Guild Wars 2

as title says .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByEA8NCm9ZQ

he spent half the time explaining how core mesmer works and still failed to understand core mesmer or mirage .

i had to explain every single time how wrong wp is when people said 2s burst for 30 stack confusion op! (sometimes its 40 stacks or 50 stacks lol)

he tends to be too positive for gw2 but this is just too much misleading when he said 3 stacks of torment that lasts 5s is lots of condition from axe 2 , or mirage has very interesting utilities … (which are 3 teleport , 1 dodge roll 1 over time heal , all of them are dull and useless ) and so on .

and he kept talking about how awesome mirage is for fancy phants .

funniest part is when he talked about illusionary ambush .

he can be positive but he could update the correct information . not hide all those downsides (which are not number problems ) behind visual effects.

He explained in the video, it’s not a review. It’s more of an introduction about the Mirage. He knows that the Mirage has its problems and he’s not there to address it or call them out. He’s just there to introduce the Elite Spec and advertise it. And of course to advertise it he needs to show every trait and Utility and what’s good with all of them.

Refia Montes.3205:

He explained in the video, it’s not a review. It’s more of an introduction about the Mirage. He knows that the Mirage has its problems and he’s not there to address it or call them out. He’s just there to introduce the Elite Spec and advertise it. And of course to advertise it he needs to show every trait and Utility and what’s good with all of them.

but still some info are just incorrect . like i said , many things he talked about simply do not work that way . like illusionary ambush . and people are going to buy PoF based on his introductions . some comments from youtube even believed that clone has more power dmg with mirage . wp used to overhype lots of things . sometime he did do more harm than good .

and we already have seen the 30 stacks of confusion op burst talk everywhere due to his stream . i think he could have done second video more carefully since he got time to test things ?

Idk to me it looks like you are just kittened because wp didnt cry about “mirage being trash” “mirage being boring” as you would like to hear.

I have viewed several of his ‘introduction’ videos. His focus in all of them has been on the positive aspects of each of the elites. He’ll skim over or briefly mention things he considers or has heard are flaws, but that’s just his style.

If you want to hear an anti-mirage rant, you can always watch Helseth’s review-

zealex.9410:

Idk to me it looks like you are just kittened because wp didnt cry about “mirage being trash” “mirage being boring” as you would like to hear.

nope there are some positive wvw mirage video as well and i enjoyed watching them even i disagree with some opinions .
there are difference between hype , introduction and misinformation .
i said this based on my experience . i have met many people in game who have compete wrong ideas about mirage , positive or negative .
like i said it may do more harm than good for game and community with so many misinformation flying around .

Mikkel.8427:

I have viewed several of his ‘introduction’ videos. His focus in all of them has been on the positive aspects of each of the elites. He’ll skim over or briefly mention things he considers or has heard are flaws, but that’s just his style.

If you want to hear an anti-mirage rant, you can always watch Helseth’s review-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d0kcm5l1kg

Thanks , i already watched that , actually if we ignore parts like he asked to fire someone in anet . his suggestion is quite good overall.

recently we overhyped that unidentified gear thing from PoF , and it turns out its not as good as people thought ,then people have to list correct information to convince others in the end its still better than our current system but the damage is done .

Mikkel.8427:

I have viewed several of his ‘introduction’ videos. His focus in all of them has been on the positive aspects of each of the elites. He’ll skim over or briefly mention things he considers or has heard are flaws, but that’s just his style.

If you want to hear an anti-mirage rant, you can always watch Helseth’s review-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d0kcm5l1kg

It’s not like he’ll get to keep Partnership programs with Anet if he isn’t their PR mouthpiece.

musu.9205:

Refia Montes.3205:

He explained in the video, it’s not a review. It’s more of an introduction about the Mirage. He knows that the Mirage has its problems and he’s not there to address it or call them out. He’s just there to introduce the Elite Spec and advertise it. And of course to advertise it he needs to show every trait and Utility and what’s good with all of them.

but still some info are just incorrect . like i said , many things he talked about simply do not work that way . like illusionary ambush . and people are going to buy PoF based on his introductions . some comments from youtube even believed that clone has more power dmg with mirage . wp used to overhype lots of things . sometime he did do more harm than good .

and we already have seen the 30 stacks of confusion op burst talk everywhere due to his stream . i think he could have done second video more carefully since he got time to test things ?

Cool , first time i see the video. Is this the video u said i was watching and where i have my thaughts from? Well My thaughts about 30 Stacks Confusion( Which i said would only be 20 in the 2 seconds i mentioned) were from experience.

I played pvp and wvw only on the 2 Days of Beta and i experienced 20-30 Stacks confusion in a “single blow” (this can be 1 second or even 5 seconds, when on adrenaline [im on adrenaline in fighting games] u misinterpretate time).

Now im gonna watch the video ((:

FaboBabo.3581:

musu.9205:

Refia Montes.3205:

He explained in the video, it’s not a review. It’s more of an introduction about the Mirage. He knows that the Mirage has its problems and he’s not there to address it or call them out. He’s just there to introduce the Elite Spec and advertise it. And of course to advertise it he needs to show every trait and Utility and what’s good with all of them.

but still some info are just incorrect . like i said , many things he talked about simply do not work that way . like illusionary ambush . and people are going to buy PoF based on his introductions . some comments from youtube even believed that clone has more power dmg with mirage . wp used to overhype lots of things . sometime he did do more harm than good .

and we already have seen the 30 stacks of confusion op burst talk everywhere due to his stream . i think he could have done second video more carefully since he got time to test things ?

Cool , first time i see the video. Is this the video u said i was watching and where i have my thaughts from? Well My thaughts about 30 Stacks Confusion( Which i said would only be 20 in the 2 seconds i mentioned) were from experience.

I played pvp and wvw only on the 2 Days of Beta and i experienced 20-30 Stacks confusion in a “single blow” (this can be 1 second or even 5 seconds, when on adrenaline [im on adrenaline in fighting games] u misinterpretate time).

Now im gonna watch the video ((:

well , im sorry what im going to tell you
there was gm trait called mistrust , it was not reliable but it could achieve crazy high stacks of confusion too . i wiped whole team with it few times in pvp . but it was too gimmick anyway .thats how i feel about current mirage too.

Actually, I’d like to point out that WP opined on stream that Mirage Ambush was OP. That might well have contributed to Mirage being so heavily under tuned.

Zenith.7301:

Mikkel.8427:

I have viewed several of his ‘introduction’ videos. His focus in all of them has been on the positive aspects of each of the elites. He’ll skim over or briefly mention things he considers or has heard are flaws, but that’s just his style.

If you want to hear an anti-mirage rant, you can always watch Helseth’s review-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d0kcm5l1kg

It’s not like he’ll get to keep Partnership programs with Anet if he isn’t their PR mouthpiece.

Look at what happened to the one guy that made a video discussing how awful and dishonest they were about the legendary armor. WP knows who pays his bills.

Fay.2357:

Zenith.7301:

Mikkel.8427:

I have viewed several of his ‘introduction’ videos. His focus in all of them has been on the positive aspects of each of the elites. He’ll skim over or briefly mention things he considers or has heard are flaws, but that’s just his style.

If you want to hear an anti-mirage rant, you can always watch Helseth’s review-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d0kcm5l1kg

It’s not like he’ll get to keep Partnership programs with Anet if he isn’t their PR mouthpiece.

Look at what happened to the one guy that made a video discussing how awful and dishonest they were about the legendary armor. WP knows who pays his bills.

The armor was the least of it, considering they at least delivered it by the end of the expansion, unlike the legendary weapons and many armor sets they axed as rewards from the game as well.

As we’re speaking, HoT stat accessories still have a huge disparity in acquisition routes between viper vs. berserker stats as well, even as they have demolished the viability of many power builds and boosted condi ones to dominance.

And then there’s still the fact they nerfed alacrity, quickness, signet of inspiration, revenant’s facet, but they have not put a single finger on top of the most OP group utility in the game:

Not a single nerf to Phalanx Strength or Banners despite the fact they are by far the greatest group DPS boost in the game on top of coming alongside one of the top condi specs in the game.

Phalanx Strength is the very reason combo fields, traits, and utilities on other classes are completely obsolete, and it has existed since Vanilla. It’s incredible how long something will stay broken unless it affects their precious PvP.

His vid wasn’t that bad, it was less complainy than the forums which is to be expected esp when he gets favorable treatment from A-net and doesn’t want to kitten them off.

But only thing I have a problem with, is him saying things are overturned when they are not. Especially when you consider what all elite specs (Both HoT and PoF included) are capable of.

His claim GS ambush wont do the numbers because hes not in the right set up, without knowing or representing that it does awful damage either way is a problem.

More regarding GS ambush he pointed out that it gives it a bit of cleave. Well he failed to represent that no one wanted GS to cleave since Orr events 2012, and if they did they wouldn’t want something as ineffectual as an auto attack, on something as limited as a doge. (Yes we get more doge than core, but it’s still very limited. I don’t care how much vigor you give us core thief, hell even core ranger can doge more within a shorter period of time. Then DD exists…)

To his credit I feel he tried, and is over all less ignorant than most non mesmer mains, of mesmer’s situation.

musu.9205:

FaboBabo.3581:

musu.9205:

Refia Montes.3205:

He explained in the video, it’s not a review. It’s more of an introduction about the Mirage. He knows that the Mirage has its problems and he’s not there to address it or call them out. He’s just there to introduce the Elite Spec and advertise it. And of course to advertise it he needs to show every trait and Utility and what’s good with all of them.

but still some info are just incorrect . like i said , many things he talked about simply do not work that way . like illusionary ambush . and people are going to buy PoF based on his introductions . some comments from youtube even believed that clone has more power dmg with mirage . wp used to overhype lots of things . sometime he did do more harm than good .

and we already have seen the 30 stacks of confusion op burst talk everywhere due to his stream . i think he could have done second video more carefully since he got time to test things ?

Cool , first time i see the video. Is this the video u said i was watching and where i have my thaughts from? Well My thaughts about 30 Stacks Confusion( Which i said would only be 20 in the 2 seconds i mentioned) were from experience.

I played pvp and wvw only on the 2 Days of Beta and i experienced 20-30 Stacks confusion in a “single blow” (this can be 1 second or even 5 seconds, when on adrenaline [im on adrenaline in fighting games] u misinterpretate time).

Now im gonna watch the video ((:

well , im sorry what im going to tell you
there was gm trait called mistrust , it was not reliable but it could achieve crazy high stacks of confusion too . i wiped whole team with it few times in pvp . but it was too gimmick anyway .thats how i feel about current mirage too.

I played with mistrust , it was cool for its gimmicky feature. As u just said; It WAS.
It’s non existent. Mirrage can still cover an insame amount of confusion and other conditions in less time a mesmer would need.(if The mesmer was able to do the same, which he isn’t)

My favorite part was where he explained how op it could be if we just retarget 3 phantasm with 25 stacks phantasmal force unto a new player in pvp.

Daishi.6027:

His vid wasn’t that bad, it was less complainy than the forums which is to be expected esp when he gets favorable treatment from A-net and doesn’t want to kitten them off.

But only thing I have a problem with, is him saying things are overturned when they are not. Especially when you consider what all elite specs (Both HoT and PoF included) are capable of.

His claim GS ambush wont do the numbers because hes not in the right set up, without knowing or representing that it does awful damage either way is a problem.

More regarding GS ambush he pointed out that it gives it a bit of cleave. Well he failed to represent that no one wanted GS to cleave since Orr events 2012, and if they did they wouldn’t want something as ineffectual as an auto attack, on something as limited as a doge. (Yes we get more doge than core, but it’s still very limited. I don’t care how much vigor you give us core thief, hell even core ranger can doge more within a shorter period of time. Then DD exists…)

To his credit I feel he tried, and is over all less ignorant than most non mesmer mains, of mesmer’s situation.

thats how i feel . but well .wish anet could come to reddit or forum and talk about their plan for elite spec especially "weaker " ones

WP is not a mesmer main, what else is there to say? I like his positivity about the class, but he just doesn’t really know what he is talking about with most of it.

The spec is too gimmicky, mirrors are downright trash, its buggy, and its still an underwhelming DPS spec considering what other classes have had access to for years. Even then, some other DPS specs still offer some team utility, and mirage is entirely selfish, no unique boons or effects at all.

musu.9205:

Daishi.6027:

His vid wasn’t that bad, it was less complainy than the forums which is to be expected esp when he gets favorable treatment from A-net and doesn’t want to kitten them off.

But only thing I have a problem with, is him saying things are overturned when they are not. Especially when you consider what all elite specs (Both HoT and PoF included) are capable of.

His claim GS ambush wont do the numbers because hes not in the right set up, without knowing or representing that it does awful damage either way is a problem.

More regarding GS ambush he pointed out that it gives it a bit of cleave. Well he failed to represent that no one wanted GS to cleave since Orr events 2012, and if they did they wouldn’t want something as ineffectual as an auto attack, on something as limited as a doge. (Yes we get more doge than core, but it’s still very limited. I don’t care how much vigor you give us core thief, hell even core ranger can doge more within a shorter period of time. Then DD exists…)

To his credit I feel he tried, and is over all less ignorant than most non mesmer mains, of mesmer’s situation.

thats how i feel . but well .wish anet could come to reddit or forum and talk about their plan for elite spec especially "weaker " ones

Problem is I don’t think they actually view mirage as one of the weaker ones.

Daishi.6027:

musu.9205:

Daishi.6027:

His vid wasn’t that bad, it was less complainy than the forums which is to be expected esp when he gets favorable treatment from A-net and doesn’t want to kitten them off.

But only thing I have a problem with, is him saying things are overturned when they are not. Especially when you consider what all elite specs (Both HoT and PoF included) are capable of.

His claim GS ambush wont do the numbers because hes not in the right set up, without knowing or representing that it does awful damage either way is a problem.

More regarding GS ambush he pointed out that it gives it a bit of cleave. Well he failed to represent that no one wanted GS to cleave since Orr events 2012, and if they did they wouldn’t want something as ineffectual as an auto attack, on something as limited as a doge. (Yes we get more doge than core, but it’s still very limited. I don’t care how much vigor you give us core thief, hell even core ranger can doge more within a shorter period of time. Then DD exists…)

To his credit I feel he tried, and is over all less ignorant than most non mesmer mains, of mesmer’s situation.

thats how i feel . but well .wish anet could come to reddit or forum and talk about their plan for elite spec especially "weaker " ones

Problem is I don’t think they actually view mirage as one of the weaker ones.

well reddit had few posts about mirage problems in front page for days .

and there was poll after demo about whats the best elite spec, mes and rev one were voted least .
http://www.strawpoll.me/13757285/r
mirage now is least voted
considering that gw2 reddit users usually dont value usefulness of certain class that much and mirage has one of best visual effect . we can see how bad it is for most people.

if anet cant do anyrhing with massive negative feedback about mirage . i switch to engi or necro fpr pof i guess.

This was the guy who during Mirages reveal said a 600 damage unload ability that costs endurance was OP. Not sure what you expected.

Levetty.1279:

This was the guy who during Mirages reveal said a 600 damage unload ability that costs endurance was OP. Not sure what you expected.

Yea. And you brought something else up. A lot of the people that are talking about how powerful ambush skills are (even though they are clearly balanced around having 3 illusions (and some of them are even weak at that), yet its almost impossible to get 3 clones out on a competitive battlefield in the first place) completely neglect that we are giving up a dodge to use them in most situations. Dodging is one of the strongest defensive abilities in the game. To be forced to give one up to get a mediocre attack is not good.

Unless we are given endurance regen similar to what DD got, most of our ambush skills are severely underpowered when we have 2 or fewer clones out.

I agree that WP is usually off when commenting on things being effective or not, and PvP/WvW meta since he is really not that familiar with things there.

However, in that particular video, I think he is pretty neutral on the whole spec. He is mostly just showcasing what mirage currently can do. He is also very positive about the game as of late and I don’t have a problem with that

I watched the whole video and it was a good introduction to the mirage spec.

I mean, not counting the awkwardness of GS cleave, it does less damage than just auto attacking with high Power. It has undertuned scaling and doesn’t really offer an “ambush”.

For everything im going to say keep in mind that im 90% sure AN will fix clunkyness/Bugs etc.

I dont understand how ppl say bonus dmg after a dodge , forces us to dodge offensively. Its just ; play the game , dodge , deal bonus dmg after dodging.

Im not a pro Gw2 Player, but i think i got some experience balance wise when talking about Online Games. If it’s CoD, HS or Lol ; i usually got a good feeling about whats good/cancerous/etc.

The problem ur referring to reminds me of the “Flash-`Problem`” in Lol. Lol is a Moba ; U choose on of x Champions, who has 4 Unique Abilitys. Additional u can choose 2 Skills which can be used my all champions. One of this Skills is “Flash”. It blinks u a short distance and is on a fairely high cooldown (300 seconds).

In low competetive Plays u will often see aggressive Flash’s to secure a Kill , without even thinking of what will happen after that. Spoiler ; Ur gonna die cause u were greedy.

In high competetive Play u will still see aggressive Flashs, but ONLY in the right situation. That beeing said, when the Flash Skill is on Cooldown, u will play the game completly different.

So no back to GW2 ; If u start a fight with dodge ambush, dodge ambush in the hope of bursting ur enemy, u did not understand the flexibility of the trait as whole.

While when u force a dodge by casting a “High priority dodge Skill”, then chain in on Ambush, u leave ur enemy 2 options ; dodge my ambush and get hit by my second “High priority dodge Skill”, or dont’t dodge the ambush and eat some dmg.

If i ended up in a duel in which i cant burst my enemy with normal rotations i can chain in an extra ambush to secure the kill, cause i know at this point i won’t need my ambush for beeing save, simply cause there is no enemy anymore.

Essentialy u can froce a dodge for ur own dodge. This is a mixed thing in my opinion.

It would be really good to force dodges for ur own dodge if u can secure to have more dodges then ur enemy….., but mirrors are bad designed, and everyone is able to get vigour, energy sigils and adventure runes. Thiefs even got more dodges then Mirrage will ever have.

That beeing said i seriously dont think the ambush mechanic is bad designed or weak at all; I think it’s a cool design and alonestanding is kind of “strong”. (again ur forcing ur enemy to dodge one of ur “autos”→ u still got EVERY other skill)
But then we need more tools to gain endurance and/or dodges.

You should be able to spawn mirrors more frequently on positions which u want them to spawn. Taking mirrors from our deception skills, and make a new f5 or something could maybe solve the problem. We can buff the “never-see-play”- skills since they loose there “opness”, and have more options for the mirror mechanic.

Maybe something related to Phantasms ? Mirrage ; Phantasms cant be shattered but u can only have one active. maximise ur illusions to 4. F5 ; Shatter the phantasms to create a Mirror, lasting 10 seconds at least, providing a boon/enflicting a condition on activation, covering the phantasm. (Torch phantasm→ fury /burn, pistol phantasm cripple/quickness… u get my idea.)
The radius of the mirror shatter has to be big, like u dont want to stand next to the mirrage when he get mirrage cloak that way.

Just quick thaughts, nothing in dept, nothing seriously thaught about for days.

FaboBabo.3581:

I dont understand how ppl say bonus dmg after a dodge , forces us to dodge offensively. Its just ; play the game , dodge , deal bonus dmg after dodging.

If the skills were faster and less clunky, then maybe. The problem is that some of these skills lock you in place, they are easily predictable, they are a part of your burst (this is notable in PvP and WvW), they are not always stronger than just auto attacking (LOL WHY?).

Almost the entirety of the Mirage traitline works to “improve” these or do something when you dodge, but they give barely noticeable buffs. If we compare this (not to Daredevil) but to Acrobatics (the other dodge traitline), the “only good thing” we get is Renewing Oasis which is an Adept that rivals their GM. Additionally Dune Cloak has hidden power with it’s 20% condi duration (at all times in PvE).

Mirage doesn’t do anything for your clones. It doesn’t do anything for your phantasms. You can argue that it does Infinite Horizon for both of them, but Superspeed on Phants is rarely useful, and clone ambushes are for you, not clones.

You can’t play Mirage by just “dodging when you need to and counterattacking”. That’s like running Daredevil and only dodging when you need to, and getting the attack for free. That would work except you severely hamper your damage output (this example works for both Mirage and Daredevil). As soon as your elite mechanic revolves around dodging, your rotation revolves around dodging. As a Daredevil it’s not too bad because they get Endurance regen up the wazoo (and not just from Daredevil, it’s a thing that was a part of Thief for quite a while). Mesmer gets… Vigor. Mirage gives… a tiny bit of Vigor. Um… what?

Esplen.3940:

FaboBabo.3581:

I dont understand how ppl say bonus dmg after a dodge , forces us to dodge offensively. Its just ; play the game , dodge , deal bonus dmg after dodging.

If the skills were faster and less clunky, then maybe. The problem is that some of these skills lock you in place, they are easily predictable, they are a part of your burst (this is notable in PvP and WvW), they are not always stronger than just auto attacking (LOL WHY?).

Almost the entirety of the Mirage traitline works to “improve” these or do something when you dodge, but they give barely noticeable buffs. If we compare this (not to Daredevil) but to Acrobatics (the other dodge traitline), the “only good thing” we get is Renewing Oasis which is an Adept that rivals their GM. Additionally Dune Cloak has hidden power with it’s 20% condi duration (at all times in PvE).

Mirage doesn’t do anything for your clones. It doesn’t do anything for your phantasms. You can argue that it does Infinite Horizon for both of them, but Superspeed on Phants is rarely useful, and clone ambushes are for you, not clones.

You can’t play Mirage by just “dodging when you need to and counterattacking”. That’s like running Daredevil and only dodging when you need to, and getting the attack for free. That would work except you severely hamper your damage output (this example works for both Mirage and Daredevil). As soon as your elite mechanic revolves around dodging, your rotation revolves around dodging. As a Daredevil it’s not too bad because they get Endurance regen up the wazoo (and not just from Daredevil, it’s a thing that was a part of Thief for quite a while). Mesmer gets… Vigor. Mirage gives… a tiny bit of Vigor. Um… what?

U covered my book in some sentences. (while i posted out some positive effects of it too) WP

FaboBabo.3581:

musu.9205:

FaboBabo.3581:

musu.9205:

Refia Montes.3205:

He explained in the video, it’s not a review. It’s more of an introduction about the Mirage. He knows that the Mirage has its problems and he’s not there to address it or call them out. He’s just there to introduce the Elite Spec and advertise it. And of course to advertise it he needs to show every trait and Utility and what’s good with all of them.

but still some info are just incorrect . like i said , many things he talked about simply do not work that way . like illusionary ambush . and people are going to buy PoF based on his introductions . some comments from youtube even believed that clone has more power dmg with mirage . wp used to overhype lots of things . sometime he did do more harm than good .

and we already have seen the 30 stacks of confusion op burst talk everywhere due to his stream . i think he could have done second video more carefully since he got time to test things ?

Cool , first time i see the video. Is this the video u said i was watching and where i have my thaughts from? Well My thaughts about 30 Stacks Confusion( Which i said would only be 20 in the 2 seconds i mentioned) were from experience.

I played pvp and wvw only on the 2 Days of Beta and i experienced 20-30 Stacks confusion in a “single blow” (this can be 1 second or even 5 seconds, when on adrenaline [im on adrenaline in fighting games] u misinterpretate time).

Now im gonna watch the video ((:

well , im sorry what im going to tell you
there was gm trait called mistrust , it was not reliable but it could achieve crazy high stacks of confusion too . i wiped whole team with it few times in pvp . but it was too gimmick anyway .thats how i feel about current mirage too.

I played with mistrust , it was cool for its gimmicky feature. As u just said; It WAS.
It’s non existent. Mirrage can still cover an insame amount of confusion and other conditions in less time a mesmer would need.(if The mesmer was able to do the same, which he isn’t)

They removed Mistrust and gave us Ineptitude. Now, not to claim anything too highly, but you can get pretty high AoE stacks of Confusion with Ineptitude if you use Blinding Dissipation to get Blind on your Shatters, more reliably than Mistrust.

If Mirage wanted to build more around those traits, I’d say great! However, using clones is just… unreliable, all around, practically speaking. Mirage needs more clone support, or more synergy with other trait lines.

Tbh, I think if Mirage wants to be focused around Evades and “Mirage Cloak” there needs to be more “on-evade” or “on-dodge” traits. (Moreso on successful evasion).

Esplen.3940:

Tbh, I think if Mirage wants to be focused around Evades and “Mirage Cloak” there needs to be more “on-evade” or “on-dodge” traits. (Moreso on successful evasion).

Nah. You’d be on a quick path to a monster at that rate.

It just needs the ambush skills to be better in that regard. And should probably ditch mirage mirrors for something else entirely.

They should also delete the evade backwards utility & put something actually decent there. Something that does damage, preferably.

I would agree, but with ANets record of putting ridiculous ICD on everything Mesmer, it would be hardpressed to be overly powerful (plus even if it was, this community would complain about it being op and then something arbitrary would get nerfed).

I also was kinda shocked ab out WP’s video if the mirage. He clearly doesn’t play mesmer enough to understand how badly thought out mirage is. He didn’t realize how badly mirage synergizes with the main mesmer traitlines and shatter skills.

Take what WP says about anything balanced related and throw it out the window.

He’s a GW2 pve lore content creator and nothing else.

I was pretty disappointed with it as well. He was fairy objective with some of the other specs but for mirage it just seemed like he kept reiterating that people just didn’t know how to play the class and that we just underestimated everything. If he were a Mesmer main instead of elementalist or engineer he might have had a little more to say about it. But I didn’t really expect him to trash talk it either so it isn’t that surprising. I think my biggest concern is that when someone like him with a lot more influence than one of us on a forum posts claims that they think the spec is in good condition, it keeps changes from being made. I think part of it was also the fact that he just wanted to get the video over with as he pushed it ahead of schedule due to complaints. Just not sure he understood why people were so passionate about wanting to hear his take on mirage.

On top of everything else it is surprising mirage doesn’t have more traited synergy with stealth considering the implication that we learned this spec by training with thieves.

Fay.2357:

Zenith.7301:

Mikkel.8427:

I have viewed several of his ‘introduction’ videos. His focus in all of them has been on the positive aspects of each of the elites. He’ll skim over or briefly mention things he considers or has heard are flaws, but that’s just his style.

If you want to hear an anti-mirage rant, you can always watch Helseth’s review-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d0kcm5l1kg

It’s not like he’ll get to keep Partnership programs with Anet if he isn’t their PR mouthpiece.

Look at what happened to the one guy that made a video discussing how awful and dishonest they were about the legendary armor. WP knows who pays his bills.

Tbh brazil would be fine so ong as he wasnt focushing on Arenanet paul.

Whole idea of making “introduction” of any elite sp. before developers gather feedback from community is sort of gamble, you really have no clue what will happens with specialization in next 1-2 months. Just because HoT specs stays mostly the same, doesnt mean it will be like that in PoF.

And that moment with GS… like really, it was junk in PvE before and its still junk. Even trying to talk about it neutrally or positive.. feels like betrayal.

FaboBabo.3581:

For everything im going to say keep in mind that im 90% sure AN will fix clunkyness/Bugs etc.

I dont understand how ppl say bonus dmg after a dodge , forces us to dodge offensively. Its just ; play the game , dodge , deal bonus dmg after dodging.

I originally thought as you do, and I think it has a part to play. The problem, I think, is that an elite specialisation is meant to be a sideways progression; not more powerful, but a different way to play. At present it seems the most effective way to play Mirage is to play core mesmer and press 1 every time you press dodge.

Elessaria.9142:

FaboBabo.3581:

For everything im going to say keep in mind that im 90% sure AN will fix clunkyness/Bugs etc.

I dont understand how ppl say bonus dmg after a dodge , forces us to dodge offensively. Its just ; play the game , dodge , deal bonus dmg after dodging.

I originally thought as you do, and I think it has a part to play. The problem, I think, is that an elite specialisation is meant to be a sideways progression; not more powerful, but a different way to play. At present it seems the most effective way to play Mirage is to play core mesmer and press 1 every time you press dodge.

I absolutely agree.

Elessaria.9142:

The problem, I think, is that an elite specialisation is meant to be a sideways progression; not more powerful, but a different way to play.

This statement hits the ball out of the park.

At present it seems the most effective way to play Mirage is to play core mesmer and press 1 every time you press dodge.

And he makes another home run, wowie.

That may be the intent, but in practice most of the HoT specs have not been sidegrades. They have been upgrades with the exception of scrapper in PvE.

So if you introduce new elite specs and they don’t match the power creep of everybody else’s elite specs, being the lone spec that’s a “sidegrade” means you’re screwed.

This is why deadeyes have the nerve to complain. Daredevil is such an OP power creep on the base thief class, most daredevils would not be taking the downgrade in mobility and survival/pulmonary impact damage to play deadeye in PvP.

Same goes for mirage and soulbeast. They are both utterly mediocre specs that offer no best in slot group utility to make up for their mediocre damage output. So, they will go unused.

Not much of a side grade when Inferior to Chrono in almost every way but mobility, and on a whole inferior to core thief, and DD when trying to encroach on their archetype.

Being a side grade to core Mesmer would put mirage behind all the other core classes, let alone the HoT or PoF elite specs. I don’t know why people keep saying this about elite specs when it obviously isn’t true.

That said if Mirage was a side grade to core mesmer it would be better then the downgrade to core Mesmer it currently is.

Well – I have watched all WP 2nd gen elite spec videos. Truth is he is bit of a white knight in these – saying pretty much only nice things etc. But if you watch these one after each other you can see/hear quite a difference – there are classes where he is like ""wow this is sooo OP" (cough Scourge cough) and there are classes where he is more like “this needs to be looked et, this si clunky, this needs to be tuned up” (yes Mirage)….

So overall I think he did very good job to show up the mechanics without bashing or praising things too much.

My personal opinion on Mirage state is:
1) you can pretty much SEE ho scared the devs are when giving new stuff to Mesmer – while other classes are getting better/different stuff with elite spec Mesmer gets something very limited and in addition main new mechanic is very disadvantageous in its core (no movement on dodge) and you have to use GM trait to make it even work properly…
2) I am 100% sure some skills are unfinished/bugged (GS ambush doing less dmg then GS1 and taking longer then ambush winow… wtf?) etc
3) there is no rework of main core mesmer mechanic – shatter – even though shattering goes against the logic of Mirage
4) Mirrors are complete bull* in its current form

Follow up video by WP, for any interested.

well wp made second video .
A Look Back At Generation 2

https://youtu.be/AZNHGyKgXGA?t=1448

I don’t know how you guys defend this ?

he basically said mes mains are noobs can cant see how awesome mirage is .

coz we surely did not test DE trait with IH(ambush is a lot from wp), we surely did not test IH + interrupt traits with sword clone , surely we did not know mirror has short weakness (30s + cd for weakness )

and funniest is he claimed that mirage could be fastest class in gw2 beyond anything like DD lol.

cos superspeed trait +Executioner Axe Toy…

vigor is op i guess

Yea, its kind of insulting that he insinuated that mesmer mains weren’t seeing these synergies immediately. The reason we haven’t discussed them though is because they don’t cover up a flawed design.

It was really annoying that he wrote off Mesmers complaining as “hyperbolic”. If I were to brag, I’d say we’re one of the more organized and analytic-oriented populations on the forums. And we’re a good bit in a constant state of salt because we’re not strangers, nor amnesiacs, when it comes to ANet pulling a fast one on us.

OriOri.8724:

Yea, its kind of insulting that he insinuated that mesmer mains weren’t seeing these synergies immediately. The reason we haven’t discussed them though is because they don’t cover up a flawed design.

The synergies he talked about, at least the DE and interruption ones, I tested myself. DE clones don’t get Mirage Cloak on-summon, and interruption traits don’t trigger on a sword clone’s ambush.

So… we’ve discussed them enough.

Dondagora.9645:

OriOri.8724:

Yea, its kind of insulting that he insinuated that mesmer mains weren’t seeing these synergies immediately. The reason we haven’t discussed them though is because they don’t cover up a flawed design.

The synergies he talked about, at least the DE and interruption ones, I tested myself. DE clones don’t get Mirage Cloak on-summon, and interruption traits don’t trigger on a sword clone’s ambush.

So… we’ve discussed them enough.

Yea, I know that. But he hasn’t bothered to even read the mesmer discussions about mirage because he was still asking for people to test these synergies and see if they even work.