Guild Wars 2

im leveling up a mesmer and i ll do basically fractals and dungeons, first 1 want to know are mesmer good in pve? and what build is the best one for my purpose?

Im sorry, I posted my answer in a PM to somone om my phone. No idea who it ended up in your thread. Serius bugg lol. Sorry.

/Osicat

Ok I feel obligated to answer your post now that I somehow ended up post a message in it

For Pve fractals a common DPS spec is wery effective. 20-20-0-0-30 with a GS / sword+focus, feedback, nullfield, timewarp is a good build. The daze shatter + feedback giev the team a superb burst of dmg aswell.

/Osicat

shameless.4728:

im leveling up a mesmer and i ll do basically fractals and dungeons, first 1 want to know are mesmer good in pve? and what build is the best one for my purpose?

DPS-wise, mesmers are a bit meh, they’re taken in dungeons more for their utility than their damage (if you have an ele in the team, you’ll do better DPS with their conjured weapon than your own, but lightning hammer is pretty much the top DPS in the game so it’s unsurprising).

Personally, I run 10/30/0/30/0, III in domination, II, IV, IX in dueling, II, VIII, IX in inspiration. To maximise damage I run sword/sword and sword/pistol, swapping the pistol out for focus if I need the utility (which is often) though I haven’t actually run any numbers so it might actually be better to swap off-hand sword instead if it does less damage than pistol. The biggest thing mesmers are taken for is reflects, and sticking 20 points in inspiration gives you the potential to provide ten seconds of reflect uptime with your phantasmal warden and temporal curtain and then you still have feedback as well.

Dungeon strategy involves dodging lethal attacks or using blurred frenzy to make yourself temporarily invulnerable, cast your two phantasms ASAP and swap as much as possible between your sword/X and sword/Y so you can immediately cast phantasms again when they come off cooldown.

i was thinking about getting a zerk gear and this traits: 10 in Domination. III. – Super Illusion damage.
30 in Dueling. II, IV, X or IX. – Sword cooldown, clone on dodge, Phantasms have fury. If you don’t want clone on dodge, you can take the Pistol cooldown.
30 in Inspiration. II, VIII, IX. – Glamour skills recharge faster and last longer, Focus skills recharge faster and reflect.
what do you think?

I’d go for the pistol cooldown. Traited, it will always interact with combo fields, has longer range (this works nice in uncategorised fractal where you set up three duelists against the champion ettin and since they camp range they basically never die) and a faster cooldown which is always nice to have. I’ve never really found a situation I’d find deceptive evasion useful plus it means you give up one of your dueling traits which means a longer cooldown on off-hand sword skills and blurred frenzy (which is amazing to use while a boss uses a big attack so you don’t even have to roll but can still do damage), no fury on phantasms or longer pistol cooldowns.

Berserker gear is good too, you should always be actively defending through evades and invulnerabilities, not trying to tank hits (though mesmers have a lot of HP which means they can take quite a bit even if running full glass).

Do not stay at range with greatsword, ever.

I often find myself playing the role of the tank in dungeons, front-lining in Knight’s equipment (with Valk or Berserker trinkets). It’s nice to be that someone who stays up to revive all of the facerolling ‘berserkers’ and ‘rampagers’ that are common in PUGs, at least.

…Anyway, it’s not even because mesmer is particularly good at it (every profession has a way to ‘tank’ and they’re all supposed to do their part of it in this game), it’s because noone else wants to. Big numbers, whee!

At range as in far from your target.

So, yes, always stay “at range”. If you actually want to be doing any damage.

So you’re saying it’s a good idea to use a weapon with poor DPS, and four useless abilities + good phantasm. You’re saying it’s a good idea to not use the off-hand sword phantasm which is quite possibly our best phantasm and to camp out at range rather than receiving boons from the party

Don’t ever use greatsword in a dungeon unless it’s completely necessary, which is barely ever.

I often find myself playing the role of the tank in dungeons, front-lining in Knight’s equipment (with Valk or Berserker trinkets). It’s nice to be that someone who stays up to revive all of the facerolling ‘berserkers’ and ‘rampagers’ that are common in PUGs, at least.

There is no way to reliably tank in this game.

And those berserker players wouldn’t be down if you were using full berserker to help kill the boss quicker.

colesy.8490:

Don’t ever use greatsword in a dungeon unless it’s completely necessary, which is barely ever.

Disagreed here. You make a good point about being out of melee range but it stops there. You can use GS to great effect in dungeons and it’s the best way I’ve personally found for a mesmer to stack the most amount of might to share with the party (see paladin 2.0 in my sig). You have to be careful with #5, as you don’t want to incite party rage but if you’re skilled with that, it’s a great weapon to bring.

Granted that is just one build, and I understand what you’re saying and the point you’re trying to make, but be careful in making such broad, sweeping statements. There are more reasons in which GS can be viable in the average dungeon run, not to mention specific dungeon paths where the nuking AoE laser can be really effective.

You can use GS to great effect in dungeons

Like what.

it’s the best way I’ve personally found for a mesmer to stack the most amount of might

Or… your group can stack might and then you pop signet of inspiration.

You have to be careful with #5, as you don’t want to incite party rage

You be careful with it by not using it, and not using greatsword.

Granted that is just one build, and I understand what you’re saying and the point you’re trying to make, but be careful in making such broad, sweeping statements.

Melee brings more DPS, and better phantasms, so I think my statement is perfectly fine.

There are more reasons in which GS can be viable in the average dungeon run,

Yes, it’s viable. Staff is viable, torch is viable, scepter is viable. But they’re all bad. Greatsword is lucky because it comes with a strong phantasm, but staff and torch don’t even have that, it’s just that everything in the game is easy, and so everything is viable. The thing is, viable =/= good.

specific dungeon paths where the nuking AoE laser can be really effective.

Like what? I’ll offer you examples where I’d range:

1. First jade maw tentacle groups always go for, you always hit it from that high point.
2. Melandru boss in Arah because of the bad ground which makes melee the wrong thing to do.
3. High level fractal Grawl shaman because otherwise you’re dodging one-shots too much which makes melee a waste of time.

…I can’t think of any others, though there’s probably a couple more. Note how in two examples it’s due to anti-melee mechanics, and in the maw tentacle example, it’s just that skipping the annoying mobs by jumping to the other side of the boss fight area is just easier and more efficient.

I wish more mesmers would understand how good off-hand sword is and that they shouldn’t automatically use sword/focus in their second weapon set “just because”, they should actually think where the focus would actually be useful.

colesy.8490:

There is no way to reliably tank in this game. And those berserker players wouldn’t be down if you were using full berserker to help kill the boss quicker.

You are hilarious and/or delusional.
And I wasn’t even talking about boss fights.
And CoF Path 1 doesn’t count.

@colesy -

• You listed many scenarios where GS is good to take. Hardly classified as “barely ever” to take.
• Regarding others stacking might, some people don’t have the luxury of hand picking their party.
• Melee/DPS … I think you know by now bringing a mesmer is not all about DPS, it’s the utility. DPS is a by-product.
• Sorry, I disagree, but saying some weapons are “viable” doesn’t mean they’re bad – at least not to me. “Viable” in this case is more than effective.
• All mesmers should have multiple weapons/sets at their disposal to cater to any encounter. I’ll drop my GS in a heartbeat if pistol is more fit for a fight.

I’m just concerned you’ve giving the impression to other mesmers who may be looking for guidance that GS is terrible for dungeons and that’s absolutely false.

well then im going to get a gs and sword+sword+focus so i can set sword/sword or sword/focus and this traits http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8dlwzCrXVTqGaNJyJFM3yhqA2RShqlalUgbXIA are better than mine?

You are hilarious and/or delusional.
And I wasn’t even talking about boss fights.
And CoF Path 1 doesn’t count.

Fine, with trash mobs if you were using full berserker you would be killing mobs quicker so the berserker players wouldn’t be dropping.

The whole “kill or be killed” principle doesn’t just apply to CoF p1 either, watch one of obal’s Fractal 48 rampaging ice elemental kills where they burst it in one superheating and then four of them in the party drop from taking agony, and to be honest I think that’s just from missing a dodge, agony at 48 will eat you alive no matter how defensive your gear is since it takes out percentages of your life total, not set numbers of HP which means the player with less HP will actually have an easier time recovering HP since their heals are more potent.

Regarding tanking, in this game it’s pretty much RNG so like I said it’s practically impossible.

•You listed many scenarios where GS is good to take. Hardly classified as “barely ever” to take.

On the other hand, you don’t take it in:

1. Slave Driver
2. Effigy
3. Subject Alpha (all paths, all fights)
4. Balthazar boss (Arah)
5. Giganticus Lupicus
6. Captain Ashym (lower levels)
7. Entire uncategorised fractal
8. Final Arah p2 boss
9. Alphard
10. First boss in hotw p1
11. Mossman
12. Bloomhunger

Too lazy to think of more.

•Regarding others stacking might, some people don’t have the luxury of hand picking their party.

Engis and eles can stack might, guards can maintain I think 3-4 stacks in a fight for the party, warriors can stack might + banners, thieves have blast finishers though I’m not sure if they have their own fire field, not sure about other classes. You’ll surely have at least one player who can stack some.

•Melee/DPS … I think you know by now bringing a mesmer is not all about DPS, it’s the utility. DPS is a by-product.

So now rather than choosing to learn, and grow as a player you’re using “utility” as an excuse. You can provide utility and still maximise your weapon DPS. Besides, the “utility” quite often involves using temporal curtain to push mobs to a wall, so what then, will your utility be your excuse for camping greatsword at 900 range when the fight begins? Or you could go full melee, which is perfectly safe.

•Sorry, I disagree, but saying some weapons are “viable” doesn’t mean they’re bad – at least not to me. “Viable” in this case is more than effective.

Yes, well it doesn’t matter what you think here because you’re wrong. Viable does not equal bad, what I’m saying is that there are bad weapons in this game which are still viable in dungeons because they still work. It’s not like it’s impossible to do all of Arah with staff/scepter+torch, it would just be excruciatingly long and boring unless your group carries you all the way through.

•All mesmers should have multiple weapons/sets at their disposal to cater to any encounter. I’ll drop my GS in a heartbeat if pistol is more fit for a fight

Mesmers should carry two swords (if you want to use OH sword, on your second weapon set just stick the second one in the off-hand slot and you’ll still be able to use both swords when you swap), a focus, a pistol and a greatsword for those fringe circumstances that it’s needed. That’s all I’ve taken with me (though in my case I have five swords, two pistols, two greatswords and one focus) and it’s enough for every piece of content in the game, at maximum efficiency too.

I’m just concerned you’ve giving the impression to other mesmers who may be looking for guidance that GS is terrible for dungeons and that’s absolutely false.

Now you get it. GS is terrible in dungeons and is just a crutch bad players want to use when they can’t be bothered to learn how to dodge. Watching your Paladin 2.0 video, in the Cliffside Fractal part, you would use greatsword at like 300 range, which meant the DPS was pitiful, and when using your sword you wouldn’t even engage the boss except for frenzy when he has pretty clear tells that you can invuln/evade. Also, you didn’t have feedback slotted on the first fight which can reflect about 40k worth of damage, and iWarden doesn’t move while the boss does so you should have used iSwordsman to increase your DPS since it hits hard and more frequently, plus you can block an attack.

You see, I’d rather not see the mesmer playerbase be like the ranger playerbase where you have a useful class that’s tainted by people using weak weapons (the notorious longbow/bear ranger, and in this case the greatsword mesmer) because they’re too lazy to learn to play better.

why don’t you guys help me instead of argue?

Scroll up to my first post in the thread.

i still think the best dungeon/fractal build for mesmer is this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8dlwzipHQzqGa9IxZGMf5oZgdvXSBu5NA

GS is good for lot of reason…its not your main weapon, but its a weapon you want to have.

Mostly because mades up for your lacking in trash mob fights, with Cripple, aoe damage and quick illusion spam.

Fractals:
This build has permareflect in many situations….and reflect in fotm is the most useful thing you could ask.

The CC is also really good.

And being able to spam illusions is really good.
EX lava shaman

You can keep 3 illusions alive during main phase….to provide more targets for agony shot.
When he get shield up shatter F4 summon iZerker, switch to sword/focus and do the rest…..when shield is destroyed you still have your feedback ready and plenty of tricks on short CD.

Dungeon:
In some you may want to change GS with a pistol
But in most situation you will have long iwardenS uptime

P.S. i play ONLY dungeon and Fractals and really lot of them

P.p.S. sword OH is not as good as pistol/focus because iswordman dies really easy and stacks less bleeding
Also the parrying is the most useless PVE skill in the game since won t block most Attacks EXPECIALLY if agony is involved

@colesy:
I wouldn’t use greatsword to begin with tbh.

But maybe i’m biased – i hate it with passion.

Manly because GS = iZerker then 20 sec on nothing… the skillset looks very lackuster to me.
MH Sword chain > 3rd skill (both for dmg and boon stripping)
IntoTheVoid > 5th skill
2nd skill is passable but the recent changes to bounces logic made it a bit wonky
1st skill is plain bad.

Overall i never use it. 1st cause Sword + offhand of choice blows up all the other options in every terms imo (dmg and can pack utility with focus), 2nd i prefer staff.

The only scenario where i’d use GS is taking away some small trash mobs. Istant aoe ranged it’s good for it. But again – iZerk then sit on those other 4 useless skills.

Even if i know it’s personal preference in the GS vs Staff endless debate.
Surely chaos armor recent change made Staff a bit less desiderable, cause you’d use it for defence weapon set.

All in all: Sword + x / Sword + y will be probably my choice.

@colesy – first, good point on feedback – I’m personally still learning all the fractals so that was helpful.

Utility isn’t the “excuse”, it’s the norm for a mesmer and doesn’t mean you use it as a crutch, it means you’re playing smartly. I was in melee in the video as I should have been because of the point you made about receiving boons from others in the party (which I’m often irked about w/longbow rangers) AND I have a might stacking build which requires me to be in melee range w/GS to get the mirror blade bounce. Again, I can’t control my party make-up most of the time so boon stacking/sharing builds are a great way to balance out a party.

So shameless – the debate was an attempt to show you that using GS can be useful and I’m glad to hear you picked one up. Obviously colesy and I disagree on some things but I hope the information helped in some way. Use GS as needed based on the content you’ll be facing and you’ll do fine. The biggest thing to remember, if you take anything away from this thread, is try to balance staying in melee range with maximizing your DPS due to the many reasons stated and above all, have fun.

i ve now the zerk gear and a gs, i ll get the two sword and a focus asap i can but im still confused about the traits u posted two different :\ i dont know what to pick

shameless.4728:

i ve now the zerk gear and a gs, i ll get the two sword and a focus asap i can but im still confused about the traits u posted two different :\ i dont know what to pick

The builds discussed in this thread appear more phantasm based. If you want to go GS-Sw/F, I would do something like this (trait-wise):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8dlwzCrXVTqGa9IxpHMf5NnkCVn6SKwNvB
An alternative:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8dlwzCrXVTqGaNJxZGMf5oZgdvTqgqLVA3A

If you want to run more of a support role, check out the paladin builds in my signature or the other various support builds listed in this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/SUPPORT-Mesmer-Spotlight/first#post1481629

If you want to drop the GS as a main weapon (using it only as needed), the traits colesy suggested provide a good way to change on the fly depending on what you’re facing. I personally don’t recommend using the same weapon on the MH though as I don’t like waiting for the sword CD’s when swapping. I have run sc/p – sw/f in the past and it’s not too bad, but scepter is definitely not ideal. The problem is we don’t have an additional power weapon to choose from when going with 2 weapons per set.

GS is definitely the way to go imo. Staff and Scepter are simply too pvp oriented. After that your options pretty much are limited to Sword/Focus unless you’re going for a very specific use case. Pistol is probably the next best choice if you take Sharper Images and Glamour util. Glamour is a best support utility type so it makes sense to dump 30 in inspiration. Then 20 in Chaos for trait your GS. After that 20 points in Dueling makes the most sense. The Illusions tree for a Phantasm build is nearly a waste of points. The Chaos tree is mainly geared towards survival and interrupts.

I see shatter builds being suggested. Shattering in PVE never made much sense to me. Shatter is very “front loaded” damage and requires more micro managing than phantasm builds. Phantasms are “fire and forget” which allows you more time to focus on the fight.

Bunch of posts incoming.

@Lord Byron

GS is good for lot of reason…its not your main weapon, but its a weapon you want to have.

Reasons like what? It makes bads look good because they’re hitting the enemy and most people won’t pick up on the fact that it’s a weak weapon?

Mostly because mades up for your lacking in trash mob fights, with Cripple, aoe damage and quick illusion spam.

Mesmers will always be lacking in trash fights, and cripple does absolutely nothing to stationary mobs. You’re better off using sword/focus as the phantasmal warden cleaves for five seconds, reflects projectiles, and since you’re using a sword, the sword itself cleaves too, greatsword doesn’t.

In some you may want to change GS with a pistol

No, in almost all cases you will be better off with pistol. It’s why 10/30/0/30/0 is better than 20/20/0/30/0 because it allows you to trait both your sword and pistol, rather than the greatsword which you will be using for like a whopping five minutes if you’re lucky.

But in most situation you will have long iwardenS uptime

Against a boss, you’re better off with sw/sw + sw/p if the fight doesn’t require reflects, they’re better DPS. This is also why you trait the sword and pistol with 30 in dueling rather than the lamesword.

P.p.S. sword OH is not as good as pistol/focus because iswordman dies really easy and stacks less bleeding

Off-hand sword has a faster recharge than pistol and warden, and will hit for something like 8k in a dungeon. Pistol will hit for about 9/10k + bleeds but its attack has a channel and it has a slower recharge. Warden gives you a big number (about 15k), but has a slow attack and slow recharge, you use focus for utility, not DPS, OH sword and pistol are your main DPS sources.

Also the parrying is the most useless PVE skill in the game since won t block most Attacks EXPECIALLY if agony is involved

So you’re saying negating a boss’ one-shot attack and hitting them back for like 8k is useless.

Okay.

@AndrewSX

stuff

I basically agree with everything you wrote. GS is drop iZerker then do nothing until you can swap to a decent weapon set, whereas sword + focus/pistol/sword gives us a good phantasm again, but opens us up to boon stripping, dealing greater damage to enemies without a boon in the final attack of the sword chain, blurred frenzy so you can keep hitting when an enemy does a big attack, off-hand sword’s block, and magic bullet can even take the pressure off your team when dealing with trash – dredge can’t be hit by blinds but the stun and daze work.

@skcamow

Utility isn’t the “excuse”, it’s the norm for a mesmer and doesn’t mean you use it as a crutch, it means you’re playing smartly. I was in melee in the video as I should have been because of the point you made about receiving boons from others in the party (which I’m often irked about w/longbow rangers) AND I have a might stacking build which requires me to be in melee range w/GS to get the mirror blade bounce. Again, I can’t control my party make-up most of the time so boon stacking/sharing builds are a great way to balance out a party.

Might stacking doesn’t really do much when you’re in a party with scrubs in PVT or rampager. What’s the point in buffing their power when they’re doing shoddy amage already? Critical damage scales with power, and if they’re not getting many crits due to poor precision, or they hardly even rely on them in the first place (rampager), might isn’t going to be making that much of a difference. I’d rather go full glass and contribute with raw DPS, supporting my team with reflects if necessary, and signet of inspiration if there was nothing else worth taking than trying to buff bad DPS in to being … slightly less bad.

though as I don’t like waiting for the sword CD’s when swapping. I have run sc/p – sw/f in the past and it’s not too bad, but scepter is definitely not ideal. The problem is we don’t have an additional power weapon to choose from when going with 2 weapons per set.

It’s not like we have any other better weapon to use main hand. Seems to me you prefer to actually be doing something and pressing your skills, whereas I’m content maximising my DPS with autoattack when my phantasms are up or on cooldown and there’s nothing else to do.

@Helios

GS is definitely the way to go imo

Have you not actually read any of my posts on the greatsword?

Then 20 in Chaos for trait your GS

Or you do the logical thing and not waste 20 points in a useless talent tree to try and make a bad weapon better. If you actually meant domination, you stick 10 in for empowered illusions and that’s it.

After that 20 points in Dueling makes the most sense

Actually, 30 does.

@colesy, pressing my skills? not sure what you’re getting at there …

Bottom line is this. You apparently have the luxury of playing with a group of players that are experienced and know the dungeons you’re facing very well, well enough to play with sword as MH on both your weapon sets (a disadvantage, in my opinion). If I was in that type of group, I would be inclined to agree with much of what you say on one level.

The fact remains though I’m sure there are mesmers who play this game that don’t have that luxury and using the GS isn’t such a bad idea (at least in the case I presented) and in other situations as discussed. In light of that, universally bashing the GS like you do just doesn’t make sense, in my opinion.

@colesy, pressing my skills? not sure what you’re getting at there …

What I mean is that you prefer to be casting skills rather than 1111111111’ing for the win. There’s nothing wrong with it, autoattacking (and I have mine so it continues without me clicking again so for me it’s just 1) is pretty dull, and I have more fun doing an actual combat rotation. You said you don’t like waiting for sword cooldowns, but you don’t even need to use them, plus if you switch between off-hands it’s not like the mainhand cooldowns reset or anything.

Bottom line is this. You apparently have the luxury of playing with a group of players that are experienced and know the dungeons you’re facing very well, well enough to play with sword as MH on both your weapon sets (a disadvantage, in my opinion). If I was in that type of group, I would be inclined to agree with much of what you say on one level.

The fact remains though I’m sure there are mesmers who play this game that don’t have that luxury and using the GS isn’t such a bad idea (at least in the case I presented) and in other situations as discussed. In light of that, universally bashing the GS like you do just doesn’t make sense, in my opinion.

It’s nothing to do with having an experienced group, I run sword/sword and sword/pistol full berserker phantasm even with PUGs as well.

Here’s how you run sword/x and sword/y.

Learn to dodge.

Done.

Mesmers have so much survivability with a fat HP pool and two sources of distortion that you can even take a few hits if you slip up, unlike a lightning hammer ele where it’s basically miss one dodge then gg – I can understand PUGs not wanting to use that, it’s a build which you basically exclusively use in a competent group unless you’re confident you can dodge almost all damage. Greatsword though is generally just a crutch weapon used by bads who aren’t willing to learn how to dodge since it lets you camp range. And then if you can dodge … why would you use a subpar weapon.

Oh look, someone who doesn’t read my posts and just jumps on the hate train. You know, as much as pyroatheist doesn’t like my attitude he’s even admitted that I’m mostly right about the things I say here. When I’m wrong, I will own up to it, except there is nothing showing that I’m wrong about greatsword.

If you can’t see why the greatsword, our only ranged main hand weapon (with a 1200 range), is useful in dungeons, then I don’t know what game you’ve been playing for the past 8+ months

I’ve been playing the same game as you. Your mention of it being 1,200 range just shows to me that you’re bad at dungeons.

Mesmers will benefit most in PvE by going full zerker, which will make them super glassy, meaning close-range combat is only going to be occurring in bursts.

And yet full berserker mesmers have no problem going full melee on rampaging ice elemental at fractal 48, giganticus lupicus in Arah, subject alpha in CoE, all three AC bosses and more. I wouldn’t even consider myself a good player (I consier myself decent) and I go full melee as much as possible. If you’re doing close-range combat in bursts, then you need to learn to play.

So what are you going to be doing the rest of the time whilst you’re at range

Well I do the logical thing at the start of a fight and close distance.

How about the many instances where certain enemies are best attacked from range and/or kited?

There are not many instances like that at all. I believe I mentioned the Melandru boss in Arah, Imbued Shaman in high-level grawl fractal and the first Jade Maw tentacle because aggroing all of the trash mobs is a waste of time. Did you even know Evolved Husk in CoE p2 can be melee’d in under two minutes, completely bypassing the golem mechanic, and sustaining yourself through the bad ground mechanic (this is a group of five zerkers sustaining, just to note). I had a go at it a few days ago with the group I run with and wiped, obviously down to a lack of experience and I’m guessing a lack of condi removal, but it’s perfectly achievable.

You can’t rely on your phantasms for all of your damage, in large part due to AoE destroying them, often after only a single attack

Phantasms are a little more survivable than people give them credit for. That’s not to say there aren’t times they just eat a one-shot and it’s gg, but setting up duelists against a melee boss, or even swordsman who leap back out of range is surprisingly easy to sustain. Besides, it’s not like the group is going to be afk’ing while my phantasms go and take a nap on the floor, they can deal their own damage too.

and you’re certainly not going to be standing right next to your target mashing your sword auto for the entirety of the time

Oh how wrong you are. Mash sword auto, pop frenzy to evade an attack, pop illusionary riposte to block an attack, dodge the next, frenzy the next, dodge the next, dodge, riposte. Easy. It’s a learn to play issue. Rather than make an effort to improve however, you blame the weapon.

If you run double main hand swords, you’re either going to need to be carried due to dying a lot,

Strange, today in CoE my party hit the floor quite a few times against mobs and alpha fights while I sat there with my three phantasms up, cruising through the fight.

, or you’re going to be putting out very sporadic and inconsistent damage due to the focus you’ll need to put into constant dodging and not getting downed

The only thing that makes my damage inconsistent is my phantasms biting the dust. And having to focus on a fight? What, do you think you should just be able to brain-afk fights? It’s catering to people like you which is what makes the dungeons such a faceroll in their current state, you don’t want to put any effort in.

It’s viable, but hardly obviously superior to the GS.

Let’s see, the autoattack with the highest DPS (which comes with boon removal), a great second skill to maintain DPS through a boss attack, and a third skill for shatter fodder. Off-hand, we have the focus which oozes utility (positioning mobs, reflecting projectiles, even condi-cleanse off of the curtain + whirl finisher which means phantasmal warden can be AOE condition removal), pistol hitting for like 8-10k in a dungeon, stacking eight bleeds and when interacting with an ethereal field, 8 stacks of confusion which is about 1k damage per skill activation. Off-hand sword gives a hard-hitting phantasm with incredibly fast recharge and a block that can negate an entire attack. Greatsword gives us useless, useless, useless, good phantasm and useless.

More below.

The greatsword offers the most consistent and reliable damage in dungeons

Shame the damage itself is pitiful. Going at 900 range also drops you out of boon radius from your team so you’re not getting might stacks.

with the least risk of getting one-shot due to being too close to your target too often

I don’t know about you, but blurred frenzy did a lot more for saving myself from one-shots than the lamesword’s 4 useless abilities + phantasm ever did for me. One-shot attacks are clearly choreographed too, so easy to avoid, and so there’s no reason to camp range unless you want to brain-afk the fight, which you seemingly want to do by camping at range.

Mesmers are taken in dungeons due to their utility, not damage, so that makes moot the whole argument about superior DPS, anyway (which in itself is arguable when weighing risk to reward).

Being taken for utility is no excuse for allowing your damage output to be bad. In CoF p1, our utility is curtain then feedback. Then it’s curtain. Then it’s portal, then it’s feedback. That’s not enough for us to justify not bothering to deal damage. And the risk/reward is a non-issue since there’s practically no risk if you don’t shut your brain off.

Any intelligent team would prefer their Mesmer stay at range, putting out good damage, and using their utility as intended,

This was actually painful to read. Any intelligent team would prefer their Mesmer stay in melee, putting out good damage and using their utility as intended. The rule for this game is melee damage > range damage, so the hypothetical intelligent team would rather their mesmer could actually see the red circles on the ground and … dodge out of them, rather than camping range sitting on 0 might stacks while the rest of the team is at 25, in full melee. Please, just watch a DS (Dhuum Stucker), LoD (Legion of Doom), DnT (Death and Taxes) or HS (Define) run of any dungeon on youtube. If that’s too much hassle, make a thread in the dungeon forum. You probably won’t because you know you would get absolutely demolished for suggesting range.

getting downed far more and therefore making less use of the utility that they were taken for in the first place,

You mean the utilities that are mostly dropped at the start of a fight and are on long cooldowns? Take slave driver in CoF p1, you signet, focus pull him to the wall, time warp, drop warden, swap, drop pistol or swordsman, autoattack. If you die, big deal, the boss dies anyway.

or alternatively spending most of their time trying to avoid damage at close range

You’re trying awful hard to make melee combat sound challenging. Does the idea of turning your brain on so you know to dodge scare you? Or are you just a bad player with poor timing?

More below.

A Mesmer with a greatsword and sword/focus, with a focus traited for reflect, spending most of their time on the greatsword (utilizing its skills when available),

Utilising what skills? Camping weak DPS auto, the useless second ability, the useless third ability, the awful fifth ability and then the phantasm which is the one good thing about it?

and switching to sword/focus for some burst and reflection when the cooldowns are ready, will be an infinitely more consistent Mesmer than one relying wholly on their phantasms and close-range auto-attack for damage.

Why not burst the whole time with OH sword and OH pistol? If reflections are needed, swap your OH pistol out for focus. Warden isn’t more consistent either since it has a long channeled attack so it can easily die mid-way through, whereas swordsman is an instant hit, and duelist has a shorter channel and faster recharge.

So, anyway, OP, don’t listen to colesy. Plenty of experienced and competent Mesmers will attest to the fact that the greatsword is in fact one of our best PvE weapons.

Try claiming that in the dungeon forum, you’ll get beaten to a pulp.

Anyway, sorry for the giant walls of boredom to anyone who actually read all of that, but if somebody attempts to ignore and dismiss what I say, and the only reason for it is because they are bad rather than weapon X actually being better than weapon Y, then I’m going to say something. This is also the very reason I show minimal respect to people unless they’ve shown they know what they’re talking about, I’m sick of dealing with bads who think they’re right.

Mesmers with Twilight, Mesmers with Twilight everywhere.

They need to justify the GS in a build to show it off.

/joke

Ps: Legendary for Mesmer? Bolt. Period. Maybe Bifrost if you really want.

GS is a pretty poor weapon in most PvE situations to be honest. I always find myself going back to staff for the boons and utility despite never using condition builds. The 5 knockback is useless 90% of the time in groups and 3 is just weak period. Mirrorblade is counterintuitive because it requires you to be almost in melee range to get the Might stacks. That said it’s by far our best zerg tagging weapon when combined with high precision and a Sigil of Fire.

I went with the Infinite Light for my “legendary”. Not a fan of Bolt and I see 20+ Twilights/Sunrises a day.

Why people use GS in dungeon:

1) reliable AoE a problem mesmer has
2) fast illusion spam (2)
3) range….despite you are often melee sometimes range is needed
4) opener for burst
5) best single target attack when you need to pull
6) nice pushback
7) cripple

If its true that in some situation you’d like to have another OH weapon like a pistol or a sword…when you want versatility you go GS.

People get twiligt/eternity as legendary also because they like the skin and they don t need to be unique to be beautiful.
Also using a GS on a light class is fun.

Bolt on the other hand seems more a mace than a sword….doesn t appeals much to a caster class while a blade of “space” or “sky” is way more fitting for people tastes.

LordByron.8369:

Why people use GS in dungeon:

1) reliable AoE a problem mesmer has

-a single phant every 20 sec is not going to change this. Also phant is AI thus unreliable – zerk can easily get killed before spinning. The auto is aoe but does a c*rap dmg, average at 1200 range.
Sword auto (and BF) cleaves. And hit much harder. Pair with focus for warden. AoE issue solved.

2) fast illusion spam (2)

-if you need a illusion spam pick DE. But if you’re running a phant build you don’t need either of them.

3) range….despite you are often melee sometimes range is needed

-technically you can meele everything. that said, even if you reall need range, duelist and swordsman alone are better than the whole GS package.

4) opener for burst

- ileap with aoe immobilize + BF is much better.

5) best single target attack when you need to pull

-everything with 1200 range works for pulling.

6) nice pushback

-intothevoid > GS push

7) cripple

-sword has aoe immobilize.

LordByron.8369:

If its true that in some situation you’d like to have another OH weapon like a pistol or a sword…when you want versatility you go GS.

How about no. Gs versatility is minimal – average dmg at range, under 1200 become c*rap. The 2nd skill bounces are unpredictable thus unreliable for might. 3rd skill is useless in 99% of situations. like 5th. as said already, GS is iZerk and nothing more.

LordByron.8369:

People get twiligt/eternity as legendary also because they like the skin and they don t need to be unique to be beautiful.
Also using a GS on a light class is fun.

Both of this things doesn’t have any impact on GS effectiveness tho, which is what we’re talking about.

Bolt on the other hand seems more a mace than a sword….doesn t appeals much to a caster class while a blade of “space” or “sky” is way more fitting for people tastes.

But Bolt is a sword, thus better than Twilight/Sunrise, cause they’re GS.

How good is a weapon look is a personal opinion, and has nothing to with a weapon real effectiveness – has no place in this dicussion.

also, re-read colesy posts.