Guild Wars 2

I welcome build ideas. I really don’t want to run Sword and Scepter’s confusion isn’t that good for PvE.
I appreciate tips and brainstorms.

This sorta depends on how you define viable. Will you be able to kill things and complete content? Yes. Will you be mostly a dead weight on your team? Also yes.

Pyroatheist.9031:

This sorta depends on how you define viable. Will you be able to kill things and complete content? Yes. Will you be mostly a dead weight on your team? Also yes.

By viable I mean run ascended and dungeon content well and not be dead weight on the team.

I can’t even imagine that weapon combo being viable in any game mode.

medohgeuh.4650:

I can’t even imagine that weapon combo being viable in any game mode.

It’s a good tanky phantasm build for pvp. Can also be a decent shatter setup and an aoe weaponset for Zerging.

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

This sorta depends on how you define viable. Will you be able to kill things and complete content? Yes. Will you be mostly a dead weight on your team? Also yes.

By viable I mean run ascended and dungeon content well and not be dead weight on the team.

Absolutely not. While the phantasms on both weapons are not bad, you’ll be sacrificing any possibility of good reflect utility, you’ll be doing very minimal damage outside of occasional phantasm attacks, the phantasms while decent are generally not as strong as a swordsman, and the cooldown traits for those weapons are in spots that are not taken in most good dungeon trait sets.

medohgeuh.4650:

I can’t even imagine that weapon combo being viable in any game mode.

Mightstacking boon share build, It is known.

medohgeuh.4650:

I can’t even imagine that weapon combo being viable in any game mode.

I often run a glassy GS/Staff when running in a 15+ organized group (either a 30/20/10/10/0 or 20/15/20/0/15). Support from range while doing a good amount of ranged dps with GS, and use staff for survival to mitigate the near-full glass). Works well except in the face of skill lag.

After poking around the skill tree for a couple hours, I came up more or less with something like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQJARGGJMzo3IHNjrndSKadqB-zABBZmFRjt4qIas6aYKXER1iCIiA-e
Basically spawn illusions at a fast rate and alternate between F1 and F2 shatters and while you are not shattering, stack yourself and your allies on boons and enemies on debuffs(Winds of Chaos+ Mirrorblade+Chaos Storm). Instead of relying on crit, condition damage makes up for it.

Thoughts? Critique? Optimization? Thanks!

Paul Kay.4891:

After poking around the skill tree for a couple hours, I came up more or less with something like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQJARGGJMzo3IHNjrndSKadqB-zABBZmFRjt4qIas6aYKXER1iCIiA-e
Basically spawn illusions at a fast rate and alternate between F1 and F2 shatters and while you are not shattering, stack yourself and your allies on boons and enemies on debuffs(Winds of Chaos+ Mirrorblade+Chaos Storm). Instead of relying on crit, condition damage makes up for it.

Thoughts? Critique? Optimization? Thanks!

2/2/2 boon duration runes and take boon share signet and battle sigils and use the 5 points for chaotic transferal somewhere else.

Paul Kay.4891:

After poking around the skill tree for a couple hours, I came up more or less with something like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQJARGGJMzo3IHNjrndSKadqB-zABBZmFRjt4qIas6aYKXER1iCIiA-e
Basically spawn illusions at a fast rate and alternate between F1 and F2 shatters and while you are not shattering, stack yourself and your allies on boons and enemies on debuffs(Winds of Chaos+ Mirrorblade+Chaos Storm). Instead of relying on crit, condition damage makes up for it.

Thoughts? Critique? Optimization? Thanks!

Honestly it looks pretty terrible.

Spawn illusions at a fast rate? You don’t have deceptive evasion, so the only illusion spawning you’ll be doing is from mirror blade and phase retreat, which won’t be a ‘fast rate’ by any definition.

You don’t have any damage in this build, crit or condition. You said that condition damage makes up for a lack of crit damage. What condition damage? The only condition you can reliably apply is confusion, and confusion blows chunks in PvE. As for power-based damage, you have no phantasm damage boosts and you don’t even have illusionary persona, so your shatter damage will be very low as well.

So to round it up. That build has no potential to do any damage of any form. It doesn’t apply boons effectively since all your boons are quite low base duration. It has no access to reflects, nor any damage modifiers to make those reflects do damage. Honestly, I’d kick your build from a party, because it would be utterly useless.

I can post the gs/staff build I use of you want, but its basically a glass GS clone-death build with staff for defense and support. 30/20/10/10/0, mantra heal, and as much zerker as you are comfortable with. Note that it loses potency if you have less then 3-4 people.

The whole point of gs/staff is to bomb at range with GS and then use staff for defense, kiting, and creating distance. It shines in big fights because you can drop target in a crowd, but it fails in small encounters when your opponents can track you and hone in,because your melee damage and damage mitigation are both subpar.

Viable is a very relative thing. If you’re thinking open world + living story content, then very much so. Staff+GS is one of the best setups for that, since you can go 20/20/30 with BI + CI and cause lots and lots of interrupts and spread the boons out, while GS5 causing immobilize protects you from a group of respawned trash aggroing you.

If you’re thinking dungeons, then as Pyro said no. For dungeons this’d be ~the worst setup.

Speaking of something else for a moment, Staff+GS is IMO one of the best WvW setups if you don’t want to have multiple equipment-sets lying around.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Honestly it looks pretty terrible.

Spawn illusions at a fast rate? You don’t have deceptive evasion, so the only illusion spawning you’ll be doing is from mirror blade and phase retreat, which won’t be a ‘fast rate’ by any definition.

You don’t have any damage in this build, crit or condition. You said that condition damage makes up for a lack of crit damage. What condition damage? The only condition you can reliably apply is confusion, and confusion blows chunks in PvE. As for power-based damage, you have no phantasm damage boosts and you don’t even have illusionary persona, so your shatter damage will be very low as well.

So to round it up. That build has no potential to do any damage of any form. It doesn’t apply boons effectively since all your boons are quite low base duration. It has no access to reflects, nor any damage modifiers to make those reflects do damage. Honestly, I’d kick your build from a party, because it would be utterly useless.

Fair enough – I’d like to know then – how would you go around making a Power+condition damage, GS+Staff build that works for Dungeons? Or are you completely against it?

Pwent.2639:

2/2/2 boon duration runes and take boon share signet and battle sigils and use the 5 points for chaotic transferal somewhere else.

Could you say that again, but in a way a newbie would understand? :P

I can’t speak for Pyro, but in Dungeons GS+Staff is terrible. Ofc, you will get away with it in pugs (even without being the one causing the issues) because they tend to try stand at range, exactly where you’ll be with the GS.
Any somewhat more serious dungeon party will stack at 500-600 range or in melee, where the Greatsword deals less damage than even the Scepter, and the Staff is no good damage weapon in PvE as it is due to it’s condition-reliance. The phantasm is awesome, however.

However as I said, you will be plenty fine outside of dungeons, and for open world, LS content and WvW, I’d say GS+Staff is one of the better setups around. Plus less weapons to craft, which is really helpful as a newcomer.

The rune-part: There are runes giving +boonduration as the 2/6 bonus. You can take 2 of 3 different types and stack up the duration, because between Bountiful Interrupt in Chaos, Staff in general and Signet of Inspiration you end up throwing a good amount of boons around. Helpful if they last longer.

Carighan.6758:

I can’t speak for Pyro, but in Dungeons GS+Staff is terrible. Ofc, you will get away with it in pugs (even without being the one causing the issues) because they tend to try stand at range, exactly where you’ll be with the GS.
Any somewhat more serious dungeon party will stack at 500-600 range or in melee, where the Greatsword deals less damage than even the Scepter, and the Staff is no good damage weapon in PvE as it is due to it’s condition-reliance. The phantasm is awesome, however.

However as I said, you will be plenty fine outside of dungeons, and for open world, LS content and WvW, I’d say GS+Staff is one of the better setups around. Plus less weapons to craft, which is really helpful as a newcomer.

The rune-part: There are runes giving +boonduration as the 2/6 bonus. You can take 2 of 3 different types and stack up the duration, because between Bountiful Interrupt in Chaos, Staff in general and Signet of Inspiration you end up throwing a good amount of boons around. Helpful if they last longer.

I’m not sure what’s the problem people see with Spatial Surge. I mean you can just not use it and resort to Bouncy Winds of Chaos. 234 and an optional 5 from GS takes enough time between swaps that you don’t even need to use Spatial Surge. Mirror Blade’s up each 4.75 sec with both CD reductions, that’s my “alternate” autoattack to be honest lol.

I’d welcome help to adapt GS+Staff for Dungeons.
I was thinking Interrupt-heavy build could work but It seems rather hard to pull off in a dungeon, no?

The GS haters have survived the signet patch. Somehow they don’t realize the massive change. The GS was a terrible weapon, since the aa is extremly weak in close combat.

If the GS would have the skill 1 of the normal sword, everyone would love it. And yes, you are right. You can do swap, 2, 4, heal, 4, 3, 2, swap. You will never use skill 1, and even if you do it once or twice the 4 phantasm outdamages all the single target phantasms immediately if there are even 2 targets … or more ofc.

Ppl get stuck in the old days, most of them are even short minded and only focused on their own build wich seems to be “right” and the only viable thing to play. The GS is a great weapon to open fights that end faster than a 2nd swap, it is also a good aoe option since the warden alone isn’t that awesome. Sword aa deals great damage, however swordman and duellist are pretty useless in fractales like dredge, ice, fire shaman, wall, etc. except for boss fights.

In the end you cannot say A > B, since a good mesmer should allways carry all the weapons with him/her. Adapt to the situation, don’t try to build around stuff you don’t need. However every weapon has it place. At least at the mesmer.

Greatsword auto at >900 has approximately half the DPS of the sword auto (using 0/30 or 10/30 meta builds) and the phantasm, assuming all four hits connect has 2/3rds the DPS of phantasmal swordsman.

So…

…run what you want, just make sure the lfg you join doesn’t want a speed run because running staff/gs is probably the lowest DPS you can get.

Greatsword 2 has a high active and passive damage, 3 hits like 3rd chain of sword aa and does the same stuff, 4 hits 2-4 times according to their body mass and movement, but it hits better than the swordman if there are 2+ mobs. If there aren’t it’s your own fault to use a GS. However if there are, you just won tons of dmg. You don’t have to aa.

A mesmer that does never use the GS is almost as bad as one that only uses the GS.

I actively use the GS. Even in dungeons. Only it’s the off-weapon I use when I can’t be close depending on bossfight.

That’s the whole point, the Greatsword is an awesome weapon, just not for one thing: dungeon DPS.
And do we really need to drag that topic through the mud again? I thought the Scepter-comparison (Where at <600 range, Scepter/Sword outdamages GS) was enough to convince everyone?

It’s really not a bad weapon. In fact it’s extremely good if you consider that it’s a solid~awesome weapon in all but one situation. Just use another weapon, it’s not like 20/20/30 cannot easily switch to dual-Swords + Staff for a dungeon run or two. And go back to Gs+Staff outside. Much more efficient, and you don’t need to re-trait either. Plus if you’re an asura, flying swish-swish-swish is awesome.

A lot of people have no idea what they are speaking about.
A staff/gs mesmer will and should be kicked out of every dungeon. It’s borderline useless and using gs#5 on nicely stacked mobs is like asking for it.
OP. Run whatever you want in open world. That doesn’t count. In dungeons, there is no possible way to make either of those weapons viable.

Highest close combat DPS Sword/sword Scepter/pistol it can be done in any combination. Best part is S and P can be both traited with 20 points into Dueling. Highest range GS Scepter/pistol or Sword/pistol. I like staff only for cond builds in WVW or zerg runs. Staff also very good for daily kills on low lvl maps:) IMHO no real use for it in dungeons. When i see mesmer with staff in dungeon group my first instinct is to kick him out.

The highest close combat dps is Sword/Sword + /Pistol. You don’t need a semigood scepter if there is no “must block”s.

Well it appears I have to resign from using Greatsword(because of counterproductive 1 and 5) and Staff(because of 2 and insufficient illusion-making power) in dungeons.
That’s… saddening :/
Might go Scepter+X and Scepter+X/Staff, but supposedly condition damage is bad in PvE. I’m interested to hear more about this.

I don’t really like main-hand sword, all else goes really :s.

GS 1 sucks yes, so just don’t use it. GS 5 is awesome however if you don’t use it like an idiot. Interrupting foes causes vulnerbility if you got 5 in dominion. Since not everyone plays the same way (0/30/0/25/15 = meta) it’s allways more viable or less viable. I go for 10/30/0/30/0, my personal best build, so I can make use of the huge passive damage of a few stacks vulnerbility. It’s natural selection if you get kicked by smashing enemies around with 0 brain activity. Just push them into the corner they are already standing and you’ll be fine.

Staff 2 is awesome. Staff 1 is semigood with its ø2k hits per target. It’s a good weapon for dangerious enemies or if you require a meatshield (2). 3 hits harder than anythign at 4+ conditions and therefore scales the best with power. Dwayna 25k crits are clearly just for your “D” but it shows how it works. Staff isn’t a condi weapon only at all.

In the end you MUST use the sword. It’s too amazing to ignore. Only Ele is staff only aviable in PvE. Scepter is situational like everything but sword.

Paul Kay.4891:

Well it appears I have to resign from using Greatsword(because of counterproductive 1 and 5) and Staff(because of 2 and insufficient illusion-making power) in dungeons.
That’s… saddening :/
Might go Scepter+X and Scepter+X/Staff, but supposedly condition damage is bad in PvE. I’m interested to hear more about this.

I don’t really like main-hand sword, all else goes really :s.

The reason you don’t use greatsword for single target is because it’s not particularly good at close range, but it’s a good multi-target weapon for trash clearing.

Staff is different. The phantasm on the staff is actually great. Given proper conditions, it’ll absolutely dwarf every other phantasm in terms of dps output. Unfortunately, this comes at the cost of reducing your autoattack damage to something verging on literally 0. The staff autoattack is worthless for power damage. Due to this, even the fantastic staff phantasm almost never can make up for the loss of autoattack damage.

Conditions are abysmal in PvE on any class, and they’re even worse on mesmer due to the particularities of what conditions we can apply, and how we do it.

When push comes to shove, mainhand sword is your only truly viable option. While I wouldn’t instantly kick a mesmer using conditions or camping a staff/gs set, I would make a mental note that the dungeon is now a 4-man group, and the mesmer would be the first person kicked if the going got tough.

Pyroatheist.9031:

The reason you don’t use greatsword for single target is because it’s not particularly good at close range, but it’s a good multi-target weapon for trash clearing.

Staff is different. The phantasm on the staff is actually great. Given proper conditions, it’ll absolutely dwarf every other phantasm in terms of dps output. Unfortunately, this comes at the cost of reducing your autoattack damage to something verging on literally 0. The staff autoattack is worthless for power damage. Due to this, even the fantastic staff phantasm almost never can make up for the loss of autoattack damage.

Conditions are abysmal in PvE on any class, and they’re even worse on mesmer due to the particularities of what conditions we can apply, and how we do it.

When push comes to shove, mainhand sword is your only truly viable option. While I wouldn’t instantly kick a mesmer using conditions or camping a staff/gs set, I would make a mental note that the dungeon is now a 4-man group, and the mesmer would be the first person kicked if the going got tough.

Allow me to repeat myself here – Spatial Surge is hardly used in GS-mode, it’s just a potential 3 stack bleed.

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

The reason you don’t use greatsword for single target is because it’s not particularly good at close range, but it’s a good multi-target weapon for trash clearing.

Staff is different. The phantasm on the staff is actually great. Given proper conditions, it’ll absolutely dwarf every other phantasm in terms of dps output. Unfortunately, this comes at the cost of reducing your autoattack damage to something verging on literally 0. The staff autoattack is worthless for power damage. Due to this, even the fantastic staff phantasm almost never can make up for the loss of autoattack damage.

Conditions are abysmal in PvE on any class, and they’re even worse on mesmer due to the particularities of what conditions we can apply, and how we do it.

When push comes to shove, mainhand sword is your only truly viable option. While I wouldn’t instantly kick a mesmer using conditions or camping a staff/gs set, I would make a mental note that the dungeon is now a 4-man group, and the mesmer would be the first person kicked if the going got tough.

Allow me to repeat myself here – Spatial Surge is hardly used in GS-mode, it’s just a potential 3 stack bleed.

That’s the point. It’s a bad autoattack at close range. 3 stack bleed means nothing. You can cycle through the rest of the attacks and clear trash effectively, but if you’re on a boss fight, it now means that half of your weaponset is not very effective, since you can go 2-3-4 in about 2 seconds, and then you’re sitting around looking foolish for the next 8.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

The reason you don’t use greatsword for single target is because it’s not particularly good at close range, but it’s a good multi-target weapon for trash clearing.

Staff is different. The phantasm on the staff is actually great. Given proper conditions, it’ll absolutely dwarf every other phantasm in terms of dps output. Unfortunately, this comes at the cost of reducing your autoattack damage to something verging on literally 0. The staff autoattack is worthless for power damage. Due to this, even the fantastic staff phantasm almost never can make up for the loss of autoattack damage.

Conditions are abysmal in PvE on any class, and they’re even worse on mesmer due to the particularities of what conditions we can apply, and how we do it.

When push comes to shove, mainhand sword is your only truly viable option. While I wouldn’t instantly kick a mesmer using conditions or camping a staff/gs set, I would make a mental note that the dungeon is now a 4-man group, and the mesmer would be the first person kicked if the going got tough.

Allow me to repeat myself here – Spatial Surge is hardly used in GS-mode, it’s just a potential 3 stack bleed.

That’s the point. It’s a bad autoattack at close range. 3 stack bleed means nothing. You can cycle through the rest of the attacks and clear trash effectively, but if you’re on a boss fight, it now means that half of your weaponset is not very effective, since you can go 2-3-4 in about 2 seconds, and then you’re sitting around looking foolish for the next 8.

I technically consider 2 as an autottack, given you can reduce its cd to 4.8 so the gap is not as large as you think, imo.

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

The reason you don’t use greatsword for single target is because it’s not particularly good at close range, but it’s a good multi-target weapon for trash clearing.

Staff is different. The phantasm on the staff is actually great. Given proper conditions, it’ll absolutely dwarf every other phantasm in terms of dps output. Unfortunately, this comes at the cost of reducing your autoattack damage to something verging on literally 0. The staff autoattack is worthless for power damage. Due to this, even the fantastic staff phantasm almost never can make up for the loss of autoattack damage.

Conditions are abysmal in PvE on any class, and they’re even worse on mesmer due to the particularities of what conditions we can apply, and how we do it.

When push comes to shove, mainhand sword is your only truly viable option. While I wouldn’t instantly kick a mesmer using conditions or camping a staff/gs set, I would make a mental note that the dungeon is now a 4-man group, and the mesmer would be the first person kicked if the going got tough.

Allow me to repeat myself here – Spatial Surge is hardly used in GS-mode, it’s just a potential 3 stack bleed.

That’s the point. It’s a bad autoattack at close range. 3 stack bleed means nothing. You can cycle through the rest of the attacks and clear trash effectively, but if you’re on a boss fight, it now means that half of your weaponset is not very effective, since you can go 2-3-4 in about 2 seconds, and then you’re sitting around looking foolish for the next 8.

I technically consider 2 as an autottack, given you can reduce its cd to 4.8 so the gap is not as large as you think, imo.

Well, to be blunt, you’re wrong. A damage skill once every 4.8 seconds, requiring traiting 20 into domination (which is a poor choice) is not even remotely close to an autoattack. It simply doesn’t add up.

Again, it will work. It’ll just be bad. If you’re ok with being the weak link in every party, then go for it.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Well, to be blunt, you’re wrong. A damage skill once every 4.8 seconds, requiring traiting 20 into domination (which is a poor choice) is not even remotely close to an autoattack. It simply doesn’t add up.

Again, it will work. It’ll just be bad. If you’re ok with being the weak link in every party, then go for it.

Man, you’re being depressing, no offense.
After spending(read: wasting) over 100 g on different sets of armors/weapons and rerolls I just decided I was okay with my prior build just as well(just needed a little more toughness). Just won’t be joining those elitist zerg teams. Maybe it was a mentality thing after all.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQJARGIJMfo3oUg9sTShqTd5D4G-zABBZmFRjt4qIas6aYKXER1iCIiA-e

Here’s how it looks like at the moment.
Kinda tough choice between 25 dom or 15 Chaos, I’ll see if I need either more as I go on.
Not sure if I really need the crit damage but likely I’ll just alternate between Berserker and Knight sets.
Would welcome tips for equipment/sigil/rune setup and that’ll be it for me

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Well, to be blunt, you’re wrong. A damage skill once every 4.8 seconds, requiring traiting 20 into domination (which is a poor choice) is not even remotely close to an autoattack. It simply doesn’t add up.

Again, it will work. It’ll just be bad. If you’re ok with being the weak link in every party, then go for it.

Man, you’re being depressing, no offense.
After spending(read: wasting) over 100 g on different sets of armors/weapons and rerolls I just decided I was okay with my prior build just as well(just needed a little more toughness). Just won’t be joining those elitist zerg teams. Maybe it was a mentality thing after all.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQJARGIJMfo3oUg9sTShqTd5D4G-zABBZmFRjt4qIas6aYKXER1iCIiA-e

Here’s how it looks like at the moment.
Kinda tough choice between 25 dom or 15 Chaos, I’ll see if I need either more as I go on.
Not sure if I really need the crit damage but likely I’ll just alternate between Berserker and Knight sets.
Would welcome tips for equipment/sigil/rune setup and that’ll be it for me

It’s not so much an issue of elitist teams as it is an issue of personal performance. With that build you simply will be unable to perform anywhere close to as well as someone using a good buid.

It’s not like you’ve wasted massive amounts of gold on useless gear. The greatsword has uses, and all you need to pick up is a couple swords and a focus and retrait. You’re just refusing to use an effective build, which is your personal choice of course, but don’t get mad at people if they kick you from a party for being useless.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Well, to be blunt, you’re wrong. A damage skill once every 4.8 seconds, requiring traiting 20 into domination (which is a poor choice) is not even remotely close to an autoattack. It simply doesn’t add up.

Again, it will work. It’ll just be bad. If you’re ok with being the weak link in every party, then go for it.

Man, you’re being depressing, no offense.
After spending(read: wasting) over 100 g on different sets of armors/weapons and rerolls I just decided I was okay with my prior build just as well(just needed a little more toughness). Just won’t be joining those elitist zerg teams. Maybe it was a mentality thing after all.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQJARGIJMfo3oUg9sTShqTd5D4G-zABBZmFRjt4qIas6aYKXER1iCIiA-e

Here’s how it looks like at the moment.
Kinda tough choice between 25 dom or 15 Chaos, I’ll see if I need either more as I go on.
Not sure if I really need the crit damage but likely I’ll just alternate between Berserker and Knight sets.
Would welcome tips for equipment/sigil/rune setup and that’ll be it for me

It’s not so much an issue of elitist teams as it is an issue of personal performance. With that build you simply will be unable to perform anywhere close to as well as someone using a good buid.

It’s not like you’ve wasted massive amounts of gold on useless gear. The greatsword has uses, and all you need to pick up is a couple swords and a focus and retrait. You’re just refusing to use an effective build, which is your personal choice of course, but don’t get mad at people if they kick you from a party for being useless.

I’m feeling perfectly useful so far at least =p
Geez, stop being so condescending 0o

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Well, to be blunt, you’re wrong. A damage skill once every 4.8 seconds, requiring traiting 20 into domination (which is a poor choice) is not even remotely close to an autoattack. It simply doesn’t add up.

Again, it will work. It’ll just be bad. If you’re ok with being the weak link in every party, then go for it.

Man, you’re being depressing, no offense.
After spending(read: wasting) over 100 g on different sets of armors/weapons and rerolls I just decided I was okay with my prior build just as well(just needed a little more toughness). Just won’t be joining those elitist zerg teams. Maybe it was a mentality thing after all.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQJARGIJMfo3oUg9sTShqTd5D4G-zABBZmFRjt4qIas6aYKXER1iCIiA-e

Here’s how it looks like at the moment.
Kinda tough choice between 25 dom or 15 Chaos, I’ll see if I need either more as I go on.
Not sure if I really need the crit damage but likely I’ll just alternate between Berserker and Knight sets.
Would welcome tips for equipment/sigil/rune setup and that’ll be it for me

It’s not so much an issue of elitist teams as it is an issue of personal performance. With that build you simply will be unable to perform anywhere close to as well as someone using a good buid.

It’s not like you’ve wasted massive amounts of gold on useless gear. The greatsword has uses, and all you need to pick up is a couple swords and a focus and retrait. You’re just refusing to use an effective build, which is your personal choice of course, but don’t get mad at people if they kick you from a party for being useless.

I’m feeling perfectly useful so far at least =p
Geez, stop being so condescending 0o

I’m not being condescending, I’m being blunt. Your build will do poor damage due to it being unfocused in traiting and lacking access to the top damage phantasms, as well as utilizing the 2 weapons with the lowest autoattack damage. It has no access to good reflect uptime, 0 traits in the support/utility tree of inspiration, no good mob control, and very poor boon stripping. It does all this while still managing to be squishier than a standard build due to your traiting.

Again, I’m not being condescending, I’m being blunt. Your build is bad for all the reasons I’ve stated before, you just don’t want to hear it.

do this with GS/Staff

Pyroatheist.9031:

I’m not being condescending, I’m being blunt. Your build will do poor damage due to it being unfocused in traiting and lacking access to the top damage phantasms, as well as utilizing the 2 weapons with the lowest autoattack damage. It has no access to good reflect uptime, 0 traits in the support/utility tree of inspiration, no good mob control, and very poor boon stripping. It does all this while still managing to be squishier than a standard build due to your traiting.

Again, I’m not being condescending, I’m being blunt. Your build is bad for all the reasons I’ve stated before, you just don’t want to hear it.

Bluntness is fine, just be considerate about it. I join back after 1.5 year and meet a rather stale, boring, not too fun meta; are you really surprised I wanna go for suboptimal weapon choices just to find something that’s more interesting?

I’m curious really – if You were cornered into going GS/Staff, how would you go around optimizing it for Dungeon?

hendo.1940:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CKyzb3CDHc

do this with GS/Staff

This looks honestly boring, exploit-like and nothing fun about playing at a corner stacking zones. :/
Not saying GS/Staff is more efficient, but at least it fights its enemies head on.
So what you’re telling me is I can’t play Mesmer well in Dungeons without looking like a total wuss?

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

I’m not being condescending, I’m being blunt. Your build will do poor damage due to it being unfocused in traiting and lacking access to the top damage phantasms, as well as utilizing the 2 weapons with the lowest autoattack damage. It has no access to good reflect uptime, 0 traits in the support/utility tree of inspiration, no good mob control, and very poor boon stripping. It does all this while still managing to be squishier than a standard build due to your traiting.

Again, I’m not being condescending, I’m being blunt. Your build is bad for all the reasons I’ve stated before, you just don’t want to hear it.

hendo.1940:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CKyzb3CDHc

do this with GS/Staff

This looks honestly boring, exploit-like and nothing fun about playing at a corner stacking zones. :/
Not saying GS/Staff is more efficient, but at least it fights its enemies head on.
So what you’re telling me is I can’t play Mesmer well in Dungeons without looking like a total wuss?

If that’s what you want to hear, then sure. You can’t play mesmer well in dungeons without looking like a total wuss. You heard it here first folks.

Honestly, your whole attitude about this is ridiculous. Look, if you want to play how you want, then go for it. But the facts remain that your build is bad, and you’ll be a dead weight on your team. You can’t argue otherwise, you can’t contest the facts. If you want to play with that build, you’ll simply have to accept that and move on.

You want to find some sort of way to play with your build and not be useless. There isn’t.

Pyroatheist.9031:

If that’s what you want to hear, then sure. You can’t play mesmer well in dungeons without looking like a total wuss. You heard it here first folks.

Honestly, your whole attitude about this is ridiculous. Look, if you want to play how you want, then go for it. But the facts remain that your build is bad, and you’ll be a dead weight on your team. You can’t argue otherwise, you can’t contest the facts. If you want to play with that build, you’ll simply have to accept that and move on.

You want to find some sort of way to play with your build and not be useless. There isn’t.

Bluntness is fine, just be considerate about it. I join back after 1.5 year and meet a rather stale, boring, not too fun meta; are you really surprised I wanna go for suboptimal weapon choices just to find something that’s more interesting/fun?

I’m not really contesting, just wishing things were different and poking at the skill builder in hopes something other than what’s in the meta will pop out and will work for me.

I’m curious really – if You were cornered into going GS/Staff, how would you go around optimizing it for Dungeon?

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

If that’s what you want to hear, then sure. You can’t play mesmer well in dungeons without looking like a total wuss. You heard it here first folks.

Honestly, your whole attitude about this is ridiculous. Look, if you want to play how you want, then go for it. But the facts remain that your build is bad, and you’ll be a dead weight on your team. You can’t argue otherwise, you can’t contest the facts. If you want to play with that build, you’ll simply have to accept that and move on.

You want to find some sort of way to play with your build and not be useless. There isn’t.

Bluntness is fine, just be considerate about it. I join back after 1.5 year and meet a rather stale, boring, not too fun meta; are you really surprised I wanna go for suboptimal weapon choices just to find something that’s more interesting/fun?

I’m not really contesting, just wishing things were different and poking at the skill builder in hopes something other than what’s in the meta will pop out and will work for me.

I’m curious really – if You were cornered into going GS/Staff, how would you go around optimizing it for Dungeon?

Focus on phantasm cooldowns and damage. Your personal damage will be absolute crap, so you’ll be banking 100% on phantasms. Both damage traits (domination III and inspiration 25) are a must, as well as the phantasm hp trait (inspiration V). Along with that you’ll definitely need the phantasm signet and signet of illusions to help boost your phantasm uptime. The build would look like 20/10/0/25/15 probably, with the potential of doing 10/20 in domination/dueling.

It still wouldn’t be very good, but you’d at least do a bit of damage.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

If that’s what you want to hear, then sure. You can’t play mesmer well in dungeons without looking like a total wuss. You heard it here first folks.

Honestly, your whole attitude about this is ridiculous. Look, if you want to play how you want, then go for it. But the facts remain that your build is bad, and you’ll be a dead weight on your team. You can’t argue otherwise, you can’t contest the facts. If you want to play with that build, you’ll simply have to accept that and move on.

You want to find some sort of way to play with your build and not be useless. There isn’t.

Bluntness is fine, just be considerate about it. I join back after 1.5 year and meet a rather stale, boring, not too fun meta; are you really surprised I wanna go for suboptimal weapon choices just to find something that’s more interesting/fun?

I’m not really contesting, just wishing things were different and poking at the skill builder in hopes something other than what’s in the meta will pop out and will work for me.

I’m curious really – if You were cornered into going GS/Staff, how would you go around optimizing it for Dungeon?

Focus on phantasm cooldowns and damage. Your personal damage will be absolute crap, so you’ll be banking 100% on phantasms. Both damage traits (domination III and inspiration 25) are a must, as well as the phantasm hp trait (inspiration V). Along with that you’ll definitely need the phantasm signet and signet of illusions to help boost your phantasm uptime. The build would look like 20/10/0/25/15 probably, with the potential of doing 10/20 in domination/dueling.

It still wouldn’t be very good, but you’d at least do a bit of damage.

I knew you had it in You
Thanks

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

I’m not being condescending, I’m being blunt. Your build will do poor damage due to it being unfocused in traiting and lacking access to the top damage phantasms, as well as utilizing the 2 weapons with the lowest autoattack damage. It has no access to good reflect uptime, 0 traits in the support/utility tree of inspiration, no good mob control, and very poor boon stripping. It does all this while still managing to be squishier than a standard build due to your traiting.

Again, I’m not being condescending, I’m being blunt. Your build is bad for all the reasons I’ve stated before, you just don’t want to hear it.

Bluntness is fine, just be considerate about it. I join back after 1.5 year and meet a rather stale, boring, not too fun meta; are you really surprised I wanna go for suboptimal weapon choices just to find something that’s more interesting?

I’m curious really – if You were cornered into going GS/Staff, how would you go around optimizing it for Dungeon?

hendo.1940:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CKyzb3CDHc

do this with GS/Staff

This looks honestly boring, exploit-like and nothing fun about playing at a corner stacking zones. :/
Not saying GS/Staff is more efficient, but at least it fights its enemies head on.
So what you’re telling me is I can’t play Mesmer well in Dungeons without looking like a total wuss?

You’re saying going right in the face of a boss with a one-shot mechanic and utilising the mesmer class’ mechanic (reflects) is “boring, exploit-like and nothing fun” and that it doesn’t fight them head on?

This just in, reflecting a boss is an exploit.

Reading through the whole thread, I have this quote from Nike to offer:

A good percentage of the people asking for help aren’t actually asking for help. Quite a few people create their own special snowflake builds that are quite bad (full clerics pve mesmer build or something similarly awful) and they put it up asking for “help” but meet any criticism with defensive responses. You see, they don’t want “help” they want “validation.”
They desire responses like “This looks pretty good, no changes needed,” or at harshest, “Not my cup of tea but looks pretty good for what it is.” They just want simple validation for the choices they are going to make anyway regardless of the feedback.
It’s human nature to seek validation of our choices, so I don’t blame people for seeking it. But just the same, it gets tiring seeing the same pattern over and over again so it also doesn’t surprise me when they dont get the type of responses they hoped for.

If you want to run that build that’s fine, but I hope you read LFG posts clearly before hitting the join button. If your team is oriented towards DPS, you are pretty much dead weight.

Pyro is one of the best and most expirienced mesmers around here. He’s probably the only one who I beleve something without testing it myself. And he’s right here too, most of the time :P imo

Everyone can talk good and bad about a weapon, where some say “GS aa is so bad it almost heals the enemy” and others say “GS has a great AoE potential, good for opening and trash”. Both are right. So in the end it’s the desicion of the user if it’s worth taking a weapon in a specific situation. Aslong as you try different weapons against a boss, you realize wich weapon really fits the best. Better than just using X all the time for semigood results.

The staff isn’t that bad imo. Its a good PvE boss kiting and dps weapon. You have the strongest phantasm, you have a meatshield (2) wich may be similiar to a aegis selfbuff and you got a pretty ok aoe goodforme-badforyou field.
The main reason not to take the staff seems to be the aa. But now you have to decide:

• can you simply stack and dd? well bad choice, go for a sword
• will your phants die fast, will you never reach 3 phants → maybe (!) scepter
• do you have condispammers, are there enough conditions to outdamage scepter + pistol?
• does the boss have a hold, blink, projectile you wanna evade? would it make more sense to block it? are you able to block it? scepter?
• do you really need range?
• do you have to be on long range + your phants die often? GS?

There are so many things you could add to that list. But in the end the staff has it’s place and the aa hits single target for 1-3k depending on buffs and condition applied + it deals passive damage from the might / fury you may grant. Sure you SEE better numbers at the sword, but passvie dmg still exists.

hendo.1940:

You’re saying going right in the face of a boss with a one-shot mechanic and utilising the mesmer class’ mechanic (reflects) is “boring, exploit-like and nothing fun” and that it doesn’t fight them head on?

This just in, reflecting a boss is an exploit.

the only reason u even need reflect is because you’re stacking on top of him. spamming clones to block his scorpion wire works equally well if u fight him at range. And no he doesn’t 1 shot, he 2 shots. Alphard’s attack after he pull u in with scorpion wire multihits. It may be one shot to you because you’re in zerker gear with no sustainability.

Lindbur.2537:

If you want to run that build that’s fine, but I hope you read LFG posts clearly before hitting the join button. If your team is oriented towards DPS, you are pretty much dead weight.

That just simply means his build doesn’t synergize with builds from DPS groups. It does not necessarily mean that his build is bad. Clearing dungeons with the least amount of time possible will not lead you to the meaning of life. There is more than 1 way to play and enjoy this game.

Xyonon.3987:

Pyro is one of the best and most expirienced mesmers around here. He’s probably the only one who I beleve something without testing it myself. And he’s right here too, most of the time :P imo

Everyone can talk good and bad about a weapon, where some say “GS aa is so bad it almost heals the enemy” and others say “GS has a great AoE potential, good for opening and trash”. Both are right. So in the end it’s the desicion of the user if it’s worth taking a weapon in a specific situation. Aslong as you try different weapons against a boss, you realize wich weapon really fits the best. Better than just using X all the time for semigood results.

The staff isn’t that bad imo. Its a good PvE boss kiting and dps weapon. You have the strongest phantasm, you have a meatshield (2) wich may be similiar to a aegis selfbuff and you got a pretty ok aoe goodforme-badforyou field.
The main reason not to take the staff seems to be the aa. But now you have to decide:

• can you simply stack and dd? well bad choice, go for a sword
• will your phants die fast, will you never reach 3 phants -> maybe (!) scepter
• do you have condispammers, are there enough conditions to outdamage scepter + pistol?
• does the boss have a hold, blink, projectile you wanna evade? would it make more sense to block it? are you able to block it? scepter?
• do you really need range?
• do you have to be on long range + your phants die often? GS?

There are so many things you could add to that list. But in the end the staff has it’s place and the aa hits single target for 1-3k depending on buffs and condition applied + it deals passive damage from the might / fury you may grant. Sure you SEE better numbers at the sword, but passvie dmg still exists.

I do not doubt and I really appreciate the expertise of You both. I’m just on the verge of totally abandoning this class; playing around reflects, stealth and zones is just not what I intended this character to be about :/

Let’s say I enjoy ranged play more than melee play, even though I’m positive it’s lesser damage than melee sword. Sadly Arenanet didn’t heed Mesmer’s call for a main-hand pistol(yet?), would run that so much if that were possible =p

3 Zerkers for AoE and 3 Warlocks for 1v1 is what I was aiming at, with bouncing winds of chaos and Mirrorblades in between.
I’d rather take it like a man than play around with reflects which isn’t Feedback, even if it would take a while longer.
As for condition spams – I considered working around winds of chaos + chaos storm + bleeds from precision and the “when killed” traits if that would be insufficient; Debilitating Dissipation(Bleed/Vuln/Weakness), Crippling Dissipation(Cripple), Confusing Combatants(Confusion) are something I had in mind, too. Not sure if those apply if the illusions and phantasms are merely “shut down”.

Do I have to be in ranged distance? No, I don’t have to, hence the bounces =] – do I wanna have the option? Yes.
I could try Scepter + Pistol + Staff/GS if that’d work, I really just am against using Main-hand sword and Off-hand Focus.

I see all this talk about how GS #1 is so bad, but you guys are not considering that keeping your distance keeps you alive (in some boss fights/most world bosses)

Alive DPS > Dead DPS

If you ask me, the best set you could carry for dungeons is GS + Sword/* just keep swaping pistol/focus acording to the situation, but having a GS is always good, also staff is great for soloing subject alpha from COE

All mesmers weapons are good but use is situational and you have to use different armors trinkets builds to use weapons with maximum efficiency. For example i would go staff GS in dire armor on zerg run and collect a lot of bags but if i see mesmer in any stacking Dungeon runs using same set i’d say he is an idiot.
I always have all weapons in my inventory and change it as well as skills accordingly.
When i run with zerg i use mantras veil Massinvis GS and Staff. Solo i can go full zerk with GS Sword/pistol or Scepter/pistol Sword/Sword and use mirror images blink and decoy. No such thing as best weapon set or bad weapon set. All depends on a build and things you do.
What Pyro was trying to explain here with your build and armor set weapons you choose are not being used with maximum efficiency. Staff can be very good weapon for medium to high cond. builds but for someone in Zerk armor it is waste.
Why do you even ask other ppl opinion and then start kittening match when ppl give you their opinion based on a lot of experience.

Ptolemy.5086:

Why do you even ask other ppl opinion and then start kittening match when ppl give you their opinion based on a lot of experience.

Sorry if you had that impression, I’m just trying to work around the meta in a reasonable manner and make the most well-rounded build for dungeons/pvp/wvw/pve :p

Ptolemy.5086:

What Pyro was trying to explain here with your build and armor set weapons you choose are not being used with maximum efficiency. Staff can be very good weapon for medium to high cond. builds but for someone in Zerk armor it is waste.

I’m aware of that; I wasn’t aiming for cond damage though as much as landing as many types of conditions so Phantasmal Warlock can do most damage.

So far I’m thinking of either going for condition damage+toughness for a pure condition damage build(only solo I guess :S) or Power precision toughness and just use enmasse conditions for strong Warlocks. I’m not trying power + precision + crit damage as it’s more 1h Sword oriented.

Also, isn’t Zerker gear about to be nerfed :p?

Paul Kay.4891:

Sorry if you had that impression, I’m just trying to work around the meta in a reasonable manner and make the most well-rounded build for dungeons/pvp/wvw/pve :p

This is a horrible idea, but I see people trying to do it all the time. Dungeons and WvW are massively different game modes, and they absolutely require different builds. PvP doesn’t even use the same gear…so yeah. If you try to make a build that works well in both WvW and dungeons, you will fail miserably. It doesn’t take much time to retrain and swap gear, so do that instead of being lazy and useless in both situations.