Guild Wars 2

I love Mesmer, but I feel a few improvements could be made.
I don’t fully expect each one to be used, and I have no doubt some have been mentioned, but I feel better having gotten my feedback out there.

Illusionary Leap

• One of the most awkward gap closers. The range is poor, as with other gap closers, but since it does NOTHING if out of range, it suffers more for it. The clone also tends to die quite often before you can swap places, and the cast time is clunky.
• Instead of the current functionality I propose the following: It first makes a Clone. Teleporting you a small distance or not, same as any other clone, and then you AND the Clone both use a leap forward attack, similar to the Guardian’s Leap of Faith (only without the blind and possibly less damage). If you are out of range, no Clone is created but you still leap foreward (again, same as Leap of Faith)
• This would improve the ‘flow’ oh melee gameplay, as well as make it not entirely botched if the enemy moves slightly before casting.

Clone Counter

• The current three dots that fill up to tell the Mesmer how many Clones and Phantasms they have serves it’s intent to a small extent, while not totally eliminating the need to try to hunt down what clones you have active.
• I propose: Have each little bubble instead be a little Icon. For Clones it can remain a solid circle, but for Phantasms it should be an icon indicating what Phantasm is out.
• For example: If I had 2 Illusionary Duelists and 1 Illusionary Swordsman, instead of 3 Purple dots, would see 3 dots, one with a small Pistol icon, and the other with a Sword icon.
• This would serve to make clones more manageable, and mean you can tell at all times what phantasms you have, making combat management somewhat easier on Mesmer without improving or altering power whatsoever.
• As a secondary idea: Have the dots empty out as the Illusions take damage. So a Illusion missing half it’s life would have half of it’s dot emptied, similar to the player health bars (but not needing to be as smooth)

Finesse

• Illusions that die as a result of thier target no longer being alive should use /bow before they die (their death coming near the end of the animation)
• this would simply provide flavor and flair, and suit the Mesmer style perfectly.

Clone vs Phantasm

• Clones that are generated semi-passively should not replace Phantasms.
• This includes Clones generated from the Scepter 1 attack, as well as the Dodge trait.
• Having to avoid these abilities as they will cut your damage down is just silly, and makes management of clones very awkward in dodge-heavy situations when you are using Phantasms for damage (aka PvE)

Moa Morph

• While I realize it is an ability carried over from Guild Wars 1, that does not mean it should be exempt from improvement and diversifying.
• There are many MANY instances of the player being turned into an animal during quests and events, so I propose that Moa Morph be replaced with an ability that has identical functionality, but turns them into a random animal, not always a Moa.
• Animals could include: Cow, Pig, Turtle, Chicken, Rabbit, Grub, Deer, and any other normally neutral animal.

That is all for now. No promises I won’t add more though.

I agree on Illusionary Leap. It just feels awkward. I would almost like it if it was reversed and you leapt, but the Illusion stayed, so you could almost use it similar to the Thief’s Sword 2 skill as a gap closer that turns into an escape. Your idea works well too, and might make it feel more ‘tricky’ and more likely to fool enemies.

Personally, I don’t think shatters should break Phantasms, but maybe that would be overpowered.

thenewzero.7246:

I agree on Illusionary Leap. It just feels awkward. I would almost like it if it was reversed and you leapt, but the Illusion stayed, so you could almost use it similar to the Thief’s Sword 2 skill as a gap closer that turns into an escape. Your idea works well too, and might make it feel more ‘tricky’ and more likely to fool enemies.

Personally, I don’t think shatters should break Phantasms, but maybe that would be overpowered.

If it made a clone and you lept it would be too obvious what one was real and what was the clone, where as making a clone then you and them both leaping would be properly confusing.

If Shatters didn’t break Phantasms it would be more of a nerf then a buff. Shatters are great finishers for Phantasm damage builds.

Major Trait: Deceptive Evasion

Currently, this trait creates Mesmer clones when evading (dodge rolling) that attack the nearest enemy instead of your selected target. This is incredibly irritating in both PvE & PvP. The clones should work like every other illusion by focusing your selected target at time of creation as priority. However, if there isn’t a target selected, then it should attack the nearest hostile enemy.

Greatsword: Mind Stab

This has been mentioned often elsewhere, but the ground targeting on Mind Stab feels rather clunky and lackluster for the greatsword. Even though it’s always had a cast/root during the animation, it still felt more fluid and effective as a player targeted skill compared to the way it’s working now. While the ground targeting is extremely effective in PvE and in choice situations in WvW, in most sPvP, it’s hardly worth using over other abilities to the extent that I’ve rarely seen it used effectively if used at all.

Also, the Greatsword for Mesmer lacks a Blast Finisher, so changing Mind Stab into one might be helpful as well. Either that, or having Mind Stab leave a 120 radius Light combo field for 2-5 seconds would be nice addition to the Greatsword including it’s overall group utility.

Sword: Illusionary Leap

Since reducing the range of this ability, it’s become rather unreliable and ineffective as a gap closer; it’s main purpose besides creating a clone and sometimes tricking your target. I’ve found with dual sword melee builds, I spend more time chasing my target with another weapon out instead of using the swords, or I end up relying heavily on Blink instead. Also, I’ve had too many experiences where my target was within the 600 range and wasn’t dodge rolling, but because I button-spammed the ability too quickly, it didn’t work.

Regardless of whether that last part is a bug or working as intended, the range should be increased to 900 or 1200 to make it once again effective for it’s main purpose as a gap closer.

Illusions: Phantasms

Phantasms are great… perhaps too great though. I feel Phantasm damage should be more supplemental to the Mesmer’s own damage instead of such a major source to the point that it does more damage than the player themselves.

I’d prefer to see Phantasm builds provide more utility to the player instead of mostly increasing the Illusion’s damage output and survivability to the extent that the player relies so heavily on them as their main damage source. Traits like Warden’s Feedback and Duelist’s Discipline come to mind when thinking about the utility changes I’d like to see for other Phantasms.

Examples: traits that improve the condition/boon duration of illusions, increase the effectiveness of their specific abilities, or perhaps, some existing traits could effect both the Mesmer and it’s Illusions, like Compounding Celerity increasing the movement speed of both depending on how many Illusions are created.

Also, the utility that some of the various Phantasms currently provide need some tweaks. For instance, iWarden spawns behind or to the side of the target instead of in front of it. If it spawned between you and your target, or if it was ground targeted to allow the player to decide it’s placement, the projectile deflection & traited reflection iWarden provides would actually be effective.

Interface: Illusion Counter

Change the color of the bubbles to indicate whether it’s a Clone or Phantasm. Example: Pink for Clones & Purple for Phantasms.

Bug: Utility Skill: Blink

After blinking to the target location, the character model will occasionally stop it’s movement animation, and it appears to “slide” across the ground without a running animation until the player jumps, activates an ability, or dodge rolls.

I agree with all of those.

(Even though I already covered some)

Indeed. I basically just ported over ideas from a thread I made over at gw2guru prior to release after playing Mesmer throughout all of the BWE’s and Stressers. I try to think of it like voting for “fix” priority… the more people bringing up the same issue, including varying ideas regarding how to improve it, might show the dev’s the importance of it to Mesmer community. If enough people express their concern for a specific issue, perhaps it’ll be addressed more quickly, or at least, whatever changes are implemented might be influenced by ideas provided by those who play and hopefully understand the profession.

ToxicToothpick.4396:

Clone Counter

• The current three dots that fill up to tell the Mesmer how many Clones and Phantasms they have serves it’s intent to a small extent, while not totally eliminating the need to try to hunt down what clones you have active.
• I propose: Have each little bubble instead be a little Icon. For Clones it can remain a solid circle, but for Phantasms it should be an icon indicating what Phantasm is out.
• For example: If I had 2 Illusionary Duelists and 1 Illusionary Swordsman, instead of 3 Purple dots, would see 3 dots, one with a small Pistol icon, and the other with a Sword icon.
• This would serve to make clones more manageable, and mean you can tell at all times what phantasms you have, making combat management somewhat easier on Mesmer without improving or altering power whatsoever.
• As a secondary idea: Have the dots empty out as the Illusions take damage. So a Illusion missing half it’s life would have half of it’s dot emptied, similar to the player health bars (but not needing to be as smooth)

I’m uncertain of some of the other ideas (not that I disagree with them, per se), BUT I agree 100% with all of this.

The 3 dots definitely need to present more information about both the types and health of the illusions out, or at least about the phantasms out. Right now, phantasm management in hectic situations is difficult, and I know I would use shatters more intelligently (on non-shatter builds) if I knew my phantasms were about to die anyway.

I will settle for the abilities not going on cooldown when you are not in range for it to have any effect.

ToxicToothpick.4396:

• Illusions that die as a result of thier target no longer being alive should use /bow before they die (their death coming near the end of the animation)

Amusing and clever. I like it.

For Illusionary Leap, what if it used the Flash mechanic instead of leaping, and used positioning to deceive the opponent? For example, “Flash to the side of your opponent, creating a clone on the opposite side. 50/50 chance of flashing to the left or right.” The randomness may not be the best way to go about it, but that would create a moment of hesitation in your opponent each time, plus it would allow you to use the ability at point blank range without your clone getting immediately attacked adjacent to you.

Shriketalon.1937:

ToxicToothpick.4396:

• Illusions that die as a result of thier target no longer being alive should use /bow before they die (their death coming near the end of the animation)

Amusing and clever. I like it.

For Illusionary Leap, what if it used the Flash mechanic instead of leaping, and used positioning to deceive the opponent? For example, “Flash to the side of your opponent, creating a clone on the opposite side. 50/50 chance of flashing to the left or right.” The randomness may not be the best way to go about it, but that would create a moment of hesitation in your opponent each time, plus it would allow you to use the ability at point blank range without your clone getting immediately attacked adjacent to you.

That would work as well, but the actual leap animation in GW2 is so badarse that it would be prefered. If you and the clone do it? Twice the badarse.

ToxicToothpick.4396:

That would work as well, but the actual leap animation in GW2 is so badarse that it would be prefered. If you and the clone do it? Twice the badarse.

Hmm.

What if you leaped to the target, stabbed him with the sword, vanished in a burst of pink butterflies, then reappeared to one side while a clone appeared on the other?

Three times the badarse.

Of all the proposals I think shirketalon has the best one. I find it annoying that my ilusions only do 2 damage on a crit(10 or so would be nice), but hey what can you do. My mesmer is 51 and I’m still trying to flesh out a good build I’ve been bouncing between playstyles since I started. By far my most meh weapon is the greatsword. And I can’t stand the level of fail that is on illusionary leap. I think a 900 range and not going on cooldown if it can’t work, would fix a lot of my problems with it. It not going off because they barely left range defeats the purpose of the skill.

After tonight’s patch, Mind Stab’s animation is now ~1s instead of ~3s which makes it worth using since it’s near instant in it’s activation with a very brief player root duration.

I think you guys should be more like… playing according the skills than trying to change the skills as you please..

yeah, the illusionary leap range is short.. but i still use it all the time without failing it.. even on sPvP.. and is incredibly awesome..
Also i’d disagree with the suggestion of having both you and the illusion jump on the target.. since u can use that swap as a dodge too, for either you (if u get attacking from bdhind by another enemy) or your illusion if u wanna.. save it or something.. also, ur illusion is not stationary so you gotta pay attention where is it at when you’r going to swap..
just get used to it rather than changing it in something you want..

if we go to that.. i’d like my illusionay warden to do all the hits in 1s rather than.. ~5?.. lol.. i could say how slooow the attacks are and how nerfed it is because of that(when it really isnt, if you use it propertly).. bla bla bla!!

Also dissagree with the clones not removing phantasm.. it adds certain lvl of decission making, if u have the trait u’d be like.. “should i dodge this and trade my DPS for survivality?” if u dont have the trait, u can have both..
if u’r using scepter u’d be like “should i do this 300 dmg hit rather than waiting 2s for the 3rd hit to reset back to the 1st one and not lose my 4k dmg phantasm?”.. etc etc.. we cant just have all the goodies in our class..

i do like the visual modifications.. the dot marker will hp refill and stuff would be really nice, the illusions dying with style if they succeded at killing their target.. etc..

and since last night.. Mind stab AND spatial surge are now incredibly fast.. pretty awesome to use lol.. they got some BS buff last night.. wtf.. is like twice or three times faster..
i might even start playing with GS more often now..

I want to see the buffs on GS tonight. It’s one of my favourite weapons but I always felt handicapped by the poor responsiveness of autos and Mind Stab (I basically used it for Mirror Blade and Berserker)

iLeap is fine in design tbh. Needs the range on the first part (clone spawn+leap+cripple) to be extended to 900. The swap can still by 600 imo.

EasymodeX.4062:

iLeap is fine in design tbh. Needs the range on the first part (clone spawn+leap+cripple) to be extended to 900. The swap can still by 600 imo.

I think this would help smooth out the issues with the ability. As someone else has mentioned, the GS changes are really nice, the weapon feel’s much better to use and more fluid.

ConterK.3972:

I think you guys should be more like… playing according the skills than trying to change the skills as you please..

Also dissagree with the clones not removing phantasm.. it adds certain lvl of decission making, if u have the trait u’d be like.. “should i dodge this and trade my DPS for survivality?” if u dont have the trait, u can have both..
if u’r using scepter u’d be like “should i do this 300 dmg hit rather than waiting 2s for the 3rd hit to reset back to the 1st one and not lose my 4k dmg phantasm?”.. etc etc.. we cant just have all the goodies in our class..

The problem is the awkwardness of it. I used to use sword/sword and scepter/pistol. I would start by using phantasmal swordsman, weapon swapping, then phantasmal duelist. Then i’d have to stall by using wasting all my other abilities, or turning around and running away just so I wouldn’t make a clone.

For greatsword, it means I can’t use mirror blade if i’m going for three phantasms. Theres no decision to be made – it would be flat out dumb to replace my phantasm with a clone.

So on Ulgoth, i go staff and any combination with a ranged phantasm now. I get my three up, get a good distance away and just sit there auto-attacking, because there is nothing else to do – Using any skill will either do nothing, or actually hurt my DPS.

Thats not a good design.

I agree on a lot of these things, here’s my take on what I would improve:

Illusionary Leap

• Clone spawns independent of range, has to run if farther than 600 though (won’t leap once in range, either!).
• Leap of the clone is pure range check, no pathfinding. In other words broken terrain can’t cause him to run if he’s closer than 600, exception only applies if there’s no path at all (i.e.: up keep walls).
• Swap is 1200 range.

Moa Morph

• I like the random animal idea, it could be even more confusing fun if the animals had slighly different abilities. This would also be a way to make this very viable underwater, by supporting animals such as sharks or sea scorpions.

Clone Counter

• Have the circle be light-pink for a Clone, purple for a Phantasm, with the symbol of the weapon overlayed for Phantasms.
• I wouldn’t do the HP-thing, too much information.

Finesse

• Awesome ideas!
• To add one, I would really like to see offhanders and more erratic (randomized) behaviour on clones, so that they are more confusing to enemies.

I thought about a way to add a decision for or against the shatter skills in different situations. Here is the result:
What about giving clones and phantasms a living time, like about 30 to 45 seconds I think, and changing the shatter skill F3 (or another one) to a new functionality, which changes the clone’s target to a new one (which is aimed by the mesmer at skill activation). This would solve a great problem in PvE, which is, that it takes long to build up the clones, but they’ll die right after the first target. With this new skill, they wouldn’t just die after the first one, if the mesmer is timing his skill well and focusing a new target right before the first dies. The living time would ensure, that the mesmer still has to create new clones, and not just setting them up once per fight. This skill would also give a new decision for shattering or changing the target. As it is now, you must shatter the clones, if the target is about to die.

What’s your opinion about that?

//Sorry, this is not exactly what the discussion is about, but it fits to the “Ways to Improve Mesmer”

I gotta say, my favorite idea of yours is the /bow of the clones. This needs to happen. You should make a separate thread for this one feature and get over 9k upvotes because it’s the best idea for mesmers I’ve heard all week.

Every other one of your ideas is also pretty phantastic! o_<