Guild Wars 2

I’m questioning the usefulness of these traits, particularly GS seeing as I’m currently using it in my build.

Assuming you’re using illusionists celerity (should be a given), and taking the GS -20% as an example: MB goes down to around 4.8s from 6.5, mind stab to 9.6s from 12, iZerker to 12s from 16, and Illusionary wave is still huge at 24s. Does that really make much difference?

My current build is a GS/staff hybrid, and in practice it’s not fast enough to get more than two MBs, one mind stab, one zerker and one illusionary wave in per rotation, before switching to staff, and you can do that without the trait anyway.

I can stay in GS for a tiny bit longer and get a third MB and second mind stab in (possibly another zerker), but even a small break in rhythm for repositioning or adapting to the environment means I’m waiting for a couple of seconds when I could be in staff already using abilities.

Staying in the traited weapon for an extended period of time is still inefficient compared to switching up. Unless I’m in a situation at range where staying in GS is the best decision, it seems not to be worth it.

I could say similar things for other cooldown traits. Am I just being completely thick here, or are they underwhelming?

Skip Mind Stab.

GS has relatively short cooldowns for its important skills, it’s a different story with other weapons. Staff has long cooldowns, focus can apply swiftness quicker and so on. Plus there are other improvements, like torch removing conditions or focus reflecting projectiles.

Xavi.6591:

Skip Mind Stab.

Of course, I only mentioned it for completeness. Yeah it’s not great, but it has it’s uses in groups. Funnily enough skipping it makes this even more of a problem, because you’re only cycling between 3 skills and an auto attack.

Iruwen.3164:

GS has relatively short cooldowns for its important skills, it’s a different story with other weapons. Staff has long cooldowns, focus can apply swiftness quicker and so on. Plus there are other improvements, like torch removing conditions or focus reflecting projectiles.

Focus is the one thing I can see the benefit from. Staff possibly. Sceptre/torch, I never specced into them, even for confusion builds so I’ll have to take your word for that. Sword – only really useful if you use OH as well, otherwise it should be called “spear training”.

gs training + illusionary elasticity + mirror blade. amazing might/vulnerability stacking.
i also like traited torch for some fun in pvp.

I love elasticity with GS/staff – only recently switched to use GS Training trait and not really feeling the benefit of it.

Also in hindsight I should have geared the OP and title more towards the GS rather than attacking all other weapon traits, so apologies if it is misleading.

On one hand, it’s hard to notice the difference between using and not using the weapon cooldown traits, because it’s only a few seconds and you’re usually not counting seconds in your head while you’re in combat.

But the way I look at it (And while I say this, I stopped using the GS Trait because the CDs are already pretty low and there are better traits to take), in any PvP combat situation, getting to use key weapon skills a few seconds earlier in a fight could drastically change the outcome.

I don’t know about you but many of my battles have come down to split second decisions. Having weapon skills available more often gives me more options.

Imo Gs weapon trait is kinda meh

Staff weapon trait is amazing

Focus weapon trait is almost amazing

Torch weapon trait pretty bleh compared to the other options 20 deep in power.

Scepter weapon trait again not worth it.

One handed sword weapon trait is very nice in pve but not worth it in pvp.

Pistol hasnt been mentioned.

Also dual swords is amazing in small scale or 1v1 pvp. Sword 4 has saved my bacon against thieves more than i can count.

Don’t think of them as ONLY themselves but in coordination with other traits.

It is obvious but with a phantasm build you want to pump them out as fast as possible and the weapon reduction as well as the adept minor trait in illusions do stack to make the phantasms on the weapons able to be used a lot more often.

Focus Trait is by far the best of them all though. Give us more swiftness up time and gives us two forms of reflection. Standing inside of an iWarden is a particular pleasure of mine when fighting ranged enemies.

Staff is also great. extra 50 toughness isn’t something to shake a stick at.

Pistol is awesome again because of the synergy with the other illusion CD trait. Also, even though the phantasm (this may be a bug or not) does run into 900 range before firing, being able to summon the iDuelist from farther away means that when you are running at an enemy you can get a damage dealing phantasm out before you and him get super close.

Sword is amazing when using dual swords. I use it even if only a main hand though because 50 precision is super nice. As well as being able to use Leap more often.

Greatsword is nice because of the snyergy but also because GS is a heavy hitting weapon to start with 50 power is super nice.

Torch is a joke but torch is also bugged.

I personally have never used Scepter.

I agree that in PvE if you are taking the traits just for the Cool Downs that it may not be worth it but in PvP or WvW a second or two can decide the battle.

It does make a difference especially if you swap weapons a lot. 12sec CD on izerker is pretty much what it take for your weapon swap to CD. I only use these traits for GS and staff though (mainly for izerker/illusionary wave on GS and for Phase Retreat on staff).

Pizzel.8470:

Pistol hasnt been mentioned.

Also dual swords is amazing in small scale or 1v1 pvp. Sword 4 has saved my bacon against thieves more than i can count.

You’ve inspired me to try some duel swords in pvp. I use dual swords all the time in pve but never really in pvp.

All of you brought up some great points.

Since I don’t like being bound to a specific weapon with my mesmer and my traits are pretty much reserved, I don’t get the weapon traits except for the foci.
Berserker Mesmers might want the GS one, Invul Mesmers might like the Sword one, but I have no problem waiting for those 20% til the skills are up again. I usually have enough to do during that time.

Mesmer weapon traits:

• Torch: Remove conditions
• GS: +50 Power
• Sword: +50 Prec
• Spear: +50 Prec
• Pistol: +Range
• Staff: +50 Tough
• Trident: +50 Tough
• Scepter: +50 Malice
• Focus: Reflect

Well, personally, I don’t like the +50 stats. It’s just not enough … but the main point seems to be the CD reduction. But for me the focus version is the only where you wanna get both. With that you can reflect more than guardians.

I’d prefer:

• GS: #1 pierces or #1 has a ~300 AoE at the target
• Sword: hits up to 4~5 target instead of 3
• Staff: #1 get one additional bounce or #1 doubled condition duration
• Scepter: #1 deals 1s confusion each attack (?)

But those would require some coding instead of “+50 stats”.

Regardless of class, I say:

- If you can take a “primary” weapon cd trait within your spec, then by all means take it.
- Confirm that it doesnt conflict with a “critical” trait within your spec needing to be in just that slot, if so ignore the weapon cd trait.
- If it has any other use than the cd, it may be a “critical” trait. Such as the mesmer focus trait. Its just too good to pass if spec down that line. Warrior Warhorn trait in WvW is similar, to take an example.

And that’s pretty much it. If you are a berzerkurderper then you probably want a weapon cd trait and build around that. Any other build need not bother.

Lots of interesting replies, certainly given me some new perspectives on these traits.

Yeah the pistol trait is definitely a decent one, I missed that.

Focus I’m sort of 50/50 on it – one one hand the reflect is great, but at the same time there are many situations when it is not useful for the iWarden, and also times when TC is not positioned for reflecting purposes or when you hit Into the Void immediately. If you’ve already got that many points in Inspiration anyway then of course it is well worth traiting for.

Curunen.8729:

Focus I’m sort of 50/50 on it – one one hand the reflect is great, but at the same time there are many situations when it is not useful for the iWarden, and also times when TC is not positioned for reflecting purposes or when you hit Into the Void immediately. If you’ve already got that many points in Inspiration anyway then of course it is well worth traiting for.

All true, but the focus is so good on its own I would recommend all Mesmers to carry it in WvW (the only exception being if you just have to have greatsword+staff for some obscure reason). The trait comes natural then, assuming you specced down the line. If you havent, well then its no point debating it :p

Nretep.2564:

I’d prefer:

• GS: #1 pierces or #1 has a ~300 AoE at the target

Great sword 1 does hit all targets within the beam.

Mufasa.5671:

Nretep.2564:

I’d prefer:

• GS: #1 pierces or #1 has a ~300 AoE at the target

Great sword 1 does hit all targets within the beam.

I believe GSword 1 hits up to 2 or 3 extra targets within the beam but I’m pretty sure it’s capped.

I have a hard time not traiting for weapon cooldowns. I run a Phantasm build and it can be challenging in PvE to keep all three active so those traits are just too important. Also, I’m impatient so improved cooldowns are great for me.

Blood~

it does hit up to two targets since one of the latter updates. But I don’t think it was necessary, the GS was fine before, too.

Curunen.8729:

Sword – only really useful if you use OH as well, otherwise it should be called “spear training”.

You gotta be kidding me. lol

Even with only MH sword, the trait gives you:

- 20% more invulnerability time (Blurred Frenzy)
- Significantly higher damage output (Blurred Frenzy is one of our strongest (if not the strongest) non-water weapon skills, beating most Phants even)
- Greater chance to proc any crit. hit Sigils and traits (Blurred Frenzy being a fast multi-hit attack makes it extremely easy to proc. something like Critical Infusion for near-constant Vigor uptime)
- 20% more double Leap Finisher (Illusionary Leap and Swap – each is a Leap Finisher)
- 20% more clone summon for Sword (Illusionary Leap)
- 20% more immobilize (Swap – yes, I have absolutely no problem using it)…which synergizes extremely well with Blurred Frenzy and point-blank shatters
- 20% more boon-stripping (last hit of Sword 1 when your Sword clones use it).

This is golden regardless of whether you run PvE or PvP – especially PvP. You’d have to be foolish not to use a Sword and take this trait if you put at least 10 points in Dueling…

^All true, but we’re talking about two skills, neither of which really need the trait, especially if you’ve already got Illusionists Celerity for iLeap.

Unless you are repeatedly hitting BF as soon as it comes off cooldown (same with iLeap), I find this particular trait to be unnecessary; again it depends on build – if your build has you using iLeap and BF regularly, staying in S/x most of the time then I could understand.

But for me, anytime I’ve used S/x I find sufficient other things to do in the time it takes iLeap to cooldown – auto attack, OH skills, utilities, dodge, shatter. And then after iLeap you’ve got a small buffer of time to wait in case BF is still on cooldown (do a few auto attacks if you like).

Now for the spear on the other hand… well that with Illusionists Celerity makes a significant difference with that weapon. Shame I stay in trident most of the time when in combat, even without the trident trait! ;D

Bloodgruve.6038:

Mufasa.5671:

Nretep.2564:

I’d prefer:

• GS: #1 pierces or #1 has a ~300 AoE at the target

Great sword 1 does hit all targets within the beam.

I believe GSword 1 hits up to 2 or 3 extra targets within the beam but I’m pretty sure it’s capped.

I have a hard time not traiting for weapon cooldowns. I run a Phantasm build and it can be challenging in PvE to keep all three active so those traits are just too important. Also, I’m impatient so improved cooldowns are great for me.

Blood~

Capped at 5. Same for the Scepter 3 skill.

I started with Sceptre cooldown trait, have tried torch, and am currently using torch. Here’s the breakdown.

A cool headed, mindful mesmer doesnt need cooldown traits but there’s some benefits to taking them if they don’t come at the cost of a solid build.

Scepter is unnecessary and you’d have to trait into Vitality to get it. It can give you some cool options but it’s not often done.

Torch cooldown is amazing for the reduced prestige (stealth, baby!), and even iMage is expert hands. Of course condition removal is fantastic. Sadly, you have to go into power to get it which usually comes at the cost of more important things.

Staff cooldown will give you more staff #2, which is really useful. Reducing all staff skills is a good thing since they’re all so high without. That said, staff doubles with trident cooldowns, and trident for the mesmer is kitten in the water.

Really it’s about either making the most of them, or learning to live without them. Play will alter based on necessity.