Guild Wars 2

Is the 90s base cooldown really justified?

It’s a great group stealth ability, but the cooldown seems abnormally high for the duration of its effects.

Seems like it should be something around 60s.

Definetly justified in WvW, since its basicly an elite skill in disguise.

If it caused a reveal debuff instead of being chainable, maybe 60s would be good.

Note that this is not an OMGMESMEROP thing, I think all chain stealth is very powerfull no matter the type of skill – and veil in particular can win a battle.

Yes that is a fair point, in those situations it can be powerful.

In small scale/fast encounters and pvp I find it a little lacking. Ah, maybe it’s fine and I just don’t get how to use it properly.

Curunen.8729:

Yes that is a fair point, in those situations it can be powerful.

In small scale/fast encounters and pvp I find it a little lacking. Ah, maybe it’s fine and I just don’t get how to use it properly.

When I thought it was 4s I found it more justifiable because you could chain 8s stealth… Not too shabby…. but now thakittens 4s total… That is just one second longer than decoy or the prestige for 3x the cd.

Maybe they should just increase the base stealth duration to 3s for a run through?

Curunen.8729:

Maybe they should just increase the base stealth duration to 3s for a run through?

Lol… They switched the tooltip to match reality… do you think they are going to put the work in to actually make it work as it was first intended? #lazyanet.

Hehe, well no harm in asking, although plenty of other things with higher priority like iZerker.

Well, if you compare Veil with Shadow Refuge… they have their pros and cons, but I think overall Shadow Refuge is just better. Shadow Refuge has a long prep time compared to Veil, but in group situations you have to plan for group stealth anyway so that’s hardly a problem; and I’d take a much longer stealth for a few seconds of prep time any day. In solo situations… well, plenty of solo Thieves take Shadow Refuge, but what solo Mesmer takes Veil?

Overall I think Veil could do with a CD reduction to 75s and a boost of stealth duration to 3s, or even 4s as was originally intended. Mass Invisibility could also do with a CD reduction to 60s too IMO, especially given it is subject to the AoE limit which makes it worse than Veil in zerg situations.

I see a lot of people saying Veil is a utility elite skill. I don’t see it. The only time it comes in handle to actually do a surprise attack is placing it right in front of a keeps gate before running outside. The stealth is crazy short so you can’t really use it to run away. Because the stealth is so short you can’t really use it to stealth you when running at a keep or camp for a surprise cause you would have to be too far away from it for an opponent to not see you.

I totally agree it needs a massive CD reduction and a stealth increase. BUT I would also rather have our bugs fixed first.

Hexxen.7216:

I see a lot of people saying Veil is a utility elite skill. I don’t see it. The only time it comes in handle to actually do a surprise attack is placing it right in front of a keeps gate before running outside. The stealth is crazy short so you can’t really use it to run away. Because the stealth is so short you can’t really use it to stealth you when running at a keep or camp for a surprise cause you would have to be too far away from it for an opponent to not see you.

I totally agree it needs a massive CD reduction and a stealth increase. BUT I would also rather have our bugs fixed first.

For situations like that Shadow Refuge is far, far superior. I don’t think Veil should be as good as Shadow Refuge: stealth is after all primarily the Thief’s domain: but I do think the discrepancy needs to be smaller.

The same goes for Mass Invisibility.

90s CD, 2s duration. Oh boy, I sure showed them!
Why is it still seen as so strong in WvW? No target limit + easy to utilize (not like Shadow Refuge, you just have to put it into the path of the zerg).

But then, the same goes for Portal. Huge CD to “balance” it’s WvW application, short duration, range limitation.

In both of these cases, I really think they need to re-think the basic premise of the skill to make it more balancable in general. Ideas:

Portal Entre / Exeunt
Creates a Portal, linking two places together. The Mesmer and any of her allies can use either side to instantly teleport to the other side. Depending on the distance travelled and Line of Sight between the exits, materialization takes up to 3 seconds.
Duration: 20(+4) seconds.
Cooldown: 30(-6) seconds.
Materialization: Depending on distance travelled players are dazed + stunned for up to 3 seconds. If there was no LoS between the portals, duration of this effect is always 3 seconds. It is not possible to avoid this effect.

Veil
Creates a weil of light on the ground, separated into five lines. A player crossing through one of these consumes it, becoming stealthed. Enemies crossing the line consume a charge, gaining “Veiled Sight”, briefly losing track of all enemies.
Duration: Veil lasts 10(+2) seconds. Stealth lasts 4(5) seconds. Veiled Sight lasts 2 seconds.
Cooldown: 45(-9) seconds if all charges were used up, -5s per unused charge.
Combo Field: Light

Carighan.6758:

Portal Entre / Exeunt
Creates a Portal, linking two places together. The Mesmer and any of her allies can use either side to instantly teleport to the other side. Depending on the distance travelled and Line of Sight between the exits, materialization takes up to 3 seconds.
Duration: 20(+4) seconds.
Cooldown: 30(-6) seconds.
Materialization: Depending on distance travelled players are dazed + stunned for up to 3 seconds. If there was no LoS between the portals, duration of this effect is always 3 seconds. It is not possible to avoid this effect.

Veil
Creates a weil of light on the ground, separated into five lines. A player crossing through one of these consumes it, becoming stealthed. Enemies crossing the line consume a charge, gaining “Veiled Sight”, briefly losing track of all enemies.
Duration: Veil lasts 10(+2) seconds. Stealth lasts 4(5) seconds. Veiled Sight lasts 2 seconds.
Cooldown: 45(-9) seconds if all charges were used up, -5s per unused charge.
Combo Field: Light

While I always like to hear new ideas, I don’t think anyone will ever want to use a skill that:
-stuns them for 3 seconds (especially in a battle situation)
-makes all of their enemies invisible for 2 seconds (especially in a battle situation)

This kind of change would relegate them to non-combat applications only, making veil completely worthless, and portal only good for golem transport. Boring.

Keep in mind that you can use Veil twice to get two x 2 sec stealth.

dandamanno.4136:

While I always like to hear new ideas, I don’t think anyone will ever want to use a skill that:
-stuns them for 3 seconds (especially in a battle situation)
-makes all of their enemies invisible for 2 seconds (especially in a battle situation)

This kind of change would relegate them to non-combat applications only, making veil completely worthless, and portal only good for golem transport. Boring.

Portal would be relegated to non-bombing use, yes. Getting people onto walls, around a tower, behind a wall or anything like that. Specifically if would only be used in direct combat as a withdrawal-method, the use to appear in the middle of the enemy is specifically removed.
I quite intend the change that way. Because the way I see it, that use is the centrepiece of what makes Portal so unbearably long-CD. Removing it opens the way for low-CD long-duration Portals.

Veil though, no. Friendly players stealth when using up a charge. Enemy players have all their enemies (so, your allies) become invisible for a brief moment.

Though now, thinking about “Veil” gives me a better idea:

Veil
Create an invisible barrier which prevents spotting of enemies on the opposite side. Allied players can see the Veil but cannot see enemy players on the opposite side unless they are only partially obscured. Enemy players cannot see allied players, and cannot see the Veil.
Duration: 15 seconds.
Cooldown: ~45 seconds.

^Interesting thoughts if:
- veil obstructed LOS/targeting for enemies
- enemies that run through it “phase out” of reality for a few seconds, unable to see any of our allies.

I’d like to see the base curtain duration increased to 7s, with 3s base stealth duration, and a cooldown of >60s untraited.

However I do think it should stay as a single curtain, and not several lines.