Guild Wars 2

Would you be So nice and consider this Request.

Could you completly remove Vengeful Images from this trait?
Put Phantasmal Healing in the first minor Trait.

So you would have place to give us something usefull since vengeful is useless

Why should the trait be useless?
Your phantasm will most likely get hit (depending which part of gw2 you play), and therefor retaliation will deal some damage… might not be a lot, but it is still +damage.

Eh. Vengeful used to be a lot better. Its current -abysmal- state is due to getting the retal duration sliced. Of course, retal getting its damage pruned on top of that doesn’t help, either.

At least it’s not an “on downed” trait. Those are just … insulting.

Teutos.8620:

Why should the trait be useless?
Your phantasm will most likely get hit (depending which part of gw2 you play), and therefor retaliation will deal some damage… might not be a lot, but it is still +damage.

I guess, you don’t play mesmer as main.
5 sec Retaliation: for a phantasm after summon is a joke.

Seyiwaji.4082:

Teutos.8620:

Why should the trait be useless?
Your phantasm will most likely get hit (depending which part of gw2 you play), and therefor retaliation will deal some damage… might not be a lot, but it is still +damage.

I guess, you don’t play mesmer as main.
5 sec Retaliation: for a phantasm after summon is a joke.

Your attacks are rather insulting, Teutos knows what he is saying. Please avoid non constructive comments.

Seyiwaji.4082:

5 sec Retaliation: for a phantasm after summon is a joke.

Ofc we can talk about how useful the trait is. Feel free to provide some suggestions to increase it’s effectiveness.

It is still one of the more useful traits compared to f.e. ’Disruptor’s Sustainment’.

Retaliation on Mesmer isn’t effective unless you are using Soldier’s runes and/or have a a high protection uptime via BI or chaos armor. I have a neat courtyard support build that utilizes retaliation.

I could definitely look at other traits as being more useless than this one, but instead of getting rid of it completely (which let’s be serious, is unhelpful and unrealistic to even discuss), let’s talk about potential ways it can be buffed:

• Have it work like Phantasmal Fury with 10s with an interval of 10s.
• Have it work for all illusions, and keep the duration the same. This would severely punish AOE attackers. I actually like this buff the best instead of the former one mentioned.

I wish it just made illusions deal damage when they die, like how minions deal damage with the Death Nova trait, but without the poison of course.

Teutos.8620:

Seyiwaji.4082:

5 sec Retaliation: for a phantasm after summon is a joke.

Ofc we can talk about how useful the trait is. Feel free to provide some suggestions to increase it’s effectiveness.

It is still one of the more useful traits compared to f.e. ’Disruptor’s Sustainment’.

No, it’s definitely on par with Disruptor’s Sustainment. The difference is one is an adept minor, and the other is a grandmaster major. They are both equally awful.

The retaliation obtained from 5 seconds of retaliation on summon is completely and totally worthless and inconsequential. If the trait was literally deleted, it would change nothing, because it’s already been effectively deleted.

Being the creator of the build that actually made extensive use of this trait, I have a rather unique perspective on this. I tried my hardest to make my Immortal build function after they nerfed this trait. It simply does not work, at all. If this trait did anything, I’d be able to make my build function. It doesn’t.

he was doing sarcasm. He knows they are both useless

I was wondering how much damage this trait did and would like confirmation if my math is correct.

With 2000 power, retaliation does about 350 damage per hit. A phantasm has about 3,400 hps in PVP/WvW so thats about 1 to 3 attacks to destroy the illusion.

So would total damage dealt be around 350 to 1050?

Leodon.1564:

I was wondering how much damage this trait did and would like confirmation if my math is correct.

With 2000 power, retaliation does about 350 damage per hit. A phantasm has about 3,400 hps in PVP/WvW so thats about 1 to 3 attacks to destroy the illusion.

So would total damage dealt be around 350 to 1050?

Retal is nerfed to 66% strength in wvw and pvp.

The big issue though, is that 5 seconds is roughly how much time it takes to summon, get in range, and launch the first attack. You dodge the first attack, and then cleave down the phantasm. This means that by the time anyone attacks the phantasm, the retaliation is gone.

The problem is:
If you have >2000 strength your mostly power 1 hit is enough to destroy the Phantasm (phantasm is destroyed if bitten by 1 skill)
If you have <2000 strength you may have toughness, so that your phantasm live longer, but your retaliation is so weak. That even with 2-3-4 hit would not even do 1000 damage.
This was the good part, the minor problem.

Now the biggest issue:
5 Sec on Spawn. If not killed the phantasm would surely deal his damage or being avoided. After this person only ignore the phantasm. If it lives long enough to try to attack again. They will be awarded of him and and kill it.
You know what without retail.

So instead of making a minor trait totally useless, it would be better to remove it.

Sarcasm on: better put something like phatasm get 33% damage reduce; Sarcasm off.
(if you know what i mean)

lol Suggesting that they eliminate traits completely is a waste of everyone’s time, because that’s NEVER happening. To reiterate, it would be more productive if while we pointed out its shortcomings, we came up with simple ways to buff it instead. This will help when we have an assigned forum specialist to send clear messages to the dev team.

Also, there is a way to have high power and moderate toughness. It’s called Soldier’s rune like I previously pointed out. That’s the most efficient way to run retaliation. However, soldiers runes don’t really work too well on the Mesmer class.

I, for once, support of this
BUT
hear me out, how about moving this minor trait to the minor grandmaster trait, clearly this trait deserve the same RESPECT as Disruptor’s Sustainment, imagine the possibility we can do!
remember they move Illusionists Celerity from minor trait to grandmaster, then move it again to master? surely such a broken trait as Vengeful Images deserve it’s grandmaster rank!

What needs done is the following:

• A proper looksee/rework of everything that’s been nerfed on this class. The problem is that Mesmer’s got a goodly chunk of inbuilt bugs as is; nerfing things that actually work, on top of said bugs merely screws the class further.
• Truth is, there are regards in which this can be said for all classes.

Do I believe this will actually be done?

• Nope.
• Heck, Engineers still get shafted with hobosacks … RTL on Eles is still c/d nerfed from months ago … Thief is still trait-slanted heavily towards Shadow Arts … Necros still get shafted in dungeon runs. However, we’ve got plenty of gemstore stuff