Guild Wars 2

This is weird for me. For all of GW2 history, I have disliked thieves. As a mesmer player, they used to make my life miserable. The stealths really used to annoy me and I slowly learned ways and means to at least put up a fight before dying. Auto attacks, throwing up blocks when I expect a BS, running into their black powder to disrput stealth stacking, CC’ing the black powder area, running Mantra of Resolve to instantly clear blinds etc.

But despite all that, I hated thieves. I would single them out on my mesmer and try and take them down. And in all the youtube videos of mesmers fighting thieves, I was rooting for my class to take the thief down. To teach that stealthing little snit a lesson.

All that changed on June 23rd.

I realized this as I was watching a WvW video of a thief and mesmer dueling and to my shock, I found myself rooting for the thief! This has never happened before. And the reason is of course simple.

Now mesmers are the stealthing little snits abusing stealth and bursting…more than the thief ever did. When I saw the thief stealth, I could see the mesmer make some defensive moves – port around, throw up a block to anticipate the time of reveal, CC shadow refuge, CC black powder, run into the black powder field to prevent stealth stacking etc.

But when the mesmer stealthed, there was nothing the thief could do. Apart from Mass invis which has a CD, the other mesmer stealth skills were insta cast. And the mes used Mass invis just as the other stealth was ending – essentially free. I felt bad for the thief. And let me tell you, this has never happened before.

What really gets me is the identity crisis the PU builds have created for me. I used to be the class that could hold the moral high ground with stealth. Clones, porting, deception – was what I would use to fight. Honest deception in the sense that the opponent would be able to combat me fairly.

But this…this repeated camping in stealth for long periods of time and bursting down. That was behavior I despised in thieves. And now we do it!. It’s worse actually because it can be done from range with no counterplay to repeated stealth unlike the thief.

I remember a time before the patch where mesmer PU builds were considered essentially trolling. “Real mesmers” shunned the stealth camping and ran shatter. I never ran shatter myself, because that’s not my playstyle, but hey – shatter was legit. Now that PU has been buffed unimaginably, mesmers have suddenly flocked to this despised trait that was considered “trolly” even before!

And of course…CS. What was Anet thinking with that! Made even worse by MoD recharging in the background.

I never thought I would be saying this. But mesmers are the bad guys now. My class that was my very first character in GW2, the one I have played 80% of my games on, the class that I love to bits really…is the one on the wrong side of the debate here.

It’s an identity crisis. I can’t come to terms with the fact that I’m the cheap one!.

Kudos to those mesmers who don’t run PU and who don’t use the broken CS traits. You do our class proud. I know, I know…I’m in the minority here. It’s just that for all of GW2’s history, the mesmer was my identity.

And now my identity is relegated to “that cheap class”. And boy, does it sting!

There are ups and downs to any profession. You enjoy the good with the bad.

I would say…don’t feel guilty and just enjoy being overpowered

I ran decoy and mass invis pre patch, I run decoy and mass invis post patch. Both untraited then as I do now. Since release, having experienced the presence of thieves out of the gate, I’ve always made sure to build as defined by their presence.

There’s no reason to feel sorry for them, or root for them. If they’re good they’re a threat, if they’re not they deserve to die so they can learn from their mistakes and come back stronger. The same is true of Mesmers. It was like this before the patch, it’s still like this now.

But good luck dealing with your personal crises :p

Oh, and Mesmers, play to win. If that means taking PU, CS, condi’s, a power setup, whatever, do it. Well done for playing to win. Anything less that giving it your all is selling yourself, your enemies, and the game short. Don’t resign yourself to being a scrub.

I had grown tired of the Shoutbow Warrior Meta and had almost totally switched over to playing Mes post patch. Yes, teef had the ability to just wreck you if they were even somewhat good, but against almost every other class you could easily take them down.

Now…I can’t even be bothered to play Mes. When you get a player to swap back to WARRIOR because it feels more skillful…you got a problem.

Confounding Suggestions, PU, and Blinding Dissipation and mantras charging up in the background are the biggest culprits. I’m totally cool with interrupts being rewarded. However, I actually get hit by Power Block with surprising infrequency. What’s killing me, and allowing me to kill them, is the stun from the mantra making landing a Shatter pathetically easy.

It’s really a shame, I used to defend Mes as the class that has similar mechanics to Teef but in the right moderation…now they both just seems silly.

Don’t start rooting for thieves just yet. Most are still running pre-patch builds with the new zerker amulets (i.e. no vit on them) making them hard hitting but super squishy. Their meta is changing. Once thieves start running more evade builds you will wish you had never made this thread. Imagine having on demand rolls that can remove conditions as well, that is essentially your evade thief. Their evade skills are possibly the most OP in the game at the moment. Most of these guys run with little stealth, that is how good it is.

bhagwad.4281:

I never thought I would be saying this. But mesmers are the bad guys now.

That is where your wrong. It’s called vindication. (Revenge. Payback. Getting some back.) The trolling & constant stupidity that most mesmer endured during the last 3 years out of the hands of most thieves is just some karma getting back our way. It is a war between both classes, & having the means to, were just fighting back. & kicking kitten . Were not the bad guys, …thieve are still the bad guys. Only difference, where kicking there nuts back, with interest.

It depends on the builds tbh.

Running the new fotm mesmer with PU, MI, decoy and torch and power lock/CS and blinding dissipation (bugged) then yeah it can be harder for other classes.

Running the good ole classic shatter from pre patch you’re still up against it big time, 3s stealth isn’t a lot to get away with if you need to buy time and only MI will help in that regard unless you use moa/timewarp. Even then it’s dubious if it would help.

When I play without PU I find survivability tanks quite a bit, especially for roaming.
If I drop CS at the same time it goes back to pre-patch days almost where mesmer has to really play their socks off not to get roflstomped by most classes pressing 2 buttons.

That’s without mentioning thieves have had a bit of a nerf too, not straight up but certainly a shave or two.

The problem is a lot of people want us to go back to pre patch days and that wasn’t a sustainable place to be. It wasn’t friendly to beginners, very unforgiving and had the build variety of a Model T Ford.

apharma.3741:

It depends on the builds tbh.

Running the new fotm mesmer with PU, MI, decoy and torch and power lock/CS and blinding dissipation (bugged) then yeah it can be harder for other classes.

Running the good ole classic shatter from pre patch you’re still up against it big time, 3s stealth isn’t a lot to get away with if you need to buy time and only MI will help in that regard unless you use moa/timewarp. Even then it’s dubious if it would help.

When I play without PU I find survivability tanks quite a bit, especially for roaming.
If I drop CS at the same time it goes back to pre-patch days almost where mesmer has to really play their socks off not to get roflstomped by most classes pressing 2 buttons.

That’s without mentioning thieves have had a bit of a nerf too, not straight up but certainly a shave or two.

The problem is a lot of people want us to go back to pre patch days and that wasn’t a sustainable place to be. It wasn’t friendly to beginners, very unforgiving and had the build variety of a Model T Ford.

But… The Model T came in any color to wanted. So long as it was black…
I think a lot of the issue, other than PU, CS, and blinds is that a lot and I mean a lot of new mesmers are running PU condi/power builds. And ANYTHING regarding stealth has always cased QQ from the forums. Mantra shatter? It’s sustainable yes, however, a lot of traits go into making it sustainable. There’s no shatter traits, just CS and PB and of those two CS needs a toning but that’s about it.
So.. Until Mesmer stops being FoTM and people finally adapt to the power creep we’ve had we’ll continue to get post like this and others saying burst to strong please nerf, etc.

stealth is crazy op in wvw and duels but they will not change it because it doesn’t work nearly as well in pvp.

You obviously haven’t fought a Good condi thief yet.
Right now that’s mesmer hard counter… and it’s pretty much a one sided fight. Stop roaming and go do some real dueling in OS for a bit.

Enjoy being overpowered buddy, this class is gonna get hit with a nerf bazooka soon.

Nephrite.6954:

Enjoy being overpowered buddy, this class is gonna get hit with a nerf bazooka soon.

And it deserves it more than the thieves nerf ever did

Kusa.6438:

You obviously haven’t fought a Good condi thief yet.
Right now that’s mesmer hard counter… and it’s pretty much a one sided fight. Stop roaming and go do some real dueling in OS for a bit.

Ah, about time someone mentioned condi thieves.

I have no idea what the current builds are for condi thieves but there are some extremely dangerous ones out there – much worse than pre patch p/d condi thieves.

I need to read up on it more, but I’ve been hit by some freakishly scary skill combos that seem so innocent in their animation and lead to me melting in seconds. Makes Mesmer condition play look weak in comparison.

Thieves are still in a good place
Condi thief got buffed a little bit with traps but other than that they are more if the same
Power thief got nice buff of dmg modifiers
Evade thief pretty much in the same spot

Thus it may seem Mesmer got huge buffed
Where actually they have needed them to be par with other classes

messiah.1908:

Thieves are still in a good place
Condi thief got buffed a little bit with traps but other than that they are more if the same
Power thief got nice buff of dmg modifiers
Evade thief pretty much in the same spot

Thus it may seem Mesmer got huge buffed
Where actually they have needed them to be par with other classes

Where did condi thiefs got buffed? They still do not have the most powerfull condi in the game right now, burning afaik? Condi thief is mostly bleeding/poison is it not?

aspirine.5839:

Where did condi thiefs got buffed? They still do not have the most powerfull condi in the game right now, burning afaik? Condi thief is mostly bleeding/poison is it not?

And then you’ve got Confusion and Torment with some sigil / rune work. If that doesn’t critically wound your target you flee or stall until your attacks are ready to go.

Also, they may have Burning if they face Engineers. ,_,

bhagwad.4281:

This is weird for me. For all of GW2 history, I have disliked thieves. As a mesmer player, they used to make my life miserable. The stealths really used to annoy me and I slowly learned ways and means to at least put up a fight before dying. Auto attacks, throwing up blocks when I expect a BS, running into their black powder to disrput stealth stacking, CC’ing the black powder area, running Mantra of Resolve to instantly clear blinds etc.

But despite all that, I hated thieves. I would single them out on my mesmer and try and take them down. And in all the youtube videos of mesmers fighting thieves, I was rooting for my class to take the thief down. To teach that stealthing little snit a lesson.

All that changed on June 23rd.

I realized this as I was watching a WvW video of a thief and mesmer dueling and to my shock, I found myself rooting for the thief! This has never happened before. And the reason is of course simple.

Now mesmers are the stealthing little snits abusing stealth and bursting…more than the thief ever did. When I saw the thief stealth, I could see the mesmer make some defensive moves – port around, throw up a block to anticipate the time of reveal, CC shadow refuge, CC black powder, run into the black powder field to prevent stealth stacking etc.

But when the mesmer stealthed, there was nothing the thief could do. Apart from Mass invis which has a CD, the other mesmer stealth skills were insta cast. And the mes used Mass invis just as the other stealth was ending – essentially free. I felt bad for the thief. And let me tell you, this has never happened before.

What really gets me is the identity crisis the PU builds have created for me. I used to be the class that could hold the moral high ground with stealth. Clones, porting, deception – was what I would use to fight. Honest deception in the sense that the opponent would be able to combat me fairly.

But this…this repeated camping in stealth for long periods of time and bursting down. That was behavior I despised in thieves. And now we do it!. It’s worse actually because it can be done from range with no counterplay to repeated stealth unlike the thief.

I remember a time before the patch where mesmer PU builds were considered essentially trolling. “Real mesmers” shunned the stealth camping and ran shatter. I never ran shatter myself, because that’s not my playstyle, but hey – shatter was legit. Now that PU has been buffed unimaginably, mesmers have suddenly flocked to this despised trait that was considered “trolly” even before!

And of course…CS. What was Anet thinking with that! Made even worse by MoD recharging in the background.

I never thought I would be saying this. But mesmers are the bad guys now. My class that was my very first character in GW2, the one I have played 80% of my games on, the class that I love to bits really…is the one on the wrong side of the debate here.

It’s an identity crisis. I can’t come to terms with the fact that I’m the cheap one!.

Kudos to those mesmers who don’t run PU and who don’t use the broken CS traits. You do our class proud. I know, I know…I’m in the minority here. It’s just that for all of GW2’s history, the mesmer was my identity.

And now my identity is relegated to “that cheap class”. And boy, does it sting!

Thanks a lot for speaking out the truth and what you think was right, i play DD and pre patch, no matter what class i played, if i got killed by any type of mesmer (well besides condi) I’d tell him gg or something like that, because i knew it took skill to pull of good burst with the mesmer, now it’s just a joke, i can handle PU mesmers if they play full zerk, but it’s still really hard, but condi i just unkillable, no matter what you do everything you can do as a thief is counterable, and the fact that our longest stealth SR is a big AOE kill me sign we have to stay in the whole time or else we become revealed is just a joke when looking at all the stealth insta cast skills of the mesmer.
The biggest problem for me is, the blind on shatter trait, combined with the fact, that illusionary persona is standard now (which is somewhat pathetic) it makes backstabing or CnD almost impossible. i don’t want mesmer to be nerfed to hell, just slightly adjusted

aspirine.5839:

messiah.1908:

Thieves are still in a good place
Condi thief got buffed a little bit with traps but other than that they are more if the same
Power thief got nice buff of dmg modifiers
Evade thief pretty much in the same spot

Thus it may seem Mesmer got huge buffed
Where actually they have needed them to be par with other classes

Where did condi thiefs got buffed? They still do not have the most powerfull condi in the game right now, burning afaik? Condi thief is mostly bleeding/poison is it not?

just shows you don’t play thief xD
yes the damage got buffed, but so did every other class’ damage
e.g. pre patch i had 2,2k power and 220% crit damage, my backstabs hit for 9-13k almost all the time
NOW i have 2,85k power, 250% crit damage and you can barely get over 9k xD
but yeah we are so strong
thief is somewhat the weakest class, it works when playing in a group, but 1v1 you always need to have more skill than the other player to even have a chance, 2 players on the same skill lv, thief dies instantly. done deal, If you ask ppl around, especially the good players will ALL say fighting a thief is a joke, no challange at all, if you think thief is so good, try him out and die, over and over again

DHawk.2687:

just shows you don’t play thief xD
yes the damage got buffed, but so did every other class’ damage
e.g. pre patch i had 2,2k power and 220% crit damage, my backstabs hit for 9-13k almost all the time
NOW i have 2,85k power, 250% crit damage and you can barely get over 9k xD
but yeah we are so strong
thief is somewhat the weakest class, it works when playing in a group, but 1v1 you always need to have more skill than the other player to even have a chance, 2 players on the same skill lv, thief dies instantly. done deal, If you ask ppl around, especially the good players will ALL say fighting a thief is a joke, no challange at all, if you think thief is so good, try him out and die, over and over again

Yeah it’s weird, I barely get over 9k BSs now but I have more power and crit, well in PvP. In PvE I get 20k BS and rediculous HS and C&D numbers. Maybe there’s a bug or something because I feel all the extra power in PvE but not WvW where I have massive stat inflation too.

I don’t agree with the last part though, generally I either win or get away. I guess if you count someone getting away as a win then yeah but I call it a draw if they come back after CD’s are up.

apharma.3741:

DHawk.2687:

just shows you don’t play thief xD
yes the damage got buffed, but so did every other class’ damage
e.g. pre patch i had 2,2k power and 220% crit damage, my backstabs hit for 9-13k almost all the time
NOW i have 2,85k power, 250% crit damage and you can barely get over 9k xD
but yeah we are so strong
thief is somewhat the weakest class, it works when playing in a group, but 1v1 you always need to have more skill than the other player to even have a chance, 2 players on the same skill lv, thief dies instantly. done deal, If you ask ppl around, especially the good players will ALL say fighting a thief is a joke, no challange at all, if you think thief is so good, try him out and die, over and over again

Yeah it’s weird, I barely get over 9k BSs now but I have more power and crit, well in PvP. In PvE I get 20k BS and rediculous HS and C&D numbers. Maybe there’s a bug or something because I feel all the extra power in PvE but not WvW where I have massive stat inflation too.

I don’t agree with the last part though, generally I either win or get away. I guess if you count someone getting away as a win then yeah but I call it a draw if they come back after CD’s are up.

So do I, but that doesn’t neccessarily mean the class is weak or strong, compared with every other class the thief got the least benefits out of the patch and compared with other classes the damage isn’t that high, the sustain is very low even with 20k hp, the only thing we have is stealth, as we did pre patch, so compared with every other class thief has been left out, a lot

aspirine.5839:

messiah.1908:

Thieves are still in a good place
Condi thief got buffed a little bit with traps but other than that they are more if the same
Power thief got nice buff of dmg modifiers
Evade thief pretty much in the same spot

Thus it may seem Mesmer got huge buffed
Where actually they have needed them to be par with other classes

Where did condi thiefs got buffed? They still do not have the most powerfull condi in the game right now, burning afaik? Condi thief is mostly bleeding/poison is it not?

because now we can take deadly art with our conditions proc which is huge if you burst it right

poison – 8 to 10 stacks – buff
bleed – 5-8 stacks – same
weakness – buff with trait line
cripple – same
torment – 6-8 stacks – minor buff with venom
confusion – 5 stacks – same
immobilize – buff
vulnerability – 5 stacks – same

it doesnt mean we are the stronger but we do got good condi cleanse when stealth
and if burning was here also it become overkill and OP

DHawk.2687:

The biggest problem for me is, the blind on shatter trait, combined with the fact, that illusionary persona is standard now (which is somewhat pathetic) it makes backstabing or CnD almost impossible. i don’t want mesmer to be nerfed to hell, just slightly adjusted

It’s ironic that you would have respect for mesmers that beat thieves before the June 23rd patch, yet you cant look at yourself in the mirror. There were so many things that favors thieves when it comes to 1 vs 1 against Mesmers (a GM trait as Power Block had no effect on thieves). Now post patch, Mesmers are stronger and possibly on equal footing with Thieves, and you want to ANet to “slightly” adjust so you can still have an edge. Maybe try to be like the old Mesmers facing thieves, get better so current Mesmers can “respect” you more.

Rome.7124:

Maybe try to be like the old Mesmers facing thieves, get better so current Mesmers can “respect” you more.

lol!

Thread over.

GG!

/bow

Rome.7124:

DHawk.2687:

The biggest problem for me is, the blind on shatter trait, combined with the fact, that illusionary persona is standard now (which is somewhat pathetic) it makes backstabing or CnD almost impossible. i don’t want mesmer to be nerfed to hell, just slightly adjusted

It’s ironic that you would have respect for mesmers that beat thieves before the June 23rd patch, yet you cant look at yourself in the mirror. There were so many things that favors thieves when it comes to 1 vs 1 against Mesmers (a GM trait as Power Block had no effect on thieves). Now post patch, Mesmers are stronger and possibly on equal footing with Thieves, and you want to ANet to “slightly” adjust so you can still have an edge. Maybe try to be like the old Mesmers facing thieves, get better so current Mesmers can “respect” you more.

mesmer and thief or not on the same footing, and I think there are enough post describing how op the mesmer is in it’s current state,
I tried to play a shatter mesmer pre patch, i was moderate at best, one a few fights but lost most of em, because it was hard,
i tried it post patch and cried because it was so patheticly easy, it was a joke.

So mesmers are basically a bunch of underdogs who actually LIKED to be beaten up by any random thief and being borderline useless? What is going on now is basically that people have to adjust to the changed rules, simple as that. Also what kind of mesmer is cheering for thieves? Ever?

They have it harder because a mesmer is not a free meal anymore? Oh my god, cry me a river.

I don’t get the point of this thread. I still don’t feel sorry for thieves and never will.

I don’t use PU, because I dislike the playstyle but that doesn’t change the fact that thief has been an OP class and one that HARD-countered power Mesmers for the entirety of this game’s invention until June 23rd. This is to be celebrated.

That being said, do not fear my fellow Mesmers. We’ll be nerfed back into the ground where other classes gain more with 50% less effort put into their builds.

MailMail.6534:

I don’t get the point of this thread. I still don’t feel sorry for thieves and never will.

I don’t use PU, because I dislike the playstyle but that doesn’t change the fact that thief has been an OP class and one that HARD-countered power Mesmers for the entirety of this game’s invention until June 23rd. This is to be celebrated.

That being said, do not fear my fellow Mesmers. We’ll be nerfed back into the ground where other classes gain more with 50% less effort put into their builds.

^thief hasn’t been OP for a long time, and in it’s current state the thief is just pathetic, why do you think so many ppl are leaving the thief to play mesmer or smth else, it’s not just about thief vs mesmer, thief in general was kittened with the patch

DHawk.2687:

MailMail.6534:

I don’t get the point of this thread. I still don’t feel sorry for thieves and never will.

I don’t use PU, because I dislike the playstyle but that doesn’t change the fact that thief has been an OP class and one that HARD-countered power Mesmers for the entirety of this game’s invention until June 23rd. This is to be celebrated.

That being said, do not fear my fellow Mesmers. We’ll be nerfed back into the ground where other classes gain more with 50% less effort put into their builds.

^thief hasn’t been OP for a long time, and in it’s current state the thief is just pathetic, why do you think so many ppl are leaving the thief to play mesmer or smth else, it’s not just about thief vs mesmer, thief in general was kittened with the patch

As mesmers, we felt the same way espacailly when it came fighting vs thieves. Difference we dint leave our main to play thieves. We stuck to it.

Vieux P.1238:

DHawk.2687:

MailMail.6534:

I don’t get the point of this thread. I still don’t feel sorry for thieves and never will.

I don’t use PU, because I dislike the playstyle but that doesn’t change the fact that thief has been an OP class and one that HARD-countered power Mesmers for the entirety of this game’s invention until June 23rd. This is to be celebrated.

That being said, do not fear my fellow Mesmers. We’ll be nerfed back into the ground where other classes gain more with 50% less effort put into their builds.

^thief hasn’t been OP for a long time, and in it’s current state the thief is just pathetic, why do you think so many ppl are leaving the thief to play mesmer or smth else, it’s not just about thief vs mesmer, thief in general was kittened with the patch

As mesmers, we felt the same way espacailly when it came fighting vs thieves. Difference we dint leave our main to play thieves. We stuck to it.

as I said before ( view post above ) it’s not just thief vs mesmer, thief is in a bad state no matter what he fights, was mesmer that way pre patch?
(serious question I didn’t play shatter mesmer for too long)

I can just attest that mesmers are utterly broken when it comes to WvWvW roaming.

Already 2 weeks ago I noticed that in fights of 5-10 enemy players mesmers made up half of the enemy force. I read my combat log a lot. Today I haven’t had any other enemy profession damage me, except mesmers + enemy siege golems. The ability to reset fights, chain stuns, do big burst from stealth, mobility with blink + traveler runes is good. Mesmers are right now more broken than thief ever was. When one profession comes as dominant as mesmers are right now, it takes away the diversity from the game.

How to fix this:

Mesmers has access to way too much stuns at moment: mantra of distraction + confounding suggestions (which should have 15 icd or have the stun part removed, it is way too powerful master trait). Signet of domination is over 4 second stun with this trait at 1200 range. Luckily very few mesmers use that signet.

Chaotic Interruption has way too much goodies packed into one trait: giving 2 second immobilize, 5 stacks of might, random boon and random condition. The immobilize part should be removed.

Blinding dissipation has no icd and great synergy with ineptitude, allowing blind spam at ease.

Harmonius mantras gives a stacking dmg bonus, which should be removed.

Mesmers have access to too long lasting stealth with Prismatic Understanding and ability to damage from stealth via their clones and phantasms, while NOT getting revealed. The +100% stealth increase from PU trait should be removed and reverted to +1 second.

Mesmers have access to much combat mobility: blink has mere 25 s traited CD and it is a stunbreak as well. Staff #2 has 10 icd random teleport. Not to mention portal, which can change the tide of an entire battle and probably the most powerful utility skill in the game. Yet I do not suggest nerfing portal.

Mesmer has tons of boon stripping, but I am really fine with that, because it fits the profession.

Deniara Devious.3948:

I can just attest that mesmers are utterly broken when it comes to WvWvW roaming.

Already 2 weeks ago I noticed that in fights of 5-10 enemy players mesmers made up half of the enemy force. I read my combat log a lot. Today I haven’t had any other enemy profession damage me, except mesmers + enemy siege golems. The ability to reset fights, chain stuns, do big burst from stealth, mobility with blink + traveler runes is good. Mesmers are right now more broken than thief ever was. When one profession comes as dominant as mesmers are right now, it takes away the diversity from the game.

How to fix this:

Mesmers has access to way too much stuns at moment: mantra of distraction + confounding suggestions (which should have 15 icd or have the stun part removed, it is way too powerful master trait). Signet of domination is a whopping kitten stun with this trait at 1200 range. Luckily very few mesmers use that signet.

Chaotic Interruption has way too much goodies packed into one trait: giving 2 second immobilize, 5 stacks of might, random boon and random condition. The immobilize part should be removed.

Blinding dissipation has no icd and great synergy with ineptitude, allowing blind spam at ease.

Harmonius mantras gives a stacking dmg bonus, which should be removed.

Mesmers have access to too long lasting stealth with Prismatic Understanding and ability to damage from stealth via their clones and phantasms, while NOT getting revealed. The +100% stealth increase from PU trait should be removed and reverted to +1 second.

Mesmers have access to much combat mobility: blink has mere 25 s traited CD and it is a stunbreak as well. Staff #2 has 10 icd random teleport. Not to mention portal, which can change the tide of an entire battle and probably the most powerful utility skill in the game. Yet I do not suggest nerfing portal.

Mesmer has tons of boon stripping, but I am really fine with that, because it fits the profession.

don’t say all that out load, soon the PU mesmers will come and flame you to death :O

DHawk.2687:

don’t say all that out load, soon the PU mesmers will come and flame you to death :O

I don’t care about that. I just want the class diversity back. Having almost all fights against just 1 profession and 2-3 different builds makes the game less fun for me.

I know thieves were a hard counter against power mesmers and other berserker classes for a long time. And D/P+SB thief is still strong. I have been for a long time (since 2012) telling how the stealth in this game is implemented badly and it should be limited to max 8 s duration and then 4 s revealed if the player still tries to stay stealthed. But something is wrong when big part of this P/D condi perplexity and D/P perma stealth thieves rerolled into a mesmer. Right mesmer is the cheese mode (together with elementalist + guardian, but that is another story).

Deniara Devious.3948:

DHawk.2687:

don’t say all that out load, soon the PU mesmers will come and flame you to death :O

I don’t care about that. I just want the class diversity back. Having almost all fights against just 1 profession and 2-3 different builds makes the game less fun for me.

I know thieves were a hard counter against power mesmers and other berserker classes for a long time. And D/P+SB thief is still strong. I have been for a long time (since 2012) telling how the stealth in this game is implemented badly and it should be limited to max 8 s duration and then 4 s revealed if the player still tries to stay stealthed. But something is wrong when big part of this P/D condi perplexity and D/P perma stealth thieves rerolled into a mesmer. Right mesmer is the cheese mode (together with elementalist + guardian, but that is another story).

guardian when playing condi i assume, right?

Deniara Devious.3948:

I can just attest that mesmers are utterly broken when it comes to WvWvW roaming.

Already 2 weeks ago I noticed that in fights of 5-10 enemy players mesmers made up half of the enemy force. I read my combat log a lot. Today I haven’t had any other enemy profession damage me, except mesmers + enemy siege golems. The ability to reset fights, chain stuns, do big burst from stealth, mobility with blink + traveler runes is good. Mesmers are right now more broken than thief ever was. When one profession comes as dominant as mesmers are right now, it takes away the diversity from the game.

How to fix this:

Mesmers has access to way too much stuns at moment: mantra of distraction + confounding suggestions (which should have 15 icd or have the stun part removed, it is way too powerful master trait). Signet of domination is a whopping kitten stun with this trait at 1200 range. Luckily very few mesmers use that signet.

Chaotic Interruption has way too much goodies packed into one trait: giving 2 second immobilize, 5 stacks of might, random boon and random condition. The immobilize part should be removed.

Blinding dissipation has no icd and great synergy with ineptitude, allowing blind spam at ease.

Harmonius mantras gives a stacking dmg bonus, which should be removed.

Mesmers have access to too long lasting stealth with Prismatic Understanding and ability to damage from stealth via their clones and phantasms, while NOT getting revealed. The +100% stealth increase from PU trait should be removed and reverted to +1 second.

Mesmers have access to much combat mobility: blink has mere 25 s traited CD and it is a stunbreak as well. Staff #2 has 10 icd random teleport. Not to mention portal, which can change the tide of an entire battle and probably the most powerful utility skill in the game. Yet I do not suggest nerfing portal.

Mesmer has tons of boon stripping, but I am really fine with that, because it fits the profession.

You are tottaly right!!!1
But class need slightly more adjusting.

Autoattacks:
Mesmes autos hit too hard or too fast. Gs aa should have only 1 hit (3 hits is OP). Sword AA inflict condi and remove boon on 3rd attack. No boon striping except trait.
Scepter AA is fine, mb make projectile little slower.

Mantras:
Of course no background recharging. Should have some cast time.

Stealth:
Any phantasm summon should reveal.

Armor and health:
Armor of mesmer class is low so it is ok. But mesmers should have lesser health pool for balance goal (now medium hp pool).

Have much more suggestions, but those above should be done ASAP!!!12

Really? As soon as mesmers get equal tools to one of the most silly pvp/wvw classes (thief), and they’re no longer the underdog, you start cheering for thieves of all classes? Get out of here, you class traitor.

tbh i dislike every condi build, well tanky condi that is

i just don’t understand why anet lets ppl dish out massive damage with condis and still tank so much dmg
it’s a joke imho

DHawk.2687:

MailMail.6534:

I don’t get the point of this thread. I still don’t feel sorry for thieves and never will.

I don’t use PU, because I dislike the playstyle but that doesn’t change the fact that thief has been an OP class and one that HARD-countered power Mesmers for the entirety of this game’s invention until June 23rd. This is to be celebrated.

That being said, do not fear my fellow Mesmers. We’ll be nerfed back into the ground where other classes gain more with 50% less effort put into their builds.

^thief hasn’t been OP for a long time, and in it’s current state the thief is just pathetic, why do you think so many ppl are leaving the thief to play mesmer or smth else, it’s not just about thief vs mesmer, thief in general was kittened with the patch

Thief hasn’t been OP since June 23rd. In it’s current state, I think at best it’s mid-tier. Having 2 thieves on a single team = auto loss based on my experiences. I agree that thieves got nerfed a lot in this recent patch. They’re totally replaceable with PU zerk Mesmer… However, condi thief is very underrated right now and might be the strongest spec currently.

MailMail.6534:

DHawk.2687:

MailMail.6534:

I don’t get the point of this thread. I still don’t feel sorry for thieves and never will.

I don’t use PU, because I dislike the playstyle but that doesn’t change the fact that thief has been an OP class and one that HARD-countered power Mesmers for the entirety of this game’s invention until June 23rd. This is to be celebrated.

That being said, do not fear my fellow Mesmers. We’ll be nerfed back into the ground where other classes gain more with 50% less effort put into their builds.

^thief hasn’t been OP for a long time, and in it’s current state the thief is just pathetic, why do you think so many ppl are leaving the thief to play mesmer or smth else, it’s not just about thief vs mesmer, thief in general was kittened with the patch

Thief hasn’t been OP since June 23rd. In it’s current state, I think at best it’s mid-tier. Having 2 thieves on a single team = auto loss based on my experiences. I agree that thieves got nerfed a lot in this recent patch. They’re totally replaceable with PU zerk Mesmer… However, condi thief is very underrated right now and might be the strongest spec currently.

As an aside, what is this condi thief build everyone’s referring to? Got a link to a build or video?

bhagwad.4281:

As an aside, what is this condi thief build everyone’s referring to? Got a link to a build or video?

Just based on my encounters and comparing how well their respective teams do during matches. Next time I encounter one, I’ll ask them about their build.

Mak.2657:

You are tottaly right!!!1
But class need slightly more adjusting.

Autoattacks:
Mesmes autos hit too hard or too fast. Gs aa should have only 1 hit (3 hits is OP). Sword AA inflict condi and remove boon on 3rd attack. No boon striping except trait.
Scepter AA is fine, mb make projectile little slower.

Mantras:
Of course no background recharging. Should have some cast time.

Stealth:
Any phantasm summon should reveal.

Armor and health:
Armor of mesmer class is low so it is ok. But mesmers should have lesser health pool for balance goal (now medium hp pool).

Have much more suggestions, but those above should be done ASAP!!!12

Ok you’re clearly clueless.

Mesmer auto attacks are half other professions. Seriously, get some friends to stand around in zerker gear, you on mesmer them on their others and call out the listed damage. All this shows is your utter and complete lack of thought and understanding of the game not to mention skill.

I mean seriously, you’re complaining about the weakest attack chain in the entire game.

That’s without mentioning mantras always have a cast time, it’s nearly 3s. Really, nearly 3 whole seconds of you running around with a giant circle above your head saying “interrupt me”!

apharma.3741:

Ok you’re clearly clueless.

#sarcasm

Mak.2657:

apharma.3741:

Ok you’re clearly clueless.

#sarcasm

At this point in time with all the QQ going on that looks like that sarcasm can be lost very easily

apharma.3741:

-snip-

Awesome, thanks for jumping on that with both feet.

Mak.2657:

apharma.3741:

Ok you’re clearly clueless.

#sarcasm

Ah my mistake, your uniform text should have clued me in on that, especially when everything else in your post has actually been said as proposals to nerf mesmer.

Yes we’re the cheap ones now, the opponents we fight may not have direct counters but they do have options of their own.

Mesmer’s burst can be quick, but not as ridiculously quick as thieves, it also takes a decent while to set up for a shatter burst after recently attempting one.

This means our opponents can wait patiently while we’re in stealth (their fingers on their blinks, breakstuns or invincibility while their other cooldowns also finish), to quickly dodge once they see a quick sign of incoming burst (like a mirrorblade projectile or CS stun) and then immediately instill pressure upon us while we’re revealed. (Forcing us to pop our distortion of blurred frenzy, or lock us down to force our blink)

Being a burst build means we lack attrition, if we always sit in stealth and lose our exchanges out of stealth, that means we’re loosing.

The other option is to just… run, unlikes thieves we can’t move much while we’re in stealth, we don’t have the shortbow shadow stepping and our blink is precious on a 22sec cooldown if traited. If they run we have to chase them and we won’t be able to efficiently burst, once we do get revealed we end up at their mercy with all their cooldowns back.

Phantom Master.9582:

Yes we’re the cheap ones now, the opponents we fight may not have direct counters but they do have options of their own.

Mesmer’s burst can be quick, but not as ridiculously quick as thieves, it also takes a decent while to set up for a shatter burst after recently attempting one.

This means our opponents can wait patiently while we’re in stealth (their fingers on their blinks, breakstuns or invincibility while their other cooldowns also finish), to quickly dodge once they see a quick sign of incoming burst (like a mirrorblade projectile or CS stun) and then immediately instill pressure upon us while we’re revealed. (Forcing us to pop our distortion of blurred frenzy, or lock us down to force our blink)

Being a burst build means we lack attrition, if we always sit in stealth and lose our exchanges out of stealth, that means we’re loosing.

The other option is to just… run, unlikes thieves we can’t move much while we’re in stealth, we don’t have the shortbow shadow stepping and our blink is precious on a 22sec cooldown if traited. If they run we have to chase them and we won’t be able to efficiently burst, once we do get revealed we end up at their mercy with all their cooldowns back.

There is no class that has enough stunbreaks to keep up with our six chained stuns with CS and background mantra recharge. Moreover, stun from stealth does not even cause reveal! And apart from that, where is the question of dodging when you’re stunned?

Stunbreaks, invulns etc are precious, few, and far between. They simply don’t keep up with the frequency of damage bursts and stuns available to mesmers post-patch.

And of course, our stealth has no counter. Stealth skills are insta cast and take no set up – unlike thieves where everyone knows ways to disrupt the famous BP+HS combo. And even if they can’t, they know where the thief is for a few seconds while they stack stealth.

Where is the setup for using “The Pledge”? Or “Decoy”? You can even chain Mass invis while your other stealth is about to run out and your opponent has no way of knowing.

Counterplay. The idea is to have counterplay. Thief stealth has counterplay. Mesmer stealth does not. Thief burst also has a lot more counterplay than mesmer burst – at least you know the thief has got to be close to you to Backstab. A mesmer can burst from distance. After stunning of course.

I don’t know what kind of thieves you’ve been fighting who don’t have a million different instant ways to get behind you to backstab.

Edit: As a Thief player myself stealth has very little counterplay. You forgot that the BP+HS combo blinds you with a projectile making landing CC extra difficult. And where’s the counterplay to our spammable teleports? Or instant get-out-of-any-trouble Shadowstep? There isn’t either. So….yeah.

And the counter to “Oh look he has Aegis and I’m blinded never mind I will just 1111111111111111”

Sunflowers.1729:

I don’t know what kind of thieves you’ve been fighting who don’t have a million different instant ways to get behind you to backstab.

Edit: As a Thief player myself stealth has very little counterplay. And where’s the counterplay to our spammable teleports? Or instant get-out-of-any-trouble Shadowstep? There isn’t either. So….yeah.

spamable teleports xD all together we have shortbow, which you don’t use in a fight to get behind the enemy, the Shadowstep, Steal, Infiltrators signet, Sword 2# which doesn’t really matter since sword is somewhat dead, and dp #3 which won’t help if you are stealthed
sounds like a lot but they all have a lot of cd/ini cost
a port is a port, none of them are counterable, ele has a port, necro kinda does, guard, mesmer, etc
big deal
but the fact that except for Mass Invis every stealth of the mesmer is insta cast, the only one the thief has is blinding powder. That gives the mesmer an unfair advantage for some ppl, since it is impossible to counter the instacast, unless you wildly predict it’s coming, which won’t work every time, as you might know

I’m not riding the Mesmer is so op train pls nerf, I’m just trying to point out that the teleport argument is irrelevant to the comparison of stealth

DHawk.2687:

Sunflowers.1729:

I don’t know what kind of thieves you’ve been fighting who don’t have a million different instant ways to get behind you to backstab.

Edit: As a Thief player myself stealth has very little counterplay. And where’s the counterplay to our spammable teleports? Or instant get-out-of-any-trouble Shadowstep? There isn’t either. So….yeah.

spamable teleports xD all together we have shortbow, which you don’t use in a fight to get behind the enemy, the Shadowstep, Steal, Infiltrators signet, Sword 2# which doesn’t really matter since sword is somewhat dead, and dp #3 which won’t help if you are stealthed
sounds like a lot but they all have a lot of cd/ini cost
a port is a port, none of them are counterable, ele has a port, necro kinda does, guard, mesmer, etc
big deal
but the fact that except for Mass Invis every stealth of the mesmer is insta cast, the only one the thief has is blinding powder. That gives the mesmer an unfair advantage for some ppl, since it is impossible to counter the instacast, unless you wildly predict it’s coming, which won’t work every time, as you might know

I’m not riding the Mesmer is so op train pls nerf, I’m just trying to point out that the teleport argument is irrelevant to the comparison of stealth

You can chain DP3 into backstab, from stealth. Just press 3>1

And anyway, Mesmer has 2 instant stealth skills, while Thief has 2 as well. Trait for stealth on steal, that’s a 20s CD instant stealth.

Sunflowers.1729:

DHawk.2687:

Sunflowers.1729:

I don’t know what kind of thieves you’ve been fighting who don’t have a million different instant ways to get behind you to backstab.

Edit: As a Thief player myself stealth has very little counterplay. And where’s the counterplay to our spammable teleports? Or instant get-out-of-any-trouble Shadowstep? There isn’t either. So….yeah.

spamable teleports xD all together we have shortbow, which you don’t use in a fight to get behind the enemy, the Shadowstep, Steal, Infiltrators signet, Sword 2# which doesn’t really matter since sword is somewhat dead, and dp #3 which won’t help if you are stealthed
sounds like a lot but they all have a lot of cd/ini cost
a port is a port, none of them are counterable, ele has a port, necro kinda does, guard, mesmer, etc
big deal
but the fact that except for Mass Invis every stealth of the mesmer is insta cast, the only one the thief has is blinding powder. That gives the mesmer an unfair advantage for some ppl, since it is impossible to counter the instacast, unless you wildly predict it’s coming, which won’t work every time, as you might know

I’m not riding the Mesmer is so op train pls nerf, I’m just trying to point out that the teleport argument is irrelevant to the comparison of stealth

DP3 doesn’t help you when stealthed? Shows how much you know.

You can chain DP3 into backstab, from stealth.

no kitten, but not every thief knows how to chain, the simple CnD F1 Backstab combo on DD is too hard for most of the thieves i know

but that, as i said before, isn’t the point of my post