Well of Precognition QoL

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Zephyric Reaper.3049

Zephyric Reaper.3049

So, this well is considered to be one of the least useful ones out there. It’s The only utility one that doesn’t deal any dmg, inflict any condition, has a moderately high CD and provides a questionable defensive buff. The aegis is only useful when fighting one target in PVE, more than one and it’s no better than blind (or one that attacks too fast or ticks too quickly). It does give you some endurance though, but needing to stand on it the whole duration makes it questionable given the need to not dodge out of the well.

This utility suffers from the annoying part of being a stunbreaker channel which means it can be cancelled and it does not reset the cooldown. If you happen to need to cancel it or pop out a priority move like a heal then it will go down to its LONG cooldown.
Given its naturally long cooldown it’s terrible for alacrity fodder and to top it all, it has what feels to be the longest animation for an aegis-applying skill. Usually aegis is used to block attacks in a timely manner and given it’s short-ish duration it makes no sense for the well to have such a long cast time.

All in all, this well feels underwhelming and clunky to use. Ironically, it’s all because of bad tuning, it’s all tuned for its previous version of giving everybody evasion.

I believe this version could use a few improvements:
- No cast time and being able to cast timely (like feedback)
Like most other stunbreakers, it doesn’t need one, it breaks the skill completely.
- Lower cooldown
Other wells generally don’t have a terribly long cooldown for a small effect, it should be at least 25s.
-Pulse for every half a second as opposed to one per second
Because it simply can’t block much or anything when there’s more than one target.

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Also this well breaks the entire concept of backloading that the other Wells have, because it’s final tick is quite frankly a bad joke someone played on Mesmers.

I wouldn’t even mind the Aegis staying the way it is, but when this Well finishes it should apply something like 5 seconds of Protection to allies and 10-20 stacks of Vulnerability to enemies caught in the well.

Right now the final tick does basically nothing noticeable at all. (Which was relatively OK when the Well was handing out 3x one second pulses of Evade. As you said, this Well was just very poorly tuned in typical Anet knee-jerk fashion.)

It’s sickening and totally unacceptable that another post-season “balance” patch just passed, and none of these glaring issues get touched. I have not found any reason to participate this season, with literally no meaningful changes to the sickeningly stupid DH/Warrior meta.

I guess I might wait what silliness the next expansion brings in hope of Anet making both this games PvP and this profession fun again. I just can’t get motivated to play another season of bad match-making, FoTY profession stacking, and being pigeonholed to play a single semi-viable but boring build.

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Takashiro.8701

Takashiro.8701

Yeah, the endurance regen on the final tick is really lackluster. The only type of content where you could realistically utilize the endurance regen would be in raiding, but no one would even think to run precoc simply because of how hard the other wells (and mesmer support skills in general) overshadow it.

I heard it got nerfed originally because it could almost guarantee revives/stomps in pvp. Now that they have the possibility to balance skills seperatly, i would really like them to reconsider buffing it again to its former self in atleast PvE. Or just close to it would be enough, like putting the 3 secs evade back in and leaving the endurance regen out.. which probably wouldn’t be noticed anyway. Not many people in open world care about wells and even if they magically happen to stand inside one, the chance that they will be in need of endurance and utilize it after gaining it (not standing around for the rest of the fight anyway) is way too small.

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

I think wells in general need to be reworked or changed. They give you 3 seconds to react before the backloaded third tick happens, and the effects are not nearly strong enough considering enemies have 3 seconds of warning to GTFO. Similarly, the effects on WoP and WoR are nowhere near strong enough considering you have to wait 3 seconds after casting to gain the full effects.

But yes, I do agree that WoP is probably in the worst shape.

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

I’d more or less inverse the effect I think, and align it to the ticking-(positive|negative)/final-(negative|positive) most of the other wells have:

Well of Precognition
Creates a well of temporal and spatial precognition. Allies within the well get a stacking effect for every second they stay inside. When the well ends, enemies inside are marked, and cannot hit allies with the well effect for the duration of that effect.
Ticking effect duration: 1s (this stacks, and only starts counting down once the well ends)
Enemy debuff duration: 3s

Meaning that it’s effectively 3s of invulnerability, but it comes out delayed any can be avoided if the enemy dodges/blocks the final effect.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Takashiro.8701

Takashiro.8701

I’d more or less inverse the effect I think, and align it to the ticking-(positive|negative)/final-(negative|positive) most of the other wells have:

Well of Precognition
Creates a well of temporal and spatial precognition. Allies within the well get a stacking effect for every second they stay inside. When the well ends, enemies inside are marked, and cannot hit allies with the well effect for the duration of that effect.
Ticking effect duration: 1s (this stacks, and only starts counting down once the well ends)
Enemy debuff duration: 3s

Meaning that it’s effectively 3s of invulnerability, but it comes out delayed any can be avoided if the enemy dodges/blocks the final effect.

If you get knockbacked/pulled out before the final tick you lose the stacking buff? So it’s kind of like a shadow refugee for mesmer’s? I really like this idea.

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

No, you wouldn’t lose it but it wouldn’t last as long.

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Alpha.1308

Alpha.1308

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

If you get knockbacked/pulled out before the final tick you lose the stacking buff? So it’s kind of like a shadow refugee for mesmer’s? I really like this idea.

Hrm, that’s another way to implement it. I was thinking more that I would have X seconds of the buff if I get pulled out, but without the enemy being inside at the end of the well, and them hence not getting the debuff, that’s not doing anything.

To get the full-invulnerability effect, I both need the stacks of the buff I get from being inside during the ticks, and I need the enemy to get hit by the final tick.

Although now that you mention it, flipping those (tick is a stacking debuff, final pulse is a buff to allies) would probably be better both for PvE and PvP balance, crippling mobility in raids if you want to use it, and allowing PvP players to pull you out before the final tick (they’d still have the debuff, but without you having the buff that’s not doing anything).

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Something that might be simpler to implement (maybe, I have no real idea), is if the well can foresee any cleanses that the enemy players will do after it ends. It gives them a stacking debuff on each pulse. For each stack, the next time they cleanse conditions 1 condition will randomly not be cleansed. Turns it into a great area denial tool, since with heavy condi pressure you could get about 3 seconds where they wouldn’t want to step on the well at all. But it also makes it a lot more offensive.

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

Yeah but Ori, that’d be entirely useless in PvE then, which is kind of meh for a design.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

I mean we still have an entire elite spec that is useless outside of PvP with Scrapper so….. As much as I don’t like stuff being designed specifically for PvP, 1 or 2 skills isn’t that bad in my opinion.

Edit – And I didn’t mean to suggest removing the aegis or stab that it currently gives. This would be an additional effect to it

(edited by OriOri.8724)

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Takashiro.8701

Takashiro.8701

I’d say precoc should be similar to recall, in that it has really good use for you and allies but doesn’t do that much against enemys. The “friendly” effect basically being the discussed one here.

Effect for you and allies: Gain 1 stacking buff with each pulse. If you stand inside the well when the final tick hits, you gain 1 sec blur for each stack you had.
Effect for enemys: Get 1-2 stacks of vulnerability per pulse.
As Precoc lets you “see the future” it should be an easy thing for you to hit them right where it hurts.

Idk, I’d argue that the enemy effect is not even needed and that the blur one is good enough, but we can dream right?

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Ariurotl.3718

Ariurotl.3718

I believe this version could use a few improvements:
- No cast time and being able to cast timely (like feedback)
Like most other stunbreakers, it doesn’t need one, it breaks the skill completely.
- Lower cooldown
Other wells generally don’t have a terribly long cooldown for a small effect, it should be at least 25s.
-Pulse for every half a second as opposed to one per second
Because it simply can’t block much or anything when there’s more than one target.

Literally none of your suggestions can be considered QoL. Not a single one of them. Why do people keep saying “QoL” when they really mean “buff”?

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Being able to inst cast a stunbreak is a huge QoL feature.

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Ariurotl.3718

Ariurotl.3718

Being able to inst cast a stunbreak is a huge QoL feature.

Uh, no. In this case, it’s a fix more than it is a buff, but it’s still a functional change. Not QoL in the usual video game meaning of the term.

(edited by Ariurotl.3718)

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Exciton.8942

Exciton.8942

It would be a fair change to make its cast time back to 1/4 sec.

It used to be 1/4 sec but was too strong when it gave evade/distortion effect so it was nerfed to 3/4 sec cast time. But now pulsing aegis, it is pretty underwhelming so it should at least get back its 1/4 sec cast time.

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Being able to inst cast a stunbreak is a huge QoL feature.

Uh, no. In this case, it’s a fix more than it is a buff, but it’s still a functional change. Not QoL in the usual video game meaning of the term.

QoL features can also be buffs, which is something you are ignoring. But it would most definitely be a QoL feature, even under the “usual” video game meaning of the term.

Stunbreaks are the only skills able to break you out of a stun, they are few and far between. And every other stunbreak in the game is instant cast except WoP. They are insta-cast, because it doesn’t make sense to allow your stunbreaks to be interrupted. A 3/4 cast time is easy to interrupt.

Instant cast, or even just 1/4 sec cast, would be a huge QoL feature for this skill.

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

New proposed change for Well of Precognition. This one takes it back to its defensive nature.

Well of Precognition – 1/4 sec cast time. 30sec CD. Each pulse grants 2 stacks of stab for 0.75 seconds and 15 endurance refilled. First 2 pulses grant 3 sec aegis, third pulse grants 1 sec blur.

The additional stab makes it harder to strip it through CC, but the .75 sec base duration means that if you don’t have any boon duration you are left open for a well timed CC still. Endurance regained is increased by 50% if you stand inside the well for each tick, but it still guarantees at least a bit of endurance for anyone who was in the well for a single tick. And blur on the last tick makes it much more defensive than a single aegis.

Alternatively, it could be changed to just 1 stack of stab per tick, but have the base duration be 1-1.25 seconds each tick. Easier to strip the stab this way, but also you are guaranteed to not have any gaps in your uptime (assuming you don’t eat any CC).

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

BTW I lamented about the Stun Break not being instant a while back and Fay corrected me in that. I believe I went and tested it too, but it’s been a while.

Anyway, the Stun Break portion of the WoP is indeed instant.

Yes, I agree that both the ticks and especially the final tick need a pretty significant boost to make this Well worthwhile. What OriOri proposes above is not the only way, but sounds like a decent enough suggestion that provides a meaningful 3rd tick while slightly boosting the initial ticks. (Though would prefer the 1 stack of Stab per tick for 1 second.)

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Pregnantman.8259

Pregnantman.8259

Its a well that pulses Aegis for the party and even gives some endurance. Why do you want it to give overpowered stuff like blur or 30 sec cooldown when its already stronger than most other party defense skills other classes have?

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Do you play chronomancer? Honest question, not trying to be rude. Because its just a very underpowered skill in general and I don’t think you are using it based on your comment.

Its a small AoE field for a support field (only 240 radius), and its a total of 3 stacks of aegis over 3 seconds. Every single class can get out more than 3 attacks in 3 seconds, and some of them can pump out 3+ attacks in a single second when under quickness. So those aegis stacks aren’t exactly 3 seconds of constant defense. Then the stab is applied only to you, not to party members, and the endurance regen, while extremely nice, is lackluster considering you have to wait 3 seconds after getting the cast off, and its only 30 endurance refilled. Its just underwhelming as a support/defensive skill.

Plus, Anet’s official statement of Chronomancer wells includes this statement “When time is up, the well releases a powerful burst effect.”, which implies that the third tick should be substantially stronger than the first 2. And indeed on other wells this is the case. WoC does most of its damage on the last tick, WoA gives you 4 sec quickness on its last tick, WoE has its strongest heal on the last tick, WoR grants 5 sec alacrity on the last tick. Yet for WoP, the last effect is the exact same as the first two ticks, except with a lousy 30 endurance, which doesn’t even help you that much considering the theme of the skill (aegis to prevent you from needing to dodge in the first place).

The changes I proposed 2 comments up do two things. First, they buff its rather underwhelming defensive capabilities by also giving out stab on each pulse, which could help a lot in PvE. Second, they fulfill the stated requirement of having the third tick be a more powerful burst effect, by giving out 1 sec blur. Its only 1 second, so nothing near what it was at release, but still enough to warrant thinking twice about the skill. And then having each tick grant endurance regen instead of the last one is a nice QoL feature, and allows for the total endurance regained to be upped while remaining balanced, since it would require standing in a small AoE for 3 seconds to get all 45 endurance out of it.

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Pregnantman.8259

Pregnantman.8259

I have started playing chrono recently but before that I played DH a lot, which is, or was, the party block class. So I can say that in PvE for attacks that can be blocked, this skill one of the best in game considering its cooldown, pulsing nature and versatility.

As the skill pulses Aegis per second, there is room for attacks to land on you (a small window if you consider the attack speeds in PvE) so you can dodge inside the well to evade those attacks while your Aegis is ready to block right after your dodge ends, after which you get most of your endurance back.

(edited by Pregnantman.8259)

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Even if PvE its underwhelming honestly, and its just useless in PvP due to unblockable attacks and the speed at which attacks come at you. That’s why 1 aegis each second is honestly really, really bad.

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Pregnantman.8259

Pregnantman.8259

As far as utility skills go its among the best that provide party defense. The hard hitting attacks you want to block in PvE rarely hit more than once per second, and on top of that you stun break, get endurance and alacrity. Not everything has to give full invulnurability in its duration and in this case it wouldn’t even be fair if you consider two traitlines you have to take for signets to provide distortion to group.

(edited by Pregnantman.8259)

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

What are you even going on about? I proposed that only the last tick offered blur, which is only an evade by the way not full invulnerability, instead of the full duration. And a lot of attacks in PvE that you might use this well to block are unblockable anyway. Its overall a pretty useless well as it is right now

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Pregnantman.8259

Pregnantman.8259

I think you are generalizing too much. Almost all hard hitting attacks in fractal are blockable. And I was also addressing those that wanted well’s previous version. A lot of mechanics can be skipped with ‘only’ an evade from the shared distortion, do you really want it to be even more prevalent?

(edited by Pregnantman.8259)

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

No, I think you are being way too narrow minded in regards to this skill. First, all of 2 comments in this thread talked about getting the old version back, and they were both from the same person, so its not exactly a widespread request.

Second, there is more to PvE than fractals. Dungeons, open world, Living World, Raids. All of them feature unblockable attacks in places.

Well of Precognition QoL

in Mesmer

Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

I have started playing chrono recently but before that I played DH a lot, which is, or was, the party block class. So I can say that in PvE for attacks that can be blocked, this skill one of the best in game considering its cooldown, pulsing nature and versatility.

Not really. See, in PvE the issue is the opposite. Aegis doesn’t stack. Mobs attack very slowly. Those 3 pulses of Aegis are ~equivalent to just one single 3s lasting buff of Aegis. Will block one attack.

Also, consider something else: If the skill is that useful, how come it’s probably the least used ability chronomancers can put on their hotbar? Is everyone just too dense and no one but you has realized the potential of this skill yet? Not impossible ofc, but statistically that’s quite unlikely.

More significantly, even the theorycrafters don’t use the skill. For a few reasons, but in PvE a simple one is that the extra damage I can add to the party by using just about any other skill I have in effect avoids more attacks than WoP could even if it worked out perfectly. Shorter fights = less damage taken. This was a problem people had to understand in WoW, too, that often the solution to the raid wiping was not to bring more healers but less healers (and more DPS), ending it faster. Mesmer is a DPS-enhancing Buffer class in PvE, and if not playing to that strength, one might as well just replace the char with someone who is better overall.

That is ofc ignoring the first point, the skill is not suitable as a defensive tool to begin with.

And, as a bonus point: You say the skill is strong enough. Comparing other skills. That’s the wrong perspective IMO, as seriously, GW2 has way too weak skills which are way too spammable/stackable.

There’s just very little impact behind what we do. Old Facet of Nature was a balance problem, but a good one. The game needs skills this powerful and impactful. Things need to feel strong. However it should have been a lengthy CD, the culmination of all a Herald does for the party, once in a while they can go totally crazy and shoot boon duration through the roof. Likewise, why is Quickness a permanent buff now but only 50%? Why isn’t it a burst tool with 200%-300% speed, Time Warp in a crucial burn moment in a raid for maximum DPS, going entirely off the charts?

Yes, Guardian has plenty weak skills. I can sympathize. What I cannot do however is agree with using weak skills as a balance goal. It’s one type of balance, but GW2 clearly can’t live off of it, as the past 4,5 years have shown.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

(edited by Carighan.6758)