What's wrong with our Greatsword?!

What's wrong with our Greatsword?!

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Posted by: Hermos.2389

Hermos.2389

People keep telling me to go S/F or S/S in Dungeons, and I’m just here, spamming my Illusionary Berserker and shattering like a boss.

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Posted by: Curunen.8729

Curunen.8729

Melee damage > ranged damage.

Sustained phantasm damage against the pve bullet sponges > burst shatter damage.

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Posted by: Sorel.4870

Sorel.4870

Play what you like, as long as you are not in elitist dungeon groups.

That being said, GS damage is really low, even at max range and interrupting the cast, it is lower than most ranged AA in the game. And it is definitely lower than any power-based melee AA. Sword is better that way.

Also, shatter deals less damage over time than phantasms. You will still succeed with a shatter build though, only a bit slower.

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Posted by: redcomyn.4651

redcomyn.4651

I leveled my mesmer using greatsword, with the staff as my secondary weapon. It works great. The GS may not have as much damage as the sword, but you are certainly safer at range than in melee range. Mesmer’s are lightly armored and take lots of damage.

I did try the sword a few times. I died far more often. So I stick with the range weapons. I kill slower, but I die a lot less.

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Posted by: data.4093

data.4093

People keep telling me to go S/F or S/S in Dungeons, and I’m just here, spamming my Illusionary Berserker and shattering like a boss.

You need to learn the mechanics of dungeons, boon sharing and why people stack.

I leveled my mesmer using greatsword, with the staff as my secondary weapon. It works great. The GS may not have as much damage as the sword, but you are certainly safer at range than in melee range. Mesmer’s are lightly armored and take lots of damage.

I did try the sword a few times. I died far more often. So I stick with the range weapons. I kill slower, but I die a lot less.

You sound like a bearbow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSCrskT-z9w

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Posted by: Sorel.4870

Sorel.4870

People keep telling me to go S/F or S/S in Dungeons, and I’m just here, spamming my Illusionary Berserker and shattering like a boss.

You need to learn the mechanics of dungeons, boon sharing and why people stack.

I leveled my mesmer using greatsword, with the staff as my secondary weapon. It works great. The GS may not have as much damage as the sword, but you are certainly safer at range than in melee range. Mesmer’s are lightly armored and take lots of damage.

I did try the sword a few times. I died far more often. So I stick with the range weapons. I kill slower, but I die a lot less.

You sound like a bearbow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSCrskT-z9w

PvE is meant to be a chill game mode. Let people play what they like to play.

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Posted by: Curunen.8729

Curunen.8729

People keep telling me to go S/F or S/S in Dungeons, and I’m just here, spamming my Illusionary Berserker and shattering like a boss.

You need to learn the mechanics of dungeons, boon sharing and why people stack.

I leveled my mesmer using greatsword, with the staff as my secondary weapon. It works great. The GS may not have as much damage as the sword, but you are certainly safer at range than in melee range. Mesmer’s are lightly armored and take lots of damage.

I did try the sword a few times. I died far more often. So I stick with the range weapons. I kill slower, but I die a lot less.

You sound like a bearbow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSCrskT-z9w

PvE is meant to be a chill game mode. Let people play what they like to play.

I think there’s more toxicity in pve than there is in pvp.

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Posted by: lordhelmos.7623

lordhelmos.7623

Nothing is wrong with the GS but to be successful on any class you have to lose attachment to any 1 weapon and see them as tools.

Greatsword autoattack damage is lower than other weapons but it has its purpose.

1.) It is completely unblockable and good for enemies with high block uptime or reflects (such as the butcher in HoTW p1). GS also strikes in a line, making it good for tagging in general pve events and destroying objectives that are behind other enemies/damagable obstacles. It also strikes INSTANTLY up to 1200m with no projectile, so its the most reliable tagging weapon in the game.

2.) GS has the highest shatter burst out of any weapon with izerk > mirrored blade > mindstab > mindwrack. Izerk is also a very strong phantasm only second to AoE damage to the iWarden.

3.) GS is weak for sustained damage, iDuelist x3 will outdamage it by a heavy margin. For prolonged fights, the pistol is a better ranged weapon.

4.) GS 5 is one of the better and more reliable knockbacks when you need it (pushing enemies off downed people, pushing the protector off the furnace core in the molten fractal).

5.) With illusionary elasticity mirrored blade grants significant party might.

It has limited PvE use but is a very strong general open world, wvw, and pvp weapon.

Standard dungeon PvE loadout for a mesmer is sword/pistol + offhand focus on set 2. The GS is swapped in for very specific situations. For anything open world (silverwastes), this is your go to weapon.

Since there will be very limited dungeon content for the foreseeable future, you will probably be using GS alot.

(edited by lordhelmos.7623)

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

http://dulfy.net/2014/07/21/gw2-mesmer-pve-class-guide-by-sanderinoa/

See this guide. It may be slightly outdated but it will explain everything to you (it does say that shattering is okay when you know your clones or your target is about to die). And yeah GS is a handicap tool for most of PvE. The only way I can see you actually using GS in PvE is for ranging Lupi in Arah if your group isn’t experienced enough to comfortably melee him (although thats slow as kitten and creates some more problems). Plus with feedback you can kinda instagib Lupi rather easily if they didn’t change how that fight worked in the past year.

But that being said for sword builds, it can be tough surviving if you’re not stacked, so thats why dodging and blurred frenzy (sans retal) are important. But yeah I agree that the toxicity of PvE can be kind of horrible sometimes. Especially when people kick necromancers and rangers on sight, but don’t care about GS mesmers as long as they portal and reflect where appropriate, even though necros and rangers running their meta specs can extremely out damage a GS mes.

Also the 5 skill on GS can annoy some groups if stacked. The focus temporal curtain pull is generally recommended as a much more useful skill than GS 5.

Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..

(edited by nearlight.3064)

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Posted by: Vizardlorde.8243

Vizardlorde.8243

GS#5= aoe Lb ranger #4 which may cause insta kick in some groups

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Posted by: redcomyn.4651

redcomyn.4651

About my mesmer, that one individual says is like a bearbow, I only do open world pve. Neither pvp nor dungeons hold any interest for me. So I really don’t care what others think about my build. I play for fun, not to be frustrated by constant dirt naps trying to meet the expectations of others, people that I don’t even know.

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Posted by: frifoxy.6014

frifoxy.6014

I play for fun, not to be frustrated by constant dirt naps trying to meet the expectations of others, people that I don’t even know.

That’s the mindset of someone who is ok with being bad and is refusing to change that. Of course you will be met with harsh remarks, what else did you expect…

Mesmer Calc: Power DPS | Condi DPS
Mesmer Data: Attack Rates & Coefficients
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Posted by: Exciton.8942

Exciton.8942

Only ranged dps, no utility.
Only as a backup in most dungeon plays. But pretty useful for tagging when braindead farming.

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Posted by: Tomas.5029

Tomas.5029

Greatsword is a good soloing/wvw weapon but in dungeons/fractals it’s really weak. Currently there is no place for a party member standing far, far back trying to snipe, it’s all about getting face to face with mobs and the bosses, and as we know, GS’s auto attack power is dependant on how far away you are from your target.
Maybe someday this will change, but for now it is what it is, and if you care even remotely about being useful and efficient, you need to adapt.
So considering that you will be in melee range 99,9% of the time, the relatively okay-ish iZerker pales in the comparition of Sword’s Vulnerability stacking, Boon ripping auto attack, low cd distortion, and the pistol/off sword/focus phantasm.

—Engi main tryhards unite!—

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

About my mesmer, that one individual says is like a bearbow, I only do open world pve. Neither pvp nor dungeons hold any interest for me. So I really don’t care what others think about my build. I play for fun, not to be frustrated by constant dirt naps trying to meet the expectations of others, people that I don’t even know.

OP is specifically asking about dungeons not open world PvE. I know you (and in general the “bear bow” types) like to do whatever you want but at least take the time to read a few sentences.

Being ranged (using GS) in a dungeon to me says one of a few things.
1. You don’t know the mechanics of the boss or instance and didn’t ask or
2. You play the way you want and everyone else can eff off, in which case you’re not a team player and can do one yourself or
3. You don’t understand the way melee works, group buffs and how generally melee weapons do more damage.

If you wanna run round with a character called enterprise and role play going pew pew with a GS in open world that’s fine. I’ll have a little chuckle when I see the character name, maybe say nice name and leave you to it. It’s your right to play how you like and so long as no-one is relying on you to perform a certain task it’s great fun.

Edit: And before someone says “dungeons are face roll easy do what you like”. I agree they are easy but I do not like spending half an hour to an hour watching a bunch of people range bosses, run away, get hit, die and reset a fight when the whole dungeon can be done in 5-10 mins.

The reason for this is I only get to play for a certain amount of time in the evenings and would like to get some gold pretty quickly then maybe head into WvW where you don’t get much gold. It’s not toxicity, it’s valuing my time.

(edited by apharma.3741)

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Posted by: maha.7902

maha.7902

People keep telling me to go S/F or S/S in Dungeons, and I’m just here, spamming my Illusionary Berserker and shattering like a boss.

you might as well have said

“people keep telling me how to play better but I’m just sitting here being bad”

idk man, if you want to play better you’ll take their advice, if you want to just do what you enjoy then that’s cool too

Serah Mahariel – Death and Taxes

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Posted by: Bran.7425

Bran.7425

GS#5= aoe Lb ranger #4 which may cause insta kick in some groups

More likely they will try to blame a ranger for it even if there aren’t any in the group or nearby then login to the forum to complain about longbow.

It is a shame that they didn’t put the effort into designing more content that stack and spank isn’t the ‘best’ option

Pets have been hidden due to rising Player complaints.

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Posted by: Sorel.4870

Sorel.4870

More likely they will try to blame a ranger for it even if there aren’t any in the group

kitten, I’m spotted.

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Posted by: maha.7902

maha.7902

GS#5= aoe Lb ranger #4 which may cause insta kick in some groups

More likely they will try to blame a ranger for it even if there aren’t any in the group or nearby then login to the forum to complain about longbow.

It is a shame that they didn’t put the effort into designing more content that stack and spank isn’t the ‘best’ option

because tank and spank in all the other games is far more interesting amirite

Serah Mahariel – Death and Taxes

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Posted by: redcomyn.4651

redcomyn.4651

Yeah, looks like I missed the part about the op asking about the dungeons. I have no opinion about the dungeons seeing that I have never done them.

But I am bad? In open world pve? I was much worse using the sword. Using the sword, I lost more fights than I won, either dying or having to run away. It simply didn’t work for me. I was much more successful with GS/Staff. I think that I will go with what actually works for me in my personal experience. I have also seen many others not using the so-called meta weapons. I think that what is ‘bad’ or ‘good’ is more opinion and play style than fact.

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Posted by: frifoxy.6014

frifoxy.6014

GS is fine in open world, in fact I’d argue it’s better than sword and this is because open world is so dead easy and mobs are so weak that it’s simply faster to kill it with GS at range than run in to melee and kill it with a sword. 6/6/0/0/2 with all 4 mantras charged – one GS2 and the mob is dead, and if not dead then then it surely will with following GS3+F1. For veterans and champs, of course, I do swap to sw/sw or sw/p.

Dungeons are a whole different story, GS burst is nowhere near enough to kill the boss which is why sw/x is the king there and GS is cancer due to its pathetically low DPS output.

Staff, as you mention running it, is a whole different story. The only use for it in open world pve is if you are running shatter or want to go with condi build. Otherwise it has no place in either game modes.

Mesmer Calc: Power DPS | Condi DPS
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Posted by: ProtoGunner.4953

ProtoGunner.4953

The fact that the low dps weapons like GS mesmer and bearbows are the most popular just shows how desinterested most are. I don’t care if they really want to dish out next to no damage and I get that ranged in zergs is very cozy, but don’t use that kittening knockback on cooldown. Even a real world friend told me once (he doesn’t play anymore and was just extremely casually levelling to 80) that it doesn’t matter, he just uses skills on CD.

‘would have/would’ve been’ —> correct
‘would of been’ —> wrong

(edited by ProtoGunner.4953)

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Posted by: Sebrent.3625

Sebrent.3625

The advice about seeing each weapon as a tool is spot on. Sometimes you will want that Greatsword when you need to ranged DPS some content where stacking in melee is not the best option.

Most of the time though, melee is a fine place to be and you do more damage with Sword + Focus / + Pistol.

If you don’t want to take advice when people give it that is up to you, but it will hinder you getting better … yes, I know, some of them don’t give it as advice and are jerks about it… that’s a separate topic.

As far as people talking about others being “elitist” when it comes to PvE … it is not elitist for me to want to complete content in 30 minutes instead of 3 hours when I can complete it in 30 minutes with people that know what they’re doing. That’s time management. If I wanted to volunteer to bring someone to teach it to, I would … and sometimes do. But it is not elitist to not want something to take a ridiculously longer amount of time to do.

It is childish to have feelings hurt over someone telling you a potentially better way to do something.

It is childish to think someone is being “elitist” because they don’t want to dump huge amounts of time to carry you. People play how they want. If they don’t want to carry, that’s the same as you not wanting to learn the content … just don’t play together since you want to play different ways.

Personally, I have a wife, 2 kids (3rd in 3 weeks), 3 dogs, and a full-time job. I don’t want to waste that much time on a single dungeon/fractal run since I don’t have all day to play the game. So, given that, if you’re causing what usually takes 30 minutes to take drastically longer, I’m going to first give you suggestions. If you aren’t receptive, I will find someone who is receptive because I am in no way obligated to let you drag things on.

Christian. Husband. Father. Friend. Developer. Gamer.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.

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Posted by: Daishi.6027

Daishi.6027

GS has pretty low DPS but even then I personally always feel like I’m missing out by going sword/x + sword/x. Outside of soloing arah I use one 2hander then main/off. But that’s all personal preference.

Unless your going to do high end frac or break speed run records, it all matters very little.

PvE is to easy to worry about min/maxing, play what you want.

“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”

(edited by Daishi.6027)

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Posted by: tobascodagama.2961

tobascodagama.2961

Being ranged (using GS) in a dungeon to me says one of a few things.
1. You don’t know the mechanics of the boss or instance and didn’t ask or
2. You play the way you want and everyone else can eff off, in which case you’re not a team player and can do one yourself or
3. You don’t understand the way melee works, group buffs and how generally melee weapons do more damage.

This this this this this.

I’m all for making a rational, informed choice to play suboptimally, provided that you’re aware of doing so and know what you’re giving up. GW2 is known for being a pretty casual MMO, so there’s nothing wrong with doing this in a group of like-minded fellows who understand that they’re not playing optimally and consent to taking things slow and easy.

But being asked to switch your weapon sets and refusing to do so is the mark of someone who puts their own personal enjoyment over that of their party. If your teammates are saying this, they’re clearly signalling that they’re trying to play the content optimally. If you’re not prepared to do that, you need to drop the party and free up the slot. Everyone will have a better time if you do.

Amberley Avalen – Charr Mesmer
Tanya Larina – Human Thief
Finchy Whyte – Sylvari Ranger

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Posted by: Clownmug.8357

Clownmug.8357

PSA: Mesmers have lower overall damage than most other professions no matter which weapon you use. If you care about achieving maximum damage, then play a different profession.

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Posted by: Curunen.8729

Curunen.8729

PSA: Mesmers have lower overall damage than most other professions no matter which weapon you use. If you care about achieving maximum damage, then play a different profession.

lol, good point.

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

PSA: Mesmers have lower overall damage than most other professions no matter which weapon you use. If you care about achieving maximum damage, then play a different profession.

I know. I do. It really annoys me too as I want Mesmer to be worth bringing in PvE outside of record runs with portal tricks. Sadly when your usual party is 1 guard, 1 PS warrior and a thief what is there for a Mesmer to do other than provide a time warp every 3 mins? Look pretty while everyone (including the mesmer) thinks “why didn’t they just bring their main which is an ele?”

This is why I’m posting on Mesmer forums and in particular threads about the trait changes and PvE as its the one chance mesmers will get for another 2-3 years to actually not suck as badly as they currently do at PvE. Mesmer is fun, it’s a fun design, it’s stylish but it is just so badly suited to PvE I’d rather bring a necro /cry.

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Posted by: redcomyn.4651

redcomyn.4651

When I use GS/Staff, I am usually on the GS. I use the staff defensively, when in melee range. I switch back to GS as soon as I can. But even though I limit my time on the staff, I have to say it is a heck of a lot more fun than the GS. I really, really wish it would hit harder.

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Posted by: tobascodagama.2961

tobascodagama.2961

PSA: Mesmers have lower overall damage than most other professions no matter which weapon you use. If you care about achieving maximum damage, then play a different profession.

If you follow this line of logic, it implies that we should use weapons which provide utility, and GS is not one of those. iBerzerker does ok damage, but iSwordsman does more and iWarden absorbs/reflects projectiles, while Blurred Frenzy lets you maintain DPS while evading damage. You’re attempting to argue for “use what you want” here, but actually this line of argument is exactly why S+S/F is the “meta” for dungeon Mesmers.

Amberley Avalen – Charr Mesmer
Tanya Larina – Human Thief
Finchy Whyte – Sylvari Ranger

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Posted by: Clownmug.8357

Clownmug.8357

PSA: Mesmers have lower overall damage than most other professions no matter which weapon you use. If you care about achieving maximum damage, then play a different profession.

If you follow this line of logic, it implies that we should use weapons which provide utility, and GS is not one of those. iBerzerker does ok damage, but iSwordsman does more and iWarden absorbs/reflects projectiles, while Blurred Frenzy lets you maintain DPS while evading damage. You’re attempting to argue for “use what you want” here, but actually this line of argument is exactly why S+S/F is the “meta” for dungeon Mesmers.

Actually, I’m not saying “use what you want,” I’m saying “who the **** cares.” Most groups composed of non-mesmers won’t even know that the sword auto attack is better because the damage is still almost nothing compared to theirs anyways.

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

Actually, I’m not saying “use what you want,” I’m saying “who the **** cares.” Most groups composed of non-mesmers won’t even know that the sword auto attack is better because the damage is still almost nothing compared to theirs anyways.

Yes they will or even worse they will be ignorant enough to think mesmers do no damage at all and never bother making or bringing one ever again. People who are good at running dungeons know classes, they know that being in melee means you’re being a team player and getting boons. They know that someone over 600 units away is (assuming they’re stacking 25 might) not getting might and therefore not doing anywhere near as much damage.

You’re using bear bow arguments now, it is a plague upon this game, one that should not be propagated. Even if you’re attacks at max range were to do the same damage as your melee weapon, the lack of might (also fury, possibly banners) you receive due to distance from party will make you do a lot less.

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Posted by: Clownmug.8357

Clownmug.8357

Wow, are there people that actually care if you stack with them as a mesmer? I think most just see mesmers as a utility bot for reflects and time warp. I’m starting to think the only reason people adhere to the sword + sword / sword + focus “meta” is because of the belief that everyone takes the game as seriously as they do.

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Posted by: Sebrent.3625

Sebrent.3625

There are plenty of people who care that the Mesmer stacks with them … the people that do content in a short amount of time.

As said before, if you’re with people that have agreed on a slower run, great. Otherwise, it is rather selfish to ignore the desires of the other 4 people in the group who want to “get it done” instead of “waiting on you”.

If you run with people who are that ignorant of things in the game, then you’re likely with a group that is fine with a slower run either out of choice or ignorance, so, yes, you do whatever you want … just don’t complain about them doing the same.

Back to the OP … Shattering in dungeons is used when burst is needed … which is very rare in dungeons where sustained DPS is king due to the damage sponges that are part of the content.

Sword + Focus with Pistol or Sword as your other offhand is the current way to go except for content that it’s better to range … in which case Greatsword is great in that it ignores anti-projectile mechanics.

Focus provides so much in PvE that I’m very surprised/disappointed when I don’t see another Mesmer using it in PvE.

Christian. Husband. Father. Friend. Developer. Gamer.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

Wow, are there people that actually care if you stack with them as a mesmer?

Yes, as with engy, ele, warrior, guard, ranger, thief and necro. Everyone stacks, even though I said 600 range for boons but they still stack.

I think most just see mesmers as a utility bot for reflects and time warp.

Yep, that’s what they’re reduced to most of the time and portal short cuts.

I’m starting to think the only reason people adhere to the sword + sword / sword + focus “meta” is because of the belief that everyone takes the game as seriously as they do.

Nope, they adhere to S/S+F because it offers the some of the best damage. It also gives a precision boost for your reflects and usually has trained focus because as we’ve established, you’re a reflect bot.

You say taking it seriously, I say completing things efficiently for the limited time I get to play. Sure you can have a blast doing 3 dungeons in 1hr30mins and playing how you want. That’s good, I’m glad you will but that doesn’t make it efficient, especially when my group has run 9 dungeons in the same time.