We may get a dps elite spec but it won’t be better than Chronomancer.
I hear time and again we have the lowest personal dps but through supporting others we do the dps of 2/3/4 extra players.
Meaning a new spec would have to make us do twice as much damage as top tier dps in order to cut it in a raid. That isn’t going to happen.
But this is not a problem for me. There are buttons for squad particpation to make supporting fair. I like Chronomancer. To nerf it so another elite spec is competive is deplorable.
However I may be misunderstanding the situation. Thoughts?
edit: think of the opportunity cost to team dps when bring a chronomancer vs a new dps spec.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
I understand your line of thinking, but I disagree. I think mesmer will definitely get a competitive dps spec, but due to the nature of elite specs you won’t have access to chronomancer or alacrity. Therefore mesmers will have to choose between playing support through chronomancer or dps. The exclusivity is what makes it “balanced”, and you can’t really compare two elite specs like that saying one is better than the other, since they fill completely different roles.
That’s my 2 cents anyway, as someone who dropped mesmer for thief until we can do something more than spit out quickness and alacrity in group content.
I agree with caerulean. It’s not like two different Elite spec Mesmers would be automaticly forbidden or bad.
Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”
I think Daniel is making an argument on whether the opportunity cost for DPS spec is worth it when raid groups DO want an optimal build. Unfortunately I don’t think we can draw any trace of conclusion without a single hint on what other classes get/what we’ll get.
Heck, someone else might do better quickness job than us eventually.
I disagree with the initial logic. A DPS mesmer elite spec would only require us to do about as much DPS as a staff ele or DD. A little less than that would be fine. It may not be taken for record runs but wouldn’t be shunned too bad. Another way of looking at it is that you would still bring a chrono/druid/PS and then the extra DPS spots could be filled with other DPS mesmers if desired. Alternatively, the chrono and new elite spec could work together with SoI and timewarp on both builds.
However, chrono holds back a new mesmer DPS elite spec in a more insidious manner. A new mesmer elite spec will still have phantasms being a major source of damage. Maybe not 50-60% but it’ll still be a huge chunk unless drastic changes are made. Alacrity/quickness from the chrono wouldn’t affect that portion of the DPS mesmer but Chrono is extremely likely to stay in a raid comp even with the new round of elite specs.
Edit: Stuff like frost spirit and gotl will also not affect phantasms. Any new elite spec buffs that aren’t raw stats in general. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, all of our damage modifiers need to affect phantasms.
First of all based on the math the support that Warrior and Ranger provide add more to the raid’s dps then Chrono.
Second Raids aren’t the only PvE content. The DPS problems (both the amount and the mechanics behind how we do our damage) are really more prevalent living story/open world/zerg tagging. Whats important is that the elite specs doesn’t just buff our damage its that it deals with the problems that Mesmer damage has, high ramp up times, lack of AoE/cleave, switching targerts tanking our dps, phantasms melting in large scale WvW.
Third, it plays into the play the way you want to promise when they were making the game. Theres no reason why Mesmer players shouldn’t be able to play as dps if they want to.
Fourth, a DPS Mesmer wouldn’t be replacing the Chrono in a raid. It would be an alternative to the theif/ele/guardian etc. It could also come with other kinds of support so it could be an alternative way of providing fury or might for example.
I disagree with the initial logic. A DPS mesmer elite spec would only require us to do about as much DPS as a staff ele or DD. A little less than that would be fine. It may not be taken for record runs but wouldn’t be shunned too bad. Another way of looking at it is that you would still bring a chrono/druid/PS and then the extra DPS spots could be filled with other DPS mesmers if desired. Alternatively, the chrono and new elite spec could work together with SoI and timewarp on both builds.
However, chrono holds back a new mesmer DPS elite spec in a more insidious manner. A new mesmer elite spec will still have phantasms being a major source of damage. Maybe not 50-60% but it’ll still be a huge chunk unless drastic changes are made. Alacrity/quickness from the chrono wouldn’t affect that portion of the DPS mesmer but Chrono is extremely likely to stay in a raid comp even with the new round of elite specs.
Edit: Stuff like frost spirit and gotl will also not affect phantasms. Any new elite spec buffs that aren’t raw stats in general. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, all of our damage modifiers need to affect phantasms.
Your second point is the source of the initial logic. We would have to do as much damage as a staff ele on buffs,
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
We may get a dps elite spec but it won’t be better than Chronomancer.
I hear time and again we have the lowest personal dps but through supporting others we do the dps of 2/3/4 extra players.
So whenever I do Living Story I’m supposed to drag along with me 2-4 extra players just because I’m a Mesmer? So their dps counts as my dps? Do I see their numbers in my damage box? I suppose you think that those 20 people that you made a portal for in WvW roaming count towards your dps too? What about when you are a commander? All those people count toward your total damage?
It’s not like a prfession is always only about dps … for example if the new elite spec would have 28k dps you would still pick it over a 30k thief if the enviorment is full of reflectable projectiles. Just one example.
Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”
I disagree with the initial logic. A DPS mesmer elite spec would only require us to do about as much DPS as a staff ele or DD. A little less than that would be fine. It may not be taken for record runs but wouldn’t be shunned too bad. Another way of looking at it is that you would still bring a chrono/druid/PS and then the extra DPS spots could be filled with other DPS mesmers if desired. Alternatively, the chrono and new elite spec could work together with SoI and timewarp on both builds.
However, chrono holds back a new mesmer DPS elite spec in a more insidious manner. A new mesmer elite spec will still have phantasms being a major source of damage. Maybe not 50-60% but it’ll still be a huge chunk unless drastic changes are made. Alacrity/quickness from the chrono wouldn’t affect that portion of the DPS mesmer but Chrono is extremely likely to stay in a raid comp even with the new round of elite specs.
Edit: Stuff like frost spirit and gotl will also not affect phantasms. Any new elite spec buffs that aren’t raw stats in general. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, all of our damage modifiers need to affect phantasms.
Your second point is the source of the initial logic. We would have to do as much damage as a staff ele on buffs,
I didn’t get that impression from the first post but fair enough.
The base mesmer will still be able to bring TW, SoI, distortion share and reflects/portal if needed. So with all that support built into the base class, we won’t need to match the Ele which brings nothing but DPS (or healing if they tank their damage). I’d be ok being able to comfortably hit 25k with realistic buffs on a practical wind up time.
So whenever I do Living Story I’m supposed to drag along with me 2-4 extra players just because I’m a Mesmer?
Right. I think many of the generic requests for a “dps spec” are misleading. Really what people want is just not to be hamstrung by our class mechanic in open world and living story content. More of a “solo spec” or “selfish spec” than a “dps spec”.
We may get a dps elite spec but it won’t be better than Chronomancer.
I hear time and again we have the lowest personal dps but through supporting others we do the dps of 2/3/4 extra players.
So whenever I do Living Story I’m supposed to drag along with me 2-4 extra players just because I’m a Mesmer? So their dps counts as my dps? Do I see their numbers in my damage box? I suppose you think that those 20 people that you made a portal for in WvW roaming count towards your dps too? What about when you are a commander? All those people count toward your total damage?
Perhaps. But will you be satisfied if the spec is only useful in solo content?
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
We may get a dps elite spec but it won’t be better than Chronomancer.
I hear time and again we have the lowest personal dps but through supporting others we do the dps of 2/3/4 extra players.
So whenever I do Living Story I’m supposed to drag along with me 2-4 extra players just because I’m a Mesmer? So their dps counts as my dps? Do I see their numbers in my damage box? I suppose you think that those 20 people that you made a portal for in WvW roaming count towards your dps too? What about when you are a commander? All those people count toward your total damage?
Perhaps. But will you be satisfied if the spec is only useful in solo content?
Making a true DPS spec for mesmer wouldn’t have to be just solo content. It could be in the same situation DH was before the recent buffs. Acceptable DPS with the bonus of some support options, you could still bring signet of inspiration to bounce boons periodically, you could bring feedback, and pulls. Basically you could have less dps than a thief but still be preferred on a fight because you’ve got utility.
And, what’s the alternative for the next elite spec? What is Mesmer missing? Healing or DPS, and I’d prefer DPS.
Thing is, Mesmer already has a ranged power weapon: greatsword. I am not saying it is perfect but I’think the next weapon that would be made would be either:
-Melee condi main hand weapon (axe or dagger?)
-Healing 2-handed weapon (hammer or riffle?)
Healing could also have a main hand weapon but then there would not be any phantasm attached to it and I don’t see a healing spec without a signature phantasm.
I think the biggest problem with us having a DPS spec is how our damage is affected by shatter and by clones/phantasms. We are dependent on those for our dps, and I’m not sure how a dps spec can be balanced with those as they currently stand.
I think the biggest problem with us having a DPS spec is how our damage is affected by shatter and by clones/phantasms. We are dependent on those for our dps, and I’m not sure how a dps spec can be balanced with those as they currently stand.
Elite spec, phantasms no longer manifest as separate entities but instead give you their skills along with a substantial damage bonus and ‘charges’ to empower your shatter skills.
So you say use Sword phantasm, instead of summoning the phantasm you leap in and hit a large damage attack and then get a stack of ‘phantasmal empowerment’ which is a stacking 25% damage bonus and shatters work off how many stacks of that you have.
Something like that, I don’t want to waste time, but point is it can be done with an elite spec.
If we got a dps spec that allowed us to frontline, like a quasi reaper, but put out less overall damage in group support would people be okay with that?
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Obviously, a new dps elite spec would need to sacrifice a substantial amount of group support. And I definitely agree with some of the previous posters – for such a spec, the current shatter/phantasm mechanics would need to be replaced by something new, which isn’t dragged down by the current ramp up and target issues.
Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.
If we got a dps spec that allowed us to frontline, like a quasi reaper, but put out less overall damage in group support would people be okay with that?
Very much so! Just like other classes you would have the options to spec more into a support role, if that was your thing. Not to reference WOW but Death knights are a good example. You could be a tank build and do decent dps as well but if you wanted you could go pure dps, Frost or Unholy, and still be looked at for raids and such.
I know Mesmers can do that but the argument is around the fact that our overall dps is just lacking. I have faith though and its still a fun as class to play!!
If we got a dps spec that allowed us to frontline, like a quasi reaper, but put out less overall damage in group support would people be okay with that?
Very much so! Just like other classes you would have the options to spec more into a support role, if that was your thing. Not to reference WOW but Death knights are a good example. You could be a tank build and do decent dps as well but if you wanted you could go pure dps, Frost or Unholy, and still be looked at for raids and such.
I know Mesmers can do that but the argument is around the fact that our overall dps is just lacking. I have faith though and its still a fun as class to play!!
Our spec and skill system isn’t nearly as interchangeable as what I remember from WoW. I don’t think it will be as easy as everyone else thinks.
