Guild Wars 2

So i’m loving my berserker build, and i finally geard up most of the required stuff (except some ascended trinkets and rings, too lazy to learn fractals for rings, blah, blah)…

But i’m also kinda bored by it sometimes. I wanna mix things up and try something different…

Somewhere on this forum i found a “Blackwater Mesmer” or something build that i find interesting. So i’m thinking of farming the gear for that build and try it out.
Staff and Scepter/Torch… Condition/confusion build…

Also, instead of Chaos trait line (toughness) maybe i would try out Illusions trait line for more condition damage. I never had a problem with survivability, mesmers being all cloaky and stuff, so i wouldn’t necesarily put traits into Chaos (toughness)…

So instead of rabid i’d use rampager’s armor stats… The problem with rampager being, the main stats are precision and power, while the condition stat is secondary. Rabid’s stats have condition and precision primary while the toughness is secondary. So maybe rabid, idk…

My question is; Will everyone hate me? I asked a few people in game and everyone said it sucks in PvE and i’s a PvP only build. When i was leveling to 80 i mostly used staff and i love it! But berserker build uses greatsword instead and while it is fun and has cool skills, i wanna get a staff build too…

EDIT: I forgot to mention. I’d be doing PvE content and maybe WvW like EOTM and stuff… Something like attrition. I can put conditions on something then cloak/phase retreat/blink and gtfo the harm’s way. :P

Thoughts?

Conditions are bad for PvE because of 1 – stacking limit, 2 – Confusion does close to no damage because mobs attack slowly.

Dungeons aside, play how you want as long as it doesn’t harm others playstyle (as long as you don’t use condition builds in dungeons and fractals). Keep in mind you can’t damage structures with conditions in WwW (EotM) and World bosses are capped on conditions so you won’t deal damage because your conditions will be canceled by other’s.
Berserker builds do use only swords by the way.

I know berserker builds only use swords… I use both Sword/Focus and Greatsword… Sometimes Sword/Pistol… I don’t plan on using this build in dungeons, just general PvE i guess…

So basically what you’re saying is, conditions are useless? kitten …
Is berserker the only build that does any damage?

Try this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fl0npRtdqxINcrNyqBdqlg6sUlgW6MktAA-T1RHAB6u/gRK/K4CAwo6PAcQAE4JAElSQA-w

It’s a torment shatter build which uses the weapons you like and the trait spread that you were thinking. It’s mainly for WvW though (condis arent really viable in pve). Very good condi removal and survivability. You could perhaps go for a more hybrid gear to increase power based damage skills like mind wrack and iWarlock. Also you could try balthazar runes for burning on heal (only 10s cd) instead of torment duration.

Smirgel.9460:

Try this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fl0npRtdqxINcrNyqBdqlg6sUlgW6MktAA-T1RHAB6u/gRK/K4CAwo6PAcQAE4JAElSQA-w

It’s a torment shatter build which uses the weapons you like and the trait spread that you were thinking. It’s mainly for WvW though (condis arent really viable in pve). Very good condi removal and survivability. You could perhaps go for a more hybrid gear to increase power based damage skills like mind wrack and iWarlock. Also you could try balthazar runes for burning on heal (only 10s cd) instead of torment duration.

Interesting! Thank you!
I might tweak the gear, but it’s an interesting build.

Veprovina.4876:

I know berserker builds only use swords… I use both Sword/Focus and Greatsword… Sometimes Sword/Pistol… I don’t plan on using this build in dungeons, just general PvE i guess…

So basically what you’re saying is, conditions are useless? kitten …
Is berserker the only build that does any damage?

…conditions not so useless

you just need to be solo and have a way to apply them heavily which a mesmer doesn’t

the chaos actually gives decent condi with the debilitating dissipation and then the one at 5 points for toughness converted to condi damage, not to mention 300 toughness

maha.7902:

Veprovina.4876:

I know berserker builds only use swords… I use both Sword/Focus and Greatsword… Sometimes Sword/Pistol… I don’t plan on using this build in dungeons, just general PvE i guess…

So basically what you’re saying is, conditions are useless? kitten …
Is berserker the only build that does any damage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tssCh7xThQE

…conditions not so useless

you just need to be solo and have a way to apply them heavily which a mesmer doesn’t

I wouldn’t say a mesmer can’t apply conditions a lot… My playstile use to be, pump conditions on something then summon a Phantasmal Warlock for massive damage… And when that something has more health, i can summon more Warlocks to do their stuff. Then i just added a trait that gives phantasms more health.

Staff skill 1 gives conditions and skill 5 adds ton of them. Pair that with the trait that makes them last longer and it’s more viable to use Warlock for damage. Also, a signet that adds condtition damage is nice too…

All in all, i haven’t had the experience that conditions from a mesmer are bad. Maybe other classes can do more damage with them, sure, but if nothing else, Warlocks do a lot of damage especially in parties or any group content when people pump conditions on a target. Maybe something changed from the last time i played a (kinda) condition mesmer but i found it enjoyable.

I was pleasantly surprised at how much damage 3 Warlocks can do, even when solo, but they’re better in parties. Maybe not now since everyone and their mother plays berserker, but still.

Basically anything on a scepter or a staff adds some kind of condition, and scepter 2 torment is always nice to have on an enemy. :P And torch has a Mage phantasm that adds confusion.

Staff skill is nice to have to boon your party (not quite the guardian boons but that’s not what mesmers are for anyway).

I’ll fiddle around with it… Maybe something like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fnsISRa2pGOoB1aG52gOVNQdQeSKLdAC2IB-T1hOABdu/QKK/w8rAElGh3U/BAdB0oEEA-w

It has a reasonable amount of survivability (more than i have now on berserker) and good condition applying…

I’ll have to test multiple builds with some rare gear before i go farm exotics and stuff…

Veprovina.4876:

maha.7902:

Veprovina.4876:

I know berserker builds only use swords… I use both Sword/Focus and Greatsword… Sometimes Sword/Pistol… I don’t plan on using this build in dungeons, just general PvE i guess…

So basically what you’re saying is, conditions are useless? kitten …
Is berserker the only build that does any damage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tssCh7xThQE

…conditions not so useless

you just need to be solo and have a way to apply them heavily which a mesmer doesn’t

I wouldn’t say a mesmer can’t apply conditions a lot… My playstile use to be, pump conditions on something then summon a Phantasmal Warlock for massive damage… And when that something has more health, i can summon more Warlocks to do their stuff. Then i just added a trait that gives phantasms more health.

Staff skill 1 gives conditions and skill 5 adds ton of them. Pair that with the trait that makes them last longer and it’s more viable to use Warlock for damage. Also, a signet that adds condtition damage is nice too…

All in all, i haven’t had the experience that conditions from a mesmer are bad. Maybe other classes can do more damage with them, sure, but if nothing else, Warlocks do a lot of damage especially in parties or any group content when people pump conditions on a target. Maybe something changed from the last time i played a (kinda) condition mesmer but i found it enjoyable.

I was pleasantly surprised at how much damage 3 Warlocks can do, even when solo, but they’re better in parties. Maybe not now since everyone and their mother plays berserker, but still.

Basically anything on a scepter or a staff adds some kind of condition, and scepter 2 torment is always nice to have on an enemy. :P And torch has a Mage phantasm that adds confusion.

Staff skill is nice to have to boon your party (not quite the guardian boons but that’s not what mesmers are for anyway).

The problem with iWarlock and condition damage is that Warlock does… more damage if you go with Berserker (or Assassin’s). He gets 10% bonus per condition— but it doesn’t matter how many stacks there are, or how much those are doing. His own damage is purely power based. If you go with Rampager’s or Rabid to buff your condition damage, your Warlock is doing way less than it could be. And you can apply conditions just as well with Berserker, even if you don’t deal much damage with them.

Anyway, “good” condition builds (like warriors and necros) are able to do things like capping bleeds and poisons themselves. Mesmers can probably do that if they stack a few Duelists, at least with bleeds. But we don’t have a reliable way of stacking other useful conditions, and the bleeds are all rather short. Can it work? Well, sure, anything ~can~ work in open world. But it’ll be slower than it could be, which is up to you to decide if you can accept.

Can you maintain full burning uptime, almost full uptime on torment and almost full uptime of 16-25 bleeds on mesmer? In addition to perma-fury and massive might stacking?

Condi mesmer is fine for wvw and pvp, but it won’t work in solo pve content very well. I don’t mind being proven wrong though, if someone can show me a competitive boss kill time with a condi mesmer, it would be great to watch.

Well since this build is mainly for fun, i can accept that…

I didn’t know about iWarlock though. They did good damage whatever i was wearing. Mainly because it doesn’ matter how many stacks of conditions you do but how many different ones are there. So in parties or open world content, bosses have every condition. So if you can summon 3 of them and keep them alive, the DPS is quite good.

Also, Rampager’s adds power, so that would buff iWarlock’s damage. Rabid, on the other hand is more defensive.

Kinda lame to add a skill like iWarlock to a condition type weapon then make it dependant on power which you can’t achieve properly…

Maybe mixing Domination and Illusion, supported by Rampager? I’ll have to check that out too.

Anyway, this is about me trying out different things. I’m that just about any build has been tested at this point, but i want to find another fun one to play, when i’m not required to play berserker. If it’s not that good, so be it, it’ll never be as good as berserker, sadly, because all i ever see are berserkers… Berserkers everywhere! If you’re not berserker (and not just mesmers), you’re not welcome to the party.

Kinda takes the fun out of a good skill system when everyone uses the same thing. I went berserker mainly because it’s a really good DPS build and really, i had to, the “hardcore” dungeon crowd just kicks you out if you don’t have berserker… How they know what my build is exactly i don’t know, but whatever…

Rampager is better than Rabid, but the Warlock will still be better with Berserker because Ferocity transfers to the Warlock and he’ll hit harder. None of his damage is condition based, so he gets nothing from condition damage gear.

Casual groups don’t care about berserkers anyway, so just stick with those if you want to run something eclectic. Or stick with open world.

And there are many ways for us ‘hardcore’ folks to tell what build someone is running (sigils, signets, stacking type, weapon choice, approximate damage output, how much damage they take from a hit, etc.). But again, stay away from “speed run” or “zerker only” groups and no one cares.

I’ll add— there’s quite a bit of build diversity available for all classes. Customization exists along many axes, and because there is a consistent choice along one set of decisions, does not mean choice is completely eliminated. And, almost all games have an “optimal” choice at the end of the day, no matter how diverse the build system. Anyway, for mesmers, you can check the link in my sig and see the current popular berserker builds— they’re all similar, but there are 5 or more different choices, and quite a few more choices inside each of those.

maxinion.8396:

Rampager is better than Rabid, but the Warlock will still be better with Berserker because Ferocity transfers to the Warlock and he’ll hit harder. None of his damage is condition based, so he gets nothing from condition damage gear.

Casual groups don’t care about berserkers anyway, so just stick with those if you want to run something eclectic. Or stick with open world.

And there are many ways for us ‘hardcore’ folks to tell what build someone is running (sigils, signets, stacking type, weapon choice, approximate damage output, how much damage they take from a hit, etc.). But again, stay away from “speed run” or “zerker only” groups and no one cares.

I’ll add— there’s quite a bit of build diversity available for all classes. Customization exists along many axes, and because there is a consistent choice along one set of decisions, does not mean choice is completely eliminated. And, almost all games have an “optimal” choice at the end of the day, no matter how diverse the build system. Anyway, for mesmers, you can check the link in my sig and see the current popular berserker builds— they’re all similar, but there are 5 or more different choices, and quite a few more choices inside each of those.

Yeah, i did my share of dungeons and farmed myself a full flame legion set. :P I know what zerker only, exp and speedrun means. Now they know i’m berserker, they just have to look at my armor, but i don’t know how they knew before. :P

Most of the time when i got kicked, i got kicked right when i entered the dungeon so no one could even see the damage i did. :P

Anyway, about iWarlock… It’s still just one skill, so making a full set of armor around him, while every other skill i use is condition based would be kinda pointless maybe.
So in order to maximize it’s usefulness “within” the condition armor set, Rampager’s the way to go i think.

Also, i hear he’s bugged, that he runs around chasing mobs instead of shooting?
Nice, Focus phantasm is bugged, teleportation skills are bugged, what else is bugged on a mesmer?

And i’ll check those links of yours, thank you!

If you zoned in with a staff, that’s probably why you were kicked.

Just a note on mesmer conditions. Most mesmer condition application is either based on counters, enemy attacks, RNG, or a combination of the above. These factors make it quite strong in pvp, because enemies attack and the RNG cycles between various good control conditions and damage conditions.

In PvE though, mobs attack slowly, so it’s harder to get uptime on conditions with the counter, and weakness/vuln are useless compared to bleed/burning. Where in PvP permaweakness is awesome, in PvE all that weakness is simply 3 less bleeds per proc.

maha.7902:

If you zoned in with a staff, that’s probably why you were kicked.

I appeared with a greatsword, so idk what went wrong… But it’s not like it’s hard to get dungeon parties so it’s not a big deal. I can just make one myself and use LFG. Hehe. :P

Anyway, yeah, Fay, i understand the predicament of conditions. It’s not going to be my main build, just a side build that i run for fun, when i’m not needed anywhere.

I want to have some fun experimenting with different weapons. And who knows i might develop a taste for PvP at some point.

A few months ago there was an age of enlightenment in this subforum where people were forced to accept that greatsword is bad for dungeons – so maybe that enlightenment has filtered down in to pug groups.

I can’t remember what my exact numbers were, but GS @ 900> range was like 60% of 1h sword’s dps – and then if you include the fact that duelist and swordsmen are higher dps phantasms than berserker, it pulls ahead even further.

“berserker” isn’t good enough, you should be using the right weapons.

maha.7902:

A few months ago there was an age of enlightenment in this subforum where people were forced to accept that greatsword is bad for dungeons – so maybe that enlightenment has filtered down in to pug groups.

I can’t remember what my exact numbers were, but GS @ 900> range was like 60% of 1h sword’s dps – and then if you include the fact that duelist and swordsmen are higher dps phantasms than berserker, it pulls ahead even further.

“berserker” isn’t good enough, you should be using the right weapons.

At least personally, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I won’t ever kick someone on sight, I’ll at least give them a chance to fight the first boss and see what happens. That being said, if I see a mesmer using Scepter/torch + staff during a boss fight, I’ll kick them immediately afterwards, and I’ll tell them why. I’m accepting up to a certain point, but I’m not willing to drag random pugs through dungeons for no reason whatsoever.

What’s wrong with a greatsword all of a sudden? When was it not acceptable? No one ever gave me any kitten for having one, and all the other mesmers in EXP, and zerker only have them.

Fay.2357:

At least personally, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I won’t ever kick someone on sight, I’ll at least give them a chance to fight the first boss and see what happens. That being said, if I see a mesmer using Scepter/torch + staff during a boss fight, I’ll kick them immediately afterwards, and I’ll tell them why. I’m accepting up to a certain point, but I’m not willing to drag random pugs through dungeons for no reason whatsoever.

You kick people during boss fights or after the dungeon is over? Because, then they just leave anyway so i don’t get it…

If you’re gonna give someone the benefit of the doubt, at least let them finish the dungeon, or kick them at the start. You can see what they’re wearing at the start, so why waste their time by letting them think they can finish the dungeon?

I mean, if i make a party, and say speedrun, EXP only or zerker only, i’m not gonna allow scepter mesmers. But if i don’t care and say, write everyone welcome, i won’t just kick anyone just because they suck with their build. There’s others too.

PRO tip: Better kick someone on sight rather than allowing them to feel like they’ll finish the run with you, then kick them after the boss fight before they can get their rewards. They did just go trough the dungeon with you, and you did allow them in the party so at least let them finish, that 2-3 minutes of extra time from the lack of DPS isn’t going to hurt anyone, and there’s nothing worse than wasting people’s time by doing this…

For my condition WvW set, I use the “Dire” set, its main stat is condition damage and then subs are Toughness / Vitality, this is more of an outlasting style play though, but with these stats it would be easier to go into the illusion tree without forgoing to much benefit lost from chaos. I also have the travelers runes on this set, and as an aside, I generally roam with my good friend who is a thief so its an awesome pair to run. But I have had a lot of solo success with this set.

Veprovina.4876:

What’s wrong with a greatsword all of a sudden? When was it not acceptable? No one ever gave me any kitten for having one, and all the other mesmers in EXP, and zerker only have them.

Fay.2357:

At least personally, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I won’t ever kick someone on sight, I’ll at least give them a chance to fight the first boss and see what happens. That being said, if I see a mesmer using Scepter/torch + staff during a boss fight, I’ll kick them immediately afterwards, and I’ll tell them why. I’m accepting up to a certain point, but I’m not willing to drag random pugs through dungeons for no reason whatsoever.

You kick people during boss fights or after the dungeon is over? Because, then they just leave anyway so i don’t get it…

If you’re gonna give someone the benefit of the doubt, at least let them finish the dungeon, or kick them at the start. You can see what they’re wearing at the start, so why waste their time by letting them think they can finish the dungeon?

I mean, if i make a party, and say speedrun, EXP only or zerker only, i’m not gonna allow scepter mesmers. But if i don’t care and say, write everyone welcome, i won’t just kick anyone just because they suck with their build. There’s others too.

PRO tip: Better kick someone on sight rather than allowing them to feel like they’ll finish the run with you, then kick them after the boss fight before they can get their rewards. They did just go trough the dungeon with you, and you did allow them in the party so at least let them finish, that 2-3 minutes of extra time from the lack of DPS isn’t going to hurt anyone, and there’s nothing worse than wasting people’s time by doing this…

Not after the boss fight obviously, after the first boss fight when I can see if they’re actually horrid or not.

Fay.2357:

maha.7902:

A few months ago there was an age of enlightenment in this subforum where people were forced to accept that greatsword is bad for dungeons – so maybe that enlightenment has filtered down in to pug groups.

I can’t remember what my exact numbers were, but GS @ 900> range was like 60% of 1h sword’s dps – and then if you include the fact that duelist and swordsmen are higher dps phantasms than berserker, it pulls ahead even further.

“berserker” isn’t good enough, you should be using the right weapons.

At least personally, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I won’t ever kick someone on sight, I’ll at least give them a chance to fight the first boss and see what happens. That being said, if I see a mesmer using Scepter/torch + staff during a boss fight, I’ll kick them immediately afterwards, and I’ll tell them why. I’m accepting up to a certain point, but I’m not willing to drag random pugs through dungeons for no reason whatsoever.

saw a pug running torch in AC yesterday

speed run zerker exp group

qq

Fay.2357:

Not after the boss fight obviously, after the first boss fight when I can see if they’re actually horrid or not.

Ah, that’s what you meant. That’s ok i suppose, but still, i’d rather be kicked out immediately rather than in the middle of the dungeon.

maxinion.8396:

saw a pug running torch in AC yesterday

speed run zerker exp group

qq

See? Now those people you kick out! It’s easy to find a party and they won’t have any trouble with it.