Guild Wars 2

Current list of underpowered skills:

• Mind Stab
• Chaos Armor * useless in PvE
• Phantasmal Mage

• Mimic
• Veil * to be discussed
• Mantra of Pain * to be discussed
• Signet of Midnight (passive) * to be discussed
• Signet of Inspiration (passive)
• Moa Morph * to be discussed

Current list of underpowered traits:

• Wastrel’s Punishment (Domination 25)
• Rending Shatter (Domination IV) * anyone uses this?
• Confusing Enchantments (Domination VIII) * to be discussed

• Protected Mantras (Dueling VI)

• Chaotic Revival (Chaos I)
• Retaliatory Demise (Chaos VI)

• Vengeful Images (Inspiration 5) * useless in PvE
• Restorative Illusions (Inspiration XII)

• Masterful Reflection (Illusion IV) * anyone uses this?
• Dazzling Glamours (Illusion VIII)
• Blinding Befuddlement (Illusion IX)

Special list:

• Interrupt builds on defiant mobs

How this works:
I started with the full list of skills/ traits and crossed out (removed) all those I think which were actively used by Mesmers for PvE/ PvP/ WvW.

Of course, it started by myself and I use my build and not everyone’s. So please name a skill/ trait to be crossed out or added to the lists with a small explanation and I’ll edit the post accordingly.

reserved … (15 char)

Retaliatory shield works quite well with PU builds since you can proc tons of aegis there fore tons of retal

Nretep.2564:

• Mind Stab (Is this GS3? If yes – yes)
• Chaos Armor (Definitly – it should work like a self Chaos Storm (boons))
• Phantasmal Mage (Longer Durations, but pretty ok atm)

• Mimic (No, this skill is kittening awesome! Should grant Stability tought)
• Veil (Too long CD, doesnt last long enough)
• Signet of Midnight (passive) (Yes, weak)
• Signet of Inspiration (passive) (Not bad, nor strong. Just ok for sharing stolen might stacks)

Current list of underpowered traits:
Wiki blocked here – can’t check them ^^

@jportell
ok, removed it.

@Xyonon
You don’t need to comment my current list. Better tell us which (of the remaining ones) you think are not underpowered.

Is pMage actually been used ? Not as “well, I gotta summon a phantasms and have the torch for Prestige”, but as “the phantasm might be worth to get the torch”.
Mimic generally is nice, but the current implementation is just weak. Same with Veil.

I use the signet of midnight for exploring, but 10% boon duration is still too weak (there’s just no other skill for exploring, except blink). I also use it for the blind effect at jade maw.

Signet of inspiration’s passive is just bad. Far from effective or reliable. You only get this for its active effect, which is not the point of signets.

Mimic weak?? Do you even know how it works?! If I do the grawl or harpy fractale for example, you can just sit there and laught. If it only would grant stability … The first attack hurts but thats ok compared to its power. It should just not be interrupted by knockdowns. But blocking and reflecting everything for 4? 5? seconds is defenitly not weak.

The Torch is just for PvP but pretty ok too. The talk about the signets – yes, totally agree.

I think we have to keep in mind that some traits are just for specific purposes. Also some adept traits are not that game changing. But they’re only adept traits for a reason. Same goes for minors. Having that in mind:

Nretep.2564:

Current list of underpowered skills:

• Mind Stab
  Disagree. Overall GS performance is fine and Mind Stab has its niche purpose.
• Chaos Armor
  Agree
• Phantasmal Mage
  Agree

• Mimic
  Agree
• Veil
  Agree. Super high CD and super low stealth duration…
• Signet of Midnight (passive)
  Disagree. Pretty nice for PU and boon sharing.
• Signet of Inspiration (passive)
  Agree

Current list of underpowered traits:

• Wastrel’s Punishment (Domination 25)
  Agree. Idea is nice but Mesmer stuns/dazes are too short to profit.
• Rending Shatter (Domination IV)
  Disagree. It’s boring but can be okay for shatter builds.
• Confounding Suggestions (Domination XII)
  Situational, but disagree. Have a look at the Mindcrush build.

• Confusing Combatants (Dueling 25)
  Disagree. Pretty nice with DE or scepter.
• Retaliatory Shield (Dueling III)
  Partly disagree. Pretty good for PU builds.
• Protected Mantras (Dueling VI)
  Agree

• Illusionary Membrane (Chaos 15)
  Totally disagree. I love love love this trait. So many synergies.
• Chaotic Revival (Chaos I)
  Agree. Feels like a trait which was created to plug a hole.
• Retaliatory Demise (Chaos VI)
  Agree. Could aswell just be the flat damage increase all the other classes receive.
• Cleansing Inscriptions (IX)
  Party disagree. Have a look at the Evasive Signet build.

• Vengeful Images (Inspiration 5)
  Disagree. It is okay for an adept minor trait.
• Vigorous Revelation (Inspiration III)
  Disagree. Nice when running a supportive shatter build.
• Restorative Illusions (Inspiration XII)
  Agree

• Dazzling Glamours (Illusion VIII)
  Agree. Should be on cast and when entering/exiting or even pulsing per second.
• Blinding Befuddlement (Illusion IX)
  Agree. Stacks are too low. ICD is too high. Could also replace Confusing Enchantments in the Domination line to synergize with the torch.

How this works:
I started with the full list of skills/ traits and crossed out (removed) all those I think which were actively used by Mesmers for PvE/ PvP/ WvW.

Of course, it started by myself and I use my build and not everyone’s. So please name a skill/ trait to be crossed out or added to the lists with a small explanation and I’ll edit the post accordingly.

I would like to add:

Confusing Enchantments
It is way too weak the way it is. Either increase the stacks. Or make it several stacks torment which would make much more sense on the enter/exit effect. Or make it pulse 1 stack of confusion while being inside the glamour.

In general, I feel that most traits of Mesmers are fine. I see a way bigger issue in how they are distributed across trait lines. Some stuff just doesn’t make any sense.

agreed, the distribution is pretty bad and prevents a lot of builds from happening. mantra traits for example are all over the place.

@Xaylin
yeah, adept traits were meant to be weaker than master’s or grandmaster’s. But this is a list of traits “never” been used by any build. I don’t know, if the devs implemented a tool for them to analyze the traits globally to see how often they are used, so this thread is meant to point them out.

The three weapon skills and the minor traits are forced, so they are an exception. But for all other skills/ traits, you have the ability to choose them or not.

To comment your … comments:

• So you use the signet of midnight to have your PU boons last 10% longer ? 3.3s instead of 3s ? Don’t you think it deserves at least + 17% ?
• I always thought that 3s protection every 15s is pretty much useless.
• Vengeful Images (and again a forced one …) was nice before, when phants refreshed their retal. But by one of the later patches it only works for 5 seconds. Barely anyone attacks them in that interval. I’ll keep it open for now, but also keep it in mind.
• Vigorous Relevations has a nice conecpt and is probably not suited in this list (indeed), but comparing it to any other inspiration adept trait, do you think anyone uses it?
• Confusing Enchantments … well, I thought some mesmers use it.

Editing list now …

@selan
well, mantras are in inspiration and dueling. The only exception is grandmaster domination. That’s a very peculiar trait and build (due to placement). I wouldn’t mind moving it into dueling But that’d help my healing mantra (and stability), but it’d destroy my MoP healing.

Xyonon.3987:

Mimic weak?? Do you even know how it works?! If I do the grawl or harpy fractale for example, you can just sit there and laught. If it only would grant stability … The first attack hurts but thats ok compared to its power. It should just not be interrupted by knockdowns. But blocking and reflecting everything for 4? 5? seconds is defenitly not weak.

The Torch is just for PvP but pretty ok too. The talk about the signets – yes, totally agree.

It is not bad per se. Its supposed core mechanic – the mimic – does not do its job, though. You almost got no control over which projectile you will be able to reflect back because of the fast paced fights. It is quite likely you will end up echoing an auto attack. Wheee! You might take Mimic for melee block or ranged reflect. But in this area it can be replaced by many other traits and skills. Mimic also comes with the downside of doing nothing while blocking.

Need melee block?

• Blurred Frenzy (very common)
• Distortion (long CD but available to everyone)

Need reflect?

• Mirror
• Feedback
• Masterful Reflection

Besides that, Decoy and Blink can also serve the same purpose – avoiding damage – while offering other nice effects (stealth for PU and disengaging or mobility).

I would prefer something like the following. It would make for some interesting gameplay:
_________________________________________________________________
Mimic
Passiv buff, expires when hit, 4s duration.
Triggers 2s Distortion when hit by a projectile. Activates Echo.

Echo
Echo back an attack based on the class which triggered Echo (see steal of thieves). E.g. Phoenix (Elementalist), Choking Gas (Thief), Static Shot (Engineers), Orb of Light (Guardian), Dark Path (Necro), Point Blank Shot (Ranger) and Arcing Arrow (Warrior).
_________________________________________________________________

Nretep.2564:

To comment your … comments:

• So you use the signet of midnight to have your PU boons last 10% longer ? 3.3s instead of 3s ? Don’t you think it deserves at least + 17% ?
• I always thought that 3s protection every 15s is pretty much useless.
• Vengeful Images (and again a forced one …) was nice before, when phants refreshed their retal. But by one of the later patches it only works for 5 seconds. Barely anyone attacks them in that interval. I’ll keep it open for now, but also keep it in mind.
• Vigorous Relevations has a nice conecpt and is probably not suited in this list (indeed), but comparing it to any other inspiration adept trait, do you think anyone uses it?
• Confusing Enchantments … well, I thought some mesmers use it.

Signet of Midnight
You are missing the big picture here. Many Mesmer boons got a duration of 3s (Chaos Armor, Chaos Storm, Illusionary Membrane, PU). Even with 30 Chaos they will be stuck at 3.9s. So you either need Runes or the Signet of Midnight.

Illusionary Membrane
3s protection is short. But it is almost guaranteed to trigger. You will get Regeneration at 75% health. You might get Regeneration through Bountiful Interruption or PU. You might get Regeneration through allies or phantasms. While its duration is pretty short, it is an almost guaranteed 33% damage reduction for 3s out of 15s.

Vengeful Images
Yeah, it got nerfed. But at least in PvP and WvW your Phantasms will be hit. Maybe not on purpose. But by area effects. They are likely to die (shatter, damage). You will have to recast them anyway. I think the 5s are okay for a minor.

Vigorous Relevations
Well… what would you pick if you ran a shatter build? Glamour Mastery is great. But only if running many glamours. But I do see many people running manipulation skills in shatter builds. If you don’t go for 5 in Duelling this is the only way of getting reliable vigor. And it is for your whole group.

Confusing Enchantments
Why would you ever run this? For 1 stack confusion? Maybe for tagging in zerg fights… but seriously… it is useless otherwise.

I understand what you’re talking about and I have to agree. But how about somthing like you said but a kittenanged:

Mimic
Passiv buff, expires when hit, 4s duration.
When hit by a projectile, triggers: Absorbs Projectiles for 2 sec and also blocks attacks for 2 sec. Echo enabled (like it is now).

Echo
Echo back with a temporary phantasm that uses all the skills that you have been hit with. Instead of simply reflecting projectiles, you can absorb attacks from 3 enemies and SHOOP DA WHOOP it on one target. It dies after this attack (2 sec). Doesn’t require a illusion slot. Or maybe it should and shatters afterward. Or it’s simply you that does the SHOOP DA WHOOP

What do you think?

Chaos armor is pretty usefull in pvp, not so much in pve. Same with all auras, you have to actually get hit for them tot ake effect, and that just doesnt work in pve :/.

Veil is pretty usefull fro zergs or PU builds.

The signet of inspiration passive doesnt do much, but then again, no one takes it for the passive :P. Better would be if it granted the random boon to nearby allies, and if it were 2 boons instead of 1.

Rending shatter is used by some, but its raelly bad compared to how other professions can stack vulnerability.

Protected mantrasis OK. It gives 400 toughness to you And clones/phantasms. Its usefull in mantra healing builds, but other than that is isnt.
Maybe it would be better if it gave protection instead? I was thinking 4 seconds after charging it.

Chaotic revival and reliatory demise are horrible, but i have a suggesiton that may make it used sometimes.
Merge them, so we get retaliation when we go down and chaos armor whenwe get up. Also, make deception ground targeted with this trait ^__^.

Vengefull images is useless after the nerf.

Restorative illusions doesnt do anything. It would be much more usefull if the heals were AOE!

Vigorous revelation gives perma aoe vigor ina support build. Its definitely not weak :P.

@Xaylin
As I said in the OP. I want to filter out “completely” unused traits and skills. While weapon skills and minor traits are the exceptions, I accept “any” reasoning to change the list. Because if you say, that you use the trait or know others that do, it’s not “completely unused” anymore.

So even when commenting your reasonings, I still removed the traits (and added ConEnch).

Yet, I still don’t completely agree with the 10% boon duration of signet of midnight. Sure, it increases your boon duration, but you don’t it for the 10%, you use it because nothign else fits, right? Choosing the “most favorable of the worst” is not “free of choice” in my opinion. And instead of 3.9s boons, they’ll become 4.2s boons. You could also use foods, giver’s armor or runes.
You need two Superior Runes to get + 15% boon duration, but
you need 5 Superior runes (or 9 Orbs) to get 183 (or 180) Condition damage.
I think the signet deservers at least 17.5% boon duration (round it to 20%).

Vengeful Images seems to be a PvP trait. I’ll flag it as such. They really need to triple its damage in PvE and it might actually do something in PvE.

[ Edit ]
I updated the list according to comments.

But I’d also like to say, that you shouldn’t mix “useless” and “underpowered”. Some skills/ traits may be useless, but I also wanted to list underpowered ones.
Personally I think that 2s stealth at 90s CD is horribly underpowered. But as I understand the posters here, it’s still acceptable …

Nretep.2564:

@Xaylin
As I said in the OP. I want to filter out “completely” unused traits and skills. While weapon skills and minor traits are the exceptions, I accept “any” reasoning to change the list. Because if you say, that you use the trait or know others that do, it’s not “completely unused” anymore.

So even when commenting your reasonings, I still removed the traits (and added ConEnch).

I got that. I think it is important to discuss the WHY, though. Otherwise people will keep adding and deleting the same traits over and over. It has to be understandable why a trait is perceived to be okay or not. I am just stating my personal opinion and others might disagree.

Nretep.2564:

Yet, I still don’t completely agree with the 10% boon duration of signet of midnight. Sure, it increases your boon duration, but you don’t it for the 10%, you use it because nothign else fits, right? Choosing the “most favorable of the worst” is not “free of choice” in my opinion. And instead of 3.9s boons, they’ll become 4.2s boons. You could also use foods, giver’s armor or runes.
You need two Superior Runes to get + 15% boon duration, but
you need 5 Superior runes (or 9 Orbs) to get 183 (or 180) Condition damage.
I think the signet deservers at least 17.5% boon duration (round it to 20%).

Vengeful Images seems to be a PvP trait. I’ll flag it as such. They really need to triple its damage in PvE and it might actually do something in PvE.

Im fine with you disagreeing.

Yes, there is food. So the Signet might be more important for PvP.

Yes, you can achieve the same boon duration by using only 2 Runes. But it will keep you from getting any 6th effect on runes which sometimes are very strong (e.g. Hoelbrack or Lyssa). For getting condition damage you could as well just use Sigils of Battle (3 stacks of 20s might on weapon swap, 5 stack being 175 condition damage).

The additional boon duration is so important because, for example, 3.9s Regeneration to my knowledge equals 3s Regeneration as long as the duration is not refreshed. Please correct me if I’m wrong. This means you will lose quite a chunk of your actual +boon duration if you do not reach the full next second. 30% boon duration becomes 0%. Because most Mesmer boons are stacked randomly, stacking duration by reapplying boons – besides maybe Regeneration in certain specs – is difficult. Therefore, having 35% boon duration is very important for all your 3s boons. Keeping this in mind, the 10% of the signet are very helpful.

I would not mind them being changed to 15% or 20%, of course. It won’t add up to an additional second for your 3s boons though. And you won’t be having many boons when not speccing in Chaos anyway. Essentially, the number on the signet would be bigger. The benefit is questionable, though.

Alissah.9281:

Chaos armor is pretty usefull in pvp, not so much in pve. Same with all auras, you have to actually get hit for them tot ake effect, and that just doesnt work in pve :/.

I don’t think that the on hit part is the problem. I feel like that the actual skills should have an advantage of the effects applied through combos (leap or blast). Especially, when looking at that horribly high CD.

@Signet of Midnight
The exact mechanics of fractions of seconds for pulsing consitions/ boons have yet to be found out (for players). And duration stacking conditions/ boons just extend this issue.

I’ve even read that a 3.6s bleed ticks four times – always. This disregards both current theories and creates a fourth. (Ignoring duration stacking)

1. 3.x second bleed = 3s bleed
2. general 1s tick counter on the first tick-based boon/ condition checking for current boons/ conditions.
3. fractions will be rounded to the nearest full second

and for duration stacking tick-based effects, there’re even more possibilities. If 3.9s of regeneration equals 3s regeneration, will 2x 3.9s = 2x 3s (6s) regeneration, 2x 3.9s = 7.8s (7s) regeneration or 2x 3.9s = 2x 4s (8s)? What happens when you stack from different sources ?
How does regenerating mist (engineer’s tool belt with healing sentry) cause two stacks of regeneration?

But to generalize it for boon duration:
The only tick-based boon is regeneration. Is it worth to get a utility skill for that?

Nretep.2564:

@Signet of Midnight
The exact mechanics of fractions of seconds for pulsing consitions/ boons have yet to be found out (for players). And duration stacking conditions/ boons just extend this issue.

I’ve even read that a 3.6s bleed ticks four times – always. This disregards both current theories and creates a fourth. (Ignoring duration stacking)

1. 3.x second bleed = 3s bleed
2. general 1s tick counter on the first tick-based boon/ condition checking for current boons/ conditions.
3. fractions will be rounded to the nearest full second

and for duration stacking tick-based effects, there’re even more possibilities. If 3.9s of regeneration equals 3s regeneration, will 2x 3.9s = 2x 3s (6s) regeneration, 2x 3.9s = 7.8s (7s) regeneration or 2x 3.9s = 2x 4s (8s)? What happens when you stack from different sources ?
How does regenerating mist (engineer’s tool belt with healing sentry) cause two stacks of regeneration?

But to generalize it for boon duration:
The only tick-based boon is regeneration. Is it worth to get a utility skill for that?

I recently tested with staff burns, and if true the “3.6—>4s bleed” effect doesn’t apply there. A 1.5s burn can tick twice, but usually doesn’t. A 1.9s still ticks only once every now and then. Testing method was a single maxrange (=no bounce) autoattack on a golem, with varying amounts of +cond/burn duration.

The most reasonable explanation would be a central condition timer on each entity, activated as early as upon first entering combat, which ticks in 1-second intervals. If true leftover duration fractions would represent the probability of ticking an additional time, which would make short pulsing durations extremely unreliable but not entirely wasted.

@OP can we add scepter autoattack 1+2 to the list or is that accepted as being a roundabout recharge time on phase 3 clone generation?

Also, it might be a good idea to clearly split off mode-specific issues, for example Confusion is worthless in PvE period. As are interrupt-focused builds as anything actually worth interrupting has Defiant stacks. Meanwhile illusions are worthless in ZvZ except for Clone Death traits.

So nobody knows for sure, I guess?

Duration stacking: burn, poison, chill, protection, regeneration, cripple, immobilize (after patch), weakness and aegis. Those should add up when reapplied. However, Mesmer have trouble with reapplying the boons because of their randomness.

Intensity stacking: bleed, vulnerability, confusion and torment. Here it always should be: Either get the extra second or just forget about it.

Regenerating Mists results in 6s Regeneration.

Related stuff I tested in the Mist:
_________________________________________________________________
Bleeds

• Sharper Images (5s bleeds on crit)
• Illusionary Swordsman

Scenario A: 10% condition duration (10 pts in Domination)
Scenario B: 20% condition duration (10 Domination, Lyssa Runes)
Scenario C: 25% condition duration (10 Domination, Centaur Runes)
Scenario D : 30% condition duration (15 Domination, Centaur Runes)
Scenario E: 35% condition duration (20 Domination, Centaur Runes)
Scenario F: 40% condition duration (…)

Scenario A resulted in 5 bleed ticks.
Scenario B (math: 6s bleed), C (math: 6.25s bleed), D (math: 6.5s bleeds), E (math: 6.75s bleeds) resulted in 6 ticks. Scenario F resulted in 7 ticks.

I didn’t test stacking behaviour because that would be hard to monitor without recordning it. Which I do not know how to do.

Regeneration

• Phantasmal Healing (3s Regeneration when close to the phantasm)
• Illusionary Swordsman

Scenario A.1: 30% boon duration (30 in Chaos), apply boon and leave range.
Scenario A.2: 30% boon duration (see above) and stay in the range of the phantasm
Scenario B.1: 40% boon duration (Chaos and Runes), apply boon and leave range
Scenario B.2: 40% boon duration (see above) and stay in the range of the phantasm

Scenario A.1 resulted in 3s regenation. Could not count ticks though.
Secnario A.2 increased the second regeneration to 4s and so on.
Scenario B.2 resulted in 4s regeneration.
Scenario B.2 resulted in 4s regeneration the first/second pulse but increased to 5s later on.

So 2 × 3.9s Regeneration would equal 7.8 Regeneration which equals 7s Regeneration. And that’s the moment you suddenly lose a huge amount of your boon duration if Regeneration is not reapplied in time.
_________________________________________________________________

As I said: Getting 35% boon duration is important for 3s boons if you can’t reapply them. This might be no concern for Aegis because you will be hit anyway. But you should think about it when using Regeneration or Protection.

Xaylin.1860:

You might take Mimic for melee block or ranged reflect. But in this area it can be replaced by many other traits and skills.

Just a reminder: mimic combo reaaally well with retaliatory shield. 4s of block gets you a lot of retaliation that no other mesmer block can rival.

Veil is actually more than 2 seconds of stealth on a huge cooldown!

You can jump in the veil to reapply stealth, 4seconds.

With prismatic understanding you get 6 seconds.

Veil has infinite uses during the duration. You can potentially stealth a zerg of 5000 people (assuming you dont crash and manage to activate veil)

You can do other things while jumping(like summon phantasms, mantra healing or just thinking what to do next).

… On a huge cooldown

The skill Chaos Armor is really lackluster if you look at it that way. A 35 second cooldown for something you could do with a 6 second cooldown phase retreat :/.

I really prefer the old version of the skill that instantly gave 4s protection >_<. Most of the times i simply forget to use chaos armor in a fight….

Confusing enchantments is amazing when used with a normal shatter build in raid (20-20-0-0-30). I’ve even tried to see what dps is better by using staff and rune of perplexity with rabit/carrion gears to get the confusion stacks back up again.
I’d say it gets pretty close, if not the same dps as a power shatter build.

Though next patch with the mantras builds probably gonna switch to 10-30-0-0-30 in zerg fights. GvG i’d say 20-20-0-0-30 will still be the best.

doesn’t every mesmer who played wvw in zerg know the 20 0 0 20 30 glamour confusion build?

here it is

easy to play just cast nullfield and feedback in enemy zerg and veil in front of your own when the zergs are rushing into each other

posted because domination VIII is the core of this build (op trait)

You mean the old overnerfed glamour spec?

As I said: It is nice for zerg tagging. You won’t kill ANYONE with that trait set up, though. It is far from usefull in ANY other set up than brainless zerging. You can get the same effect by just dropping Chaos Storm.

Photoloss.4817:

[…]
The most reasonable explanation would be a central condition timer on each entity, activated as early as upon first entering combat, which ticks in 1-second intervals. If true leftover duration fractions would represent the probability of ticking an additional time, which would make short pulsing durations extremely unreliable but not entirely wasted.

let’s leave the details on your new thread.

Again, thanks for testing. But in this thread the + 10% boon duration were discussed, which is not (yet) in that thread. Most likely the tick counter will also affect regeneration, but that meany you need conditions on yourself to get more regeneration ticks.

Photoloss.4817:

@OP can we add scepter autoattack 1+2 to the list or is that accepted as being a roundabout recharge time on phase 3 clone generation?

Also, it might be a good idea to clearly split off mode-specific issues, for example Confusion is worthless in PvE period. As are interrupt-focused builds as anything actually worth interrupting has Defiant stacks. Meanwhile illusions are worthless in ZvZ except for Clone Death traits.

Scepter #1 is weak, but not underpowered.
But I’ll add interrupt builds/ traits for boss fights.

Xaylin.1860:

As I said: Getting 35% boon duration is important for 3s boons if you can’t reapply them. This might be no concern for Aegis because you will be hit anyway. But you should think about it when using Regeneration or Protection.

That’s why my Guardian uses 4 Giver’s armors. But well personal thing.

Elidath.5679:

Xaylin.1860:

You might take Mimic for melee block or ranged reflect. But in this area it can be replaced by many other traits and skills.

Just a reminder: mimic combo reaaally well with retaliatory shield. 4s of block gets you a lot of retaliation that no other mesmer block can rival.

That makes the trait pretty strong, not mimic itsself. And I already removed the trait.

Alissah.9281:

Veil is actually more than 2 seconds of stealth on a huge cooldown!

You can jump in the veil to reapply stealth, 4seconds.

With prismatic understanding you get 6 seconds.

Veil has infinite uses during the duration. You can potentially stealth a zerg of 5000 people (assuming you dont crash and manage to activate veil)

Assuming you get PU, 3s stealth has uses, but 2s is a waste. I always thought that stealth doesn’t add duration, so I didn’t know the “walking through twice”. But walking through twice costs you at least 1 second, so you’re at a lengthend casttime and “only” 5s stealth with PU.

So you think the skill is acceptable (or just a bit weak) and not horribly underpowered?

My top-5 of things which need some help:

1. Phantasmal Mage. It’s not that he’s entirely useless, rather the short confusion duration coupled with the short retribution duration coupled with the low direct damage and the high CD make him very meh. I’d be ok if he had a rather short CD, say, 15s base. That’d be ok with me.
2. Moa Morph. Single-target, long CD, relatively weak effect. Plus it doesn’t truly fit in with anything, although it is the ultimate interrupt, but not on such a long CD. It’s hilarious, but power-wise underwhelming.
3. Mantra of Pain. Only used for it’s no-CD nature to fire up Mantra-charge traits. On it’s own, the damage is too low and not condensed enough to be a viable alpha or finisher.
4. Rending Shatter. Vulnerability AE? Awesome! 1-4 stacks of it, killing clones and Phantasms in the process, on the same slot as +20% Mind Wrack damage? Noooot so awesome.
5. Masterful Reflection. So odd that it sounds so awesome, and then only works on the skill Distortion, not on the effect Distortion. IMO, apply Distortion (the effect) to a few more thinks (Blurred Frenzy should really have it, IMO), then make this a Grandmaster or at least Master trait and make it affect all Distortion.

@Carighan

1. Already in the list.
2. I’ll add it as ‘discussable’, but I never thought of it as “underpowered” kitten many players complain about it to be overpowered.
3. I forgot about it. It has great synergy with Restorative Mantra’s, but I didn’t “accept” Mimic for the same reason. While I do think the skill itsself is weak, but still not underpowered. I clearly see its damage when fighting single mobs. But I’ll add it as ‘discussable’.
4. Already in the list.
5. I thought some mesmers use it, but I’ll add it for now.

• mantra of pain is very usefull for healing. Its not usefull in many builds, but definitely not useless.
• Masterfull reflection is completely useless atm. A fun change would be: "distortion and blur grant reflection, and all reflected projectiles cause 4s confusion.
• A suggestion for the trait that confuses when leaving a glsmour: “glamours pulse cripple and torment every second”.
  It would punish people for trying to move out, and much better than a single confusion stack does :P.