Guild Wars 2

dont use defender and if i die only from another phantasm mesmer. shatter mesmer to weak. if i avoid first 2 shatter, oponent cant do something with me, avoid shater much more easy than phantasm. and all players have self combo style. so it autopilot to

theCOREYCOLAK.5698:

Gaidax.7835:

Defender could be good IF it did not take utility slot OR would not count against the 3 illusions limit.

It is problematic because you can’t have it and 2 phantasms together really, unless you totally want to ditch using leap, decoy or mirror blade.

I have no doubt that it can be powerful, but in my opinion it is not flexible enough.

Okay, if you’re not taking defender you’re going to die to a shatter mesmer… Enough said. And yes, I’m sorry, but phantasm mesmer is an autopilot. It’s easy to press a summon button, and then kite and spam invis. Shatter > Phantasm, when it comes to skill cap.

Phantasm does not die against Shatter EVER unless he fails… honestly… to what are you dying? To shatters? It takes as much as one Blurred Frenzy to totally negate it, even if you pull out a root and disable dodging into clones.

The best chance here is to stealth and pull out double shatter from melee range, but really any half decent Mesmer player who tried shatter builds himself will see that coming from a mile ahead.

The issue with Shatter vs Phantasm is indeed that Shatter is much more complicated to pull out properly AND that it’s sustain is crap too – it comes in with it’s big bursts, but as long as you avoid it at the right time, that’s all there is then and Mesmers have some awesome active defenses, especially Phantasm ones since you basically only need to defend. So what I am trying to say is that not only Shatter has to work hard, but Phantasm simply can concentrate on avoiding kitten and with Mesmer toolset and mechanics knowledge it is not hard at all.

Gaidax.7835:

Phantasm does not die against Shatter EVER unless he fails… honestly… to what are you dying? To shatters? It takes as much as one Blurred Frenzy to totally negate it, even if you pull out a root and disable dodging into clones.

The best chance here is to stealth and pull out double shatter from melee range, but really any half decent Mesmer player who tried shatter builds himself will see that coming from a mile ahead.

The issue with Shatter vs Phantasm is indeed that Shatter is much more complicated to pull out properly AND that it’s sustain is crap too – it comes in with it’s big bursts, but as long as you avoid it at the right time, that’s all there is then and Mesmers have some awesome active defenses, especially Phantasm ones since you basically only need to defend. So what I am trying to say is that not only Shatter has to work hard, but Phantasm simply can concentrate on avoiding kitten and with Mesmer toolset and mechanics knowledge it is not hard at all.

My grief with Phantasm is that it’s a selfish build. You offer nothing to the team, you’re a single targeted autopilot mesmer, and generally speaking, yes, I’m only dying to other shatter builds.

theCOREYCOLAK.5698:

Gaidax.7835:

Phantasm does not die against Shatter EVER unless he fails… honestly… to what are you dying? To shatters? It takes as much as one Blurred Frenzy to totally negate it, even if you pull out a root and disable dodging into clones.

The best chance here is to stealth and pull out double shatter from melee range, but really any half decent Mesmer player who tried shatter builds himself will see that coming from a mile ahead.

The issue with Shatter vs Phantasm is indeed that Shatter is much more complicated to pull out properly AND that it’s sustain is crap too – it comes in with it’s big bursts, but as long as you avoid it at the right time, that’s all there is then and Mesmers have some awesome active defenses, especially Phantasm ones since you basically only need to defend. So what I am trying to say is that not only Shatter has to work hard, but Phantasm simply can concentrate on avoiding kitten and with Mesmer toolset and mechanics knowledge it is not hard at all.

My grief with Phantasm is that it’s a selfish build. You offer nothing to the team, you’re a single targeted autopilot mesmer, and generally speaking, yes, I’m only dying to other shatter builds.

Actually, you’re completely wrong. There’s a very good reason that I prefer a phantasm build for pve. Phantasm builds go heavily into inspiration, which is our support trait line. Additionally, while phantasms are doing damage, you can worry about supporting your party.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Actually, you’re completely wrong. There’s a very good reason that I prefer a phantasm build for pve. Phantasm builds go heavily into inspiration, which is our support trait line. Additionally, while phantasms are doing damage, you can worry about supporting your party.

We’re not talking about PvE here. We’re talking about PvP.

theCOREYCOLAK.5698:

Gaidax.7835:

Phantasm does not die against Shatter EVER unless he fails… honestly… to what are you dying? To shatters? It takes as much as one Blurred Frenzy to totally negate it, even if you pull out a root and disable dodging into clones.

The best chance here is to stealth and pull out double shatter from melee range, but really any half decent Mesmer player who tried shatter builds himself will see that coming from a mile ahead.

The issue with Shatter vs Phantasm is indeed that Shatter is much more complicated to pull out properly AND that it’s sustain is crap too – it comes in with it’s big bursts, but as long as you avoid it at the right time, that’s all there is then and Mesmers have some awesome active defenses, especially Phantasm ones since you basically only need to defend. So what I am trying to say is that not only Shatter has to work hard, but Phantasm simply can concentrate on avoiding kitten and with Mesmer toolset and mechanics knowledge it is not hard at all.

My grief with Phantasm is that it’s a selfish build. You offer nothing to the team, you’re a single targeted autopilot mesmer, and generally speaking, yes, I’m only dying to other shatter builds.

I think you are getting a bit too much agitated with your Phantasm hate here.

Shatter build is used not because it provides some exceptional team support, but because Phantasm build is weak in the larger fights due to a simple reason that phantasms just don’t live enough and shatter has more burst which is more important in that setting.

Phantasm build provides just as much team support kittenter, it’s just that it’s damage becomes much less reliable as the amount of people involved increases. If we would live in a dream world and phantasms would take only 10% damage from AoE abilities like in that, other game, you would see swarms of Phantasm Mesmers excelling in any setting including team fights.

Gaidax.7835:

I think you are getting a bit too much agitated with your Phantasm hate here.

I’m not agitated at all, I commented on a post asking advice on how to beat a phantasm user in a 1v1 situation. I gave my reasoning, and steps behind my thought process when versing a phantasm user.

The reason phantasm users aren’t viable in group PvP situations is not because the phantasms die ridiculously fast, it’s the fact that Phantasm spec users offer next to no utility, little to no survivability (if you do slot trade off for more survivability, then you lose out on damage) and the overall play style of a phantasm spec is more situational, and conditional when compared to that of a shatter mesmer.

This has really gone off topic, OP asked for advice on how to kill a phantasm mesmer. He didn’t ask for an argument and justification for phantasm mesmers.

@Corey: You’re simply not correct. The single reason phantasm builds aren’t viable in group pvp is because the phantasms themselves are not viable in group pvp. That’s it. In other ways, phantasm builds can provide much more utility than shatter builds, primarily because you can devote your time to supporting rather than damaging.

*Taking a decent amount of healing power spreads powerful regen to your team from the phantasms.
*With the points in inspiration, you can choose for mantra heals to provide powerful aoe healing
*You also have the option of choosing focus as one of your offhands to provide projectile reflection and interrupt utility
*You can choose to bring group utilities such as null field, portal, phantasmal disenchanter, or phantasmal defender without significantly impacting your normal build
*You also have a much higher innate condition defense than a shatter Mesmer through the use of mender’s purity and the potential use of the heal mantra

The only reason phantasm mesmers are not viable is that the phantasms get killed. You are simply completely wrong in every other way.

Pyroatheist.9031:

You’re simply not correct. The single reason phantasm builds aren’t viable in group pvp is because the phantasms themselves are not viable in group pvp.

Case and point. I’m not going to bother arguing this any further when you yourself want to admit this. Shatter builds are not limited to 20/20/0/0/30. I myself, run reflection shatter in group play, with traited glamour fields and portals. Much more survivability, utility, and in combat mobility than a phantasm mesmer. Don’t assume that everyone the same cookie cutter shatter builds

And mantra heals… lol please, if I wanted to go group heals, I’d roll guardian for overpowered 2k dodge heals + AoE condi removal, boons, etc. (my roaming partner does this.) Why? Because it’s simply the optimal way to run it. Just because you CAN heal, doesn’t mean it’s the most optimal way to do it.

But by all means, keep playing autopilot phantasm builds if you really want.

theCOREYCOLAK.5698:

Much more survivability, utility, and in combat mobility than a phantasm mesmer. Don’t assume that everyone the same cookie cutter shatter builds

Take your own advice. Don’t assume everyone plays the same cookie cutter phantasm builds.

Gaiawolf.8261:

Take your own advice. Don’t assume everyone plays the same cookie cutter phantasm builds.

But you see, that’s my whole point. Any phantasm build is bad in group play.

Lets give them a chance to prove themselves, please post a phantasm build that will be more effective in group play than a shatter build.

Archituethis.8274:

Lets give them a chance to prove themselves, please post a phantasm build that will be more effective in group play than a shatter build.

Phantasm builds are not effective in group play because the phantasms themselves die. This is well known and established.

The issue is that this guy proceeds to then claim that in addition phantasm builds offer no utility and less survivability, and that’s where people are taking issue. In general, phantasm builds are more survivable and have more options utility purely because of the style of play.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Archituethis.8274:

Lets give them a chance to prove themselves, please post a phantasm build that will be more effective in group play than a shatter build.

Phantasm builds are not effective in group play because the phantasms themselves die. This is well known and established.

The issue is that this guy proceeds to then claim that in addition phantasm builds offer no utility and less survivability, and that’s where people are taking issue. In general, phantasm builds are more survivable and have more options utility purely because of the style of play.

Exactly. Claiming that phantasm builds have less utility and especially survivability is absolutely ridiculous – 25 in inspiration and Mender’s Purity are the core of the build and you can pick up Restorative Mantras right there too and abuse Mantra of Recovery with double condition removal and superior HPS and that is on top of the fact that Phantasm Mesmers don’t really NEED to engage in melee for optimal damage and have little trouble staying at range.

Claiming that this is less survivability than a suicidal shatter is outrageous. I mean as Phantasm, you can easily stand on a ledges at graveyard, mine, henge, pretty much all of the spirit watch, kyhlo or gate/temple and nuke the kitten out everything with GS and lose very little damage doing so, while being hard to reach, while shatter simply can’t.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Archituethis.8274:

Lets give them a chance to prove themselves, please post a phantasm build that will be more effective in group play than a shatter build.

Phantasm builds are not effective in group play because the phantasms themselves die. This is well known and established.

The issue is that this guy proceeds to then claim that in addition phantasm builds offer no utility and less survivability, and that’s where people are taking issue. In general, phantasm builds are more survivable and have more options utility purely because of the style of play.

Let me rephrase that “Less utility.”

u all speak now about many vs many, when op ask about 1v1. and in that moment no1 cant beat phantasm mesmer.
but couple (mb more) month ago, phantasm mesmer been overpowered in siege batlle. blind dont interupt summon, u can drop izerk on wall to kill treb or ac if u tagget it. phantasm fallow half of map. mb somewhen in future phantom back in large battle or be neerfed in 1v1, mb then shatter build be beter

and in group figh, no1 care life mesmer or not, liedown veil and timewarp u can die, its not like eles field or warrior/guard balst. so it doesnt matter witch build u use in group

drongas.4189:

u all speak now about many vs many, when op ask about 1v1. and in that moment no1 cant beat phantasm mesmer.
but couple (mb more) month ago, phantasm mesmer been overpowered in siege batlle. blind dont interupt summon, u can drop izerk on wall to kill treb or ac if u tagget it. phantasm fallow half of map. mb somewhen in future phantom back in large battle or be neerfed in 1v1, mb then shatter build be beter

and in group figh, no1 care life mesmer or not, liedown veil and timewarp u can die, its not like eles field or warrior/guard balst. so it doesnt matter witch build u use in group

Blind causes a phantasm summon to miss, unlike an interrupt the skill goes on full cool down and nothing is summoned. That’s why Torch shatters, and d/p thieves can bear phantasm mesmers.

yes and it work against newbie mesmer very well. but i know my enemy, its simple counter blind just dont summoning phantom in first second of batle. and when i blinded i just press autoatack 1 time, and it remove blind and when u miss without target

drongas.4189:

yes and it work against newbie mesmer very well. but i know my enemy, its simple counter blind just dont summoning phantom in first second of batle. and when i blinded i just press autoatack 1 time, and it remove blind and when u miss without target

It will only go away if you land a hit, or a summon. And even if it prevents someone from summoning a phantasm at the beginning of the fight, then a shatter will always win. For a phantasm mesmer to be successful against a shatter mesmer, you need to have that pressure from the get-go.

i guess u never get blind, if u blinded, enough just press #1 one time with sword without target, and it remove blind, u can try self if u dont trust me. and if i remember, when shatter mesmer use f1, clone do miss? or i wrong?

drongas.4189:

i guess u never get blind, if u blinded, enough just press #1 one time with sword without target, and it remove blind, u can try self if u dont trust me. and if i remember, when shatter mesmer use f1, clone do miss? or i wrong?

This is actually correct, I guess our little Phantasm basher was not aware of this fact

Blind will be removed by the next attack even if you just intentionally attack a thin air to begin with. You can do it without removing stealth either too.

I really don’t understand why on earth that dude thinks that blind is some sort of counter to Phantasm Mesmer, it’s a laughable waste of time really since you can instantly removed anytime by pressing 1.

I’m not even talking about the fact that by equipping torch you basically shoot yourself in a foot by giving up phantasm damage and cc options you could get from other offhands for a brief stealth that won’t change anything.

Back on topic about what beats one 1v1, the only class I’ve consistently lost to unless I got lucky is one of those glassy thieves. Granted I don’t know much about them but I find it hard to believe it’s a l2p issue (though it could be, but phantasm mesmer isn’t exactly requiring of much skill) when I’m dead in a few seconds, after burning through all my active defense.

As soon as you try and gain distance with blink they are up your kitten hole again lol, and I’m always dead after I only get 1 phantasm out.

Anyways this is coming from an spvp PoV, maybe they aren’t such a challenge in WvW? If I see them coming I stand a chance, but if they sneak up on me or catch me with CDs up it’s an auto lose, being the glassy kitten I am in berserkers.

Madisonlee.9641:

Back on topic about what beats one 1v1, the only class I’ve consistently lost to unless I got lucky is one of those glassy thieves. Granted I don’t know much about them but I find it hard to believe it’s a l2p issue (though it could be, but phantasm mesmer isn’t exactly requiring of much skill) when I’m dead in a few seconds, after burning through all my active defense.

As soon as you try and gain distance with blink they are up your kitten hole again lol, and I’m always dead after I only get 1 phantasm out.

Anyways this is coming from an spvp PoV, maybe they aren’t such a challenge in WvW? If I see them coming I stand a chance, but if they sneak up on me or catch me with CDs up it’s an auto lose, being the glassy kitten I am in berserkers.

This is actually somewhat of a learn to play issue. I recommend you play a thief to learn how their attacks flow and how they work. Once you understand them, you be able to understand the counter play for them.

Gaidax.7835:

drongas.4189:

i guess u never get blind, if u blinded, enough just press #1 one time with sword without target, and it remove blind, u can try self if u dont trust me. and if i remember, when shatter mesmer use f1, clone do miss? or i wrong?

This is actually correct, I guess our little Phantasm basher was not aware of this fact

Blind will be removed by the next attack even if you just intentionally attack a thin air to begin with. You can do it without removing stealth either too.

I really don’t understand why on earth that dude thinks that blind is some sort of counter to Phantasm Mesmer, it’s a laughable waste of time really since you can instantly removed anytime by pressing 1.

I’m not even talking about the fact that by equipping torch you basically shoot yourself in a foot by giving up phantasm damage and cc options you could get from other offhands for a brief stealth that won’t change anything.

None the less, my initial response still stands. If they have to cancel the channel on you, while you break target and go into stealth to avoid using a cooldown then by all means it’s not a wasted utility. It adds pressure increased pressure. Yes I was unaware of the fact that blind was removable by just hitting 1, however, you would have to have pretty fast reflexes to cancel this mid 1 1/4 second cast time. I bash phantasm mesmers simply because it’s a selfish 1v1 build. You guys can deny it as much as you want, by Phantasm Mesmer spec offers a low skill-cap, high return on rewards when it comes to 1v1’s. This is pretty much a “Build Wars” issue. Where in most cases when someone with the higher skill level should’ve won, they’re losing to an autopilot build with next to no risks.

If you still truly believe that phantasm mesmers don’t lose to anything, and that blind does nothing, feel free to message me in game so that I can show you in a free sPvP room

theCOREYCOLAK.5698:

Gaidax.7835:

drongas.4189:

i guess u never get blind, if u blinded, enough just press #1 one time with sword without target, and it remove blind, u can try self if u dont trust me. and if i remember, when shatter mesmer use f1, clone do miss? or i wrong?

This is actually correct, I guess our little Phantasm basher was not aware of this fact

Blind will be removed by the next attack even if you just intentionally attack a thin air to begin with. You can do it without removing stealth either too.

I really don’t understand why on earth that dude thinks that blind is some sort of counter to Phantasm Mesmer, it’s a laughable waste of time really since you can instantly removed anytime by pressing 1.

I’m not even talking about the fact that by equipping torch you basically shoot yourself in a foot by giving up phantasm damage and cc options you could get from other offhands for a brief stealth that won’t change anything.

None the less, my initial response still stands. If they have to cancel the channel on you, while you break target and go into stealth to avoid using a cooldown then by all means it’s not a wasted utility. It adds pressure increased pressure. Yes I was unaware of the fact that blind was removable by just hitting 1, however, you would have to have pretty fast reflexes to cancel this mid 1 1/4 second cast time. I bash phantasm mesmers simply because it’s a selfish 1v1 build. You guys can deny it as much as you want, by Phantasm Mesmer spec offers a low skill-cap, high return on rewards when it comes to 1v1’s. This is pretty much a “Build Wars” issue. Where in most cases when someone with the higher skill level should’ve won, they’re losing to an autopilot build with next to no risks.

If you still truly believe that phantasm mesmers don’t lose to anything, and that blind does nothing, feel free to message me in game so that I can show you in a free sPvP room

By all means, I’ll gladly rip you apart with a phantasm build.

Other than that, like all mesmer builds, the phantasm build has a very high skill cap. Unlike most mesmer builds, it has a very low skill floor, along with a high base reward rate in 1v1 fights.

Mesmer seems OP to me as long Sword#3 has the immobilize/dodge bug and this makes it strong with a shatter build more then anything else.
Nothing can counter this pressure ATM every 10sec, maybe full spec in heal/toughness/condition damage can hold against it.

This brings me to warriors…
A Warrior can counter immobilize on command with short CD
and that makes it interesting against a Sword Mesmer I think.
And on top of that I have seen some warrior bursting all illusions and the mesmer down
before something could happen.

Pyroatheist.9031:

the phantasm build has a very high skill cap

lol. I look forward to you “ripping me apart”. “Very high skill cap” ahahah oh my. Sorry. But popping an iDefender, couple iDuelists and then not dying is NOT very hard at all

then if u kill phantom mesmer easy. it because they dont have skill. right? then skilled mesmer beat your kitten easy. simple

Silver.9084:

I’ve been 1v1ing phantasm mesmers and finding it really hard to beat them outside a point, like in an open field 1v1.

What beats phantasm mesmer? And how?

The best thing I’ve found is actually a shatter confusion build, with using some stealth attacks and a clone factory. If you stealth and dodge (making a clone), the enemy phantasms don’t know which to attack, and if you stack up confusion, the phantasm mesmer has to choose to either take the hit to summon another, or wait until it goes way, during which you can attack. But they are tough! Sword/touch+sword/pistol dps mesmers do pretty well too!

So how did that Pyro and Corey fight go?

Kazhiel.8194:

So how did that Pyro and Corey fight go?

Has not occurred yet.

What beats Phantasm Mes?

-AoE
-Abilites that block summons (block, dodge, aegis, invuln)

Phantasm Spec Mesmers are not really some mystical level of OP. I certainly never have any particularly unusual amount of trouble with them.
Perma stealth thieves are much more challenging IMO…

Brew Pinch.5731:

What beats Phantasm Mes?

-AoE
-Abilites that block summons (block, dodge, aegis, invuln)

Phantasm Spec Mesmers are not really some mystical level of OP. I certainly never have any particularly unusual amount of trouble with them.
Perma stealth thieves are much more challenging IMO…

Block, dodge, and aegis all fail to block phantasm summons.

I dont know what counters them. Most mesmers will probably tell you that you must learn to play and that mesmers are designed to be DUELERS (that means, designed to destroy everyone in duels, yeah). I dont know, maybe a zerker thief if the mesmer is a glass canon build, but the problem is, most of them are not anymore. Honestly, when I see a mesmer is going 1v1 with me, I just run away. Call me a coward or whatever you want but I conluced that to be the most sensible choice.

PS. I also run away from thieves in WvW. Other than that, anything is a fair game.

I dont care for illusions as long I can dodge attacks of Phantasm and shattering …
If I can hold the mesmer at mid/long range and put conditions on him it should work.

Btw. block, dodge, aegis, … all works fine as damage absorb.

What he meant is that they do not block phantasm summoning.

theCOREYCOLAK.5698:

Pyroatheist.9031:

the phantasm build has a very high skill cap

lol. I look forward to you “ripping me apart”. “Very high skill cap” ahahah oh my. Sorry. But popping an iDefender, couple iDuelists and then not dying is NOT very hard at all

Ahh… I think I see where you are coming from now. Hate to break it to you, but that’s the floor for phant mesmers (which I agree is enough against most average players), but nowhere near the cap. No wonder you think phantasm builds are inferior at higher skill levels. If that’s your understanding of the skill cap for phant builds, you’re barely getting off the ground with understanding the finer details.

The cap is more about reading your opponent’s build, tracking their CDs, and anticipating actions to avoid blinds and bursts; much more than shatter builds anyway. You seem to understand the burst mechanics of shatters fairly well, but unlike burst builds, the finer points of phantasm mesmers is much more about managing skill resources on both sides over inconsistent periods of time than mobility/utility for survival and then popping skill rotations for big bursts. That’s why it’s a high cap, but extremely devastating when done right.

A skilled player of any class will rip apart your simple skill popping phantasm mesmer, but once you break down their counters and elevate to a higher level of play, the phantasms simply become too much to handle, even for an equally skilled player. That’s the point some phantasm build experts are trying to bring home to you.

Awe.1096:

I dont know what counters them. Most mesmers will probably tell you that you must learn to play and that mesmers are designed to be DUELERS (that means, designed to destroy everyone in duels, yeah). I dont know, maybe a zerker thief if the mesmer is a glass canon build, but the problem is, most of them are not anymore. Honestly, when I see a mesmer is going 1v1 with me, I just run away. Call me a coward or whatever you want but I conluced that to be the most sensible choice.

PS. I also run away from thieves in WvW. Other than that, anything is a fair game.

Coming from someone who started this game as a Mesmer and now changing over to a thief, I can tell you, once you understand how most Mesmers play in WvW, they are fairly predictable. Typically, I try to stick in close using my D/P build and dagger storm. I’ve found that by using this weapon set combined with the blind spam, they aren’t too much of a problem. Of course, this all changes if the Mesmer is skilled but generally speaking, I find them easy to counter on my Thief. On my Ele, well I just get destroyed.

Kazhiel.8194:

So how did that Pyro and Corey fight go?

I’ll be on tomorrow night.

theCOREYCOLAK.5698:

Pyroatheist.9031:

the phantasm build has a very high skill cap

lol. I look forward to you “ripping me apart”. “Very high skill cap” ahahah oh my. Sorry. But popping an iDefender, couple iDuelists and then not dying is NOT very hard at all

I don’t use iDuelist or iDefender in PvP. I only really use Defender in PvE and the last time I did it was versus Canach so I could beat him without touching any traps (Retaliation and I didn’t want to touch a wrong trap due to my red-green color blindness).

I never run Duelist. Why? Because I have no use for the pistol in PvP. I understand that in PvP a Phantasm Mesmer relies on pumping out Phantasms. Offhand Sword gives me that short Phantasm to get pumped out that can be killed.

I have no problem with Duelist in a Phantasm build, it’s just not for me (until I get my Quip, then I’ll see what I can do). You shouldn’t expect every Phantasm Mesmer to run the same cookie cutter build when every Shatter Mesmer doesn’t run the same cookie cutter build.

Additionally, you talk about Blind as if it’s something you can throw out every 3 seconds. I hope you realize that Sta kitten in addition to -conditionDuration both shut down Blind. Unless you have really high twitch reaction and are able to blink-blind someone right before their cast finishes, you should expect it to succeed. You also talk about your blind to force them to use a utility, but you’re blinking to blind which leaves you open.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Block, dodge, and aegis all fail to block phantasm summons.

Really? It can be hard to tell in the heat of PvP battle but I’m 100% sure mobs in PvE block summons at least with dodge, surely it’s the same for players…

Brew Pinch.5731:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Block, dodge, and aegis all fail to block phantasm summons.

Really? It can be hard to tell in the heat of PvP battle but I’m 100% sure mobs in PvE block summons at least with dodge, surely it’s the same for players…

Some mobs will use a skill that ‘evades’. Mobs do not dodge, and if they did, it wouldn’t block the summon.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Brew Pinch.5731:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Block, dodge, and aegis all fail to block phantasm summons.

Really? It can be hard to tell in the heat of PvP battle but I’m 100% sure mobs in PvE block summons at least with dodge, surely it’s the same for players…

Some mobs will use a skill that ‘evades’. Mobs do not dodge, and if they did, it wouldn’t block the summon.

i dont think his summon was blocked at all. The phantasm just died too fast. probably

It’s been quite interesting to read and from such experienced discussion however it has strayed off from original topic. It’s also bit sad to see this discussion move to an I-kill-you-so-my-point-is-proven. Everyone has their own playstyle, and just like other builds in other classes some builds will show an advantage more than other in certain situations.

Case in point: Phantasm mesmers are very strong 1v1 but not every battle is a 1v1 unless you look for duels only. I believe they get weaker as more players join the fray while shatter mesmers do pretty nice aoe.

It would be nice to see more constructive posts on the weaknesses of phantasm build, as asked by the OP. From what I’ve learned so far, constant pressure is key otherwise. Easiest with 2v1. Would lots of CC or conditions be good? I’m wondering about those cc bunker guardians or necro/engi respectively.

ATourist.8359:

It’s been quite interesting to read and from such experienced discussion however it has strayed off from original topic. It’s also bit sad to see this discussion move to an I-kill-you-so-my-point-is-proven. Everyone has their own playstyle, and just like other builds in other classes some builds will show an advantage more than other in certain situations.

Case in point: Phantasm mesmers are very strong 1v1 but not every battle is a 1v1 unless you look for duels only. I believe they get weaker as more players join the fray while shatter mesmers do pretty nice aoe.

It would be nice to see more constructive posts on the weaknesses of phantasm build, as asked by the OP. From what I’ve learned so far, constant pressure is key otherwise. Easiest with 2v1. Would lots of CC or conditions be good? I’m wondering about those cc bunker guardians or necro/engi respectively.

direct dmg>condition dmg in this game imo. conditions on phantasm mesmer not so big problem (if it not poison on 30 sec, because phanmesmer have perma regen, with 250 healing from trait, nice boost) sometimes engi with elite skill have nice condition burst. but if u avoid it, u probably win easy. and against 1 vs 2 if u vs guard bunker and necro. u win 90% for sure. ofc if ur ALL wep and utility skil are on cd. u die

Awe.1096:

Most mesmers will probably tell you that you must learn to play and that mesmers are designed to be DUELERS (that means, designed to destroy everyone in duels, yeah).

This is mostly how it works, yes.
The Phantasm-spec is the Mesmer-version of the Thief super-gank spec, albeit with a bit more wind-up but more staying power. It excels in taking someone down 1v1, especially if they cannot viably AE with their default attacks (i.e.: they don’t cleave).

It falters as soon as it’s a 2v2 or bigger because the Phantasm-Mesmer never rises in power beyond her 1v1 potential. She still excels at engaging a single of the targets, only the tactical value of that just plummeted.

Also, gank thieves take down Phantasm Mesmers rather well because they end the fight before the Mesmer can play her cards.

So what happens if I activate mimic when people spawn their phantasms?

nothing, they summon phantasm