Guild Wars 2

Ok so i started a mester..enjoying it a bit.

Now I know all classes have problems since i tried them all so i wont ask about the mesmer weekness..

However do you guy have any plans to make is so that the phantasm don’t disappear the second the enemy got killed..

I am finding it really annoying specially when fighting more than 1 enemy where I summon a phantasm only for it disappear and get wasted because my main target is dead.

This is especially frustrating during aoe situation where I summon phantasm warden or phantasm berserker ….This guys are made for AOE ..but you cant really use them for it..cuz they dissapear the second your main target dies…such a waste..

I mean they have long cast time..long cooldown…at least make them stay and do their job until the fight is done or until they die.

Another Suggestion is to simply give them a timer…like 1 min or something before they dissapear..

Thank you.

They have a short cast time and relatively short cooldowns.

I don’t know what you consider short cast time and short cooldowns…but i think they are long..

Anyway that’s not the main issue..

The issue is that they get wasted constantly in aoe situation cuz they dissapear the second your target dies…

Hell half the time they dont even manage to do their animation in aoe situation.

Chaos Storm has a long cooldown at ~25s.

iDuelist has a fast-ish cooldown at ~9s.

Mirror Blade has a really short cooldown at ~4.8s.

That aside: deal with it.

If you’re farming DEs, use a different approach. Phantasms are not the solution to all of your challenges in GW2.

It is a unique to the profession. If they remained, now they are basically pretty minions (of the necro). If they are permanent then they are humanoid pets (of ranger). If they are not tied to a baddie, but instead have a time duration then they are spirit weapons or elementals that look like you (of Guardian and Elementalist).

It fits with the lore that they disappear as well. Since they are illusions it stands to reason that if the target of the illusion is dead, the illusion would die too. It can be frustrating with quick mobs, but with boss battles they are awesome!

EasymodeX.4062:

Mirror Blade has a really short cooldown at ~4.8s.

How do you get 40% reduction when the traits for CD reduction doesn’t stack?

As for the OP, I used to think like that, but now I’m fine with how illusions works. (Though I wouldn’t mind slightly more HP on them Q_Q)

Anyway screw the cooldown or the cast time ..that is not the point.

Im not asking they they remain until they die…

Im asking they they remain until your out of combat…SEE THE DIFFERENCE.

That way you can actually use them for their intended purpose in AOE situation.

So your suggestion is to deal with it….when a certain combat mechanic doesn’t work well you make suggestion so it improves…YOU DONT JUST DEAL WITH IT.

How do you get 40% reduction when the traits for CD reduction doesn’t stack?

Because they do stack?

This is common knowledge.

EasymodeX.4062:

How do you get 40% reduction when the traits for CD reduction doesn’t stack?

Because they do stack?

This is common knowledge.

I’m bugged then, kitten ._.

hibernatex.2431:

Anyway screw the cooldown or the cast time ..that is not the point.

Im not asking they they remain until they die…

Im asking they they remain until your out of combat…SEE THE DIFFERENCE.

That way you can actually use them for their intended purpose in AOE situation.

So your suggestion is to deal with it….when a certain combat mechanic doesn’t work well you make suggestion so it improves…YOU DONT JUST DEAL WITH IT.

Wow, you seem very hostile towards anybody with a different view than yours. If you truly meant this as a suggestion then might I suggestion you post it in the “Suggestions” forums rather than here for discussion. I still hold to my original post as to my take on this topic.

The tooltips are incorrect. The cooldown traits stack for everything except for multi-part abilities (Sword3, Sword4, and I think Scepter2), which are bugged.

If you enable the cooldown indicator on your UI, and press the button, you’ll see the correct time remaining.

hibernatex.2431:

So your suggestion is to deal with it….when a certain combat mechanic doesn’t work well you make suggestion so it improves…YOU DONT JUST DEAL WITH IT.

Well, let’s see … no single combat mechanic is perfect for every combat situation in the entire game.

It’s kind of unfortunate that the most popular and easiest-to-use mechanic of the Mesmer class is subpar for DE farming with 45 of your closest friends, but that’s kind of how it is.

Perhaps you should try other buttons besides the phantasm summon?

Think of Phantasms are single target skills rather then empowered clones, with a chance to end early (they die) or echo themselves again later (They get the chance to use their skill a second time).
No other class gets a single target skill that can change targets (much less echo again later), so why should phantasms?

That said, I do support CLONES not Phantasms to switch targets when their targets die and be able to stay up out of combat. Those guys are more distractions and shatter fodder anyways, and its painful to have the defensive part of the Clones to die off in the middle of a mess of enemies because their target died but none of the others have yet. Especially for DEs and trying to get a Shatter in.

Well, no wonder I didn’t notice! Sword 3 is only reduced once, which is why I thought it didn’t stack. I hope they fix that soon, so I can use swap more often.

I didn’t knew Scepter 2 was bugged, as I barely use it. The tooltip updates(with Illusions 5), but the actual cd isn’t reduced.

MLieBennett has the right of it. I’d love it if the clones lasted until combat was finished as well. IMO Phantasms should be traitable for it, but not without committing to that trait line. At least have them try to switch targets within their range. They can always crumble if there isn’t anything.

Also who blithely just bends over and “deals with it”? That’s a terrible philosophy. All though, if one is to be technical, the OP is in fact dealing with it by doing the sensible thing and using what little power he has to try and achieve his goal. Dealing with something by merely accepting things as they are isn’t dealing with it.

Hey guys, when I press my “Spatial Surge” attack, I can’t kill everything in a DE. Can the devs comment on the suggestion to make Spatial Surge bounce to multiple targets? I want to use it with my condition damage build, so maybe we could add a bleed and burn to it?

Also, on my last personal story mission, a mob healed himself and I died. So I think it should poison as well. Also, when the Spatial Surge arc makes a circle returning to me, it should grant me Fury and Aegis. Swiftness would also help me run around to tag mobs as well, so if you wouldn’t mind adding that as well, that would be great.

I know there may be other abilities that can help me out in those situations, but I would rather use my 1 button to do everything in the game. It looks really cool with the laser shooting out!

By the way, I think it would be cool to get some other utility skills like “NUKE_ALL_DE” and “IWIN”. Those might be kind of powerful though, so we could put them on a 20s cooldown or something.

What do you think?

EasymodeX.4062:

Hey guys, when I press my “Spatial Surge” attack, I can’t kill everything in a DE. Can the devs comment on the suggestion to make Spatial Surge bounce to multiple targets? I want to use it with my condition damage build, so maybe we could add a bleed and burn to it?

Also, on my last personal story mission, a mob healed himself and I died. So I think it should poison as well. Also, when the Spatial Surge arc makes a circle returning to me, it should grant me Fury and Aegis. Swiftness would also help me run around to tag mobs as well, so if you wouldn’t mind adding that as well, that would be great.

I know there may be other abilities that can help me out in those situations, but I would rather use my 1 button to do everything in the game. It looks really cool with the laser shooting out!

By the way, I think it would be cool to get some other utility skills like “NUKE_ALL_DE” and “IWIN”. Those might be kind of powerful though, so we could put them on a 20s cooldown or something.

What do you think?

Pretty much what I’ve been thinking about after reading your post: http://s1.hubimg.com/u/785972_f520.jpg

Agree this is annoying. I suspect its because the phantom is all in the enemies mind, so dead enemy = no more phantom.

I’ve not played the class long enough to know if we get this power later – but what would be a good change (or upgrade) is if your illusions impact everyone in an area so all see them – then you can justify the thing staying up.

The greatest secret of the Mesmer is

that phantasms are DoTs masquerading as summons

hibernatex.2431:

So your suggestion is to deal with it….when a certain combat mechanic doesn’t work well you make suggestion so it improves…YOU DONT JUST DEAL WITH IT.

I can tell you the part of the combat mechanic which doesn’t work:
That they exist. Because apparently, people immediately get the “Play it as a pet class so you can /afk in combat”-vibe. Remove Phantasms in their current form, give them 20s max durations. There, problem resolved.

Erm, if you feel like your illusions disappear to fast grab Deceptive Evasion which creates a clone every time you dodge (Dueling trait line) and put some points in Illusions to get the shortened recharge. Also put some points into Chaos for shorter staff skill recharge. Throw Mirror Images into your build and voila – you’ll never run out of illusions.

If you add Debilitating Dissipation (clones apply a random condition to nearby foes when they are killed) you also get some use out of them dying when you don’t want to use a shatter just yet.

I often – depending on the situation, of course – shatter my illusions when my illusion summoning skills have recharged so I get the extra damage of Mind Wrack in there. Also, as soon as the first illusion shatters (I find they seldomly shatter at the exact same time) I create the next so I hardly ever have no illusions active.

Granted, you don’t have the same illusions active throughout one fight, but then again, why would you?

I just have to reply to this:

“That way you can actually use them for their intended purpose in AOE situation.”

Funny, why don’t you shatter them in AoE situations? Or pick a target that you think might live a bit longer? And if we’re talking “intended purpose” in AoE situations, the case could be made that their purpose is to be shattered (iWarden doesn’t necessarily support this, especially with Phantasmal Haste, but whatever).

“So your suggestion is to deal with it….when a certain combat mechanic doesn’t work well you make suggestion so it improves…YOU DONT JUST DEAL WITH IT.”

There is no need for improvement, so yeah, deal with it. Try to figure out what you can do with what you have. Just because a mechanic doesn’t work the way you want it to work doesn’t mean it’s broken and requires fixing.

Brief answer, probably not. The devs were not unaware of the fact illusions disappear when their target dies, it’s by design.

If you summon a phantasm on something about to die, shame on you. Next time switch targets to something with more health first. And remember illusions are half of our mechanic, shatter is the other half. When your target is at 30% it usually makes sense to shatter.

I know it “feels” wrong to have your illusions die when your target dies, but would you still feel this way if Mesmers had some unique condition instead of illusions? It would be the very same effect (when the target dies the condition expires). So as others have stated, just think of them as special conditions that only Mesmers can cast and it’s not such a bad pill to swallow.

In a way i like this system, sure its not the best, but i do have fun working down a target then dropping illusions on the next target. Big this i hear is mesmer dps has up time or you don’t get all the illusions out since the target dies, well if you are fighting a mob and he is going down summon your duelist to get a head start on the next guy.

You’ve got to not think of them as pets. They’re not pets, they just look like pets; they’re more like like triggered abilities that are done when they’re done.

I used to be in favor of this idea, but as I’ve played the class more, I’m against it.

The nature of illusions is that they are targeted skills. Being able to assign them to three different targets is extremely handy, and something no other profession can do.

In early levels, where cooldowns are longer, it can be frustrating, but in later levels, especially when illusions start having AoE-on-death effects, having even phantasms die has its advantages, especially in zerg situations.

YMMV, of course. But I think this is one part of the class that isn’t broken.

Guys,

You HAVE to realize that illusions as AoE simply do not function in DEs.

Some here made an argument that you can trait it, so when the illusion dies, nearby enemies get a random condition. But you have to realize that in many/most events, an average mob dies in ~2-3 seconds. That’s not enough for a condition to tap it. Especially when the precise spawn point is known, many classes just spam their AoEs on that spot and enemies die as they spawn. First example of this in Human lands is the bridge defense in Kessex Hills – just spam AoEs on the bridge mouth and rack up kills. Other classes place firewalls, mines, turrets, etc. What can a Mesmer place there? Well, nothing! Illusions need a target, and Chaos Storm and the rest have prohibitively long cooldowns.

Second, illusion travel time on shatter activation is unreasonably long. I started a new Engineer recently (wanted a new race), and there’s just no comparison between shatter and grenade. Grenades fly far quicker, and land where you tell them to. You can use them with no enemy present, so they land as a wave spawns, and you tag them all. You can dump a Thumper Turret+Flamer Turret, or slap down a firewall from a Flamethrower. Etc., etc. Either way, mobs spawn, you have 95% chance to tap them all. The sheer volume of loot I get on my Engi, even still at low level, is nowhere even close to what I get on a Mesmer.

And finally, consider fights with a lot of AoE where illusions simply don’t make it to the target. A good example is the Centaur boss who casts large burning circles. If one such circle ends up between him and illusions, none of them will make it to him to shatter – a full DoT cycle is enough to kill a player – a single tick is enough to kill an illusion. Your DPS suffers horrendously, especially since he likes to cast the circles liberally and at the range illusions usually choose. And since illusions don’t obey commands, you can’t move them.

Seriously, if any of you think Mesmer is fine, go try an Engineer and just compare and contrast. Mesmer is absolutely borked. Engineer is not optimal but functions sooooo much better in DEs and there’s literally fields of sparkling corpses at the end of every DE event.

Sabbathius.1465:

Guys,
Seriously, if any of you think Mesmer is fine, go try an Engineer and just compare and contrast. Mesmer is absolutely borked. Engineer is not optimal but functions sooooo much better in DEs and there’s literally fields of sparkling corpses at the end of every DE event.

The Mesmer is fine. I play an engineer as well, and I prefer my Mesmer. It’s okay if a particular class doesn’t click with you, it doesn’t mean it’s “broken” or in need of changes. It means you should play another class… like your engineer.

Mesmer is fine.
If your trying to play one like a pet class, you need to roll a class intended on having pets.

The Phantasms are not pets, they are glorified arcane blast.
You dont use a strong skill on an enemy with 1/4th of its health left in DE’s do you.

If you are having problems keeping illusions out, you need to invest 5 points in the illusions trait line and 20 points in the dueling trait line.

The mesmer isnt a pet class, and shouldnt be compared to a pet class, the mechanics of it are actually very different.

The Mesmer is fine. I play an engineer as well, and I prefer my Mesmer. It’s okay if a particular class doesn’t click with you, it doesn’t mean it’s “broken” or in need of changes. It means you should play another class… like your engineer.

Begging your pardon, but a class that gets royally screwed on the loot in DEs, which in GW2 constitute “endgame” cannot by definition be “fine”. This includes both PvE and PvP DEs (WvWvW).

OK…let me try this.

The OP’s point is this. In DEs, if there are a decent number of people participating, he feels as though individual mobs die so quickittenhat iBerserker never gets to attack even once. Meaning it does no damage. And by the time the CD is down, that wave of mobs is long since dead. Since aoe spam is basically the only way to get loot in DEs, he’s frustrated.

Now, MY personal experience in Orr has been different. With the CD reduction trait, I can always get 1-2 attack phases with zerker per wave, and that is usually enough to get loot. However, I’ve heard similar complaints about mesmer aoe from enough sources I won’t totally discount them. I have four suggestions to potentially improve this. Any or all of these could make a big difference:

1) Add a splash component to Spatial Surge. Just a little damage to any mob in x range of the target. It’s odd that one attack is single target when everything else in the set has an aoe component.
2) Add an extra bounce to Mirror Blade.
3) Larger radius on Mind Stab. Again, just somewhat bigger, but asking for like..Chaos Storm radius or anything.
4) Change iZerker to a targeted aoe. It lands in the target area, spins around it for a while, then dissipates if A) no targets are in range it is destroyed/shattered.

Not suggesting ALL of these be implemented, just something. 1 or 3 would be most sensible, I think.

The illusions disappear because for all intensive purposes, they are not designed to be permanent. The core mechanic of the mesmer is shatters, not illusions. Think of illusions as a means to an end.

Quite simply, the general cooldowns of most of our phantasm’s/clones are low cooldown with relatively low cast time for the effects you receive from the phantasm/clone themself. In addition to that, you are ment to shatter them before the MOB dies to receive the bonus effect.

For example, in DE’s with swarms of mobs, I will typically summon my berserker + 1 clone and immediately F1 them. It gets me 3 AoE Nukes right off the bat into a cluster of mobs. (1 From Berserker attack, 2 from F1 Shatter Effect).

The class mechanic is not broken, and so I would logically assume that no plans are in the works to fix that which is not broken. Your concept of the class design is flawed, nothing more.

As for “loot in DE’s,” I personally have had no issues with this. As an 80 Mesmer, I feel I have just as much ability to hit every mob in a DE zerg as anyone else, and in most cases…more of an ability to do so, only comparable to Engi and Ele. If anything, you should feel sorry for the melee, as most of the DE MOB zerg is dead or near dead before the melee even get a chance to hit them.

I believe that the OP doesn’t know that Phantasms are ment to recreate hexes in a physical form. Now taking that information, if a hex stopped when the target died it makes sense, if a hex transfered to another target when the target “host” died then it would be op. Also, try not using phantasms as the target dies. And dont get attached to them, I mind wrack mine as and when i want the burst damage and only use them for actual dmg if I feel the fight will be a long one

wow, complain about mesmer being weak in something? this is one thing that makes illusions balanced imo, they are single target oriented and not like pets, it would be way too powerfull if they would be like pets + it doesnt fit a profession lore of attacking peoples mind, AOE mind control seems a bit weird and OP

Mesmers don’t have to get screwed on loot, but phantasms just don’t work for more than one attack cycle. Cast a phantasm, cast a clone, dodge roll for a 3rd one and shatter. Switch weapons when you feel you should, and shatter more. With confusion on shatters etc. this playstyle easily beats those wide-swinging 2h melees in the AoE department.

Phantasms are pretty much only good to keep around against veteran and champion mobs. I don’t think this is a problem since they put out a quick burst of damage and can be shattered.

^^

Not to mention during events stay targeted on the mob that will lie the longest. Spawn phantasms that you can, drop aoe field, spawn clones. This will dump dmg and bleeds on main “boss” while stacking confusion and when the life span of phantasms are about up or they’ve fulfilled their key usefulness splode them for more confusion and mass aoe damage tapping everything in range.

Mesmer, IMHO, is a class/profession that is currently in a really good state. Not op but not up either. Still it has its buggies but most can be worked around without much grief.

(No idea why I can’t see the Quote button in this thread, all other threads i can.)

“Begging your pardon, but a class that gets royally screwed on the loot in DEs, which in GW2 constitute “endgame” cannot by definition be “fine”. This includes both PvE and PvP DEs (WvWvW).”

Sorry, but THIS is the correct answer:

“The Mesmer is fine. I play an engineer as well, and I prefer my Mesmer. It’s okay if a particular class doesn’t click with you, it doesn’t mean it’s “broken” or in need of changes. It means you should play another class… like your engineer.”

He’s right. I see no issues that YOU complain about…. maybe it has something to do with your understanding of the class.

As another Mesmer pointed out in his video’s, there are those that complain and THINK the class is broken… and then there are those that PROVE the class is fine.

Mesmer is NOT a simple class, most people want Mesmer to play THEIR way instead of playing it how it’s MEANT to be played. once you figure that out.. you will play Mesmer better.

is it perfect? no
suited for everyone? no
broken? not really
need some tweaks? yes

I agree with Thebacklash, not all 8 professions need to work universally for all players. Mesmer works fine, or rather, this specific problem really shouldn’t be on the table until the long list of bugs has been resolved and rebalancing of existent traits/abilities has been done.

It’s quite alright if a specific profession feels wrong for you. It just might be.

Mesmer works perfectly as is. Some would even say OP. No need what-so-ever for a change like that.

After reading this thread…

Easymode, go outside and get some fresh air, take a break for a few minutes…Rarely do I see such anger and frustration in post after post on these forums.

Invictus.1503:

It is a unique to the profession. If they remained, now they are basically pretty minions (of the necro). If they are permanent then they are humanoid pets (of ranger). If they are not tied to a baddie, but instead have a time duration then they are spirit weapons or elementals that look like you (of Guardian and Elementalist).

It fits with the lore that they disappear as well. Since they are illusions it stands to reason that if the target of the illusion is dead, the illusion would die too. It can be frustrating with quick mobs, but with boss battles they are awesome!

It is kind of like when you kill a mob and the irritating snare that is put on you disappears as well….Oh wait it doesn’t. How odd.

Thebacklash.8396:

(No idea why I can’t see the Quote button in this thread, all other threads i can.)

“Begging your pardon, but a class that gets royally screwed on the loot in DEs, which in GW2 constitute “endgame” cannot by definition be “fine”. This includes both PvE and PvP DEs (WvWvW).”

Sorry, but THIS is the correct answer:

“The Mesmer is fine. I play an engineer as well, and I prefer my Mesmer. It’s okay if a particular class doesn’t click with you, it doesn’t mean it’s “broken” or in need of changes. It means you should play another class… like your engineer.”

He’s right. I see no issues that YOU complain about…. maybe it has something to do with your understanding of the class.

As another Mesmer pointed out in his video’s, there are those that complain and THINK the class is broken… and then there are those that PROVE the class is fine.

Mesmer is NOT a simple class, most people want Mesmer to play THEIR way instead of playing it how it’s MEANT to be played. once you figure that out.. you will play Mesmer better.

is it perfect? no
suited for everyone? no
broken? not really
need some tweaks? yes

Great Response +1

It is kind of like when you kill a mob and the irritating snare that is put on you disappears as well….Oh wait it doesn’t. How odd.

And what about the snare on the mob you killed?

Sabbathius.1465:

The Mesmer is fine. I play an engineer as well, and I prefer my Mesmer. It’s okay if a particular class doesn’t click with you, it doesn’t mean it’s “broken” or in need of changes. It means you should play another class… like your engineer.

Begging your pardon, but a class that gets royally screwed on the loot in DEs, which in GW2 constitute “endgame” cannot by definition be “fine”. This includes both PvE and PvP DEs (WvWvW).

If you think the mesmer gets screwed with DE loot it means you are playing wrong. It doesn’t mean there is something wrong with the class.

To the OP once you have more experience with the class your illusions dying with their target won’t bother you.