Guild Wars 2

So, yeah. As we all know, ANet’s been pushing “QOL Enhancements” onto Mantras, in an attempt to make them more usable. So my question is:

Out of all the modifications to Mantra mechanics in the past months, why have they NOT fixed the fact that Mantras are CANCELLED when you enter or exit a body of water?

I mean, seriously … you have a breather on, you can talk. What The Kitten?

EDIT: I’ve had charges vanish when I enter or exit water. But a test right after this topic has me retaining charges on Distraction. The others still crap out, though.

Advent.6193:

So, yeah. As we all know, ANet’s been pushing “QOL Enhancements” onto Mantras, in an attempt to make them more usable. So my question is:

Out of all the modifications to Mantra mechanics in the past months, why have they NOT fixed the fact that Mantras are CANCELLED when you enter or exit a body of water?

I mean, seriously … you have a breather on, you can talk. What The Kitten?

EDIT: I’ve had charges vanish when I enter or exit water. But a test right after this topic has me retaining charges on Distraction. The others still crap out, though.

You should have same skill setup underwater. Then mantras stay charged. IHave MofR as 7 in both setups and it newer loosing charges

Hmmm … gonna try that next time I’m ingame.

What QOL changes are you referring to besides slightly lowering the charge time to 2.75 sec a while ago? Are there changes to Mantras in feature patch?

They did also grant AoE functionality to a couple of ’em. Small AoE, mind you, but still an “upgrade.”

Frankly, I wish we could convince the Devs to go with a hold-button-to-charge mindset. Especially if it came with selectable levels of effectiveness.

We need a trait to shorten charge time significantly, or just have it shortened baseline.

Your skills only change if you go under the surface. As long as you stay on the surface of the water (where your skills are disabled), the mantras stay the way they are. But yeah, it sucks. I would like not to be forced to run the exact same skill setup under and above water if I use mantras.

MSFone.3026:

We need a trait to shorten charge time significantly, or just have it shortened baseline.

They should get rid of Furious Interruption and replace it with 2s quickness on completing a charge. Keep the cooldown 15s. That way you get a quick charge as a reward for completing a slow charge, or you can just spend it on some quick auto-attacks or a phantasm.

They should have new trait that gives passive mantra charge. Add a charge to a random equipped mantra every 10 seconds or something.

Or maybe a mantra charge on every kill.

There are two options that would make me at least consider Mantras, either remove them and take them from thought completely or make them like a stance the way they were in GW1. Until then, they’re useless.

I love mantras honestly and I love that so few people use them! Thats just me though, been using them since launch

I find they stack quite well with a Prismatic Understanding build. It’s much easier to pull off that cast time when you are stealthed.

Signet of Mantras
Passive – Every 30 seconds, add 1 charge to all Mantras
Active – Gain 4s of reflection whenever channeling mantras for the next 10 seconds
Cool down: 50 seconds

I’m not confident on the numbers there. Opinions on the OP/UPness of them? Or is that just a ridiculous idea? haha

The passive effect would make mantras a lot more viable, since the biggest drawback is channeling. It’d be somewhat of a blow to mantra tanks, because that’s one less mantra in your utility slot to help AOE healing.

The active effect has some synergy with the trait that adds toughness when channeling. Again, this trait would make channeling not as dangerous.

@OP
Ptolemy is right.

@Everyone
You guys really need to abandon the notion that there shouldn’t be a drawback to equipping mantras. The whole point of making the skills charge cast time take so long is that we have very useful skills with almost no cooldown and usable at any point, after it’s charged. Now I know you pve guys don’t like it, but that’s why there are other builds. If these were available passively it would be a disaster for pvp. Everything needs counter-play, whether you like it or not. The thing I wouldn’t be opposed to is a trait that reduces the charge cast relative to how many mantras you have slotted.

MailMail.6534:

The passive effect would make mantras a lot more viable, since the biggest drawback is channeling.

But the real problem, at least to me, is not so much that you are channeling, it is the loss of DPS/pressure because of channeling. Mantras were supposed to be used together I assume, but they have next to no synergy. None of them apply any conditions directly, so they do very little for a condition build in terms of offense. MoP offers nothing except low power damage. MoD requires heavy investment in interrupt traits to do anything much, but it’s probably the most viable one in terms of setting up a kill.

Retal won’t make up for these problems, but the general idea is okay. The real problem is that slotting several mantras adds a bunch of micro-managing to your utility skills with very little payoff other than defensive benefits.

I’ve found that with heavy mantra builds I spend a lot of time just making my own skills fire in the correct order while the enemy can usually just 1-1-1-1 and be as effective as me. Running one or two mantras is great because it’s only a little extra work for double-use (mostly defensive) skills that can’t be interrupted. But more than that and you start to bog yourself down in your skill rotations. It almost feels like playing healer in certain other games, always watching skills and bars instead of the actual fight.

I’m not saying there shouldn’t be drawbacks. And btw, I’m a pvp purist. I’m just saying that the drawbacks are so large that a majority of players, pvpers included, don’t run the build. It’s all about options. If you were to run the signet I suggested, that means you’re running one less mantra, which is of course another drawback. There should be more options to make the build more viable.

I totally see your point there Calavel. Using a heavy mantra build is like willingly imparting OCD onto yourself.

Still, I don’t think the answer is adding dps pressure to mantras. A successful MoD/MoP glass cannon is MORE than enough for me to handle. I’ve seen them in action. Scary stuff. lol I think the general idea of the signet I suggested is a step in the right direction though.

MailMail.6534:

I’m not saying there shouldn’t be drawbacks. And btw, I’m a pvp purist. I’m just saying that the drawbacks are so large that a majority of players, pvpers included, don’t run the build. It’s all about options. If you were to run the signet I suggested, that means you’re running one less mantra, which is of course another drawback. There should be more options to make the build more viable.

The drawbacks are large for multiple mantras. Running one is still pretty viable. Also what you suggested completely makes getting and channeling mantras a safe passive thing with no punishment at all. How is that fair to anyone?

Raunchy, that’s what I’m talking about: running classic mantra builds. There’d be no point in running the signet if you were only running one mantra. lol

Maybe the times I suggested are off, but I’m asking about the general design of it.

MailMail.6534:

Raunchy, that’s what I’m talking about: running classic mantra builds. There’d be no point in running the signet if you were only running one mantra. lol

Maybe the times I suggested are off, but I’m asking about the general design of it.

I’m also talking about the general design. If anything it should be a trait not a utility, and it should only reward people using multiple mantras not just one.

Using mantra’s is a skill in itself, knowing when and how to charge your mantra’s (stealth, stability, etc). This is especially true in large fights where you can be particularly vulnerable charging them. However that being said, traited right will pay off the cast time for sure especially if used right. So anyone who wants mantra’s to change the core mechanic or make it easier to cast, without trait help, has the wrong mentality. Building on that, I’m all for some new traits to broaden the ability of mantra’s if people are willing to delve into some trait lines for them and not just for anet to change mantra’s because people don’t like the cast time. Using mantra’s is a skill, so learn it, you might just have fun.

Eh. My idea of a hold-button-to-charge system would at least add “levels” of control to the overall situation. For example, imagine a reworked MoD, where, depending on how long you charge it, could offer a variety of stun times. (say 1/1.5/2 sec). It would simply seem a little more “fighting game-esque” in overall style, which (IMHO) would be a better fit in an “active” combat system. /shrugs

Believe me, I know full well we’re stuck with some sort of “down time” on the darn things. I just would like a more fluid system.

Advent.6193:

Eh. My idea of a hold-button-to-charge system would at least add “levels” of control to the overall situation. For example, imagine a reworked MoD, where, depending on how long you charge it, could offer a variety of stun times. (say 1/1.5/2 sec). It would simply seem a little more “fighting game-esque” in overall style, which (IMHO) would be a better fit in an “active” combat system. /shrugs

Believe me, I know full well we’re stuck with some sort of “down time” on the darn things. I just would like a more fluid system.

My only issue with that idea is that with multiple stacks it has the possibility of being abused. Especially stacking MoD with CS and mesmer runes.

I want a grandmaster trait where if someone interrupts me while I’m charging a matra they get 5 stacks of confusion on themselves. Counter to a counter, just how mesmers should be

The core problem with mantras is that they have no unified role. The only thing they have in common is their penalty.

Arenanet seems to have decided that mantras should be the main support utility for the mesmer, but they disregard the fact that the original mantra skills had zero supportive capacity whatsoever. They used to be a single target damage spike, single target daze, self stability, and self cleanse. Now the latter have a pathetic AoE to share with the party, but it is still not a core support skillset.

Sure, traits can give them a supportive function, but that still encounters the problem of no unified purpose. Since the penalty is the sole thing mantras have in common, there is nothing traits can modify except the charge mechanic. You can’t have traits like “All allies effected by your mantra get X”, because only half the mantras can help your allies. Likewise, the way mantra healing works, the most boring mantra is a necessity due to its low skill recharge. Meanwhile, non-support mantras can’t get any direct trait support, since you cannot have mechanics like “deal enhanced damage with mantras”, and it’s ridiculously expensive to try to make the interrupt benefit from both interrupt traits and mantra enhancements.

To make mantras better, they need to take a step back and ask “what are these utilities supposed to accomplish”, then make them fulfill that purpose with everything they’ve got.

What goal could they possibly have for them? Imo they wanted mantras to mirror shatters, in a sense, so we got what we have now. I personally can’t think of their reasoning for mantras, but maybe you’re right and one day they’ll make all mantras have a common goal. I’m highly skeptical of that though.

We have the skill channeling visual effects to charge the Mantras. The biggest drawback is definitely the lack of visual skill activation (like Mantra of Pain shows nothing) and number of Mantra charges.

I said this in a previous Mantra discussion but it’s worth mentioning again. What we need is some kind of visual cue to know how many charges a Mantra has. I get you need a highly skilled player to micro-manage the Mantras, but seriously, no one wants to squint down at the subscript to see how many charges are left in the middle of a fight.

We need something like Mimic, where a caught projectile is indicated by a glowing orb on the arm. So a charged Mantra of Recovery will have 2 blue orbs on the back, Mantra of Pain will have 2 purple orbs on the main hand, Mantra of Concentration will have a yellow orb on either leg to indicate Stability, etc. Just throwing out ideas, because I feel like Mantras were literally given like 2 days development.

mambastik.8735:

I said this in a previous Mantra discussion but it’s worth mentioning again. What we need is some kind of visual cue to know how many charges a Mantra has. I get you need a highly skilled player to micro-manage the Mantras, but seriously, no one wants to squint down at the subscript to see how many charges are left in the middle of a fight.

That’s easy. The skill icon itself.

Hang on, give me two seconds in a paint program…

…rough sketch, but it should get the point across. Should probably use a more contrasting value or something, but that’s another matter.

calavel.6249:

Your skills only change if you go under the surface. As long as you stay on the surface of the water (where your skills are disabled), the mantras stay the way they are. But yeah, it sucks. I would like not to be forced to run the exact same skill setup under and above water if I use mantras.

MSFone.3026:

We need a trait to shorten charge time significantly, or just have it shortened baseline.

They should get rid of Furious Interruption and replace it with 2s quickness on completing a charge. Keep the cooldown 15s. That way you get a quick charge as a reward for completing a slow charge, or you can just spend it on some quick auto-attacks or a phantasm.

what about each mantra you cast shortens the cast time of the next one by 1s ?

They should just give us an elite mantra, Mantra Mastery or something. Each charge instantly charges all your mantras.

I wouldn’t mind seeing a trait like this. – Enemy attackers who strike you while channeling a mantra receive a random condition. ( bleed , burn , confusion , torment )

It would help a little on the lost dps while channeling.

Is there a mantra build that uses the mantras that are equiped? As far as I know that’s rarely the case and if you equip more than one mantra it is for the passiv damage boost most of the time. What’s needed is a system where mantras don’t add the full charge time when you play with more than one. Like some have suggested if you charge a mantra the next one will take a shorter charge time.

My suggestion would be to make harmonious mantras the trait to implement something like that because, right now it isn’t that harmonious. It does buff single mantras but adds no synergie between different mantras and it actually hurts some of them to be balanced around the option to be used 3 times in a row. MoPain and MoConcentration in particular are rather weak on their own.

Something like that would support the active play with mantras instead of the passiv boost play.

My opinion regarding mantras and what’s wrong with mantra builds.