Time to rebalance the mesmer
I’ve heard that the lack of Confusion runes was something that was supposed to be fixed (so they acknowledged that it’s not intentional), but it doesn’t seem as though anyone’s ever gotten around to it.
I’ve heard that the lack of Confusion runes was something that was supposed to be fixed (so they acknowledged that it’s not intentional), but it doesn’t seem as though anyone’s ever gotten around to it.
People at ArenaNet do a very good job at “getting around to it.” Remember the map completion star. It took months for that very significant fix. And even now, there’s a thread concerning a nerf to the iBersker that occurred months ago. I like what the OP is proposing. I just don’t think the devs will get around to reworking the traits when it takes several month to put stars above our clones’ heads to conceal the real Mesmer.
Guild: Commanders of the Reborn Empire Nation [CORE]
Level 80 Professions: Mesmer, Warrior, Thief
Confusion on auto attack sounds OP. Maybe one stack on the last attack that conjures a clone, but certainly not any more.
I kinda of agree with the iMage, but at the same time the problem with iMage is that it’s really unreliable and misses far too often, rather than the condition it applies being bad. It would still suck even if it did do burning.
“Dear ANet, nerf Paper, Scissors is fine. Sincerely, Rock”
Elysaurus | Warrior | [LOL] | League of the Legendary | Gandara (EU)
One stack of Confusion for 3s on Ether Clones sounds good. I think Phantasmal Mage should continue inflicting Confusion, it just needs to be able to double-tap enemies.
One stack of Confusion for 3s on Ether Clones sounds good. I think Phantasmal Mage should continue inflicting Confusion, it just needs to be able to double-tap enemies.
I think having it do that would really help in mesmers determining positioning with the torch…. Giving the iMage the potential to inflict 6 stacks of confusion would certainly help it out. (Kind of like how engis static shot can bounce between enemies inflicting 4 stacks of confusion instead of 2)
i think in order to rebalance what is lost either reajust confusion dmg(maybe instead of the 50 percent 20-30 percent) or adjust for example that glamskills inflict some burning or bleeding instead of confusion or just something to fix the double nerf we got. blinding befuddlement would already nerf glam builds and so confusion didnt need to be nerfed that much anyways if it needed it.
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
if they do rebalance it and they will, it’ll be in over a year.
mesmer is fine as it is now. I’m stacking 8 stacks confusion on ppl just to see that they can handle the condition with spamming skills and don’t even worry about the conditions. that’s what most of these people wanted. smashing buttons without thinking. Seems like the mesmer is balanced now, at least for condition builds :>
They should nerf Confusion tbh. Just now I took 180 damage every time I used a skill, that was hardly fair. I mean, I had to use my healing skill! Can you imagine that?
They should nerf Confusion tbh. Just now I took 180 damage every time I used a skill, that was hardly fair. I mean, I had to use my healing skill! Can you imagine that?
No can’t even imagine that. This is so crazy that to even imagine it you gotta experience it at least once.
After this patch i went confusion again, just to try it out and see what really changed.
With my build i can easily stack 15, even 20 confusion in a burst. (iDuelist in a field, pistol 5, CoF, scepter 3 and so on..)
I think confusion is not balanced yet, it does way to much damage. There is this warrior who has a ton of confusion on him and he finally gets in melee range with me. Yeah you know what he did..hundred blades, let’s kick this mesmer out of my control point. And he died screaming.
So ANET plz nerf confusion, ppl without brain still die of it, it’s not yet balanced..
(or do i have to tell of that tournament where this shortbow ranger pops quickness while with 10+ confusion AND in a feedback bubble? nerf feedback too if you please..it’s OP)
Ok, seriously..confusion (same for retaliation i think) will always be a source of QQ, no matter how they nerf it. There is a lot of people out there who has no idea on how to play pvp. They have no cond removal, they don’t even look at conditions on them.
Against skilled people confusion is nothing more that a CC, if you die of it well it’s simply your problem..not a lack of balance but a lack of brain instead
They should nerf Confusion tbh. Just now I took 180 damage every time I used a skill, that was hardly fair. I mean, I had to use my healing skill! Can you imagine that?
yeah actually the new bleeding thing hit a little harder for 200-400 omg anet should nerf that to 50 ! confusion though is still causing tooo much dmg you are right…maybe it should heal the enemy that would be truly confusing!
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
I think the problem is partially that Confusion is supposed to be a damage condition like Bleeding and Burning. Yet it doesn’t do it’s damage on it’s own. That’s just begging for whining because of the indirect nature.
OTOH, just making it “tick” would remove what makes it Confusion in the first place.
I wonder if Confusion would be easier to balance if it both had tick damage and also dealt damage upon enemy skill use.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
I wonder if Confusion would be easier to balance if it both had tick damage and also dealt damage upon enemy skill use.
That’s not confusion. That’s not the mesmer.
Mesmer was my favorite class in gw1 and i played with empathy and that other one which dealt damage upon casting, can’t remember now..return of flame or something like that..
In gw1, you had to stop immediately else you die. And that was fine..
My gw1 mesmer had NO direct damage skills, it was all about counter (monks, mainly). Confusion tries to do the same. Changing it would be changing the mesmer..
(My bro just said, seeing me reply to this: “the main problem is that a lot of people here doesn’t come from gw1 but from WoW, and therefor they are complete noobs that can’t play w/o their bladestorm”..so much truth in that..confusion is a mechanic new to the people who didn’t play gw1 but changing it is not the answer..they’ll get use to it, or die in the attemp)
That’s not confusion. That’s not the mesmer.
Sure it is. It would still kill someone who attacked a whole bunch but you’d have a guaranteed amount of base condition damage. I’m suggesting it as a way to moderate between ideal circumstances and worst-case scenarios.
Mesmer was my favorite class in gw1 and i played with empathy and that other one which dealt damage upon casting, can’t remember now..return of flame or something like that..
In gw1, you had to stop immediately else you die. And that was fine..
My gw1 mesmer had NO direct damage skills, it was all about counter (monks, mainly).
Well that’s not true. Though they were really good at stacking Hexes and interrupting, they had plenty of other options as well. Mesmers had lots of direct damage, Illusory Weapon builds being a prime example. I remember this one time I managed to convince my guild to try a GvG team featuring 6 Energy Surge Mesmers. It was a gimmick team and required an unreasonable amount of coordination, but we managed to focus our fire just right once or twice, 100-0ing almost everyone on the enemy team simultaneously, completely with direct damage.
But let’s talk direct-damage hexes. Mesmers had Conjure Phantasm, Conjure Nightmare, Illusion of Pain (although they were healed at the end), Illusion of Remorse, Migraine, Overload, Phantom Pain, Recurring Insecurity, and Shrinking Armor, to name a few. If you wanted to play a Mesmer who simply hit the degen cap, you could do so fairly easily.
I played GW1 since the beta. I played every profession backwards and forwards. I’ve never even played WoW. Moving a little bit of Confusion’s damage into a damage over time effect would not dramatically remove the Mesmer from its roots.
Honestly, the lack of serious interrupts differentiates GW2 Mesmers from their GW1 incarnation far more than anything you could do to Confusion would. GW1 Mesmers were mostly about lockdown, about preventing your opponent from acting (and punishing them when they did act). GW2 Mesmers are mostly about damage avoidance, combat mobility, and stacking a bunch of small pieces of damage into as small a time frame as possible, though like every GW2 profession they can be played any number of ways. What’s consistent is the mind-games, and a little bit of DOT on Confusion wouldn’t change that at all.
(And you’re thinking of Backfire, I think. That thing hit like a truck if your opponent didn’t immediately notice and pop some hex removal.)
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
The damage shouldn’t scale with the number of stacks, it should be a fixed amount of damage (depending on condition damage of course) but with one stack wearing off on each skill use. That wouldn’t make you kill yourself because you just missed a burst of confusion stacks, but it would keep the nature of confusion. See https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Confusion-1/first.
I still think confusion helps keep us as GW2s lockdown class. You have to specifically build into it. What I dont like is them catering to players that gripe about when they get killed by it. It forces us more into a direct burst role. If they really wanna help us become the interrupt lockdown monsters we once were. Add some buffs to confusion. Stacking duration and intensity would be cool like 1s for each stack. That way confusion builds can keep direct pressure on opponents. Next remove the freaking cooldown on readied mantra of distraction.
“But let’s talk direct-damage hexes. Mesmers had Conjure Phantasm, Conjure Nightmare, Illusion of Pain (although they were healed at the end), Illusion of Remorse, Migraine, Overload, Phantom Pain, Recurring Insecurity, and Shrinking Armor, to name a few. If you wanted to play a Mesmer who simply hit the degen cap, you could do so fairly easily.”
Most of these are degen hexes, not direct damage ones. I played mesmer from 3 months after the original GW1 release. Mesmer was very rarely setup for direct damage (outside of e-denial) and most that did to it were mostly gimmick builds or speed nukers. You had those IW (pure gimmick), fragility (which had it’s moments), and later on Wastrel’s & VOR builds. I absolutely hated when they changed up Visions of regret to trigger on all skills. Originally it only effect adren skills (if I remember correctly) but when they made that change it completely dumbed down the profession. I just hope they don’t end up going down this kind of road (although it looks like they have already started by pushing us into mostly power/shatter builds).
Figrin the Healer (Guard), Angelic Renae (Mes), Death by Figrin (Thief)
That’s the road we are being pushed down… What’s worse is we have so many traits that deal with confusion to where if they nerf it at all past this patch it does affect all mesmers in some way whether we like it or not. However lets keep in mind that confusion for sPvP has always been the same… So maybe ANET needs to look at it’s numbers there and see about adding some buff to it. 10-15% damage increase. I think they intended it to be a burst skill so we would be hardpressed to get it to tick over time the way bleeding and poison do….
That’s the road we are being pushed down… What’s worse is we have so many traits that deal with confusion to where if they nerf it at all past this patch it does affect all mesmers in some way whether we like it or not. However lets keep in mind that confusion for sPvP has always been the same… So maybe ANET needs to look at it’s numbers there and see about adding some buff to it. 10-15% damage increase. I think they intended it to be a burst skill so we would be hardpressed to get it to tick over time the way bleeding and poison do….
I’ve said this before on some of the other boards, people are under the impression that, “Well, it doesn’t affect shatter” which isn’t true at all. A hit to confusion hits a lot of our weapons, mechanics and traits, regardless of how you’re built.
I still think confusion helps keep us as GW2s lockdown class. You have to specifically build into it. What I dont like is them catering to players that gripe about when they get killed by it. It forces us more into a direct burst role. If they really wanna help us become the interrupt lockdown monsters we once were. Add some buffs to confusion. Stacking duration and intensity would be cool like 1s for each stack. That way confusion builds can keep direct pressure on opponents. Next remove the freaking cooldown on readied mantra of distraction.
It would definitely be interesting to give Mesmers ways to empower their Confusion with extra effects, though you risk running into counterplay issues. It would have to be done with a deft touch.
Most of these are degen hexes, not direct damage ones.
You’re right, I was playing lose with my terminology. My point was, Conjure Phantasm was just damage over time. It didn’t require your opponent to act before it hurt them.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
I was playing a glam build today in wvw, didn’t feel useless at all. Before it was the obvious choice in wvw (at least vs zergs), with other stuff feeling like more specialized builds. Now it’s more in line with pvp, where it’s possibly worth it, possibly not. It’s still very versatile, still strips boons, causes blindness and does aoe damage / control to A LOT of people.
There are still very viable builds, and the mesmer is still very fun to play. Did they strike the right balance with confusion? I’m not sure…it’s really hard to tell that sort of thing quickly.
Also, others pointed out that confusion is just CC, and doesn’t really do dmg vs good players. This may be true…but then it’s either effectively healing/protecting your team by preventing them from attacking, or effectively damaging them by preventing them from healing / damage mitigating. Some builds can’t even dodge safely if they have confusion, because it procs several times. My point is just that stacking confusion is a powerful effect, whether it results in direct damage or not.
Unless Anet plans to rework Interrupts, our many Interrupt traits could possibly be reworked to work on Confusion activation instead. A new trait might even be “Interrupt foes when they trigger Confusion, 15s CD” or something.
I wonder if Confusion would be easier to balance if it both had tick damage and also dealt damage upon enemy skill use.
That’s not confusion. That’s not the mesmer.
Mesmer was my favorite class in gw1 and i played with empathy and that other one which dealt damage upon casting, can’t remember now..return of flame or something like that..
In gw1, you had to stop immediately else you die. And that was fine..
My gw1 mesmer had NO direct damage skills, it was all about counter (monks, mainly). Confusion tries to do the same. Changing it would be changing the mesmer..(My bro just said, seeing me reply to this: “the main problem is that a lot of people here doesn’t come from gw1 but from WoW, and therefor they are complete noobs that can’t play w/o their bladestorm”..so much truth in that..confusion is a mechanic new to the people who didn’t play gw1 but changing it is not the answer..they’ll get use to it, or die in the attemp)
omg so true gw1 mesmer was sooo epic but now in gw2 nobody wants to deal with anything that stops them from mashing buttons. That i though what a glam mesmer does..or did…we CHOOSE to not deal a lot of direct dmg, but punish the other players for mashing buttons. so if u look at it this way glam is not op like that…if we fail with our glam u can kill us easily plus we might down a lot of buttonmashers, but finishing them off takes a while. the 50 percent nerf takes the whole concept of a mesmer away….and it is kinda sad.
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
In gw1, you had to stop immediately else you die. And that was fine..
My gw1 mesmer had NO direct damage skills, it was all about counter (monks, mainly). Confusion tries to do the same. Changing it would be changing the mesmer..
The problem with that would be that given our multiple ways to apply Confusion, it’d turn us into an effective CCer in PvP. And well, there’s not supposed to be roles in GW2.
The absence of a holy trinity doesn’t necessarily mean that there are no roles at all. You can still spec for specific actions, but every class can - or should be able to, which is why the concept of making access to confusion very limited was a bit borked from the beginning.
What if confusion refreshed on proc….so if you cast through it, it sticks around, and the stacks get higher….but you can let it expire and no harm done. That way confusion would work as extended pressure and dillemmas, rather than just bursts that seem excessive. I dont think the damage nerf would bother people, if you could buff the potential duration this way.
Honestly I’d be happy if Mesmer is left alone. It’s in a good spot now. Just fix iZerker and Signet of Illusions and it’s perfect.
i played a staff / gsword confusionless condition spec in spvp all last night. it did really well. for right now im just using confusion as a background condition not the main foucs of the build. (i know 50% of spvp are uplvled 2s who dont know thier professions…. still fun killing them though)
This thread makes me laugh so hard. Its amazing that when you guys actually start seeing your class balanced you instantly think, gosh we suck now. Try playing a warrior or a thief and get back to me. The amount of entitled QQ makes me laugh so hard.
Your confusion was nerfed for a reason….it was unbalanced as crap….learn to adapt and move on. Geeez.
dont forget to be dramatic bazleel. i understand you are the 99% and hate the 1% because they have it too easy. saw something about it on tv.
Try playing a warrior or a thief and get back to me. The amount of entitled QQ makes me laugh so hard.
So you’d be ok with them removing all but the top WvW spec for say, a Thief? Because that’s ultimately the problem, if you have 4 diverse playstyles, and you nerf one hard, you have 3, not 4 of which one is now weaker. That’s not how players in competitive games work.
It’s not a problem of power, but of sheer build diversity. I want more possible ways to play WvW, not less.
(edited by Carighan.6758)
This thread makes me laugh so hard. Its amazing that when you guys actually start seeing your class balanced you instantly think, gosh we suck now. Try playing a warrior or a thief and get back to me. The amount of entitled QQ makes me laugh so hard.
Your confusion was nerfed for a reason….it was unbalanced as crap….learn to adapt and move on. Geeez.
erm rolled a thief , entered wvw with lvl 2, ran on the outside of the zerg and dowened people by spamming 2, rolled a warrior leveled up to 50, got a hold of hammer warrior fun, ran into zergs, hads always speed boosts and killed many people.the class got unbalanced as they took the only real condition we ever had and nerfed it to 50 percent. this affects a lot of builds, so we are loosing builds and all the invested gear.
let me give your permastealth heartseeker a staff instead of a dagger, how would that make u feel?
or a warrior can only use daggers?
so a mesmer should be able to have access to confusion that deals decent dmg like before.
glam mesmer chose to not deal much direct dmg in order to deal a lot of confusion dmg, which btw is avoidable by stopping to spam 1 or in your case 2 for heart seeker right?
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
This thread makes me laugh so hard. Its amazing that when you guys actually start seeing your class balanced you instantly think, gosh we suck now. Try playing a warrior or a thief and get back to me. The amount of entitled QQ makes me laugh so hard.
Your confusion was nerfed for a reason….it was unbalanced as crap….learn to adapt and move on. Geeez.
erm rolled a thief , entered wvw with lvl 2, ran on the outside of the zerg and dowened people by spamming 2, rolled a warrior leveled up to 50, got a hold of hammer warrior fun, ran into zergs, hads always speed boosts and killed many people.the class got unbalanced as they took the only real condition we ever had and nerfed it to 50 percent. this affects a lot of builds, so we are loosing builds and all the invested gear.
let me give your permastealth heartseeker a staff instead of a dagger, how would that make u feel?
or a warrior can only use daggers?
so a mesmer should be able to have access to confusion that deals decent dmg like before.
glam mesmer chose to not deal much direct dmg in order to deal a lot of confusion dmg, which btw is avoidable by stopping to spam 1 or in your case 2 for heart seeker right?
I love the heartseaker spam comment. Those theifs have zero skill in this game at all. They wouldn’t know real combat if it slapped them on the face. If you are implying that spamming 2 is a legit spec then you clearly have a lot to learn about what actual thief players do.
Well lets just say with the recent sword buffs thieves are doing quite well in sPvP. And with the blinding befuddlement nerf ANet has hurt yet ANOTHER Mesmer build… So they get a good kittening job award.
This thread makes me laugh so hard. Its amazing that when you guys actually start seeing your class balanced you instantly think, gosh we suck now. Try playing a warrior or a thief and get back to me. The amount of entitled QQ makes me laugh so hard.
Your confusion was nerfed for a reason….it was unbalanced as crap….learn to adapt and move on. Geeez.
erm rolled a thief , entered wvw with lvl 2, ran on the outside of the zerg and dowened people by spamming 2, rolled a warrior leveled up to 50, got a hold of hammer warrior fun, ran into zergs, hads always speed boosts and killed many people.the class got unbalanced as they took the only real condition we ever had and nerfed it to 50 percent. this affects a lot of builds, so we are loosing builds and all the invested gear.
let me give your permastealth heartseeker a staff instead of a dagger, how would that make u feel?
or a warrior can only use daggers?
so a mesmer should be able to have access to confusion that deals decent dmg like before.
glam mesmer chose to not deal much direct dmg in order to deal a lot of confusion dmg, which btw is avoidable by stopping to spam 1 or in your case 2 for heart seeker right?
I love the heartseaker spam comment. Those theifs have zero skill in this game at all. They wouldn’t know real combat if it slapped them on the face. If you are implying that spamming 2 is a legit spec then you clearly have a lot to learn about what actual thief players do.
yeah true the really good thieves i fought were not just spamming 2, they put up an awesome fight without permastealth or heartseeker and it felt chalenging and fun!
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
This thread makes me laugh so hard. Its amazing that when you guys actually start seeing your class balanced you instantly think, gosh we suck now. Try playing a warrior or a thief and get back to me. The amount of entitled QQ makes me laugh so hard.
Your confusion was nerfed for a reason….it was unbalanced as crap….learn to adapt and move on. Geeez.
erm rolled a thief , entered wvw with lvl 2, ran on the outside of the zerg and dowened people by spamming 2, rolled a warrior leveled up to 50, got a hold of hammer warrior fun, ran into zergs, hads always speed boosts and killed many people.the class got unbalanced as they took the only real condition we ever had and nerfed it to 50 percent. this affects a lot of builds, so we are loosing builds and all the invested gear.
let me give your permastealth heartseeker a staff instead of a dagger, how would that make u feel?
or a warrior can only use daggers?
so a mesmer should be able to have access to confusion that deals decent dmg like before.
glam mesmer chose to not deal much direct dmg in order to deal a lot of confusion dmg, which btw is avoidable by stopping to spam 1 or in your case 2 for heart seeker right?
I love the heartseaker spam comment. Those theifs have zero skill in this game at all. They wouldn’t know real combat if it slapped them on the face. If you are implying that spamming 2 is a legit spec then you clearly have a lot to learn about what actual thief players do.
yeah true the really good thieves i fought were not just spamming 2, they put up an awesome fight without permastealth or heartseeker and it felt chalenging and fun!
Thank you
This thread makes me laugh so hard. Its amazing that when you guys actually start seeing your class balanced you instantly think, gosh we suck now. Try playing a warrior or a thief and get back to me. The amount of entitled QQ makes me laugh so hard.
Your confusion was nerfed for a reason….it was unbalanced as crap….learn to adapt and move on. Geeez.
It wasn’t unbalanced at all imo… I can’t remember the last time I was killed by a confusion mes (talkin’ pre-nerf damage).
Eng needed the confusion nerf though imo… my eng gave up virtually nothing to have strong confusion alongside his other on demand conditions.
Mesmers on the other hand gave up a lot of damage/survival because of the required traits to make a confusion mesmer work.
I also agree they need to lay off of thieves though… and it’s for the same reason… too many noob QQ-ers.
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