Guild Wars 2

Good morning all! While I had trouble sleeping last night I was thinking about my sexy mesmer and some of it’s more underutilized traits. The main trait I was thinking about was “Bountiful Disillusionment”. Its a skill that gives the mesmer retaliation, might, fury and regeneration on demand.

Thinking about this gave me the idea to make a mesmer in the same vein as a celestial d/d elementalist, i.e. a giant boon hoarder. Through selective traits, gear and runes its entirely possible to have even better might stacking capabilities than a d/d ele plus every other boon in the game.

This is just a theory-crafting thread so please comment with your input/changes/opinion. If you’re extra awesome, give it a whirl in the open world. I’m poor and don’t pve very often so crafting celestial gear will take me forever so I can only test it in pvp.

The Build (wvw/pve):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7cl0npTtlpxNNcrNivBZ6GEgLeuSg2dUEA-T1CBAB4p+zdKNsSZwVKxuZ/BAuIAe8AASR3grKBfw8XGHBASB41yI-w

In Brief
In an ideal world where butterflies fly with rainbows and sparkles trailing behind you have here a mesmer with the potential to have 2,500 power (with 25 might stacks), 2700 armor +33% damage reduction with lots of nasties like torment/confusion/retaliation, decent sources of heals and multiple sources of condi cleanses.

The Theory
0/0/6/3/5

“:o a build that doesn’t use deceptive evasion? Blasphemy!”

The idea behind this build was to choose traits that supported boons. While this build utilizes shatters to get boons, the number of clones you shatter isn’t as consequential since bountiful disillusionment doesn’t stack per illusions shattered. Shattered Strength gives you 16sec of might per illusion shattered yes, but staff is a good clone spawn factory so we won’t have to worry too much about never having clones up.

The Boons

You have multiple sources of might stacking, your best coming from bountiful interruption (5 stacks with no icd…op). Its very possible to make it to 25 stacks by yourself. In theory of course.

Illusionary Membrane grants 5.5 sec of protection when you have regeneration. It has an icd of 15 sec which means due to your ample access to regeneration you should have protection 36% of the time. This number can further increase due to random traits, like chaos armor and bountiful interruption and earth runes. In reality the figure would probably be more like 50% but its random.

You also have high up time on retaliation and regeneration. Regen heals for 2.3K on distortion, 3K on metaphysical rejuvenation, and 700 from phantasms.

All the other boons are bonuses.

The Rest

-You have a decent spread of cover conditions like torment, confusion and bleeding you should also have decent damage reduction and decent damage output with all your boons.

-This build has no stability, but unlike the elementalist it has stealth and two blinks.

-There is a lack of swiftness so maybe focus would be a better offhand for the scepter.

-Scepter does good condition damage, scales well with power and like the staff produces a lot of clones.

So here’s the theory folks. What are your ideas? What do you think? I will probably test it tonight in pvp, see how it goes even though it’s not optimal for pvp…maybe.

The biggest issue is that this build just….doesn’t do anything. You don’t have the defense to bunker (and I don’t think this was your goal anyway). However, you also don’t have the offense to do literally anything at all. If you manage to get a bunch of might stacked (which I doubt you’ll actually maintain the majority of the time) you still have no way to deal damage!

Lets look at this problem closer. How will you do damage on this build? You don’t have DE, so you’ll be starved for clones. You don’t have a single trait boosting shatters or shatter damage in any way (boons for the sake of boons don’t count), so shatters absolutely won’t do damage. You don’t have halting strike, so no damage from there. You don’t have either of the two phantasm damage mods, nor do you have phantasm health bonuses, nor do you have phantasmal fury, so your phantasms absolutely won’t be doing damage.

You also have no good method of applying conditions. You don’t have on-clone-death traits (which are useless without DE anyway), you don’t have IE for staff autoattack spamming (which is semi-useless without DE again), you don’t have MtD, you don’t have sharper images, you don’t have anything other than staff autoattacks and the scepter block really.

Essentially, you’ve got a build that does one single thing: puts boons on itself. You don’t put boons on allies, you don’t do damage, and you don’t bunker. What’s the point?

Lets compare this to the other standard cele builds: ele, engie, and warrior.

Warrior usually goes longbow + some melee stuff. Longbow has a ton of great conditions. Melee stuff on warrior all does fairly strong damage, and they stack might throughout with blast finishers and such. You have the decent defense and sustain of celestial backing up a strong offense.

Engineer usually just picks nades or something and spams everything. Engineers naturally have good hybrid damage between crazy condition load and decent power scalings, so they fit really naturally into this kind of build.

Elementalists work perfectly with celestial, because all of their weapon-sets come pre-equipped both for condition damage and power damage. Most of the time they pick one or the other, but celestial allows them to pick both.

As you can see, all of these builds have definite strong sources of offense within them, while using boons and celestial defense stats to provide more tankiness and sustain than they’d usually have. Your build has 0 offense in any way, and doesn’t have enough tankiness to be worthwhile on its own as a bunker.

(I edited the post to reflect my original idea of using runes of the earth; the numbers are better.)

You’re right! It’s kind of a weird build! I understand your reaction and I hope I didn’t make you drop your biscuits and tea all over your keyboard in disgust. Its a theory build none the less, so lets chat.

About the no damage nay saying: I’m not sure because I haven’t tried it but essentially you’re right, without might stacks this build does no damage.

About maintaining might: With so many readily available sources of might I don’t understand why it wouldn’t be maintainable. Shattered Strength = 1×15secs per shattered clone, cry of frustration = 3×22secs, bountiful interruption 5×15secs per interrupt, plus winds of chaos and battle sigil. These aren’t one-use-only skills, these will be used multiple times. Maybe you know something I don’t?

About lack of clones: every now and again while changing between zerg and roaming builds I forget to trait DE. :o!!!!!!!!!!! Oh noooooeeezzz111. I still manage to kill plenty of people before I realize my noob mistake, hehe. DE = 1 clone on dodge. Great for damage fodder but not the end of the world if you don’t trait it. Mesmer kitten clones, you will never be starved for clones.

But essentially doing damage in this build relies entirely on your might stacks, like most celestial builds. I completely disagree with your hyperbole about lack of damage reduction. 2700 armor plus protection isn’t to be laughed at. And lack of damage potential. You’re really going to sit there and tell me that based on these traits this build will not be able to maintain at least 10 stacks of might at all times?

I appreciate your input but I think some of it is a little over exaggerated. Remember its only a theory post ladies and gentleman, none of its been tested.

Thanks for the reply anyway :P

I guess based on these weapons, staff would only be used defensively and to proc chaos armor, while scepter would be used offensively, its scaleablity with power and its native torment and confusion damage could be effective.

Edit:

If you want more upfront damage, you can mix and match more zerker soldier gear like this:
http://de.gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7cl0npTtlpxNNcrNivBZ6GEgLeuSg2dUEA-T1CBAB4p+zdKNsSZwVKxuZ/BAuIAe8AASR3grKBfw8XGHBASB41yI-w

But then you kind of lose the idea of being a celestial mesmer, lol.

I guess I wasn’t clear enough with what I said.

On defense:

You’ve got plenty of defensive stats and such. This build will definitely be reasonably tanky. However, you’re absolutely not a full tank. You’re not going to be effectively bunkering a point in PvP with this due to the lack of stability (stunbreaks don’t really work in place of stab, I’ve tried it pretty extensively). You’re also not going to be on the front line of a WvW group (because you bring nothing to that front line). That’s why I say you’re not really a tanky/defensive build.

On Offense:

Again, assuming might stacks…your offensive stats are fine. The big problem is that mesmer doesn’t work like other classes in the game as far as damage goes. You can’t just take a random set of traits/weapons/etc and do damage. Mesmer normal damage is absolutely horrid (and this is why leveling a mesmer sucks so much). You have to specialize into something. Conditions from things, phantasms, shatters, a mix of those, whatever. You have to specialize into something in order to do damage.

The build that you have here specializes into nothing. You have literally 0 potential to do damage. As far as I can tell, the extent to which you’ve figured out where you’re doing damage is this:

fluxit.8247:

while scepter would be used offensively, its scaleablity with power and its native torment and confusion damage could be effective.

The problem is that this simply isn’t even close to enough. You have a bit of torment from the auto, the torment block is good, and the confusion beam is subpar as usual. The power damage from the torment block is low, from the auto is low, and from the confusion beam is easily avoided.

So I’ll recap it again. This build doesn’t have enough of a focus on defense to actually take a typically defensive role (and this isn’t what you designed it for). The problem is that this build is specialized to do absolutely nothing other than put boons on yourself. You have absolutely zero mechanics in your build that allow you to output any reasonable damage whatsoever.

I understand this is just a theory post, but there’s a reason that nobody has done something like this before, and I’m generally pretty good at figuring out what a build is going to do before it does it. Bountiful Dissilusionment, on top of all of the other problems in this build, is just a horrible trait that simply has no use. I literally haven’t seen a single build even remotely viable that’s using it yet.

Ele benefited from celestial build because of extra stats in all areas, heal, critical, condition etc. Celestial build don’t work very well unless you can produce 25 stacks of might which is not possible to self proc on mes unlike ele. Mesmer damage is pretty low on zerker build compare to other classes. On celestial build your DPS is rock bottom,unless your planning to be support mes.

Fay.2357:

I understand this is just a theory post, but there’s a reason that nobody has done something like this before, and I’m generally pretty good at figuring out what a build is going to do before it does it. Bountiful Dissilusionment, on top of all of the other problems in this build, is just a horrible trait that simply has no use. I literally haven’t seen a single build even remotely viable that’s using it yet.

I know, I know, but a part of me wants to believe that they don’t just add these traits randomly. I want to believe that they input them in their specific places for a reason. I just think that this trait was designed to work in a highly durable might stacking build with high sustain. I’ve tried to make builds around it in the past with a more support focus, but the inspiration trait line has all the good support skills. .

I guess you guys don’t want to play theory games. Here, let me show you how it’s done.

“I think in order to use this set up more effectively you need more power and to use runes of the hoelbrak to increase might duration and decrease condition duration applied to you”

or

“I think you shouldn’t focus on boosting protection up time because mesmer’s don’t have very good access to protection anyway”

or

“I think you should take some points out of illusions and put them in inspiration to play more of a support role”

Its all just a game guys, see. No need to take it so seriously.

Here’s a picture of serious cat <3

!https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/c0.15.851.315/p851x315/411008_10150587538534599_1309291440_o.jpg!

fluxit.8247:

I know, I know, but a part of me wants to believe that they don’t just add these traits randomly. I want to believe that they input them in their specific places for a reason.

Yeah, uh…

As much as a part of me wanted to believe that too, that part died a long time ago. Find a possible explanation for disruptor’s sustainment that doesn’t involve malicious trolling or gross incompetence.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRAsd7clknpRtlpxINcrNCvBZ6IUgNi6fkkPWqAA-TlyCABxp+kittenNA4EA8kyAoUidxTAQQ9DnqE0n9HQw8HpAgZOA-w

Here’s the best tweaks I can make for your build to make it at least viable for fighting. Forget PvE, there’s simply a far better approach. For WvW though you could get some traction out of this, for duels, solo roam, that sort of thing.

The changes introduce swiftness to the build (focus) and in place of DE decent clone output via use of main sword, scepter 2, and sword OH. If you’re patient and keep kiting so that your clones can spawn and not get cut down to fast by AoE etc, you can play defensively to begin with to apply some countering pressure (riposts etc) then start shattering to apply Torment/confusion while bursting those might stacks. The direct damage won’t be zerk’mazing, but it’ll still add up in the thousands when your shatters and various phants/attacks hit.

Going to all that effort to make a celestial set on a Mesmer though……. (<- dot dot dot dot)

So I tested the original build with full celestial just before and it feels really clunky in pvp. The amount of might stacks you usually hover around with all these traits is an average of 15, fluctuating between 25 and 9 but its all highly dependent on timing your interrupts just right.

Verdict, exactly what fay said. It did do sustained damage over a period of time but there just wasn’t enough conditions to go around.

can you test this one? I just wonder how it will do without DE.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7cnsISnaWoG2oBzaGx0gM9NiROQ9YOzSJVAA-TZRGwAAuAAJeCAEOIAo2fYZZAA

fluxit.8247:

So I tested the original build with full celestial just before and it feels really clunky in pvp. The amount of might stacks you usually hover around with all these traits is an average of 15, fluctuating between 25 and 9 but its all highly dependent on timing your interrupts just right.

Verdict, exactly what fay said. It did do sustained damage over a period of time but there just wasn’t enough conditions to go around.

And this is because you focused purely on stacking boons, neglecting the damage aspects of the build. You need to first decide how your build wants to deal damage, and then you can take a look and decide how you want to provide the boon support for it.

With that in mind, perhaps take a look at this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArc8alknpMt1oxRNcrNSpxY6cmZHSuQAl8kyB-TJxHwADeCAAOJAi2foYZAA

this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW8clknpMt1oxRNcrNSpxY6cmZHSuQAl8kyB-TJxHwADeCAAuIAi2foYZAA

or this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7clknpMt1oxRNcrNSpxY6cmZHSuQAl8kyB-TJxHwADeCAAuIAi2foYZAA

The general concept of these is that you’re going to might stack with BI, control with CI, deal power damage with your phantasms using phantasmal fury and dom III, and then deal condition damage either with sharper images on phantasms and clones, or with on-clone-death traits combined with DE. I don’t really know how effective it’ll be, but that’s the best I’ve got.

I would suggest something like this for WvW:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRAsa7fl0npMtNqxGNcrNyqxY6WO5lTtUpvI7AA-TFCEABwpfwu9HEUJImq/IxJBQLlfA8AAa4IAEAAB4mtZb2mBDdoDdoDdotzdO0huzdWKAYWGB-w

A lot of condition remove, defensive stats, decent mobility, cc and might stacking. I´ve played something close to this for at least 2 months and it´s a solid solo roaming build.

If you test this in PvP, the damage will be mediocre at best, but the WvW output is pretty high due to guard and bloodlust stacks.

Celestial works great. Try condi shatter with BI, it’s very very strong. Get might on interrupt, weapon swap, shatter and GS 2 + illusionary elasticity. Easy to get 20+ stacks quick and keep them up.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJAWRlknpTtlqxRNcrNCuBZyJ0AUfkhcySGgfB-TJxHwADeCAa2fAwlAoYZAA

-Sizzap