Time Catches Up - Nerf for PvP
You’re not supposed to outrun the shatter. You’re supposed to dodge through it to pop the illusions. That has been the correct way to counter shatters since the day the game launched. Please try learning how to play properly before begging for nerfs.
That’s the thing. You dodge shatter number one. You take Scepter 3. You dodge shatter two. Then three. Then you get hit from torment from scepter 2. Then you get inmobilized, shattered, recovering.
Eventually you run out of dodges and these illusions keep harassing you because you can’t outrun them. With chronophantasma and illusionary reversion this is pretty ridiculous.
Swiftness isn’t too bad honestly, as it actually allows counterplay. Your typical condi mesmer has a countless stream of shatters at your doorstep. This is coming from someone who’s extensively played Sword/Torch + Scepter/Shield condi mes. I feel bad for people I duel =/
That’s the thing. You dodge shatter number one. You take Scepter 3. You dodge shatter two. Then three. Then you get hit from torment from scepter 2. Then you get inmobilized, shattered, recovering.
Eventually you run out of dodges and these illusions keep harassing you because you can’t outrun them. With chronophantasma and illusionary reversion this is pretty ridiculous.
Swiftness isn’t too bad honestly, as it actually allows counterplay. Your typical condi mesmer has a countless stream of shatters at your doorstep. This is coming from someone who’s extensively played Sword/Torch + Scepter/Shield condi mes. I feel bad for people I duel =/
And exactly how many other classes are you counter playing in the exact same way? Maybe Necromancer and Engineer by not fighting in their pet range.
If you allow a mesmer to get up 3-4 sets of illusions and phantasms without applying pressure and/or focusing some of his illusions and phantasms if need be, you deserve to die.
The entire scepter rotation mentioned can be summed up by:“You didn’t bring condi cleanse.”
That’s the thing. You dodge shatter number one. You take Scepter 3. You dodge shatter two. Then three. Then you get hit from torment from scepter 2. Then you get inmobilized, shattered, recovering.
Eventually you run out of dodges and these illusions keep harassing you because you can’t outrun them. With chronophantasma and illusionary reversion this is pretty ridiculous.
Swiftness isn’t too bad honestly, as it actually allows counterplay. Your typical condi mesmer has a countless stream of shatters at your doorstep. This is coming from someone who’s extensively played Sword/Torch + Scepter/Shield condi mes. I feel bad for people I duel =/
You only have two dodges to use against any class.
The only issue remaining is you can dodge the shatter and due to the changes Anet made still get hit.
I think swiftness to our illusions when we shatter should be baseline honestly. But as for time catches up I think its fine, its the endless illusion spam that we have access to through the chronomancer line that is the root of your complaint.
The only issue remaining is you can dodge the shatter and due to the changes Anet made still get hit.
Iirc that’s only Daredevil with the increased dodge range. Everyone else can still do it fine.
One class hits a button and does an immediate action
The Mesmer hits a button that creates a resource(clone) then they have to hit another button to use that resource. Then that resource has to run on foot and through the terrain all the way to the target. They can even be destroyed before they reach their intended target.
When a ranger shoots an arrow its an instant action and it flies through the air ignoring the ground till it hits its target. I don’t see anyone saying they should outrun arrows, spells, or bullets yet for some reason they want to outrun mesmer attacks. If anything clones should be buffed baseline swiftness or even shatter where they stand to toss the broken shards at you as fast any projectile and just as indestructible.
It’s impossible to outrun the shatter at its current state.
that’s-the-point.jpg
I mean seriously, what are you expecting when you read the trait? What do you think the use case is?
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
The only class I’ve seen that was able to out condi-cleanse a condi mes was Ele with DS + Auramancer, and in some cases Guardian.
Mesmers have neat condi cleansing so against Necromancers they have 0 issues. The thing about Mesmers is that they constantly apply huge stacks of confusion and torment coupled with doom and in some cases bleed from geomancy, as well as vuln, immob, and cripple.
The only class I’ve seen that was able to out condi-cleanse a condi mes was Ele with DS + Auramancer, and in some cases Guardian.
Mesmers have neat condi cleansing so against Necromancers they have 0 issues. The thing about Mesmers is that they constantly apply huge stacks of confusion and torment coupled with doom and in some cases bleed from geomancy, as well as vuln, immob, and cripple.
Careful there, you are swaying over into the area of a class that can do everything at once all the time.
Yes, mesmer have
- nice condi cleanse, if traited and sloted,
- and they have nice conditions, if traited and geared for
- and they have huge stacks of confusion, if traited and equiped
- and they have nice burst skill, if traited and equiped
- and they have lots of survivability and life, if geared for
- etc.
No one has to out-condi cleanse another class. It’s sufficient to cleanse to an amount enough to survive the other classes burst and give yourself enough time to apply your own burst. If you expect to stand there and infiniately take a beating without retaliating, yeah that’s not going to work.
One class hits a button and does an immediate action
The Mesmer hits a button that creates a resource(clone) then they have to hit another button to use that resource. Then that resource has to run on foot and through the terrain all the way to the target. They can even be destroyed before they reach their intended target.
When a ranger shoots an arrow its an instant action and it flies through the air ignoring the ground till it hits its target. I don’t see anyone saying they should outrun arrows, spells, or bullets yet for some reason they want to outrun mesmer attacks. If anything clones should be buffed baseline swiftness or even shatter where they stand to toss the broken shards at you as fast any projectile and just as indestructible.
Doam put in words exactly what I was getting at with my question which other class you expect to outrun as counter measure.
Mesmer Illusions are a ressource. This ressource can be a boon or disadvantage. If you let the mesmer build up his ressource over and over, you are essentially giving him an advantage both offensively as well as defensively.
Here my question, have you ever tried killing off a mesmer phantasms/illusions until they are on cooldown?
I’m not saying mesmer is weak 1v1, simply in my experience mesmer is one of those classes where people have a very hard time to counter play (even when mesmers were absolute trash tier) because they don’t understand what they face.
Also sorry but I have to laugh at your mesmer versus necromancer comment. There is a reason why condi necro is one of the god roaming classes (granted mesmer is strong too). Have you ever heard of https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague_Signet ? I’m sure your uber mesmer will apply all his conditions, clear all the necromancers conditions, clear all his own conditions again while staying inivisible, immun and super speeded at all time while killing the necromancer through his normal and death shroud lifebar.
The only class I’ve seen that was able to out condi-cleanse a condi mes was Ele with DS + Auramancer, and in some cases Guardian.
Mesmers have neat condi cleansing so against Necromancers they have 0 issues. The thing about Mesmers is that they constantly apply huge stacks of confusion and torment coupled with doom and in some cases bleed from geomancy, as well as vuln, immob, and cripple.
Mesmers can trait for amazing condi cleanse, this is true. But they have to give up almost all offensive pressure to have top tier condi cleanse. Which is a completely fair tradeoff. Though they have absolutely nothing on berserker, I don’t know how you can talk about condi cleanse and not include the berserkers, with 3 condis cleansed every 3 seconds when traited while in berserk mode, on top of their resistance on their heal if they need it.
The only issue remaining is you can dodge the shatter and due to the changes Anet made still get hit.
Iirc that’s only Daredevil with the increased dodge range. Everyone else can still do it fine.
Nope regularly do it to everyone depending angle of shatter
For all meta specs, only necro and rev have problem 1v1 a mesmser.
For other specs, it is all about getting good yourself.
Power Warrior/DH/Staff DDs counter mesmer easily due to their ability to cleave out clones.
Druid has enough dodges/cleanse to outsustain a mesmer but it can be a stalemate.
Scrapper also has enough tools to outsustain mesmer as long as the cap is important in the fight(so mesmer can’t kite forever).
A skilled DP thief also has chance to take out a mesmer. It can be challenging but still very doable.
I don’t think I’ve had any increased problems since superspeed became a choice of traits for illusions. Most Mesmers, will likely try to produce illusions and then shatter them right on top of you anyway, so the speed they move is pretty irrelevant.
If you are in a scenario where super speed illusions are running at you from a distance you can simply dodge forward through them like you would any ranged attack.
Gandara
Mesmers have neat condi cleansing so against Necromancers they have 0 issues. The thing about Mesmers is that they constantly apply huge stacks of confusion and torment coupled with doom and in some cases bleed from geomancy, as well as vuln, immob, and cripple.
And?
It’s not like anyone else can’t kill you in 1-2 seconds flat in this game.
Overall combat balance is so borked, it feels so pointless to complain about how my Mesmer might be too strong in 1v1 (lol at the whole concept, tbh, this is a class-based MMO, what are you expecting?) or how my Revenant might be too weak at ~everything.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
So a question to any hipsters out there running baseline mesmer. How frustrating is it to shatter and people just carry on doing everything they do and your clones never reach the target?
At the moment either swiftness access should be massively reduced or swiftness should be baseline for shatters as they simply do not hit if they aren’t detonated directly on the target.
As for the OP your problem isn’t the superspeed your problem is that you aren’t denying the shield phantasms most likely. Without shield phantasms mesmer runs out of clones a lot faster and so shatters less often giving you less to dodge. Use an unblockable blind/CC or dodge the summon of the phantasm and try not to hit the block of the shield to trigger a second use.
(edited by apharma.3741)
An argument could be made for reducing swiftness uptime, but I do think that shatters should give your illusions swiftness as a baseline aspect of shattering.