Guild Wars 2

Hey guys, I’m hoping someone out there can help me crunch some numbers.
Just having trouble determining which build would be the most optimal/highest dmg.

To put things into context this is for PVE/WvW, shatter build. GS + SW/SW
Difference is build 1 has “Dazzling” in domination and “Empowered Illusions” +100 power but loses out on 100precision and 10%crit dmg.

Build 2 has “Confusing Combatants” and “Phantasmal Fury” -100power but +100precision and 10% crit dmg.

10/30/0/0/30
Attack: 3111
Power: 2111
Crit chance: 62%
Crit dmg: 106%

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8clwzKqHVTmGb9ICqHYH49dkK0alewbXIuB-jECBYLCyEFAkFQEBwJPFRjtMsIas6aYKXER1A-w
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20/20/0/0/30
Attack: 3211
Power: 2211
Crit chance: 57%
Crit dmg: 96%

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8clwzKqHVTmGb9ICqHYH49dkU0aqWJF82FC-jECBYLCyEFAkFQEBwJPFRjtMsIas6aYKXER1A-w
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Build 1 gives the option of traiting into “Shattered Concentration” and “Greatsword Training”. How important is shattered concentration? Are there any fights we cant win without this?
Build 2 really only gives us the option of “Far-reaching Manipulations”

Thanks in advance.

I’d say 20/20. You can stack lots of vulnerability with Dazzling and Shattered Concentration is a big help (although you already have some boonstripping from GS #3, sword #1 and null field).

You could also very well drop Blade Training for Phantasmal Fury, since you have Illusionists Celerity.

For Power Part Build 1 vs Build 2:
2111/2211 = 0,9547xxxxx → Deal 95,47% compared Build 2 (4,5% weaker from Build 2)

For Crit damage Part Build 1 vs Build 2:
106% Crit damage on stat = 2,56 Multiplier
96% Crit damage on stat = 2,46 Multiplier
2,56/2,46 = 1,04065xxxxx → Build 1 deal 4.065% More compared Build 2

Kinda forget how to calculate. Well that’s what my Math Wizard taught to me.
New Power/ Old Power = The result x100 = That;s the %.

10/30 is better dps (see attached) from an objective standpoint.

Now for what is better utility. I’ll first say I strongly feel that a PvE dungeon build will never be a good WvW build and the same in reverse.

I’ll start with PvE as that is strongest area (if your mainly focusing open world, most of this will not apply).

In PvE shatter damage is sadly lacking. Shatter is all about dealing a sudden burst which works great in dropping targets in PvP content. Against the larger health pools and toughness of dungeon mobs however shatter damage cannot sustain over long periods of time like phantasms do.

Further, one of the best utilities mesmer brings to dungeon groups lies in projectile defense, so having 20 in inspiration (glamour CDs and focus CDs/reflection) is invaluable. In prolonged fights where reflection is needed having a warden get a second rotation off is another strike against shatter builds.

The most popular dungeon builds are variants of 10/30/0/20/10 and 0/20/0/25/25 currently and focus on phantasm DPS – only shattering when defense is needed (f4) or when a mob is about to die (f1).

If you wanted to still attempt shatters. something to the effect of 0/20/0/20/30 would probably be best, but you’re choice would become sacrificing utility (focus reflects), clones on dodge, 20% extra damage on shatters or IP. I’m figuring the 4th shatter effect is going to matter more (and feel more like what you’re used to) than the damage mod. Also the build becomes hard to play without clones on dodge and I would be 100% unwilling to sacrifice projectile defense utility as that is one of the main reasons mesmers are valued for dungeon play.

I really wish I could help more here, as I started with shatter builds… but they really are less then ideal for dungeon play

WvW

I think this depends on if you’re playing with friends or not – and further if these friends are on some sort of voice chat with you.

With the weapons and utilities you’ve listed the only daze you have is stopping your block early on sword 4 or on your f3. In the case of f3, I’d fear the person you’ve targeted is going to either cleanse the condi or retreat before you can get clones up again to capitalize on it. In which case I’d value the higher raw damage of 10/30.

With a group however, you can use the daze on sword 4 followed by you’re and your team mates bursts. Or you can just use f3 for a CC and vuln while you’re team mates take advantage. I’d also value the boon removal on shatters more in that case as it could take off protection further aiding your team mates attack.

Once again, I’m not as well versed in WvW so feel free to take all this with a grain of salt.

The answer is simple. If you use pistol: 10/30. If you use sword 20/20. Talking about offhand. What do you pick more often? Also beeing on illusion trait means you have reduced shatter abilities, so F3 has lower cd with makes 20/20 more attractive.

durend.6237:

In PvE shatter damage is sadly lacking. Shatter is all about dealing a sudden burst which works great in dropping targets in PvP content. Against the larger health pools and toughness of dungeon mobs however shatter damage cannot sustain over long periods of time like phantasms do.

This^ :/

I’d suggest the 10/30/0/0/30 Sw/Sw Sw/P build. You can switch a few traits and skills around to bolster either Phantasms or Shatter depending on the situation. Shatter is good for clearing trash when you have to, Phantasms are much better for sustained damage. When running Phantasms in this it’s sustained damage is competitive DPS if you can maintain 2x phantasms most of the time. If you have a patient group you can switch to Phantasm mode before bosses. It does lack reflects that Inspiration gives but the build does well in most cases.

GL
Blood~

I’m a bit confused. You are talking about a shatter build and do not know to take Empowered Illusions or Phantasmal Fury. While both are decent traits there is close to no reason to pick those in a shatter build.

If you really want to play shatter, I personally would pick 20/20/0/0/30 with Mental Torment and either Shattered Concentration or Greatsword Training.

Xaylin.1860:

I’m a bit confused. You are talking about a shatter build and do not know to take Empowered Illusions or Phantasmal Fury. While both are decent traits there is close to no reason to pick those in a shatter build.

If you really want to play shatter, I personally would pick 20/20/0/0/30 with Mental Torment and either Shattered Concentration or Greatsword Training.

There’s better choices for Empowered Illusions, but Phantasmal Fury is totally valid trait for shatter builds. For me atleast it usually comes down to Far-Reaching Manipulations vs. Phantasmal Fury for dueling adept. I don’t think Blade Training is worth it for 50 precision and -2½s cooldown on BF.

Just because you play a shatter doesn’t mean your phantams can’t do any damage.

20/20 with boon strip shatter is by far greater dps than 10/30. (This being from PvP interaction standpoint) Not only do you get increased damage from the stack vulnerability, but the boon-strip element is the most critical part, since you can remove stuff like protection and regen, resulting in less DPS mitigation, making the damage you do count.

For roaming ive been using 10/20/10/0/30 lately, blink is actually one of my favourite skills :P

In 20/20 you have the boon strip, or empowered illusions if you use strong phantasms.
10/30 has… Some more precision and critical damage. Ive always believed in “trait for traits, not for stats”, so I’d probably go with 20/20

Im not actually sure if I like blade trainig, it just feels like it doesnt have an impact on blurred frenzy with the new cooldown. It used to be awesome before it got nerfed, so ill occasionally use it anyway just for the happy memories :/… And then 10/30

edit: zerglings you meet while roaming more often than not use a horrible build that doesnt use much boons. Chances are, your boon strip wont help much, especially when you plan to insta kill people :P

i just want to add GS #3 can go real nice with shattered concentration. i want to thank everyone that posted. very constructive. long live the shattering mes!

Thanks for all the great replies.
Good arguments either side, still hard to decide. I’ll have to do some testing.

@durend.6237 I agree focus is the most optimal OH for mesmers in dungeons/fractals. Majority of my mesmering has been a reflect traited phantasm spec

@Bloodgruve.6038 I like your idea but if I was to, i’d have to go scepter/pistol + sw/sw only because I feel skills 1-3 are wasted. Love izerker too much though xD

@Noss.4105 Spot on there. That’s ideally what I’d like to achieve. The highest hitting phantasm I can pull off whilst having 30 points invested in illusions, to either add to my burst or to summon after a clone wrack.

@Xaylin.1860 That’s why I have Empowered Illusions, but I also brought up Shattered Concentration for the very reason you and others have mentioned. I guess the question is 1. Which build will iswordsman hit hardest with then 2. If the build isn’t 20/20, how important is shattered concentration?

Any other trait setups I’m overlooking for highest hitting iswordsman?

Thanks again for your replies

Kiibz.7346:

@Bloodgruve.6038 I like your idea but if I was to, i’d have to go scepter/pistol + sw/sw only because I feel skills 1-3 are wasted. Love izerker too much though xD

Reason for Sword/Sword and Sword/Pistol is that Sword MH simply does the best damage. BF is nice and if you weapon swap on cooldown you turn a 10s cooldown to a 20s cooldown while waiting for your swap to refresh. If you want the best damage you’ll want to run in Sword MH as much as possible.

I like GSword a lot, if feels good but it does 8% to 11% less damage then Sw/Sw or Sw/P depending on the number of Phantasms you have on the board. I still run it regardless of this though, I just usually lead off with GSword then switch to S/S for a majority of the fight. 20/20/0/0/30 can still be switched around from phantasm to shatter but you’d be running GSword and Sword/Sword mostly.

If you want the highest damage build, I’ve found it to be 30/30/0/0/10 Mantrasm so far. Sw/Sw and Sw/P again but I’ll run GSword in place of P sometimes too. You lose the ability to go full Shatter with this though.

GL
Blood~