on your staff.

confusion is a poo. They say you can’t polish a poo. So instead they rolled it in glitter and hoped people wouldn’t notice. They then decided to remove half the glitter and just put a mirror ball above it. Anyway you look at it, if you roll a mesmer with the intend of using confusion as your main damage..you know like you could in gw1, punish people for using melee, or punish them for using spells depending on what skills you took, or even just punish them for doing nothing,..well your have some great epic fail.
In one match I slowly cut a warrior down with confusion..next time we met, they had learned to just back off until it was gone. Not that it mattered, at 10 stacks they only took 1200 dmg on skill use. If they had spammed skills and I got lucky, I could have done 5.5k dmg all up..so you know, 3x auto attacks from a thief..all this for the easy investment of all my weapons, all my utilities, all my traits focused on confusion/glamour and the opponent just ran away instead laughing, “What ya gonna do now kitten?….”
I am surprised in the chat panel I didn’t have the rest of the map laughing at me, “OMG..They tried to use confusion as a weapon..lol.”

easy fix for anet is to make it skills torment boring but practical.
limit the access and stacks increase duration,make it do low dmg for flavor and high when using a skill, done everyone happy.
scepter aa gives confusion and make it less clunky boom gr8 weapon.
or they can just add an effect to it to compensate for the nerf like when a enemy use a skill you get 1 sec retaliation.