Guild Wars 2

As the title suggests, I ask to undo the nerf to Mirror Blade. It was never the issue. It was in the game long before the specialization patch and was never complained about.

The real problem was the Confounding Suggestions & Power Lock combo. Especially when done from stealth. (This is NOT what this thread is about. Please do not discuss this matter here)

Therefore, it’s a hard and unneeded nerf to a long standing trait; Illusionary Elasticity. Which we were promised to get as baseline. Basically removing it for one skill only.

Moreover, in order to get the maximum number of bounces to hit your target, you had to literally stand on your enemy. For a mesmer, the most vulnerable profession in my opinion, it’s very risky. High risk for a high reward tactic, like the mesmer should be.

To summarize, the mesmer main role in pvp is to burst. We can’t sustain in fights for a long period of time, we have to be quick and nimble. In order to achieve that, we have to take risks. This nerf hurts all that, without addressing the real issue. All power mesmers are negatively affected by this nerf, those who use mantras and those who do not.

I encourage everyone to go to HoTM and check Mirror Blade on a Target Golem – Light. See how well it does, then come back here and say that the 1 extra bounce was overpowered.

I am with you on this, all valid points in your post.

Not everyone runs the meta build, I currently run a variant of the boonshare build using GS / Staff, and this nerf hurts.

Ithamir.5928:

As the title suggests, I ask to undo the nerf to Mirror Blade. It was never the issue. It was in the game long before the specialization patch and was never complained about.

The real problem was the Confounding Suggestions & Power Lock combo. Especially when done from stealth. (This is NOT what this thread is about. Please do not discuss this matter here)

Therefore, it’s a hard and unneeded nerf to a long standing trait; Illusionary Elasticity. Which we were promised to get as baseline. Basically removing it for one skill only.

Moreover, in order to get the maximum number of bounces to hit your target, you had to literally stand on your enemy. For a mesmer, the most vulnerable profession in my opinion, it’s very risky. High risk for a high reward tactic, like the mesmer should be.

To summarize, the mesmer main role in pvp is to burst. We can’t sustain in fights for a long period of time, we have to be quick and nimble. In order to achieve that, we have to take risks. This nerf hurts all that, without addressing the real issue. All power mesmers are negatively affected by this nerf, those who use mantras and those who do not.

Sorry, I beg to differ regarding the high risk for high reward and most vulnerable remarks. If you were to run without any trait what so ever than I would agree with you. But when you have traits like BD, MoA, and PU, Mesmer burst is far from being risky.

Drop the bias a bit and maybe we can have a serious discussion.

Tbh I think this was the only necessary nerf for mesmers out of the whole patch.

Gabriell.4856:

Sorry, I beg to differ regarding the high risk for high reward and most vulnerable remarks. If you were to run without any trait what so ever than I would agree with you. But when you have traits like BD, MoA, and PU, Mesmer burst is far from being risky.

Drop the bias a bit and maybe we can have a serious discussion.

Unfortunately I can’t drop the bias, as mesmer is my main. I would really appreciate it if you would continue to keep me in check when you see that my point of view is skewed. Although, keep in mind, that we’re all biased in some way or another.

I use Blinding Dissipation and Mirror of Anguish. However, I do not use Prismatic Understanding, I use Chaotic Interruption instead. Also, I use MoA because it’s the only non-condition oriented trait in that slot. It also has a hefty cooldown of 60 seconds. Longer than most other similar traits for other professions by the way.

Can you please share your thoughts on the nerf to Mirror Blade? You seem like you could contribute to this thread.

Edit:

Tbh I think this was the only necessary nerf for mesmers out of the whole patch.

How come? This trait was here before the patch. It was never an issue before. If anything, it was underpowered. Often times not taken, for contending with Masterful Reflection.

The issue imo is why nerf mirror blade when all damage is high across the boards. So when they address the stats on amulets we will be throwing an unblockable wet noodle that they will not revert.

Ithamir.5928:

Gabriell.4856:

Sorry, I beg to differ regarding the high risk for high reward and most vulnerable remarks. If you were to run without any trait what so ever than I would agree with you. But when you have traits like BD, MoA, and PU, Mesmer burst is far from being risky.

Drop the bias a bit and maybe we can have a serious discussion.

Unfortunately I can’t drop the bias, as mesmer is my main. I would really appreciate it if you would continue to keep me in check when you see that my point of view is skewed. Although, keep in mind, that we’re all biased in some way or another.

I use Blinding Dissipation and Mirror of Anguish. However, I do not use Prismatic Understanding, I use Chaotic Interruption instead. Also, I use MoA because it’s the only non-condition oriented trait in that slot. It also has a hefty cooldown of 60 seconds. Longer than most other similar traits for other professions by the way.

Can you please share your thoughts on the nerf to Mirror Blade? You seem like you could contribute to this thread.

Edit:

Tbh I think this was the only necessary nerf for mesmers out of the whole patch.

How come? This trait was here before the patch. It was never an issue before. If anything, it was underpowered. Often times not taken, for contending with Masterful Reflection.

Let start by setting something straight. Do not compare old Mirror Blade to the current Mirror Blade without giving consideration to power creep/amulet changes/stats changes/etc. You’re basically saying we could do it before the patch and now we can’t therefore we are in a worst position than before. Even the meta build changed from Dom/Duel/Ill to Dom/Duel/Chaos or Ill. Totally an apple to orange comparison.

The nerf to MB is justified. With 4 bounce, the damage coef would be 2.1 which is pretty dang close to thief’s BS of 2.4. On top of being unblockable, cannot be reflected, and by pass swirling wind, it is over the top with the damage potential.

yes it was a trait, WAS
now it was standard
and with the increased power due to the patch it was too strong
accept it

would you rather have 4 bounces and the base dmg cut in half??
my god one nerf and you are already crying for a buff

I don’t mind it that much although I’ll admit Mirror Blade was not the issue that needed to be fixed. It’s been around since the beginning and no one, with a sound mind, has complained about it ever that I know of. I get that making it baseline opened up more damage possibilities to us, but the crux of the issue that people have been complaining about is being able to stealth burst other classes. Now of course Mirror Blade has a part in that rotation, but I highly doubt that extra 2k bounce is what was putting us over the top.

I don’t really care if they revert it or not, but it definitely wasn’t a skill that needed to be changed. Anet always finds creative ways to not do what we ask though. xD

Edit: @DHawk
That extra 2.5k damage was really kittening you off huh bud? lol

With marauder amulet:

Mirror Blade:
2050*0.7*1047.5/2029 = 740.8
Crit 740.8*1.76 = 1304
With multipliers 1304*1.12 = 1460
2nd hit 1512, 3rd hit 1564
Total: 4,536

Mind Wrack:
2050*0.89*1047.5/2029 = 942
Crit 942*1.76 = 1658
With multipliers 1658*1.255= 2081 (2081*2 = 4162)

That’s a non mental anguish buffed MW after using mirror blade (pre nerf) assuming they all crit and you will be sitting on some 75% crit chance (over 80% with pack runes) so it’s not outside the realms of possibility.

Mirror blade makes up way too much of that with very little commitment to burst. I gather the emphasis of this nerf is to move the damage onto mental anguish and thus shatters as opposed to mirror blade.

With that mirror blade would be about 3k and your MW would go down by about 5% (~200 damage)on non mental anguish builds like the mantra build. So your MB+MW burst would be just over 7k instead of about 8.6k. However such builds make that up with powerblock.

Edit: Did a 1 clone shatter instead of 2. Conclusion is the same though.
Edit 2: Incase anyone is wondering why the damage is lower it’s because it’s using PvP amulets. In WvW you can get upto 220% crit damage and over 3k power which would give mirror blade crits of 2.7k and up.

apharma.3741:

With marauder amulet:

Mirror Blade:
2050*0.7*1047.5/2029 = 740.8
Crit 740.8*1.76 = 1304
With multipliers 1304*1.12 = 1460
2nd hit 1512, 3rd hit 1564
Total: 4,536

Mind Wrack:
2050*0.89*1047.5/2029 = 942
Crit 942*1.76 = 1658
With multipliers 1658*1.255= 2081 (2081*2 = 4162)

That’s a non mental anguish buffed MW after using mirror blade (pre nerf) assuming they all crit and you will be sitting on some 75% crit chance (over 80% with pack runes) so it’s not outside the realms of possibility.

Mirror blade makes up way too much of that with very little commitment to burst. I gather the emphasis of this nerf is to move the damage onto mental anguish and thus shatters as opposed to mirror blade.

With that mirror blade would be about 3k and your MW would go down by about 5% (~200 damage)on non mental anguish builds like the mantra build. So your MB+MW burst would be just over 7k instead of about 8.6k. However such builds make that up with powerblock.

Edit: Did a 1 clone shatter instead of 2. Results are the same though.
Edit 2: Incase anyone is wondering why the damage is lower it’s because it’s using PvP amulets. In WvW you can get upto 220% crit damage and over 3k power which would give mirror blade crits of 2.7k and up.

These numbers are assuming that the opposing player doesn’t dodge, block, port away, or invuln. If the players don’t use defensive maneuvers supplied then I could see how Mirror Blade was the problem here. Also you have to be basically right next to the player to get off that full rotation so I don’t see how that’s non-committal.

Plus the mesmer community has been over this again and again how we don’t want all of our damage front loaded into our shatters/phantasms, but it keeps happening with every update they do.

Raunchy.6891:

apharma.3741:

With marauder amulet:

Mirror Blade:
2050*0.7*1047.5/2029 = 740.8
Crit 740.8*1.76 = 1304
With multipliers 1304*1.12 = 1460
2nd hit 1512, 3rd hit 1564
Total: 4,536

Mind Wrack:
2050*0.89*1047.5/2029 = 942
Crit 942*1.76 = 1658
With multipliers 1658*1.255= 2081 (2081*2 = 4162)

That’s a non mental anguish buffed MW after using mirror blade (pre nerf) assuming they all crit and you will be sitting on some 75% crit chance (over 80% with pack runes) so it’s not outside the realms of possibility.

Mirror blade makes up way too much of that with very little commitment to burst. I gather the emphasis of this nerf is to move the damage onto mental anguish and thus shatters as opposed to mirror blade.

With that mirror blade would be about 3k and your MW would go down by about 5% (~200 damage)on non mental anguish builds like the mantra build. So your MB+MW burst would be just over 7k instead of about 8.6k. However such builds make that up with powerblock.

Edit: Did a 1 clone shatter instead of 2. Results are the same though.
Edit 2: Incase anyone is wondering why the damage is lower it’s because it’s using PvP amulets. In WvW you can get upto 220% crit damage and over 3k power which would give mirror blade crits of 2.7k and up.

These numbers are assuming that the opposing player doesn’t dodge, block, port away, or invuln. If the players don’t use defensive maneuvers supplied then I could see how Mirror Blade was the problem here. Also you have to be basically right next to the player to get off that full rotation so I don’t see how that’s non-committal.

Plus the mesmer community has been over this again and again how we don’t want all of our damage front loaded into our shatters/phantasms, but it keeps happening with every update they do.

“These numbers are assuming that the opposing player doesn’t dodge, block, port away, or invuln.”

Can’t block…mirror blade….

Raunchy.6891:

These numbers are assuming that the opposing player doesn’t dodge, block, port away, or invuln. If the players don’t use defensive maneuvers supplied then I could see how Mirror Blade was the problem here. Also you have to be basically right next to the player to get off that full rotation so I don’t see how that’s non-committal.

Plus the mesmer community has been over this again and again how we don’t want all of our damage front loaded into our shatters/phantasms, but it keeps happening with every update they do.

It’s just to show how much of that combo MB is accounting for, which is way too much. At the end of the day Anet do want shatters to be our burst and that’s what we’re talking about, burst not just damage.

As for the invuln, block, blind arguement, that can be levied against almost every burst in the game except maybe thief due to the way they can keep at it till it’s landed.

Bonus points: Do the math at 3k power and 220% crit chance, it’s absolutely insane.

Gabriell.4856:

“These numbers are assuming that the opposing player doesn’t dodge, block, port away, or invuln.”

Can’t block…mirror blade….

I’m sorry, does Mind Wrack, the other HALF of that damage have a tooltip saying it’s unblockable? Oh I didn’t think so…

I think the Mirror Blade nerf was fair bearing in mind the relative strength of Mesmer currently. I always felt it to be a little over the top before specialisations but it glided under the radar because Mesmer was generally pretty irrelevant in sPvP. It’s still a 1200 range unblockable projectile on an 8 second cooldown (lowest is less than 5 seconds with IC and IB). It’s still amazing.

Raunchy.6891:

Gabriell.4856:

“These numbers are assuming that the opposing player doesn’t dodge, block, port away, or invuln.”

Can’t block…mirror blade….

I’m sorry, does Mind Wrack, the other HALF of that damage have a tooltip saying it’s unblockable? Oh I didn’t think so…

Where did I say MW is unblockable? Oh I didn’t think so…

apharma.3741:

Raunchy.6891:

These numbers are assuming that the opposing player doesn’t dodge, block, port away, or invuln. If the players don’t use defensive maneuvers supplied then I could see how Mirror Blade was the problem here. Also you have to be basically right next to the player to get off that full rotation so I don’t see how that’s non-committal.

Plus the mesmer community has been over this again and again how we don’t want all of our damage front loaded into our shatters/phantasms, but it keeps happening with every update they do.

It’s just to show how much of that combo MB is accounting for, which is way too much. At the end of the day Anet do want shatters to be our burst and that’s what we’re talking about, burst not just damage.

As for the invuln, block, blind arguement, that can be levied against almost every burst in the game except maybe thief due to the way they can keep at it till it’s landed.

Bonus points: Do the math at 3k power and 220% crit chance, it’s absolutely insane.

Shatters still account for about 60-80% of our burst depending on how many clones you have out so I don’t see how taking away more of our personal damage balances our burst. This change mostly hurts pve mesmers honestly and it’s a shame. It takes away a bit of burst overall for pvp mesmers but in the long run MB was not the issue and it didn’t really need to be changed.

Also yeah you’re right, but most other classes have reliable ways to cc the target and land their burst. All we have is CS lol.

Edit: @Gabriell
And I obviously wasn’t talking about blocking the move that’s been unblockable since launch. Please just think about things before you reply to them.

Raunchy.6891:

Shatters still account for about 60-80% of our burst depending on how many clones you have out so I don’t see how taking away more of our personal damage balances our burst. This change mostly hurts pve mesmers honestly and it’s a shame. It takes away a bit of burst overall for pvp mesmers but in the long run MB was not the issue and it didn’t really need to be changed.

Also yeah you’re right, but most other classes have reliable ways to cc the target and land their burst. All we have is CS lol.

Um in PvE you should still one shot trash, anything harder you proably want a phantasm build. That’s without mentioning PvP balance trumps PvE balance mostly in Anets eyes.

Shatters under 4 bounce Mirror Blade accounted for less than half of the burst. Now it is in line with the 60-80%.

Please, do tell us what the issue was.

Gabriell.4856:

Let start by setting something straight. Do not compare old Mirror Blade to the current Mirror Blade without giving consideration to power creep/amulet changes/stats changes/etc.

IF AMULET POWER CREEP IS THE kittenING PROBLEM THEN WHY DIDN’T THEY FIX THE kittenING AMULET POWER CREEP?????

Pre patch berserker: 40.4% crit chance
Mirror blade:
2058*0.7*1047.5/2029 = 743.7
Crit 743.7*1.81 = 1346
With multipliers 1346*1.03 = 1386 1st hit.
Subsequent hits: 2nd = 1427, 3rd = 1467

Post patch marauder: 54% crit chance
Mirror Blade:
2050*0.7*1047.5/2029 = 740.8
Crit 740.8*1.76 = 1304
With multipliers 1304*1.12 = 1460
2nd hit 1512, 3rd hit 1564

Post patch berserker: 46.8% crit chance.
Mirror Blade:
2200*0.7*1047.5/2029 = 795
Crit 795*1.93 = 1534
With multipliers 1534*1.12 = 1718
2nd hit 1779, 3rd hit 1856

Thats assuming all crits. You can adjust for whether it crits or doesn’t crit and add up the total damage yourself. Also, no I didn’t work it out just for you guys, I did it in another post. The post patch is assuming we interrupt the target first with a mantra of distraction.

Gabriell.4856:

With 4 bounce, the damage coef would be 2.1 which is pretty dang close to thief’s BS of 2.4.

Why didn’t you say that before? We can’t have Mesmer being as strong as other classes, that would be horrific.

apharma.3741:

Shatters under 4 bounce Mirror Blade accounted for less than half of the burst. Now it is in line with the 60-80%.

The annoying thing about this change is that the more you focus all burst on shatter, the more DE becomes a god-tier “take me or suck” trait.

That was the nice thing about old MB: you could play an HM build and it constrained your options a bit — you were stuck mostly doing the one-clone Mirror Blade quick shatter — but there were at least two competing viable ways to build bursty mesmers.

Levetty.1279:

Gabriell.4856:

With 4 bounce, the damage coef would be 2.1 which is pretty dang close to thief’s BS of 2.4.

Why didn’t you say that before? We can’t have Mesmer being as strong as other classes, that would be horrific.

I know right!

It was totally “reasonable” for a weapon skill that is unblockable, apply condition, apply boon, hit super hard, create clone, range, cannot be reflected or stopped by swirling wind be as strong as an attack that is restricted by position and required either a combo, heal, or utility to pull off.

Gabriell.4856:

It was totally “reasonable” for a weapon skill that is unblockable, apply condition, apply boon, hit super hard, create clone, range, cannot be reflected or stopped by swirling wind be as strong as an attack that is restricted by position and required either a combo, heal, or utility to pull off.

(Emphasis added)

Mirror Blade was a very good skill. No argument there. It still is a pretty good skill.

Here’s the thing you need to understand about Mirror Blade, though. Mirror Blade lets you:
a. Hit super hard.
b. Fire it from long range.
PICK ONE. You don’t really get to do both.

Also, there’s no mesmer weapon that compares to the DPS of thief auto-attacks. It’s all loaded into the burst.

Gabriell.4856:

Levetty.1279:

Gabriell.4856:

With 4 bounce, the damage coef would be 2.1 which is pretty dang close to thief’s BS of 2.4.

Why didn’t you say that before? We can’t have Mesmer being as strong as other classes, that would be horrific.

I know right!

It was totally “reasonable” for a weapon skill that is unblockable, apply condition, apply boon, hit super hard, create clone, range, cannot be reflected or stopped by swirling wind be as strong as an attack that is restricted by position and required either a combo, heal, or utility to pull off.

It wasn’t as strong. 2.1 is less than 2.4 :P

ASP, there’s a difference between range and long range.

The sweet spot for MB is usually just outside of the reach of melee classes but still close enough for you to get the bounces and to enter melee range when you’re ready to shatter. At least, that’s how I’ve been using it.

That there’s an option to do a fair bit of damage to a cluster of enemies from range when it’s too hot to go melee is just icing on top of a pretty sweet skill.

Simonoly.4352:

I think the Mirror Blade nerf was fair bearing in mind the relative strength of Mesmer currently. I always felt it to be a little over the top before specialisations but it glided under the radar because Mesmer was generally pretty irrelevant in sPvP. It’s still a 1200 range unblockable projectile on an 8 second cooldown (lowest is less than 5 seconds with IC and IB). It’s still amazing.

If you use MB from range and there’re people near your enemy, friends or foes, than it becomes very unreliable for bursting. Not to mention the very low travel speed of the projectile, nor how bluntly visible a giant purple flaming greatsword is. Its burst potential is from point-blank. The range is irrelevant more often than not.

DHawk.2687:

yes it was a trait, WAS
now it was standard
and with the increased power due to the patch it was too strong
accept it

would you rather have 4 bounces and the base dmg cut in half??
my god one nerf and you are already crying for a buff

Since June 23 patch, how many nerfs have Mesmers received? I think more so than other classes.

tobascodagama.2961:

Gabriell.4856:

Let start by setting something straight. Do not compare old Mirror Blade to the current Mirror Blade without giving consideration to power creep/amulet changes/stats changes/etc.

IF AMULET POWER CREEP IS THE kittenING PROBLEM THEN WHY DIDN’T THEY FIX THE kittenING AMULET POWER CREEP?????

This.

rchu.8945:

DHawk.2687:

yes it was a trait, WAS
now it was standard
and with the increased power due to the patch it was too strong
accept it

would you rather have 4 bounces and the base dmg cut in half??
my god one nerf and you are already crying for a buff

Since June 23 patch, how many nerfs have Mesmers received? I think more so than other classes.

What an odd claim to make.

This is the only one of the two patches since June 23 in which any changes were made to the mesmer class. Most of the changes made to any class in either patch have also been labelled as bug fixes, which can hardly be seen as “nerfs”.

And have you even read through the gains and losses the different classes received on June 23?

ASP.8093:

Gabriell.4856:

It was totally “reasonable” for a weapon skill that is unblockable, apply condition, apply boon, hit super hard, create clone, range, cannot be reflected or stopped by swirling wind be as strong as an attack that is restricted by position and required either a combo, heal, or utility to pull off.

(Emphasis added)

Mirror Blade was a very good skill. No argument there. It still is a pretty good skill.

Here’s the thing you need to understand about Mirror Blade, though. Mirror Blade lets you:
a. Hit super hard.
b. Fire it from long range.
PICK ONE. You don’t really get to do both.

Also, there’s no mesmer weapon that compares to the DPS of thief auto-attacks. It’s all loaded into the burst.

I’m not talking about the MB+MW+GS3 combo but just MB by itself. You can still get full damage at 1200 range b/c it will still bounce.

What do you mean by auto attack? The stealth attack (which is an AA) or the regular AA outside of stealth?

Gabriell.4856:

What do you mean by auto attack? The stealth attack (which is an AA) or the regular AA outside of stealth?

Regular AAs.

Choppy.4183:

rchu.8945:

DHawk.2687:

yes it was a trait, WAS
now it was standard
and with the increased power due to the patch it was too strong
accept it

would you rather have 4 bounces and the base dmg cut in half??
my god one nerf and you are already crying for a buff

Since June 23 patch, how many nerfs have Mesmers received? I think more so than other classes.

What an odd claim to make.

This is the only one of the two patches since June 23 in which any changes were made to the mesmer class. Most of the changes made to any class in either patch have also been labelled as bug fixes, which can hardly be seen as “nerfs”.

And have you even read through the gains and losses the different classes received on June 23?

It’s not about how many nerfs a class get. Not even how big those nerfs are. The only thing that matters is how the class is doing before and after the changes. Before the spec. patch, mesmer was almost non existent in pvp. Afterwards, more people started to play it. Veterans and newbs alike. Seeing that was heartwarming for long time mesmers.

Anet should have given more time for players to come up with counters, via builds and strategies . Just like Signet Necros are starting to pop up to counter the “OP” ele. I respect constant tweaks and updates to balance things out. However, after a huge patch like this, Anet should’ve left the meta to settle on its own a bit, before bringing out the nerf bat.

After a “grace period”, go and nerf abilities you consider OP. But even then, do it piece by piece. No need to nerf MB and Mantras at the same time. That is, if they really intend to do weekly balance updates.

The problems is not mesmer per se. It is the WTS. They’re too soon for this kind of approach. So Anet’s decision is to revert what they assumed was breaking the balance as quickly as they could, to give themselves time to re-balance again after the inevitable bugs arise.

@ithamir
Just found his comment weird given it takes less than a minute to check if it’s true. I wasn’t making any broader point beyond that.

Ithamir.5928:

Choppy.4183:

rchu.8945:

DHawk.2687:

yes it was a trait, WAS
now it was standard
and with the increased power due to the patch it was too strong
accept it

would you rather have 4 bounces and the base dmg cut in half??
my god one nerf and you are already crying for a buff

Since June 23 patch, how many nerfs have Mesmers received? I think more so than other classes.

What an odd claim to make.

This is the only one of the two patches since June 23 in which any changes were made to the mesmer class. Most of the changes made to any class in either patch have also been labelled as bug fixes, which can hardly be seen as “nerfs”.

And have you even read through the gains and losses the different classes received on June 23?

It’s not about how many nerfs a class get. Not even how big those nerfs are. The only thing that matters is how the class is doing before and after the changes. Before the spec. patch, mesmer was almost non existent in pvp. Afterwards, more people started to play it. Veterans and newbs alike. Seeing that was heartwarming for long time mesmers.

Anet should have given more time for players to come up with counters, via builds and strategies . Just like Signet Necros are starting to pop up to counter the “OP” ele. I respect constant tweaks and updates to balance things out. However, after a huge patch like this, Anet should’ve left the meta to settle on its own a bit, before bringing out the nerf bat.

After a “grace period”, go and nerf abilities you consider OP. But even then, do it piece by piece. No need to nerf MB and Mantras at the same time. That is, if they really intend to do weekly balance updates.

The problems is not mesmer per se. It is the WTS. They’re too soon for this kind of approach. So Anet’s decision is to revert what they assumed was breaking the balance as quickly as they could, to give themselves time to re-balance again after the inevitable bugs arise.

That’s a good point. I would like to take it further by saying they should of waited to release spec patch with the release of HoT. They are basically making balancing decisions with only 5/6 trait line active. Who knows how Elite spec will play out. Maybe someone will make a counter with an Elite spec. So nerfs now will just stack on further nerfs when they adjustments for Elite specs….Just my two cents.

Swear people are just looking for things to complain about. I’ve never once heard anyone prior to now claim the Mirror Blade was OP because it has long range, makes a clone, applies might/vuln, and can’t be blocked. It’s done the same thing since forever, but now that it’s suddenly worse than it was pre-patch it is way too strong and should stay as is or get nerfed more…

Let’s not forget that Mirror Blade might as well have 240 range as you’re just crippling your own damage while also giving your opponent more than enough time to react if you try casting it outside of melee range. Mirror Blade is undoubtedly strong, but nerfing it back to pre-patch and then some(since you can no longer trait for the 4th bounce anymore) was not only heavy handed, but it also wasn’t even the real issue, which IMO, is the power creep/amulets change. I don’t really wanna go back to the times when anyone who wasn’t pure glass could face tank a point blank mirror burst and recover to safe hp before it was even off cd again. Forget trying to burst anything tankier than marauder too, be better off ditching the fight to +1 somewhere else if it’ll take longer than 30 seconds to kill someone.

Raunchy.6891:

Gabriell.4856:

“These numbers are assuming that the opposing player doesn’t dodge, block, port away, or invuln.”

Can’t block…mirror blade….

I’m sorry, does Mind Wrack, the other HALF of that damage have a tooltip saying it’s unblockable? Oh I didn’t think so…

Mind wrack is not half of the dmg,mirror blade is all the dmg and mindwrack is even more by itself

Sandrox.9524:

Mind wrack is not half of the dmg,mirror blade is all the dmg and mindwrack is even more by itself

He was referring to this:

Mirror Blade:
2050*0.7*1047.5/2029 = 740.8
Crit 740.8*1.76 = 1304
With multipliers 1304*1.12 = 1460
2nd hit 1512, 3rd hit 1564
Total: 4,536

Mind Wrack:
2050*0.89*1047.5/2029 = 942
Crit 942*1.76 = 1658
With multipliers 1658*1.255= 2081 (2081*2 = 4162)

Which is mirror blade then shatter with the single clone produced and the effect on you now IP is baseline.

apharma.3741:

Raunchy.6891:

Shatters still account for about 60-80% of our burst depending on how many clones you have out so I don’t see how taking away more of our personal damage balances our burst. This change mostly hurts pve mesmers honestly and it’s a shame. It takes away a bit of burst overall for pvp mesmers but in the long run MB was not the issue and it didn’t really need to be changed.

Also yeah you’re right, but most other classes have reliable ways to cc the target and land their burst. All we have is CS lol.

Um in PvE you should still one shot trash, anything harder you proably want a phantasm build. That’s without mentioning PvP balance trumps PvE balance mostly in Anets eyes.

Shatters under 4 bounce Mirror Blade accounted for less than half of the burst. Now it is in line with the 60-80%.

Please, do tell us what the issue was.

Well it’s kind of assumed that you’re running a phantasm build in pve since it has the highest dps potential for us. GS has always been our best way of hitting trash in an aoe and tagging them all even though GS is a very underpeforming weapon in pve when compared to sword/×. So taking away the extra bounce that helps it actually be a viable weapon to kill trash with is annoying.

The damage on 4 bounces is a bit higher because shatter damage was balanced around 3 bounces. Since of course you know the 4th bounce used to be a trait. The whole point of making elasticity baseline was to increase our personal damage and I don’t think it was at a level that needed to be nerfed. The patch proves otherwise I guess, but as I’ve said a lot of the mesmer community doesn’t want it to be this way; we would much rather have better personal damage. Shatters are an unreliable and sometimes very clunky and frustrating mechanic that we don’t want to feel shackled to if we want competitive damage.

I think the whole thing is stupid. Damage right now is just too high in PvP, and it isn’t a mesmer issue. Yes mirror blade hit too hard, but so do most classes right now. I think that the mirror blade nerf should be kept, but other classes need to get the same treatment.

Loony.3714:

I think the whole thing is stupid. Damage right now is just too high in PvP, and it isn’t a mesmer issue. Yes mirror blade hit too hard, but so do most classes right now. I think that the mirror blade nerf should be kept, but other classes need to get the same treatment.

That’s a valid point. However, right now, we live in a world where the other classes are overpowered. So a nerf only to MB is certainly unjustified. Although, I personally rather have a quick & bursty meta rather than the slow & tanky one we had before.

You can already see some elements of “slow and tanky” with people rediscovering cele eles that can juggle Earth/Water when they want to just turtle up with Stone Heart.

Loony.3714:

I think the whole thing is stupid. Damage right now is just too high in PvP, and it isn’t a mesmer issue. Yes mirror blade hit too hard, but so do most classes right now. I think that the mirror blade nerf should be kept, but other classes need to get the same treatment.

They’ll eventually recognise this and adjust PvP amulets or damage formulas. And forget to reverse their stupid-kitten knee-jerk Mesmer nerfs, again.

I had made a thread in the pvp forum a day ago saying the same thing essentially just not really showing the points, I still agree that mirror blades nerf was unneeded, what was needed was a small nerf to pu (NOT A HUGE ONE LIKE EVERYONE WANTS), although i understand where the devs are coming from with the nerf to mirror blade but once again ill say it, why not just lower the might and vuln stacks from 3 stacks to just 2 or even 1 for the vuln, mirror blade will then not do as much damage but still be better than it is now at least. The main reason i say that is because pu is the part that makes it so hard for people to fight mesmers because we can just camp stealth and wait out cds, and just keep bursting, less stealth means you have to use mirror blade better, dont punish ALL the mesmers based off a problem with a whole other spectrum of things, that some people can abuse. just my opinion

tobascodagama.2961:

Loony.3714:

I think the whole thing is stupid. Damage right now is just too high in PvP, and it isn’t a mesmer issue. Yes mirror blade hit too hard, but so do most classes right now. I think that the mirror blade nerf should be kept, but other classes need to get the same treatment.

They’ll eventually recognise this and adjust PvP amulets or damage formulas. And forget to reverse their stupid-kitten knee-jerk Mesmer nerfs, again.

I don’t doubt it either, I’m just incredibly frustrated with their consistent treatment of mesmers. They have done stuff like this over and over with old Power Block and now Chaotic Dampening or MtD. The nerf is a step in the right direction gameplay wise but why doesn’t this happen to other classes.

To all the genius people in this thread and elsewhere… Mirror Blade is something that you can DODGE hilariously easily.

If Anet follows their present route of nerfing every class that can burst, you will have a glorious celestial meta again, where eles are going through endless rotations and barely damage each other, cleanse all conditions, engis will quietly get their range back so they don’t feel left out and then all you still need is the shoutbow since Anet will have to fix the warriors (they cannot stay in this rampage or gtfo state).

Too bad that the celestial meta is plain boring as kitten.

serenke.4806:

To all the genius people in this thread and elsewhere… Mirror Blade is something that you can DODGE hilariously easily.

If Anet follows their present route of nerfing every class that can burst, you will have a glorious celestial meta again, where eles are going through endless rotations and barely damage each other, cleanse all conditions, engis will quietly get their range back so they don’t feel left out and then all you still need is the shoutbow since Anet will have to fix the warriors (they cannot stay in this rampage or gtfo state).

Too bad that the celestial meta is plain boring as kitten.

not when you stunned/mesmer is in stealth/4 sec cd skill

Sandrox.9524:

not when you stunned/mesmer is in stealth/4 sec cd skill

Your first two complaints are not about Mirror Blade. They’re about stun and stealth. Your third complaint is painfully wrong. Untraited, it’s 8 cd. There’re two better traits in the same spot of Imagined Burden. But if you desperately want to feel that MB’s cd is OP, then traited using a Grandmaster slot, it’s 6.5 cd.

Sandrox.9524:

not when you stunned/mesmer is in stealth/4 sec cd skill

The problem there is the too-ready access to 1.25 sec stuns (this could have been addressed in a number of ways; it’s not a problem if the stuns are just dazes, or if the duration is shorter, or if the cooldown is increased) .

serenke.4806:

To all the genius people in this thread and elsewhere… Mirror Blade is something that you can DODGE hilariously easily.

If Anet follows their present route of nerfing every class that can burst, you will have a glorious celestial meta again, where eles are going through endless rotations and barely damage each other, cleanse all conditions, engis will quietly get their range back so they don’t feel left out and then all you still need is the shoutbow since Anet will have to fix the warriors (they cannot stay in this rampage or gtfo state).

Too bad that the celestial meta is plain boring as kitten.

Most mesmers know this however most of these genius people also know how things work. Frankly if this is the only thing we get reduced in damage and the mantra modifier (which I don’t really think needed nerfing) then that’s great.

They could have reduced the 15% baseline on phantasms, reduced MW by 10%, removed fragility, nerfed master fencer and a whole host of other things and believe me those are a lot stronger than a 1.5k extra bounce.

Tha nerf was justified and I would expect there to be more. PU and CS still need to be addressed.