Guild Wars 2

Hey All,

So I’ve been kinda on again off again in learning this game. First month I was part of a pretty good team Tsunami and we did well. I played all types of Necro’s to learn about and create builds with. At all times Mesmers were always a pain, never having an easy fight with a good one, especially a Glass Cannon Mesmer (I could more often than not win attrition wars vrs non-bursty ones).

However now it seems Mesmers are even more powerfull than before and their illusions track and follow and respond better. Dodging a shatter seems even more difficult or a Besker that appears out of no where and does 3-5K damage (I’m playing in NA on a EU server so maybe some of the issue is delay).

So as a necro (condition one, since power ones with wells seem to be an easier match up do to being able to defeat the illusions/clones in fashionable time) what do I look for animation wise, tactics in general, how to dodge shatters (It seems now if I dodge they still keep following after a dodge and get me non-the less).

The glass cannon ones seem to do a ton of damage, and heal up quicker than I can deal out……

Also just in general what are mesmer weakness and things to look out for…..

dodge INTO the shatters, not away from.

use heavy reliable burst, AKA thieves. or heavy sustained conditions and high toughness. few mesmers have more than 1, if any condition removal (wvw)

nothing much lol if you know sup you can pretty much do 1vs2 unless they’re both xp and on stealth spamming thieves/other good mesmers.

wads.5730:

dodge INTO the shatters, not away from.

use heavy reliable burst, AKA thieves. or heavy sustained conditions and high toughness. few mesmers have more than 1, if any condition removal (wvw)

Ah into the shatter, I’ll try that.

Still I am heavy conditions with high toughness. And even when I avoid a burst or two, they still have the illusions out and I don’t have any burst to take them down in reasonable time. Eventually they just pill up and I end up dead when they still have half health (This is against glass cannon mesmers). I can beat all other classes reasonably well, with disappearing thiefs being harder, but still can win most of those engagments.

Last games in hot join I notice that it has become easy for a proper mesmer now, however there are some builds that I end up not having a single chance against. In particular the elementalist d/d build, together with earth armor is a real tough challenge and when he’s experienced with it I don’t have a chance. Maybe that’ll help, but I just don’t seem to be able to put them down in any way

The mesmer is a very reaction-based profession. Because of this, it is difficult to give you specific weaknesses. It really depends on what your build is and how you use it and what the opposing mesmer’s build is and how s/he reacts to you. The best thing you can do is create a mesmer character and familiarize yourself with the profession. Learn the skills, traits, and tactics and it will make it easier to counter them. My two level 80s are a necro and a mesmer. If you’re a good necro and you can figure out the mesmer profession, the fight should be pretty even.

when you dodge a shatter dodge forward into it, twice even. The pressure is always on mesmers since we’re always standing between life and death in a delicate balance. If you’re a necro that circly thing you have ( shows i never played necro) is what I dread the most cause too many dots kicks my kittenshnizzle.

TakeCare.3182:

The mesmer is a very reaction-based profession. Because of this, it is difficult to give you specific weaknesses. It really depends on what your build is and how you use it and what the opposing mesmer’s build is and how s/he reacts to you. The best thing you can do is create a mesmer character and familiarize yourself with the profession. Learn the skills, traits, and tactics and it will make it easier to counter them. My two level 80s are a necro and a mesmer. If you’re a good necro and you can figure out the mesmer profession, the fight should be pretty even.

So if you are a condition/toughness necro with marks and scepter, how would you beat a glass cannon shatter mesmer using blurred frenzy build??

I’m not sure if I believe what i’m reading right now. Necros are scratching their head about how to beat a Mesmer?

Necros are the most efficient and effective class against Mesmers.

But to stay on topic, there are some pretty good mesmer players out there. The only thing i can advise is playing as a mesmer and learn it’s mechanics. It’ll soon become a pattern of how they’re trying to attack you and when they are setting up for their burst

Don’t play spvp… But in wvwvw never went down against a necro… Never I have 8 character slots… All professions. I left my necro at lvl22 it was bugged and so unlike any necro in any game I ever played…

Incendom.6825:

Don’t play spvp… But in wvwvw never went down against a necro… Never I have 8 character slots… All professions. I left my necro at lvl22 it was bugged and so unlike any necro in any game I ever played…

interesting. Yeah i will say that Necro needs more attention

But I do know that in sPVP, the Necro is pretty good against mesmers.

But in w3, what professions has gotten the better of you?

only thing that kills me in wvw are:

1. zergs
2. instant down from stealth thieves
3. extreme condition builds on necros and other mesmers.

wads.5730:

only thing that kills me in wvw are:

1. zergs
2. instant down from stealth thieves
3. extreme condition builds on necros and other mesmers.

Yea i know stealth will be addressed (eventually…) but at the moment it’s not exactly “fun” trying to fight something you can’t see for the majority of the fight

When a mesmer raises their greatsword over their head a zerker is coming your way so dodge.

Blinds. Blocks, dodges, and more blinds.

Expansive.3716:

Incendom.6825:

Don’t play spvp… But in wvwvw never went down against a necro… Never I have 8 character slots… All professions. I left my necro at lvl22 it was bugged and so unlike any necro in any game I ever played…

interesting. Yeah i will say that Necro needs more attention

But I do know that in sPVP, the Necro is pretty good against mesmers.

But in w3, what professions has gotten the better of you?

recently it seems the general skills of small skirmishes has gone up quite a bit since guilds run together. On 1v1s thieves are always there so I built a tanky shatter …. Having trouble against mesmers who utilize decoy and stealth very well.. there is also a few good ele s/d builds… Suprisingly their play style is quite similar to the shatter cat movement guide vids…. I fought with 1 last night and we could never finish each other off… The fight reset 4 times…. We came back to the same place to fight again lol but got whipped by b bay server zerg….. Irony …I am in desolation … I run with fg

1. Dodge into shatters – Clones shatter once they enter range, trying dodging backwards and you’ll have to make multiple dodges. Setting up and executing a shatter is a resource intensive process. Afterwards the mesmer will have a lot of cooldowns.

2. Keep the pressure on at all times, especially AoE and conditions – A mesmer will typically try and hide behind the confusing array of clones until he has a shatter spike set up; the worst thing you can do is hang back at long range playing safe as this gives him breathing space to set up a shatter spike

3. Always have a stun breaker – Should be a no brainer, mesmers have a lot of dazes but they only have 1 immobilise of note. If you see that immobilise then a shatter spike is incoming; break it and get ready to jump the clones.

I play Necro and Mes the most.

A Necro should never beat a Mes 1 v 1 if a Mes dies he is bad. Nothing more to say then that.

However most mesmers are used to instantly killing people and dont know how to handle players that find them quickly.

Dont panic, let the clones do their damage save dodges for the shatters or perhaps zerker. Look for the real mes clones do not move backwards/sideways or dodge they stand in one spot or move towards you. Hit ctr+t when you find the real mes even 1 v 1 it helps pick up the mes faster and if a teamate shows up your work in finding the real mes and targeting them is huge. If the target goes away he just used a stealth like skill and you will need to refind him.

Even if you do everything right it comes down to the mes making mistakes thats the only way you will beat them.

Burst classes are much better for killing a mes quickly when you get good at spotting the mes. I hardly play thief but just destroy memsers because i play a mes I can spot the real one fast…

I think mesmers biggest weakness is the mesmer itself. We have sutch strong combo that 70% of al players fall for. This make alot of mesmers stay with that combo, never develop new styles to attack/defend and whey you suddenly face a good player he avoid your base attack, go for you and cause stress and misstakes.

Biggest favour we can do to ourself is to start mix and change our atacks. Regulary especialy vs good enemys try do unpredicted stuff, change the shatter order, jump somone bjt dont shatter, do bf, if he immune the bf, wait a few sec and then shatter etc. Open with daze, open with phantasm and 2 staff clones that just dmg and annoy him etc. Alot of effective ways to make a player who think he know what we will do unsure. What spec is thos mesmer? Why he. attacking me with clones etc etc.

Just my thoughts.

/Osicat

Perhaps that is why some mesmers think its a L2P issue and dont see how strong the class is. They are predictable and good players handle them.

Dont be predictable the class has a huge edge against the majority of classes and builds you will win.

Thanks for the info, some of it has helped me a little so far. That said, it seems like mesmers themselves are not in denial of the general consensus that the class has it real good/a little op.

Condition builds are definitely a problem for me, which is somewhat ironic as I also run a condition build (which, incidentally, seems to give me an advantage over most Mesmers I encounter).

While we actually do have a trait that is awesome at cleansing conditions (Shattered Conditions), it is rarely taken as it’s a GM trait in a generally out-of-the-way line. Most Mesmers can only cleanse conditions once or twice, so a constant application of damaging conditions can quickly overwhelm a Mesmer’s meager defenses.

AoEs are also effective against all Mesmers for obvious reasons. Every Mesmer build relies on Illusions in one way or another, the ability to wipe all of them at once can put a temporary dent in the Mesmer’s plans. They are also useful for Mesmers who really like their stealth. Having said that, most Mesmers can conjure a full set of Illusions very quickly, so unless you can keep those AoEs going a single wipe won’t hinder a Mesmer for long.

Expansive.3716:

Necros are the most efficient and effective class against Mesmers.

Maybe there are no good Necros that have ever faced Dragonbrand in wvw (It’s the only PVPing I do), but I’ve always considered Necros to be one of the easiest targets for me to beat ._.

Thieves have a chance to at least be annoying if they abuse culling and stealth, only because they don’t actually stay visible long enough for any of my attack animations to finish. If the first burst doesn’t kill me though I usually win (I have pretty good reaction time so the first burst very rarely does kill me)

D/D Elementalists kick my kitten in.

If it is a glass cannon mesmer, they rarely have any condition removal on their bar, so you are in a decent spot. If you can keep conditions on them and dodge their shatters (as everyone said, dodge towards the clones) and BF you can bring them down.

Also keep them at a distance if they are using a sword and staff combo, the staff doesn’t do much damage, plus it helps to see what their clones are doing. If they have a greatsword, stay closer (but not on them because of shatter) to reduce their auto attack damage, but be prepared to move back if they switch to a sword. Don’t stand still so they can’t get you with swords immobilize (if a sword clone gets on you keep it moving so they can’t swap, if the clone is moving the immobilize doesn’t usually work).

If they aren’t shattering but they are using power attacks they are most likely a phantasm spec. Destroy the phantasms then.

Also I am just saying this because it is standard advice but you need to know how to tell the difference between a clone and the real mesmer. Once you get this down killing mesmers gets a lot easier.

The mesmer’s weakness is his own strenght:
confusion stacking
(and zergs)

Since almost every player still buttonmashes his skillbar like crazy (especially thieves) confusion stacking is … the (obvious) “secret”. No matter what glass canon or even bunker you are facing: as a mesmer you can stack condition with scepter skills and shattering really fast. Many players won’t have more than 1 condition cleanser on their skillbar.

When times of attack pauses and ui realizations arrived confusion stack mesmer would get other problems.

EnRohbi.2187:

Expansive.3716:

Necros are the most efficient and effective class against Mesmers.

Maybe there are no good Necros that have ever faced Dragonbrand in wvw (It’s the only PVPing I do), but I’ve always considered Necros to be one of the easiest targets for me to beat ._.

That’s what I always thought as well, but then I tried sPVP and realised a well played necro is a massive pain in the kitten :P

Skill and trait wise, the largest hole any Mesmer faces is a complete and utter lack of Condition removal and “survival” buffs (protection, regen, swiftness, etc)

The mesmer class has a Mantra which can be used twice in rapid succession to remove up to 4 conditions, this skill is then on a 20 second recharge. Note 70-90% of mesmers NEVER carry a single Mantra skill.

The Mesmer has Arcane Theivery which can transfer up to 3 conditions while also stealing 3 boons from a single foe. this has a very limited range and a 36-45(?) second cool down if its been traited or not. again good for a quick bust or a small turn in the middle of a fight but not substantial.

The mesmer has a single trait in the Vit line which allows for condition removal on a heal (6 skill only) This means they have the ability to remove 1 condition and use up a heal at these intervals : 1 second x2 from the healing mantra (x3 if traited most are not) followed by a 20 second cd. one every 15 seconds with the Mirror skill (the one that reflects projectiles) or every 20 seconds with Ether Feast.

While the 3rd option seems wonderful note that no one wants to use a heal they dont need just to stop bleeding early in a fight and its not potent enough to remove a cluster of conditions later in a fight.

Other issues.

The class struggles without shatters or clones. A mesmer who cannot keep clones up will easily be destroyed.

Illusions, specificly Phantasms are now LoS and can be avoided with a dodge or blind or wall at the right moment.

Very few skills that apply boons. Mesmers typically will only recieve Regen in a smattering from a few traits, retaliation is also common but requires yet another trait, protection is now less common and short lived, might from shatters. these are the most likely boons and you will not often see any others on a mesmer.

Lack of sustained conditions. Honestly the only conditions you really need to worry or care about from a mesmer and its clones are Bleeding and Confusion, no other condition applied even by staff mesmers will last for more than 1, possibly 2, seconds.

Stagnated build pool: i hate to say it but after playing as a mesmer and watching other mesmers, just a quick glance at what they charge into battle with as their first weapon choice (staff, GS, Sword/pistol) Will give away exactly what they are about to do in about 95% of all cases as well as how they will choose to fight and what they will do if pressured and they begin to feel like they may lose.

Players: Maybe its just me but many mesmers find one weapon (applys mostly to WvW) they like (also mostly GS) and often forget they can weapon swap at all as they have grown so used to relying and using only a single weapon, forcing a close quaters battle is often the easiest way to befuddle and confuse a mesmer as much as they do you… we dont always know exactly where a teleport is about to take us and it can backfire very quickly (mostly thanks to the wonderful camera in closed area’s or rooms) on us.

While this may or may not be helpful it’s the honest answer outside of the typical “OMG LERN TEW PLAY” responses.

Mantra of Recovery is on a 10s CD, not 20s; and Mender’s Purity is triggered on channel as well.

We have a very powerful condition cleansing trait in Shattered Conditions, which removes one condition per Clone Shattered. Unfortunately no one ever takes it as it’s too high up the Inspiration line.

I disagree with the Mesmer lacking boons: the Staff is quite good at maintaining boons. I generally have lots of Might and permanent Fury and Vigour, and can get almost all boons on me on a frequent basis (including Aegis). The only boon we have trouble getting is Stability, as it is only on the weak Mantra of Concentration.

While it is true the Mesmer isn’t as good as inflicting conditions as other professions, it isn’t as bad as you think. Three Staff Clones and a Staff Mesmer with Illusionary Elasticity can easily maintain 10+ Bleeding and frequent Burning on the target, and we almost always have Confusion on demand (although it’s not always helpful).

Embolism.8106:

I disagree with the Mesmer lacking boons: the Staff is quite good at maintaining boons. I generally have lots of Might and permanent Fury and Vigour, and can get almost all boons on me on a frequent basis (including Aegis). The only boon we have trouble getting is Stability, as it is only on the weak Mantra of Concentration.

Perma vigor is easy for basically any Mesmer build (assuming at least 20 in Dueling for Deceptive Evasion). Thank Lyssa we at least have reliable access to that particular boon if no others.

Thanks to the recent change in Shattered Strength, I’m finally able to enjoy decent might stacks on full uptime while in combat.

Stacking boons with the staff moves too slowly for most encounters to have a noticable benefit (outside of Chaos Storm, if only it had a higher uptime). Whereas on bosses, if you can manage to keep your clones up and alive long enough to attack more than once, then well done on you sir.

(I personally dislike pve fighting with the staff equipped anyhow, but that’s just my prerogative. I’ll keep it to pvp.)

We are speaking of PvP here, not PvE.

Embolism.8106:

We are speaking of PvP here, not PvE.

Fair enough, we’ll chalk that one up to lack of sleep. Even then, I run staff as secondary pvp weapon slot for the aoe daze and the extra pseudo-breakstun. The small boons are a nice little added perk. Aside from the staff though, boon access is very limited.