Guild Wars 2

It’s with changes like these that the difference between Anet devs and Blizzard devs really shows. I don’t miss much from WoW, but mathematical balance and reliable viability is absolutely nowhere to be found in GW2. Everything is random and band-aided.

fix the freaking map completion star before you make a random buff and then nerf that buff the following patch. do any of the devs have foresight in any small degree?? balancing in this game is a mindless pendulum of idiocy.

Pyroatheist.9031:

For the people who insist on saying that the global cooldown is a fix, and not a nerf, understand that you are wrong. It is entirely possible for a change to be both a fix AND a nerf, and this is most certainly the case with this change.

What Anet should have done, was actually fix the exploit, without nerfing the rest of the mesmer playstyle. What they ended up doing was fixing the exploit by changing something not directly related to the exploit itself, simply because it was easier to code. This is just pure laziness on the part of the devs, and completely unacceptable.

So you’re saying using mesmer shatters the way I described correct?

kenshinakh.3672:

The .25 GCD on shattering sounds more like a bug fix to prevent unintended usage of the mesmer illusions.

I asked my mesmer friend what it was because I never knew this bug, and he told me it makes sense to fix it. Why? Well, remember that the f1-f4 abilities do damage/whatever amount it says based on the number of clones? So using f1 SHOULD consume your CURRENT clones. However, with the bug, you could use f1-f4 or use them in a combo, effectively getting the effects of all your clones on different abilities. That’s totally not how mesmer was meant to be played… F1 should just be used for your current clones, and f2-f4 shouldn’t benefit for those clones your f1 is using. That’s my 2 cents.

As far as I know, the f1-f4 shatter abilities are meant for your current clones up, and if you use f1, your current clones should be marked for f1, and f2-f4 shouldn’t affect or count them at all.
So, let’s say they implemented the way I described instead, where your current clones get flagged for f1 and will not be affected by f2-f4. Won’t that confuse the player? Maybe they’ll activate f1 and f2 at the same time, and then notice that f2 did absolutely nothing because the clones are all marked for f1. Wouldn’t a .25 gcd prevent that instead?

Please expand and explain why you think otherwise o.O.

kenshinakh.3672:

Pyroatheist.9031:

For the people who insist on saying that the global cooldown is a fix, and not a nerf, understand that you are wrong. It is entirely possible for a change to be both a fix AND a nerf, and this is most certainly the case with this change.

What Anet should have done, was actually fix the exploit, without nerfing the rest of the mesmer playstyle. What they ended up doing was fixing the exploit by changing something not directly related to the exploit itself, simply because it was easier to code. This is just pure laziness on the part of the devs, and completely unacceptable.

So you’re saying using mesmer shatters the way I described correct?

kenshinakh.3672:

The .25 GCD on shattering sounds more like a bug fix to prevent unintended usage of the mesmer illusions.

I asked my mesmer friend what it was because I never knew this bug, and he told me it makes sense to fix it. Why? Well, remember that the f1-f4 abilities do damage/whatever amount it says based on the number of clones? So using f1 SHOULD consume your CURRENT clones. However, with the bug, you could use f1-f4 or use them in a combo, effectively getting the effects of all your clones on different abilities. That’s totally not how mesmer was meant to be played… F1 should just be used for your current clones, and f2-f4 shouldn’t benefit for those clones your f1 is using. That’s my 2 cents.

As far as I know, the f1-f4 shatter abilities are meant for your current clones up, and if you use f1, your current clones should be marked for f1, and f2-f4 shouldn’t affect or count them at all.
So, let’s say they implemented the way I described instead, where your current clones get flagged for f1 and will not be affected by f2-f4. Won’t that confuse the player? Maybe they’ll activate f1 and f2 at the same time, and then notice that f2 did absolutely nothing because the clones are all marked for f1. Wouldn’t a .25 gcd prevent that instead?

Please expand and explain why you think otherwise o.O.

That implementation will not confuse the player, because we are assuming that they are halfway competent at playing the mesmer class. Part of playing a shatter mesmer is being able to shatter, pop out more clones, and do a second shatter while the first clones are still running to the target to shatter. This should be possible without causing some sort of exploit that makes mind wrack count clones from another shatter into its damage calculation.

The way the exploit worked was as such: Clones were produced for f3, then shattered. While the clones were in transit to the target, clones were produced, and shattered with f1. The f1 shatter counted both sets of clones into its damage calculation, causing extremely high damage.

The fix to this is obvious, you simply prevent one shatter from mistakenly counting clones that have already been earmarked for another shatter, just like you said. What Anet did is a common enough fix in coding that is used if you want to be lazy, and if it won’t affect the rest of the program. Instead of actually fixing the problem, they changed something else that allowed the problem to be resolved. Unfortunately, they didn’t seem to consider that this change has a very bad effect that is completely unrelated to the bug, and has never existed in the mesmer class, namely needing cooldowns between using shatters.

Overall, while Anet could have simply fixed the bug, they didn’t. They took the lazy coder’s way out by changing something else that happened to affect the bug, and gave mesmers a good strong kick in the family jewels at the same time.

I see what you mean, but there’s also a catch to doing it as I described.

Mind Wrack, your f1 ability, gets weaker for each clone you have out. If they did it as I described, you’ll be getting less damage from your f1 ability upon using f2-f4 immediately after a clone explodes on contact.

I’m not entirely sure what Anet meant for mesmers to do with illusions, but when I play that class, I always understood that f1-f4 consumes all your clones in order to create the spell effect. The tooltip sounds like it means for us to use all our clones on one ability at a time too. Using it to explode different abilities one at a time would seem like using mesmers a way the designers never meant them to be (though if you can, all the more power to you because it requires some skill to do so). That’s why I saw the fix as making it pretty clear that f1-f4 uses all your current clones regardless and you have to spawn new clones to use the others.

kenshinakh.3672:

I see what you mean, but there’s also a catch to doing it as I described.

Mind Wrack, your f1 ability, gets weaker for each clone you have out. If they did it as I described, you’ll be getting less damage from your f1 ability upon using f2-f4 immediately after a clone explodes on contact.

I’m not entirely sure what Anet meant for mesmers to do with illusions, but when I play that class, I always understood that f1-f4 consumes all your clones in order to create the spell effect. The tooltip sounds like it means for us to use all our clones on one ability at a time too. Using it to explode different abilities one at a time would seem like using mesmers a way the designers never meant them to be (though if you can, all the more power to you because it requires some skill to do so). That’s why I saw the fix as making it pretty clear that f1-f4 uses all your current clones regardless and you have to spawn new clones to use the others.

Ah, it seems like you are slightly mistaken on how this mechanic works. Allow me to explain it more precisely.

If you have 3 clones out, and use a shatter, these clones effectively no longer exist. The three dots on the gui will still be filled, but you can spawn more clones immediately without causing the older clones to be overwritten (they would immediately die in that case). Basically what it does is that when you use a shatter, your clones become a living projectile attack, no longer permanent creations on the battlefield, but another guided attack heading your way, freeing up the slots for more clones to be created.

With the bug, this transformation of current clones into guided missiles was not done completely, and so the guided missiles got double-loaded when mind wrack was used immediately after the first shatter, as if someone reached into the missile, and added an extra stack of C4 to the payload. The only thing that needed fixing was preventing this extra loading from occurring. Everything else about this mechanic worked perfectly.

Israel.7056:

SteepledHat.1345:

You’re just realizing this now? Every change they’ve made seems to have been done at the behest of thieves, warriors, and guardians on the SPvP forum.

I had naively hoped that perhaps Anet wouldn’t behave like every other MMO company I’ve ever purchased a game from but it seems that, as it has been with every other game, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

So you set yourself up for dissapointment, and Anet are to blame?

Pyroatheist.9031:

kenshinakh.3672:

Pyroatheist.9031:

For the people who insist on saying that the global cooldown is a fix, and not a nerf, understand that you are wrong. It is entirely possible for a change to be both a fix AND a nerf, and this is most certainly the case with this change.

What Anet should have done, was actually fix the exploit, without nerfing the rest of the mesmer playstyle. What they ended up doing was fixing the exploit by changing something not directly related to the exploit itself, simply because it was easier to code. This is just pure laziness on the part of the devs, and completely unacceptable.

So you’re saying using mesmer shatters the way I described correct?

kenshinakh.3672:

The .25 GCD on shattering sounds more like a bug fix to prevent unintended usage of the mesmer illusions.

I asked my mesmer friend what it was because I never knew this bug, and he told me it makes sense to fix it. Why? Well, remember that the f1-f4 abilities do damage/whatever amount it says based on the number of clones? So using f1 SHOULD consume your CURRENT clones. However, with the bug, you could use f1-f4 or use them in a combo, effectively getting the effects of all your clones on different abilities. That’s totally not how mesmer was meant to be played… F1 should just be used for your current clones, and f2-f4 shouldn’t benefit for those clones your f1 is using. That’s my 2 cents.

As far as I know, the f1-f4 shatter abilities are meant for your current clones up, and if you use f1, your current clones should be marked for f1, and f2-f4 shouldn’t affect or count them at all.
So, let’s say they implemented the way I described instead, where your current clones get flagged for f1 and will not be affected by f2-f4. Won’t that confuse the player? Maybe they’ll activate f1 and f2 at the same time, and then notice that f2 did absolutely nothing because the clones are all marked for f1. Wouldn’t a .25 gcd prevent that instead?

Please expand and explain why you think otherwise o.O.

That implementation will not confuse the player, because we are assuming that they are halfway competent at playing the mesmer class. Part of playing a shatter mesmer is being able to shatter, pop out more clones, and do a second shatter while the first clones are still running to the target to shatter. This should be possible without causing some sort of exploit that makes mind wrack count clones from another shatter into its damage calculation.

The way the exploit worked was as such: Clones were produced for f3, then shattered. While the clones were in transit to the target, clones were produced, and shattered with f1. The f1 shatter counted both sets of clones into its damage calculation, causing extremely high damage.

The fix to this is obvious, you simply prevent one shatter from mistakenly counting clones that have already been earmarked for another shatter, just like you said. What Anet did is a common enough fix in coding that is used if you want to be lazy, and if it won’t affect the rest of the program. Instead of actually fixing the problem, they changed something else that allowed the problem to be resolved. Unfortunately, they didn’t seem to consider that this change has a very bad effect that is completely unrelated to the bug, and has never existed in the mesmer class, namely needing cooldowns between using shatters.

Overall, while Anet could have simply fixed the bug, they didn’t. They took the lazy coder’s way out by changing something else that happened to affect the bug, and gave mesmers a good strong kick in the family jewels at the same time.

Yes, because it’s absolutely vital that mesmers be able to shatter, pop more clones, and shatter again within a quarter of a second.

There isn’t a single ability in this game that you can expect to be able to counter that takes a quarter of a second to work. If someone’s using an ability you don’t want them to use, don’t use Mind Wrack. If someone uses an ability you don’t want them to use after you use Mind Wrack, pop more clones and use a defensive shatter; it’s gonna take them more than a quarter second to use that ability, and a quarter second is all the time you need.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Ah, it seems like you are slightly mistaken on how this mechanic works. Allow me to explain it more precisely.

If you have 3 clones out, and use a shatter, these clones effectively no longer exist. The three dots on the gui will still be filled, but you can spawn more clones immediately without causing the older clones to be overwritten (they would immediately die in that case). Basically what it does is that when you use a shatter, your clones become a living projectile attack, no longer permanent creations on the battlefield, but another guided attack heading your way, freeing up the slots for more clones to be created.

With the bug, this transformation of current clones into guided missiles was not done completely, and so the guided missiles got double-loaded when mind wrack was used immediately after the first shatter, as if someone reached into the missile, and added an extra stack of C4 to the payload. The only thing that needed fixing was preventing this extra loading from occurring. Everything else about this mechanic worked perfectly.

Ohh, I see now. That makes sense.

I can’t really say much more about it then. Hopefully devs can explain what was the intention of the .25s cooldown (maybe having the possibility of too many clones exploding nearly at once was too much and needed a short cooldown?).

kenshinakh.3672:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Ah, it seems like you are slightly mistaken on how this mechanic works. Allow me to explain it more precisely.

If you have 3 clones out, and use a shatter, these clones effectively no longer exist. The three dots on the gui will still be filled, but you can spawn more clones immediately without causing the older clones to be overwritten (they would immediately die in that case). Basically what it does is that when you use a shatter, your clones become a living projectile attack, no longer permanent creations on the battlefield, but another guided attack heading your way, freeing up the slots for more clones to be created.

With the bug, this transformation of current clones into guided missiles was not done completely, and so the guided missiles got double-loaded when mind wrack was used immediately after the first shatter, as if someone reached into the missile, and added an extra stack of C4 to the payload. The only thing that needed fixing was preventing this extra loading from occurring. Everything else about this mechanic worked perfectly.

Ohh, I see now. That makes sense.

I can’t really say much more about it then. Hopefully devs can explain what was the intention of the .25s cooldown (maybe having the possibility of too many clones exploding nearly at once was too much and needed a short cooldown?).

There is no need for the devs to explain what the .25s cooldown is. Anyone who has ever done coding in their life instantly recognized what they did. There was no ulterior motive or other mechanic identified that needed change, the devs were simply lazy. The .25s cooldown was a lazy way of making the fix, and that is exactly what they did.

Pyroatheist.9031:

There is no need for the devs to explain what the .25s cooldown is. Anyone who has ever done coding in their life instantly recognized what they did. There was no ulterior motive or other mechanic identified that needed change, the devs were simply lazy. The .25s cooldown was a lazy way of making the fix, and that is exactly what they did.

I get what you mean. I myself am a coder 5+ years, for my degree and work, and I do a ton of C++ coding related to games and balancing game mechanics. However, I can see an ulterior motive to the .25s cooldown, and that is preventing mesmers from exploding too many clones too quickly that the person they’re fighting can’t react in time.

But, we can test this to be sure. Have clones charge in from far away, and in their travel time, the .25s cooldown should be done, and you’ll be able to explode clones again. If it still reproduces the bug of the abilities counting the marked-for-explode clones, then we know that the devs did a band-aid fix which didn’t actually address the problem lol. Then, we can nicely point it out to their devs :P. As far as programming goes, if they already have code that detects whether a clone is already marked for exploding (since you can summon more while a clone charges), then fixing it wouldn’t be hard and should just require small logical changes in code.

Shizune Fujibayashi.4813:

Pyroatheist.9031:

kenshinakh.3672:

Pyroatheist.9031:

For the people who insist on saying that the global cooldown is a fix, and not a nerf, understand that you are wrong. It is entirely possible for a change to be both a fix AND a nerf, and this is most certainly the case with this change.

What Anet should have done, was actually fix the exploit, without nerfing the rest of the mesmer playstyle. What they ended up doing was fixing the exploit by changing something not directly related to the exploit itself, simply because it was easier to code. This is just pure laziness on the part of the devs, and completely unacceptable.

So you’re saying using mesmer shatters the way I described correct?

kenshinakh.3672:

The .25 GCD on shattering sounds more like a bug fix to prevent unintended usage of the mesmer illusions.

I asked my mesmer friend what it was because I never knew this bug, and he told me it makes sense to fix it. Why? Well, remember that the f1-f4 abilities do damage/whatever amount it says based on the number of clones? So using f1 SHOULD consume your CURRENT clones. However, with the bug, you could use f1-f4 or use them in a combo, effectively getting the effects of all your clones on different abilities. That’s totally not how mesmer was meant to be played… F1 should just be used for your current clones, and f2-f4 shouldn’t benefit for those clones your f1 is using. That’s my 2 cents.

As far as I know, the f1-f4 shatter abilities are meant for your current clones up, and if you use f1, your current clones should be marked for f1, and f2-f4 shouldn’t affect or count them at all.
So, let’s say they implemented the way I described instead, where your current clones get flagged for f1 and will not be affected by f2-f4. Won’t that confuse the player? Maybe they’ll activate f1 and f2 at the same time, and then notice that f2 did absolutely nothing because the clones are all marked for f1. Wouldn’t a .25 gcd prevent that instead?

Please expand and explain why you think otherwise o.O.

That implementation will not confuse the player, because we are assuming that they are halfway competent at playing the mesmer class. Part of playing a shatter mesmer is being able to shatter, pop out more clones, and do a second shatter while the first clones are still running to the target to shatter. This should be possible without causing some sort of exploit that makes mind wrack count clones from another shatter into its damage calculation.

The way the exploit worked was as such: Clones were produced for f3, then shattered. While the clones were in transit to the target, clones were produced, and shattered with f1. The f1 shatter counted both sets of clones into its damage calculation, causing extremely high damage.

The fix to this is obvious, you simply prevent one shatter from mistakenly counting clones that have already been earmarked for another shatter, just like you said. What Anet did is a common enough fix in coding that is used if you want to be lazy, and if it won’t affect the rest of the program. Instead of actually fixing the problem, they changed something else that allowed the problem to be resolved. Unfortunately, they didn’t seem to consider that this change has a very bad effect that is completely unrelated to the bug, and has never existed in the mesmer class, namely needing cooldowns between using shatters.

Overall, while Anet could have simply fixed the bug, they didn’t. They took the lazy coder’s way out by changing something else that happened to affect the bug, and gave mesmers a good strong kick in the family jewels at the same time.

Yes, because it’s absolutely vital that mesmers be able to shatter, pop more clones, and shatter again within a quarter of a second.

There isn’t a single ability in this game that you can expect to be able to counter that takes a quarter of a second to work. If someone’s using an ability you don’t want them to use, don’t use Mind Wrack. If someone uses an ability you don’t want them to use after you use Mind Wrack, pop more clones and use a defensive shatter; it’s gonna take them more than a quarter second to use that ability, and a quarter second is all the time you need.

Any build up traits or things of that nature that you would use an interrupt on take more than 1/4 second to charge. psh even our phant summoning skills take like 1.5 seconds.

jportell.2197:

Shizune Fujibayashi.4813:

Pyroatheist.9031:

kenshinakh.3672:

Pyroatheist.9031:

For the people who insist on saying that the global cooldown is a fix, and not a nerf, understand that you are wrong. It is entirely possible for a change to be both a fix AND a nerf, and this is most certainly the case with this change.

What Anet should have done, was actually fix the exploit, without nerfing the rest of the mesmer playstyle. What they ended up doing was fixing the exploit by changing something not directly related to the exploit itself, simply because it was easier to code. This is just pure laziness on the part of the devs, and completely unacceptable.

So you’re saying using mesmer shatters the way I described correct?

kenshinakh.3672:

The .25 GCD on shattering sounds more like a bug fix to prevent unintended usage of the mesmer illusions.

I asked my mesmer friend what it was because I never knew this bug, and he told me it makes sense to fix it. Why? Well, remember that the f1-f4 abilities do damage/whatever amount it says based on the number of clones? So using f1 SHOULD consume your CURRENT clones. However, with the bug, you could use f1-f4 or use them in a combo, effectively getting the effects of all your clones on different abilities. That’s totally not how mesmer was meant to be played… F1 should just be used for your current clones, and f2-f4 shouldn’t benefit for those clones your f1 is using. That’s my 2 cents.

As far as I know, the f1-f4 shatter abilities are meant for your current clones up, and if you use f1, your current clones should be marked for f1, and f2-f4 shouldn’t affect or count them at all.
So, let’s say they implemented the way I described instead, where your current clones get flagged for f1 and will not be affected by f2-f4. Won’t that confuse the player? Maybe they’ll activate f1 and f2 at the same time, and then notice that f2 did absolutely nothing because the clones are all marked for f1. Wouldn’t a .25 gcd prevent that instead?

Please expand and explain why you think otherwise o.O.

That implementation will not confuse the player, because we are assuming that they are halfway competent at playing the mesmer class. Part of playing a shatter mesmer is being able to shatter, pop out more clones, and do a second shatter while the first clones are still running to the target to shatter. This should be possible without causing some sort of exploit that makes mind wrack count clones from another shatter into its damage calculation.

The way the exploit worked was as such: Clones were produced for f3, then shattered. While the clones were in transit to the target, clones were produced, and shattered with f1. The f1 shatter counted both sets of clones into its damage calculation, causing extremely high damage.

The fix to this is obvious, you simply prevent one shatter from mistakenly counting clones that have already been earmarked for another shatter, just like you said. What Anet did is a common enough fix in coding that is used if you want to be lazy, and if it won’t affect the rest of the program. Instead of actually fixing the problem, they changed something else that allowed the problem to be resolved. Unfortunately, they didn’t seem to consider that this change has a very bad effect that is completely unrelated to the bug, and has never existed in the mesmer class, namely needing cooldowns between using shatters.

Overall, while Anet could have simply fixed the bug, they didn’t. They took the lazy coder’s way out by changing something else that happened to affect the bug, and gave mesmers a good strong kick in the family jewels at the same time.

Yes, because it’s absolutely vital that mesmers be able to shatter, pop more clones, and shatter again within a quarter of a second.

There isn’t a single ability in this game that you can expect to be able to counter that takes a quarter of a second to work. If someone’s using an ability you don’t want them to use, don’t use Mind Wrack. If someone uses an ability you don’t want them to use after you use Mind Wrack, pop more clones and use a defensive shatter; it’s gonna take them more than a quarter second to use that ability, and a quarter second is all the time you need.

Any build up traits or things of that nature that you would use an interrupt on take more than 1/4 second to charge. psh even our phant summoning skills take like 1.5 seconds.

So in short I agree.

It’d be nice to get some dev comments on this; namely is it permanent, if so will there be different changes to compensate? if it’s not should we look forward to the next patch cycle to have it fixed?

I’m shelving my mesmer for good.

I don’t pvp with it at all and almost never saw any shimmering bodies in pve.

the might stacks provided an engaging playstyle and brought those shimmering bodies so I could actually gasp loot more than just chests.

I’m done. I’m hanging it up and continuing with my ele, after which I’ll probably do guardian or engineer.

Another fine example of changes to pvp that mess up pve. I wish anet would realize they need to split the skills between pvp and pve or they will just keep running into problems like this.

Rainu.6871:

Another fine example of changes to pvp that mess up pve. I wish anet would realize they need to split the skills between pvp and pve or they will just keep running into problems like this.

No, they need to learn PATIENCE and put up a public test realm with feedback options.

The might stacking was not the issue. The posts by experienced mesmers in the PVP forums did the math and explained the basics of the exploit which was causing 100% extra mind wrack damage.

Instead of fixing this and waiting, they nerfed the ever loving bejesus out of the one thing that was finally giving mesmers a decent time in pve.

plasmacutter.2709:

Rainu.6871:

Another fine example of changes to pvp that mess up pve. I wish anet would realize they need to split the skills between pvp and pve or they will just keep running into problems like this.

No, they need to learn PATIENCE and put up a public test realm with feedback options.

The might stacking was not the issue. The posts by experienced mesmers in the PVP forums did the math and explained the basics of the exploit which was causing 100% extra mind wrack damage.

Instead of fixing this and waiting, they nerfed the ever loving bejesus out of the one thing that was finally giving mesmers a decent time in pve.

That would hopefully keep them from making obviously stupid decisions like this one but it wouldn’t remove the underlaying problem that pvp and pve differs very greatly in the type of enemy and thus what’s needed. Pvp has got smart enemies with low health while pve has got stupid mobs with huge health pools.

Rainu.6871:

Another fine example of changes to pvp that mess up pve. I wish anet would realize they need to split the skills between pvp and pve or they will just keep running into problems like this.

If they are going to fix every single problem with a profession because it doesn’t work for PvE or PvP you’ll get 2 different professions in the future. In my opinion it’s much better to make a profession’s skills and traits equally good in both aspects of the game.

Aniltiger.9186:

Rainu.6871:

Another fine example of changes to pvp that mess up pve. I wish anet would realize they need to split the skills between pvp and pve or they will just keep running into problems like this.

If they are going to fix every single problem with a profession because it doesn’t work for PvE or PvP you’ll get 2 different professions in the future. In my opinion it’s much better to make a profession’s skills and traits equally good in both aspects of the game.

It would be better if it was possible although as I mentioned in my previous post, the types of combat are so different that I don’t think they can. For some reason they still appear to think they can turn GW2 into an esport game despite the massive failure that spvp has turned into (it might be possible but it would require a lot more than some class changes) but they still very often balance in favor of pvp to the detriment of pve (and I’d be surprised if it’s more than 5% of the population who focuses on spvp over pve).

So, the only buff we got so far has already been nerfed.
I’m going back to my Guardian.

Good fix on shatter. Rolling back Shattered Strenght don’t make much difference, although I’m not sure why they did that.

They nerfed shattered strength because tons of people kittened about how mesmer was actually getting buffed, and attributed the 100% shatter bug damage increase to the extra massive 10% damage increase from 9 stacks of might.

Too bad most classes have easy access to that kind of might anyway, just people like to complain hardcore anytime mesmer gets any sort of buff apparently, and ANET apparently listens to it. There were clearly a handful of people in these forums constantly complaining that 9 stacks of might were imbalanced and ridiculous for mesmers, you can easily spot who they are, lol.

They should just make pve more like pvp if they don’t want to split the skills. I think it’s nice when i’m in pve and the ranged mobs run out of my feedback and don’t attack when i put up a counter-block. This needs to be more common (on the intelligent enemy types ofcourse)

It always amazes me who ppl in rl and in game so easy forgot the posetive parts and what they already got, and just focus on what they lost. Like a poker player who win 100 dollar, the loses 20, go of the table sad cause he only got 80 + when he for a while had 100.

This is what just happened, we did get 3 huge buffs for shatter mesmers,then we got 1(!) of the 3 buffs not fully rolled back but tuned down.

I guess i should clarify exactly how I feel for this patch and how it affect the game for shatter mesmers. First I can say im kinda happy, woot is he mas you now think but in fact if we look at just 3 week back in time we ALOT stronger now than then. Sens start of december we got,

1×3 stacks of might for 10 seconds for a 3 clone shatter buffed from 5 sec, a 100% uptime buff

5 sec vigour / crit instead of 1 sec, 100% incombat uptime

8 stacks of vouln for 8 seconds /daze, a huge dmg buff.

What we lost is the huge might stacking, but still we got to keep alot of the buffs, especialy the vigour one is night and day. It let us use aprecision stacking sigil instead of energy sp we run around with several hundered higher precision.

The 0,25 sec cd on shatters will demand a little planning, but overall it vill go fast to adjust to it.

/Osicat

PS: Latest High dmg 1 vs x Movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJzO2btc1iE

Osicat, this is nice for pvp, and I don’t doubt that mesmer is still more than fine there, but the might stacking was finally generating lootable corpses in pve, where the only reliable way to stack the might came from greatsword and staff clones that stood at range (and thus would not be insta-killed by the swarm of undead).

It was the defining factor in making mesmer capable of appreciable loot in these events and in other zergy dungeons. (I keep thinking coe and certain FOTM in addition to cursed shore).

It is now gone, and not because it necessarily needed to go. The bug fix was probably enough.

ANet does not care about mesmer players. Apparently the class is not popular enough to represent a credible player-exodous threat, so they are free to slap around anyone who plays mesmer like a cheap hooker rather than take a measured approach.

Compare this to how the devs are actually starting forum threads asking thieves how they would prefer to be balanced.

It speaks volumes to me.

Don’t worry Osicat, there are already some pvpboys talking about nerfing vulnerability stacks on daze and put a 10s cd for deceiptive evasion. If they got enough people to follow their QQ, you can expect more nerf incoming for the mesmer.

@Sabyne; They BETTER NOT kitten TOUCH my kitten deceptive evasion! It’s the only kitten thing keepin me from deleting both my mesmers! I mean what am I gonna be forced to play ina month? Mantras? -.-

Well I don’t really think this will effect me all that much, I hardly ever hit more than 1 shatter at a time and because my clones are normally ranged staff clones and will never make it to the mob in 0.25s then I can probably still get MW and CoF in on one set of clones.

The adjustment to SS is justified and was rather OP.

So yes, it makes us a little weaker but we’re still strong enough.

Better nerf mesmers than Irelia -> happy new years mesmers!

Thing is they prefer nerf a class that got a 15 days buff than fixing the 30+ issues that suffers the mesmer since the launch of the game. Many of our traits are bugged, many are useless, they are many issues with our mechanic (conditions of activation of our fantasms…) but they keep focusing what makes us good and enjoy make it broken.

Has someone counted the buff/nerf ratio of the mesmer and the other classes? It should be interesting to know it!

Kind regards,
Crowfang.

With the new nerf to shattered strength I was still able to get around 18 stacks of might using GS and two shatters…

I agree with the 0.25 cd on shatters…. but with shattered strength nerfed now my support build is 3/4 screwed.

I recently started a YouTube series called “Nerf or Buff.” In it I attempt to addresses the update notes from a Mesmer’s perspective and analyze how it affects builds as a whole. If you have the time or are simply bored, feel to free to check it out in the following link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFC2RWaxIG0

Mere Image.8376:

fix the freaking map completion star before you make a random buff and then nerf that buff the following patch. do any of the devs have foresight in any small degree?? balancing in this game is a mindless pendulum of idiocy.

We at Arena Net are aware of your 5,000 bugs. We will fix them soon™. Oh we’ll be lowering all your damage and increasing Phantasm cooldowns.

Nemhy.5230:

Mere Image.8376:

fix the freaking map completion star before you make a random buff and then nerf that buff the following patch. do any of the devs have foresight in any small degree?? balancing in this game is a mindless pendulum of idiocy.

We at Arena Net are aware of your 5,000 bugs. We will fix them soon™. Oh we’ll be lowering all your damage and increasing Phantasm cooldowns.

I don’t think the nerf was really all that bad. I’m just upset with how quickly they nerfed a buff they only recently implemented into the game, while leaving bugs that have been present since the game’s release.

pengfx.8376:

They nerfed shattered strength because tons of people kittened about how mesmer was actually getting buffed, and attributed the 100% shatter bug damage increase to the extra massive 10% damage increase from 9 stacks of might.

Too bad most classes have easy access to that kind of might anyway, just people like to complain hardcore anytime mesmer gets any sort of buff apparently, and ANET apparently listens to it. There were clearly a handful of people in these forums constantly complaining that 9 stacks of might were imbalanced and ridiculous for mesmers, you can easily spot who they are, lol.

But Mesmer’s Might gives more damage. It’s a really complicated exploit that someone with low understanding of the game (IE you) will not understand. =3

Has anyone legit said that anywhere? I have the feeling if someone said that on the sPvP boards we;d get more nerfs

Mere Image.8376:

Nemhy.5230:

Mere Image.8376:

fix the freaking map completion star before you make a random buff and then nerf that buff the following patch. do any of the devs have foresight in any small degree?? balancing in this game is a mindless pendulum of idiocy.

We at Arena Net are aware of your 5,000 bugs. We will fix them soon™. Oh we’ll be lowering all your damage and increasing Phantasm cooldowns.

I don’t think the nerf was really all that bad. I’m just upset with how quickly they nerfed a buff they only recently implemented into the game, while leaving bugs that have been present since the game’s release.

I understand and agree. I’m just being a dick and making jokes about it to help cope with that fact. We still have about 30 bugs SINCE release and Scepter is still a complete joke weapon. (though I think Necros have it worse with the bugs that are being ignored)

1. give line of sight and miss for phantasm summon (nerf)
2. bug that kittened GS 4. and bug that make illusion have delay1-2 sec before attack.(bug)
3. fix bug and give cd for illusion 1st attack (-0.25S nerf) and buff SS to 3 might.
4. put back SS to 1 might and give shatter CD (-0,25S nerf).
….
is it just me or it seems like every patch gives us permanent nerf!! maybe with some icing that feels like a fix in disguise..
…..
cant wait till january update where maybe.. all the nerf comes out all at once with some temporary buff that will be canceled within 1 or 2 next updates

Thoughts of new update?

Arenanet Promotes macro uses. Legit Players that could do quick pressses (Like Shatter and use Divsion with Illusionary Persona to Daze) got nerfed. While people with macros can insert .25 delay and do the combo everytime perfectly.

Lets not mention you are unable to use diversion after a shatter if you gonna get bursted.

Well, if it worked with so much QQ let me try -

WHAAAAAAA cut down the thieve’s damage, and put CD on HS.

WHAAAAAAAAAA cut down the guardian’s healing and take down their book.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA take down hundred blades from the warrior, along with endure pain.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA take chill from rangers.

QQ Anet, you suck, QQ(((((((((

i wonder if this is the right format to write to Anet, it seems they listen to crying people?

PS. I’m not concerned bout the changes, 0.25 on shatter is nothing and prevents bugs. Although i’m a little disapointed about shattered strenght. No matter though, you keep nerfing us, we keep melting you. I wonder where the next QQ is going now. WHAAAAAA take clones away from mesmers :<

And btw Anet, instead of trying to answer to all of the cry babies, try and fixing bugs. I report tons of stuff and yet you turn to mesmers (surprise surprise) and change something. Everyone shuts up, as they just like to hear “mesmers got nerfed again”, yet the bugs are still in the game. Bugs with 1month+ old -.-

Ele D/D is actually over the other classes but let’s nerf the mesmer (I’ve an ele).

More than this precise nerf, that’s the fact that ANet keeps focusing always the mesmer when they want to nerf something that’s boring.

Issues with X and Y -> let’s nerf the mesmer and maybe…?
Oh, it hasn’t changed anything on X and Y but I nerfed the mesmer so why should I up him back to what he was before the nerf?
At every patch, we can notice no sense nerf again and again and NO bug fixes, why that?

Kind regards,
Crowfang.

I feel like not reporting bugs, cheaters or whatever. In my case, i completed all of the hints and tips tab and no achievment, as they stopped the counting on 80/83. Reported about 5 times (it happened a month ago) and nothing.

Tired of playing my mesmer (among other classes) and when i use the attack 2 on staff i get stuck in rocks, under water and whatever. Bug solving? nah, nerf mesmer.

So why the hell should i report bugs, cheaters or whatever? I feel like looking the other way and simply don’t care bout Anet, as they simply don’t care bout the game.

People cried like hell in the beginning because of HS (i played a thief back then) , and Anet did nothing bout it. 0.25 secs CD? Mesmers only, gg!

Elementalists doing a charge and taking almost half your life with the first burst? (and i’m not glass cannon specced) Sure, no prob!

Elementalists and Guardians impossible (!!!!) to kill while PH spec? No prob, give them even more heal.

Hey, let’s take out the mesmer clones, or reduce their damage. Or even take away their stealth, they’re not thieves!! Or even better, take their weapons away, they can only attack with utilities! That will improve the game! <—— How Anet thinks. Instead of patting your programmers in the back, try and do something bout the game itself and not one class or another. I do not ask for nerfs in the other classes, i only ask – one – simple – thing…… Fix the f’ing bugs from the game! (And in the future improve maps like Cursed Shore – Lotsa rocks and Lotsa undead, that’s it for now; Create more PvP modes – Team Deathmatch, Last Man Standing, etc.)

love the changes. no more shatter exploit and SS nerf everyone that know the class was expecting it because was very OP on sPvP.

full of see crap mesmer on spvp using the exploit. at least now no one can say mesmer so much strong compared other class on 1vs1. now they cant stack huge amount of migth and that is ok for me because we already have good dps.

next change i suppose will be a nerf on thief (internal CD on skills to prevent spam, a 0,25s internal CD seem pretty good) and ele d/d

Well, this update did little to me (being a condition mesmer). I think this is more as an urgent response to an issue rather than a solution. With the next update, all will become clear.
Looking forward to see a constant speed buff and the same internal CD applied to Thieves!

What cracks me up, with the SS bit:

Now, a Mes was able to (by fragging 3 of their main class resource) quickly stack 9 Might. There’s this fun little Guardian Staff ability (Empower, iirc.) that stacks a good 12 Might – in one freaking move – and heals in a small AoE.

Shattered Strength was OP? Are you serious?

With that said:
Fine, ANet – why don’t you then …
1.) Fix the map completion star for Mesmers
2.) Revert this buggy Phantasm LoS stuff – fact is, if the enemy can “see” me, and attack … why. on. sodding. EARTH can I not consistently slap Phants on their behind?
3.) Kindly fix our stealth issues. I’m tired of failing to stealth in a fight, and eating unneeded c/d.
4.) Since folk on the pvp side cry like little girls about Portal: drop the c/d, and limit it to 5 people. There are still ways to work around it, even then.

Thank you, have a nice day.

I don’t mind the nerf that much, but they could have added a GCD to thief, they can spam skills right…

Also map completion thing is fixed if I’m not wrong. It’s invisible for enemy players in WvW or spvp.

What they can add is that mesmer downed clones is somewhat tougher, and add downed player arrow so they can’t insta finish you, all they do is watch that downed arrow and bam you are dead anyway.

Advent.6193:

Since folk on the pvp side cry like little girls about Portal: drop the c/d, and limit it to 5 people.

Yes, please please please. I’m also getting sick of PvP balancing changes going into PvE as well.

I have no problem with the new update. It’s obvious that shatters were never meant to be used in the way the exploit allowed and that 3 stacks of might for shattered strength was a mistake. Only support builds that focused on buff generation and transference using signet of inspiration will be really hurt by this as the Mesmer was already pretty darn good in a fight in sPVP without the need for large stacks of might.

kenshinakh.3672:

The .25 GCD on shattering sounds more like a bug fix to prevent unintended usage of the mesmer illusions.

I asked my mesmer friend what it was because I never knew this bug, and he told me it makes sense to fix it. Why? Well, remember that the f1-f4 abilities do damage/whatever amount it says based on the number of clones? So using f1 SHOULD consume your CURRENT clones. However, with the bug, you could use f1-f4 or use them in a combo, effectively getting the effects of all your clones on different abilities. That’s totally not how mesmer was meant to be played… F1 should just be used for your current clones, and f2-f4 shouldn’t benefit for those clones your f1 is using. That’s my 2 cents.

I don’t think many people would disagree with you about that.
I certainly don’t.

The issue we are having is not that we can’t exploit shatters anymore,
But that they didn’t actually FIX the broken mechanic, they just made it so it’s harder to trigger the broken mechanic, and in turn made it a lot harder to do a lot of common skill rotations that mesmers do (Generate clones, roll towards your enemy, pop mind wrack/cof then immediately use daze/distortion with iPersona with no illusions to give yourself a second to get out of melee range). If they had actually gone in and fixed the algorithms that controlled shattering, it would be different.

But what they’ve actually gone and done is make the shatter build much less viable, as it is now much more dangerous for us to be anywhere near our enemy. That .25 seconds is all it takes for a thief to stun and burst us to kitten.
And considering they’ve made non-shatter builds less viable in previous patches, they’re quickly leaving mesmer with nothing to do but be a portal kitten for people.