Guild Wars 2

With the horrible joke of Vengeful Images only applying to the first 5 seconds of a Phantasm’s existence I know most of us were angry and sad. Righteously so.

What is even worse?

The fact that the retaliation on Phantasms doesn’t even do DAMAGE anymore.

So yes, they went and changed the minor Trait Vengeful Images into a 5 second buff of NOTHING.

ANet, please put ANYTHING there now other then this completely useless trait that anyone going into Inspiration has to take. ANYTHING.

… why am I even kittening playing my main character anymore.

I noticed when playing my modified Immortal Mesmer build (thanks Pyro) there was a HUGE difference in the retaliation procs I was seeing. So much so that I simply put the build aside for now.

If the retaliation on phantasms is doing nothing even for the 5 seconds it is up then this would make sense as to why I was seeing virtually no retaliation procs at all.

New useless build

5 sec of buff or nothing at all.. they are about the same.. both worthlesss.. sigh.. i hope anet do plan to tweak this back to what it were..

p.s. this is a completely a pve nerf.. i wonder why.. as if mesmer aren’t weak enough in pve..

decease.3215:

5 sec of buff or nothing at all.. they are about the same.. both worthlesss.. sigh.. i hope anet do plan to tweak this back to what it were..

p.s. this is a completely a pve nerf.. i wonder why.. as if mesmer aren’t weak enough in pve..

This is mainly a PvP nerf actually. My problem with it is that it makes the trait worthless. They should have removed the trait and replaced it with something else. The current situation is just 5 wasted trait points.

Pyroatheist.9031:

decease.3215:

5 sec of buff or nothing at all.. they are about the same.. both worthlesss.. sigh.. i hope anet do plan to tweak this back to what it were..

p.s. this is a completely a pve nerf.. i wonder why.. as if mesmer aren’t weak enough in pve..

This is mainly a PvP nerf actually. My problem with it is that it makes the trait worthless. They should have removed the trait and replaced it with something else. The current situation is just 5 wasted trait points.

not even a bit.. in pvp no one attack phantasm. they always aim for mesmer. if they do attack phantasm it is usually mindless aoe. like in wvwvw.. where phatasm will die within first 5 second.

plus in spvp clone and phantasmal have much less health now.. they will likely get one or two shot anywayz.

while in pve phantasm have more health where this feat become useful..

decease.3215:

Pyroatheist.9031:

decease.3215:

5 sec of buff or nothing at all.. they are about the same.. both worthlesss.. sigh.. i hope anet do plan to tweak this back to what it were..

p.s. this is a completely a pve nerf.. i wonder why.. as if mesmer aren’t weak enough in pve..

This is mainly a PvP nerf actually. My problem with it is that it makes the trait worthless. They should have removed the trait and replaced it with something else. The current situation is just 5 wasted trait points.

not even a bit.. in pvp no one attack phantasm. they always aim for mesmer. if they do attack phantasm it is usually mindless aoe. like in wvwvw.. where phatasm will die within first 5 second.

plus in spvp clone and phantasmal have much less health now.. they will likely get one or two shot anywayz.

while in pve phantasm have more health where this feat become useful..

You fail to understand the proper usage of the trait. You force people to attack the phantasms with positioning or use the phantasmal defender to force them to hit it no matter what. Proper positioning means any aoes or cleaves will hit the phantasms as well.

Pyroatheist.9031:

decease.3215:

Pyroatheist.9031:

decease.3215:

5 sec of buff or nothing at all.. they are about the same.. both worthlesss.. sigh.. i hope anet do plan to tweak this back to what it were..

p.s. this is a completely a pve nerf.. i wonder why.. as if mesmer aren’t weak enough in pve..

This is mainly a PvP nerf actually. My problem with it is that it makes the trait worthless. They should have removed the trait and replaced it with something else. The current situation is just 5 wasted trait points.

not even a bit.. in pvp no one attack phantasm. they always aim for mesmer. if they do attack phantasm it is usually mindless aoe. like in wvwvw.. where phatasm will die within first 5 second.

plus in spvp clone and phantasmal have much less health now.. they will likely get one or two shot anywayz.

while in pve phantasm have more health where this feat become useful..

You fail to understand the proper usage of the trait. You force people to attack the phantasms with positioning or use the phantasmal defender to force them to hit it no matter what. Proper positioning means any aoes or cleaves will hit the phantasms as well.

phantasm require a target to summon.. you don’t choose where exactly it spawn. nor can you control when and where phantasm will chase to.. and more importantly.. no many people use aoe in spvp.. well in wvw there is alot, but phantom will surely die within 5 second..

also you can’t force people to attack phantom.. even if you summon phantom defender it will not force people to attack it.. it take longer to kill phantom defender then killing you directly.

plus everyone know mesmer is a master of illusion and trickery.. i doubt anyone ever foolish enough to let mesmer out of their sight.. or at least trying to…

p.s. phantom defender is not as good as you think in pve now.. it will die within 2~3 hit by attacking you directly.. which is faster and safer then turn around and give their back to mesmer..

p.s.2 oh.. another thing.. i doubt you have time to care about position in pvp.. mostly fight end in seconds.. unless you are fighting another mesmer or thief.. but then you really don’t have much clue where your enemy really is.. as for pve.. normal monster mostly use single target attack.. most do have small or big aoe.. but you you will never when they are using them. call phantom at the moment they are about to aoe is just not enough time.. it take seconds to summon them out, by the time it is already over..

Vengeful images at five seconds is pretty much useless as most of the illusions I summon can’t get aggro in that amount of time (and I don’t PvP or WvW so no, AOE is not an issue). ANet, if you think it’s too powerful in it’s old form, please yank this garbage trait and replace it with something interesting and thematic to the trait line. Right now it’s a five point trait tax and bugger all else.

@decease: It is very evident to me that you have done very little pvp on a mesmer, or at least very little in any build that utilizes phantasms.

1. With smart play, you can control where your phantasms spawn and how they move.
2. With smart play, you can force people to cleave your phantasms if they want to attack you, providing retaliation
3. Phantasmal defender takes damage from you and all your phantasms. If they hit any of those targets, they receive retaliation from the defender
4. Not sure what the point of this clause is.
5. What about it?
6. PvP is all about positioning. If you ignore it, you will lose.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@decease: It is very evident to me that you have done very little pvp on a mesmer, or at least very little in any build that utilizes phantasms.

1. With smart play, you can control where your phantasms spawn and how they move.
2. With smart play, you can force people to cleave your phantasms if they want to attack you, providing retaliation
3. Phantasmal defender takes damage from you and all your phantasms. If they hit any of those targets, they receive retaliation from the defender
4. Not sure what the point of this clause is.
5. What about it?
6. PvP is all about positioning. If you ignore it, you will lose.

1. with smart play? you are not a tank, mermser are not know to be good at avoid cc. serious i don’t think many people can afford this.. after all you never knew what your opponent will react. if you want to proof me wrong, upload a video..

2. how do you force people to cleave? izerk slash through enemy, isword jump back after each attack, iwarden never move.. ipistol, image, iwarlock is range… or you want to proof to me you have time and willing to cast these range phantasm and run toward them within 5 second and force people to cleave you? remember you only have 5 second of time..

3. idefender take 50% damage or all surrounding allys, but none of the phantasm stick to enemy close. as i list above.. unless they are using big aoe it will not cover more then one phantasm most of the time. the pitiful amount of health idefender has also make it worthless in pvp..

4. well.. you keep saying position.. true it is very important, but mostly it is how you position, how to survive before enemy get burst down. usually fight only last several second. if you have this mad skill of run to phantasm everytime within 5 second to make full use of retaliation.. upload a video.. serious i don’t think many people playing this game are capable of doing that.. or foolish enough to try that.. retaliation is not reflection.. the damage are not that powerful..

p.s. phantasm are not clone..running toward clone might confusing your enemy.. but running toward phantasm? i like to hear you explain how your “position” “smart play” work..

oh and another thing.. do you carry idefender to pvp? rarely seeing people carry them.. after all this phantasm have rather long cast time.. usually you will be dead before you sent it out… same in wvw…. in pve idefender is useful..

psssst decease before you ask for a youtube link read the signature of the guy you’re talking to. He does know what he’s talking about with regard of PvP :-)

Kvitoq.9154:

psssst decease before you ask for a youtube link read the signature of the guy you’re talking to. He does know what he’s talking about with regard of PvP :-)

he know or not i can’t say. all i know is he haven’t been playing much after this patch. vengeful image is bugged, it shows the buff but never deal any damage.. not even for five second..

also if you watch the video he uploaded, it usually take 6~10 or more second before anything attack phantasm..

p.s. his build no longer exist after this build.. hehe like to see him trying to continue immortal mesmer after this nerf

What if they pulsed retaliation on themselves – say 3s duration in intervals of 5 or 6 seconds?

I don’t know how else they could do it. At the moment, 5s is completely pointless – unless you summon them in an AoE field.

The immortal build is significantly different after this patch, yes. The retaliation was my offense, and now that is gone. The survivability of the build has not been impacted though.

The retaliation nerf was over the top. Really no need to nerf it, as really the only builds that could truly take advantage of it were high power builds that put at least 5 points into inspiration.

I don’t think it should have been touched at all, but the way it was changed was really heavy-handed. They should have at least considered swapping Chaos 15 (Illusionary Membrane) for Inspiration 5 (Vengeful Images).

I would have preferred that the moved the trait farther down like they did with Illusionists Celerity, rather than making it absolutely worthless. . . Come on Anet. What were you thinking?

decease.3215:

the pitiful amount of health idefender has also make it worthless in pvp..

How is taking ~14k of damage done to you worthless in PvP?

Mere Image.8376:

I would have preferred that the moved the trait farther down like they did with Illusionists Celerity, rather than making it absolutely worthless. . . Come on Anet. What were you thinking?

I was thinking something similar…that or swap it out for a major trait, so only specialized retal builds would use it, and it wouldn’t be an automatic in phantasm builds.

I’m literally laughing out loud at my desk reading this thread.

Decease is either a complete troll or the single most clueless Mesmer to have ever graced these forums. Without being too rude, literally every comment you’ve made about phantasms and pvp is 100% wrong. No other way about it.

Cleaving phantasms – Simply stand next to them, opponent uses a cleave attack, he hits the phantasm

iDefender – as Pyro already stated, he takes 50% of the damage for either you or your phantasms. This means if anyone attacks you or any of your phantasms they will take retaliation damage from the iDefender.

Mesmers are incredibly good at avoiding cc. In fact I’d go so far as to say that we’re one of the best classes in the game at it. Tons of stun breakers and in combat mobility. Only thing we lack is stability.

The sheer fact that you claim that all pvp fights are over in seconds shows how little you know about any form of pvp. Not everyone goes into pvp wearing pve glass cannon gear.

If you’re a troll, congrats, you got me to respond. If not, please go learn the class before you come on the forum spreading completely false information.

@ Decease: people don’t use AOE in pvp? 10/10 would ???? again. AOE condition spam is the meta the team with the most AOE condition spam in pvp IS THE WINNER! I am not sure what game you are playing or maybe you are in hotjoin/duel servers only. But seriously AOE is the deciding factor in tPVP so this nerf to vengeful images greatly affects pvp and Phantasm HP has been buffed 270% in pve i think that means the defender has like 10k base HP and he gets one shotted? What mobs are you fighting.

Pyroatheist.9031:

The immortal build is significantly different after this patch, yes. The retaliation was my offense, and now that is gone. The survivability of the build has not been impacted though.

Just means pyro needs to consider other bunker builds Jk. Your build is prolly still so survivable that you kitten people off….