Guild Wars 2

Simonoly.4352:

I have no problem with the new update. It’s obvious that shatters were never meant to be used in the way the exploit allowed and that 3 stacks of might for shattered strength was a mistake. Only support builds that focused on buff generation and transference using signet of inspiration will be really hurt by this as the Mesmer was already pretty darn good in a fight in sPVP without the need for large stacks of might.

Most people couldn’t care less about spvp, what this patch did was remove one of the only reliable ways mesmers could tag enemies enough to get loot in DEs. A split would be optimal since at the moment any balance changes will either gimp or buff pve or pvp.

EnRohbi.2187:

But what they’ve actually gone and done is make the shatter build much less viable, as it is now much more dangerous for us to be anywhere near our enemy. That .25 seconds is all it takes for a thief to stun and burst us to kitten.

God forbid! I feel for you, I really do…

Laika.8795:

EnRohbi.2187:

But what they’ve actually gone and done is make the shatter build much less viable, as it is now much more dangerous for us to be anywhere near our enemy. That .25 seconds is all it takes for a thief to stun and burst us to kitten.

God forbid! I feel for you, I really do…

Yeah, yeah,
I know the normal mage philosophy is “Stay at range or you’re kittening up”,
But iPersona forces you into melee range to get any use out of what is one of the better traits we have (And a trait we spend 30 trait points to get, so I like to get use out of it)

Rainu.6871:

Simonoly.4352:

I have no problem with the new update. It’s obvious that shatters were never meant to be used in the way the exploit allowed and that 3 stacks of might for shattered strength was a mistake. Only support builds that focused on buff generation and transference using signet of inspiration will be really hurt by this as the Mesmer was already pretty darn good in a fight in sPVP without the need for large stacks of might.

Most people couldn’t care less about spvp, what this patch did was remove one of the only reliable ways mesmers could tag enemies enough to get loot in DEs. A split would be optimal since at the moment any balance changes will either gimp or buff pve or pvp.

Hence why I specifically said sPvP. But I agree, a PvP/PvE split would be ideal.

I have a question for the ppl in uproar over the shatter gcd. It seems like a total non-issue to me so I must be missing something.. AFAIK shatters work like this:

I have 3 illusion out.
I press F1, the gcd starts, my illusions run to target and shatter.
I use a skill to create another illusion.
I press F3 to shatter that one.

So with the new cooldown, I have to wait .25 seconds between f1 and f3… but I do have to take an action that creates an illusion in the meantime, right? don’t those take a certain amount of time?

say it’s something really quick, like the clone-on-dodge, doesn’t that still take at the least .2 seconds? .. so is all this complaining over gcd really over something as narrow as having to wait an extra .05 seconds?

GrandmaFunk.3052:

I have a question for the ppl in uproar over the shatter gcd. It seems like a total non-issue to me so I must be missing something.. AFAIK shatters work like this:

I have 3 illusion out.
I press F1, the gcd starts, my illusions run to target and shatter.
I use a skill to create another illusion.
I press F3 to shatter that one.

So with the new cooldown, I have to wait .25 seconds between f1 and f3… but I do have to take an action that creates an illusion in the meantime, right? don’t those take a certain amount of time?

say it’s something really quick, like the clone-on-dodge, doesn’t that still take at the least .2 seconds? .. so is all this complaining over gcd really over something as narrow as having to wait an extra .05 seconds?

As far as the gcd goes, the only thing it really affects (for the exact reason you stated) is Illusionary Persona. As with it, you can use shatters without any illusions out to create the shatter effect on yourself. IE: You’re about to get hit, slap f4 and get 1 second of distortion right before the attack connects. It’s saved my life more times than I can count.

What happens then is, when you take this trait, you end up being much closer to the enemy than you would otherwise. You can get 4xMind Wrack or 4xCry of Frustration if you’re close. Because of this, many mesmers have taken to closing the gap between their enemy, using MW/CoF and then immediately popping Diversion or Distortion to give them that second to get back out of melee range.

.25 seconds is a lot of time to wait, and when you’re right in your enemy’s face in wvw/pvp, can cost you your life if they have any sort of decent reflexes.

Thanks for the reply, Illusionary Persona was the puzzle piece I was missing to make sense of this.

EnRohbi.2187:

And that doesn’t even touch on the fact that instead of actually fixing the bug with multiple shatters, they just slapped a big ugly bandaid solution over it that only hurts people who weren’t abusing the bug to begin with.

Bingo. Fixing a bug by globally nerfing all IPersona builds isn’t the right way to go.

I wish this was a temporary fix until the proper fix makes its way through QA, but there’s no official word whether or not that’s the case.

Btw, another combo I use quite often: I have illusions out and need to interrupt. Instead of wasting multiple illusions on the interrupt, I Mind Wrack them, then hit Diversion. With the .25s delay, it’s gotten much harder to do that before the skill finishes.

SS nerf? May or may not have been needed, but I wonder why it was put in an emergency patch instead of the next regular balance update. Would have been a good opportunity to check the mesmer’s strength post-bugfix before wielding the nerf-bat twice.

Has anyone tried to trigger the exploit after the patch? To my knowledge, the way it worked was by triggering mind wrack while the distortion clones were still in transit to their targets. Adding the .25 second global cooldown makes it more difficult for that bug to occur, but it should not make it impossible.

I never actually tested the bug prior to this patch, so I don’t know precisely how to trigger it. What I can say is that in testing right now in the heart of the mists, I was unable to produce the high damage. I got out 3 clones, shattered with diversion, hit mirror images, shattered with mind wrack, and had 5 clones running to the target, with only 2 hits from mind wrack occurring.

Tub.4560:

I wish this was a temporary fix until the proper fix makes its way through QA, but there’s no official word whether or not that’s the case.

None whatsoever, except maybe this…

JonPeters.5630:

ilJumperMT.4871:

Can you kindly confirm that the .25 second GCD is temporary and will be removed when you fix the exploit?

That was the plan but fixing it for real is going to take some time so no timeframe right now.

Jon

ReginaBuenaobra.6953:

I’m just including the link to the post from Jon Peters that Laika quoted above, so people can see the context:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/25-Cooldown-on-Shatters/first#post1142800
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/25-Cooldown-on-Shatters/first#post1142946

But what about PvP whining negatively effecting PvE Mesmers yet again?

I asked it more elegantly in that linked thread.

Be happy that’s all they did. Most of the power from the current Shatter build comes from Illusionary Persona, not the Might stacks. Without IP you wouldn’t even see any problems in the GCD.

Unless you’re spamming Illusionary Persona’d shatters the GCD isn’t bad. And Shattered Strength Needed to be toned down. Though I think they should have justice it a set “X Might when you shatter” trait like the self-healing one is.

Shattering is still extremely viable. Maybe stop relying on others and look at the other changes we received in that patch…

Okay, still stumped? Fine. Go look at the changes to the Dazzling Trait. Now, if only we had a way to hit an opponent with 4 Dazes simultaneously…

something had to be done. is this a permanent fix? who knows

Its a fine fix and something we all knew was gonna happen, so dont feel so violated.

Galrukh.6532:

Its a fine fix and something we all knew was gonna happen, so dont feel so violated.

WHAT!?

NOBODY thought a global CD was gonna happen! They don’t exist in this game for a reason. And it’s not a direct fix, anyway. It’s a band aid fix that nerfs another, valid tactic we use that didn’t even involve the bug/exploit.

daydream.2938:

something had to be done. is this a permanent fix? who knows

Oh my dear god, do you read?

Gaiawolf.8261:

Galrukh.6532:

Its a fine fix and something we all knew was gonna happen, so dont feel so violated.

WHAT!?

NOBODY thought a global CD was gonna happen! They don’t exist in this game for a reason. And it’s not a direct fix, anyway. It’s a band aid fix that nerfs another, valid tactic we use that didn’t even involve the bug/exploit.

Agreed, but we knew it was gonna be fixed. Its a temporary bandaid that will be removed again and lets be honest, 0.25 sec is such a short time that it really shouldnt affect your tactics (it definately doesnt affect mine.

Watch, this will be like the Ranger Crossfire “fix.”

When this thread is long gone, the devs won’t give a kitten about it and keep the GCD on shatters.

This patch actually has a pretty severe effect on my current build, I use iPersona illusionless shatters as a source of healing with the grandmaster inspiration trait, so having this .25s CD actually drastically hurts my ability to burst heal.

I’ll probably have to drop my rata sum runes and go back to the flock for awhile to compensate until the bandaid is removed :/

LumAnth.5124:

Watch, this will be like the Ranger Crossfire “fix.”

When this thread is long gone, the devs won’t give a kitten about it and keep the GCD on shatters.

Not to mention other supposedly temp fixes that are still in game. Its becoming a pattern, clearly they put such issues on a lower priority list to be fixed when they get time to.

Grounder.7381:

3. fix bug and give cd for illusion 1st attack (-0.25S nerf) and buff SS to 3 might.
4. put back SS to 1 might and give shatter CD (-0,25S nerf).
….
is it just me or it seems like every patch gives us permanent nerf!! maybe with some icing that feels like a fix in disguise..

The SS trait is still stronger than it was before those two patches. It was a 5s stack of might before and now it’s a 10s stack of might.

Another patch, another mesmer nerf. Considering the amount of available builds for Mesmers to be competitive in sPvP, I find it… amusing.
Do people use anything else than Shatter Mesmer in sPvP?

The thing I miss most was having a reason to take Illusionary Persona on a condition mesmer. Usually I’d want my clones to stay alive to proc conditions, but the high might stacks justified using shatters (especially Cry of Frustration) at regular intervals rather than just spam creation and never shatter.

It was nice being able to have a choice of what to do with my illusions once they actually summoned (illusion summoning nerf is STILL annoying to deal with), but I guess mesmers just aren’t allowed to have choices.

Here’s to hoping that they buff some of the very useless traits we have instead of nerfing bunker build time anything mesmers use in sPvP.

Okay I’m really confused. Why does the nerf to Shattered Strength lower our ability to tag mobs in PvE and get the loot/credit from events? All I saw was mention of Greatsword, and I’m not sure how the two correlate.

Ramiah.5648:

Okay I’m really confused. Why does the nerf to Shattered Strength lower our ability to tag mobs in PvE and get the loot/credit from events? All I saw was mention of Greatsword, and I’m not sure how the two correlate.

Not exactly sure of the situation, but:

Might = Higher damage
Popular events = Mobs die very quickly
Higher damage = Better chance of dealing enough damage to a mob in order to receive loot/credit

Also, Greatsword = Event weapon of choice

I wish anet fix the LOS problem with mesmer.Getting obstruction constantly when seiging walls when hostiles can clearly be seen

ReginaBuenaobra.6953:

I’m just including the link to the post from Jon Peters that Laika quoted above, so people can see the context:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/25-Cooldown-on-Shatters/first#post1142800
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/25-Cooldown-on-Shatters/first#post1142946

Can you guys address some of the bugs with our traits instead of screwing with our heads with buffs that are “too much” then you just take the whole buff away instead of reducing the number a little

ReginaBuenaobra.6953:

I’m just including the link to the post from Jon Peters that Laika quoted above, so people can see the context:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/25-Cooldown-on-Shatters/first#post1142800
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/25-Cooldown-on-Shatters/first#post1142946

Understandable, bugs can be iffy to fix, regardless how we see them and think we can fix them. I appreciate all the work you do, the small .25 doesn’t really impact my game play and I don’t notice the CD unless I take a gander at the bar and see it. To others, it’s the end of the world, but what else is new, we’ve had like five apocalypses occur last year.

Bezerker seems to be taking a very long time to actually attack, 2-3 seconds. Is that supposed to be happening?

I havent noticed it taking that long… All my phants usually attack right after summoning

Metahari.1286:

Bezerker seems to be taking a very long time to actually attack, 2-3 seconds. Is that supposed to be happening?

I have not REALLY noticed any increase on the delay before attacking,
But I have noticed berserker getting killed before it attacks a lot more frequently since this patch came out, but it must just be dumb luck, the delay doesn’t seem longer

Anyone else still notice or care that even with Shattered Strength nerfed, that the game mechanics can trick the damage Mind Wrack is intended to do (since the minor trait had actually nothing to do with the real shatter “bug”).

Gaiawolf.8261:

Galrukh.6532:

Its a fine fix and something we all knew was gonna happen, so dont feel so violated.

WHAT!?

NOBODY thought a global CD was gonna happen! They don’t exist in this game for a reason. And it’s not a direct fix, anyway. It’s a band aid fix that nerfs another, valid tactic we use that didn’t even involve the bug/exploit.

Global CDs existed in GW2 before this fix. Specifically, Elementalist attunement changes (which from a template standpoint are the direct equivalent to Mesmer’s shatters) have global cooldowns. So to say that they don’t exist in the game is demonstrably false.

Vexien.4790:

Ramiah.5648:

Okay I’m really confused. Why does the nerf to Shattered Strength lower our ability to tag mobs in PvE and get the loot/credit from events? All I saw was mention of Greatsword, and I’m not sure how the two correlate.

Not exactly sure of the situation, but:

Might = Higher damage
Popular events = Mobs die very quickly
Higher damage = Better chance of dealing enough damage to a mob in order to receive loot/credit

Also, Greatsword = Event weapon of choice

I find that one gets much better returns on events with a MH sword + iPersona. Once you know the mob patterns and timing, just be sure to be in the right place, then hit your shatters and swing 1 while moving through the cluster of mobs. You should tag many things and you don’t need extra clones or might or anything.

Syeria.4812:

Gaiawolf.8261:

Galrukh.6532:

Its a fine fix and something we all knew was gonna happen, so dont feel so violated.

WHAT!?

NOBODY thought a global CD was gonna happen! They don’t exist in this game for a reason. And it’s not a direct fix, anyway. It’s a band aid fix that nerfs another, valid tactic we use that didn’t even involve the bug/exploit.

Global CDs existed in GW2 before this fix. Specifically, Elementalist attunement changes (which from a template standpoint are the direct equivalent to Mesmer’s shatters) have global cooldowns. So to say that they don’t exist in the game is demonstrably false.

Attunement changes are weapon swaps, not skills. Mesmers are the only ones who have a gcd on skill use.

The gcd isn’t the real issue though, the might reduction which leads to no decent tagging in DEs is the main problem.

Rainu.6871:

Attunement changes are weapon swaps, not skills. Mesmers are the only ones who have a gcd on skill use.

The gcd isn’t the real issue though, the might reduction which leads to no decent tagging in DEs is the main problem.

Attunement changes are skills when traited. For example, water attunement is a good aoe healing skill for a bunker (or even any) ele.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Rainu.6871:

Attunement changes are weapon swaps, not skills. Mesmers are the only ones who have a gcd on skill use.

The gcd isn’t the real issue though, the might reduction which leads to no decent tagging in DEs is the main problem.

Attunement changes are skills when traited. For example, water attunement is a good aoe healing skill for a bunker (or even any) ele.

They are still weapon swaps, they just have an added effect similar to how for example rangers or warriors can trait to gain various boons on weapon swap.

I don’t really care about the nerf of the buff they gaves us in pvp we do a lot of damage but the 0.25 fix* makes me now to be able to react on a thief with using all my shatters 0.75 later.
Might be no problem for some with slow reactions but when i saw a thief coming i was ready to shatter him with F4 and F3 with 0 clones needed as illusionary persona triat shatter yourself so stoping his burst imediatly and could use F1 With Mirror images+Decoy.
Now i have to w8 that half second or more to do that and the thief needs like 1 sec to kill me as glass canon mesmer Basilisk+Steel+CnD combo and instant Backstab how many seconds he needs to do that? 1sec?
He just use a broken animation combo and do imediatly a 17k or more damage in 1 sec.
How to manage staying alive from that?
Yes you could with very good reflexes but know the game removes that for me it makes me 0.75 slower to react so it’s not a good fix.
I am just saying that it makes me react slower with no chance to react faster now.
Who ever saw me stream they know i am not a macro user but very high reflexes.
So i am pannished for that atm.
Mesmers are OP all know that and i was saying it all day and it is bad to say that he isn’t but we trade the armor and the survivalbility for that amount of damage as thief do and as glass canon warriors do.We can manage a lot with portal’s,stealth,teleports but we are glass canons a good burst with no cds on mesmer is death.
Hope they will fix fast the exploit with the shatter and remove the 0.25 fix they added.

I just talk about thief as example to see what this GCD is doing on high reflexes people.

mentalrage.6748:

I don’t really care about the nerf of the buff they gaves us in pvp we do a lot of damage but the 0.25 fix* makes me now to be able to react on a thief with using all my shatters 0.75 later.
Might be no problem for some with slow reactions but when i saw a thief coming i was ready to shatter him with F4 and F3 with 0 clones needed as illusionary persona triat shatter yourself so stoping his burst imediatly and could use F1 With Mirror images+Decoy.
Now i have to w8 that half second or more to do that and the thief needs like 1 sec to kill me as glass canon mesmer Basilisk+Steel+CnD combo and instant Backstab how many seconds he needs to do that? 1sec?
He just use a broken animation combo and do imediatly a 17k or more damage in 1 sec.
How to manage staying alive from that?
Yes you could with very good reflexes but know the game removes that for me it makes me 0.75 slower to react so it’s not a good fix.
I am just saying that it makes me react slower with no chance to react faster now.
Who ever saw me stream they know i am not a macro user but very high reflexes.
So i am pannished for that atm.
Mesmers are OP all know that and i was saying it all day and it is bad to say that he isn’t but we trade the armor and the survivalbility for that amount of damage as thief do and as glass canon warriors do.We can manage a lot with portal’s,stealth,teleports but we are glass canons a good burst with no cds on mesmer is death.
Hope they will fix fast the exploit with the shatter and remove the 0.25 fix they added.

I just talk about thief as example to see what this GCD is doing on high reflexes people.

Sorry but your argument doesnt make sense to me…

1. Assuming it’s a 1 on 1, you shouldn’t be using F3 and F4 at the same time against a thief – that’s just silly :p
2. “Thief can do 17k damage in 1s, how to survive?” has nothing to do with the 0.25s GCD if you time your F4 or F3.
3. Hitting mirror images + decoy + shatter would probably take you 0.25s
4. If a thief got you by surprise just after you used another shatter skill, the average human reaction time is 0.2s + internet delay + time for you to move your fingers would be roughly 0.25s

The only problem I see with this is if you’re against multiple players e.g. you know 100% you’re gonna die if you dont pop F4 cos the enemy team is focusing on you but at the same time you want to daze another enemy who’s about to stomp your team mate. In this case, the 0.25s would be very crucial and there’s been plenty of times where 0.25s was all that was needed to rez or stomp someone – but it’s temporary and it’s not so bad so live with it

FLIMP.8172:

Maybe for you kind of playstyle doesn’t make sense but for mine and my shattering combos (F3 gives 5 stucks of vurnability) on many situations makes a lot of sense that (I will write it simpler) want to do 3 shatter combo on someone i can’t and i have to w8 that .50 sec i don;t need to explain my shatter combos or how to do it or when i just said that to have cd on them is bad for people with good reflexes.
I played GW1 believe me i know how to deal with everything they nerf or fix but no need to say it’s nice way to fix a bug…
Btw i am talking about SPvP not WvW everything is different there for most classes than SPvP.

Well Just logged on yesterday after the nerf and for me this nerf is really irritating as I spend a lot of my time running WvW with my guild and that dumb GCD is a pain when fighting multiple opponents. Not sure about everyone else but for me it was irritating me more and more as time went on, not to say that it is completely game breaking but for players with fast reflexes like me having to wait for that GCD to run out feels like a lifetime when you are tryin to string shatter combos

New bug?

Shattered Strength is not gaining benefits from Illusionary Persona, while traits such as Rending Shatter do. Can anyone confirm whether SS was gaining the fourth charge before or not? It currently does not count Illusionary Persona as an Illusion Shatter, thus the overall nerf to Might gain is larger than the patch note states.

etiolate.9185:

New bug?

Shattered Strength is not gaining benefits from Illusionary Persona, while traits such as Rending Shatter do. Can anyone confirm whether SS was gaining the fourth charge before or not? It currently does not count Illusionary Persona as an Illusion Shatter, thus the overall nerf to Might gain is larger than the patch note states.

etiolate.9185:

Shattered Strength is not gaining benefits from Illusionary Persona

Not a bug, but cause it say shattered clones, and your character is not a clone, that’s why I think you only get 3x might for shattering 3+self

Advent.1387:

Well Just logged on yesterday after the nerf and for me this nerf is really irritating as I spend a lot of my time running WvW with my guild and that dumb GCD is a pain when fighting multiple opponents. Not sure about everyone else but for me it was irritating me more and more as time went on, not to say that it is completely game breaking but for players with fast reflexes like me having to wait for that GCD to run out feels like a lifetime when you are tryin to string shatter combos

Yes it is a bit annoying, but I have a feeling I was able to make a shatter#1 and #2 at same time today, got a feeling of that. Cannot say for sure, cause I was 6x confusion after me making shatter #1, or that I was 4 conf from shatter #1 and then +2 for shatter #2

UnknownFreak.2805:

etiolate.9185:

New bug?

Shattered Strength is not gaining benefits from Illusionary Persona, while traits such as Rending Shatter do. Can anyone confirm whether SS was gaining the fourth charge before or not? It currently does not count Illusionary Persona as an Illusion Shatter, thus the overall nerf to Might gain is larger than the patch note states.

etiolate.9185:

Shattered Strength is not gaining benefits from Illusionary Persona

Not a bug, but cause it say shattered clones, and your character is not a clone, that’s why I think you only get 3x might for shattering 3+self

Advent.1387:

Well Just logged on yesterday after the nerf and for me this nerf is really irritating as I spend a lot of my time running WvW with my guild and that dumb GCD is a pain when fighting multiple opponents. Not sure about everyone else but for me it was irritating me more and more as time went on, not to say that it is completely game breaking but for players with fast reflexes like me having to wait for that GCD to run out feels like a lifetime when you are tryin to string shatter combos

Yes it is a bit annoying, but I have a feeling I was able to make a shatter#1 and #2 at same time today, got a feeling of that. Cannot say for sure, cause I was 6x confusion after me making shatter #1, or that I was 4 conf from shatter #1 and then +2 for shatter #2

I thought about that, but Rending Shatter has the same wording kittentered Strength but does gain benefit from IP.

“Rending Shatter Shattering illusions causes vulnerability for 8 seconds to nearby foes.”

“Shattered Strength Shattering illusions grants you 1 stack of might per illusion (10 seconds).”

The devs have done better lately with trying to establish balance in the game, but there is still a strong element of a pendulum effect that causes players to doubt their ability to maintain long-term consistency.

I dislike it. It’s not hugely debilitating, but frankly, if I have to slot 25 points into a traitline for Shattered Strength, at least make it 2 might stacks, as opposed to the 1 it is now.

How can you talk about balance when other classes are able to quickly and easily build might stacks which last considerably longer than 10 seconds?

Frankly, I’d wish Anet stopped listening to whiners and QQers and spent more time actually fixing bugs. Instead of constant nerfs(not including thieves and warriors, because supposedly, they’re ‘balanced’), why don’t you take the approach of buffing classes in certain areas so that they are ‘on par’ with the other classes?

Just stop nerfing mesmers please. It’s like you’re not listening to us at all. You spend far too much time apparently taking into account people who whine. Yes, SS was overpowered pre-patch but at least make the trait worthwhile considering how far into the traitline it is.

Rant over.

etiolate.9185:

New bug?

Shattered Strength is not gaining benefits from Illusionary Persona, while traits such as Rending Shatter do. Can anyone confirm whether SS was gaining the fourth charge before or not? It currently does not count Illusionary Persona as an Illusion Shatter, thus the overall nerf to Might gain is larger than the patch note states.

Illusionary Persona didn’t trigger might stacks. It had to be illusions shattered

I’m glad to see that the GCD fix to shatters was temporary. It is quite vital to my game play with Illusionary Persona…

MysticHLE.7160:

I’m glad to see that the GCD fix to shatters was temporary. It is quite vital to my game play with Illusionary Persona…

Anet has promised it is a temporary fix, so expect it to be nerfed further fixed in a few months. Or maybe a year.