Guild Wars 2

I’ve been playing Mesmer quite a bit lately and I can’t just figure out why alot of people elect to use the greatsword.

In PvE, where there is a lot of places where stacking provides the most optimal DPS, it is counter-intuitive to use the greatsword whose auto-attack gets stronger the further away you are from the enemy. Besides that, I don’t find it to be a particularly strong power weapon. I would much rather use Sword/Focus and maybe switch to something like Sword/Pistol most of the time. I mean it does have the knockback but the focus can do the job of pulling better and it seems like the iDuelist does better DPS than the zerker, I could be wrong though. I would only really use the Greatsword when melee isn’t really an option.

In WvW, I’m really not a huge fan of it either. I mean it does have good CC and the iBerserker can help chase down opponents, but it seems to me that it lacks a huge punch. The iBerserker is easily dodged, it is easy to tell when a Mesmer is going to use it, and second when it is spawned you do have a split second to dodge it right after as well. Even if it does hit, it doesn’t seem like it does alot of damage against people who aren’t glass cannons. It probably does around 2-3.5K against decently armored targets. The auto-attack doesn’t seem very strong either, although I understand it adds some pressure. But against tanky builds it is rather weak.

The knockback is OK, nothing to write home about, it has a 30 second cooldown. The #3 is OK, hard to land in 1v1 or small group action sometimes unless you CC the opponent. The #2 is OK, just a generic might giving skill which also summons a clone. I didn’t find the greatsword particularly effective against classes like Thieves, Guardians, Warriors, D/D eles and Melee Rangers, although it was alright against certain ranged builds.

I was just wondering why other people use Greatsword?

Just a preference. It’s like asking why some like bananas over apples.

Personally, as a Ranged option, I love Sceptre, though often I find it lacklustre over Staff or just full melee. Doesn’t stop me from using it.

I use it in raids cause it gives the best ranged damage and it suits perfectly when I’ve spent all melee stuff, and in zergs GS>Staff.

I use it when roaming cause I can be a lot aggressive with it pushing enemies when they’re low health, and it allows me to chase people who is running from.

In PvE, I only use it in open world and specific places in dungeons, like killing flame acolytes in CoF p1.

Because of all the “greatsword sucks” posts I have seen, I started off PVE leveling in open world without it.

And that was a mistake. I was starting to despair over that character, even though it was my second mesmer. The first one though, I leveled with greatsword/staff…

So I tried Greatsword again, and it works SO well in open world PVE compared to other options. Faster, easier, and safer than sword/focus or scepter/focus. Way faster than staff.

Someday I will learn the lesson that just because so-called experts post their opinions about builds/weapons/classes on the forums, doesn’t mean they apply to me and my situation. (Especially when their entire focus is geared toward speedclearing in an organized group, and they have forgotten that anything else exists — and I’m leveling and don’t even have trait points to speak of. Or the equivalent in other games.)

Because it deals reliable, consistent damage for any power build, as well as having range and chase capability.

Scepter is awful now for me in a power build
- auto attack is kitten, no matter which way you look at it
- since they added torment to the block and reduced its direct damage, and then recently the ferocity change, I don’t feel it hits hard enough in a power build – the single block doesn’t make up for that
- #3 is way to predictable and hard to land the entire channel against any skilled opponent. Again with ferocity change, the beam doesn’t hit as hard for power build anymore.

Staff is a great tool, but again lacks damage pressure in a power build
- auto is poor without elasticity and requires mid/close range for bounce
- #3 is just as easily missed as any other phantasm burst. At least izerker has aoe potential.
- #4 is mediocre
- #2 and #5 are two of the best skills we have access to, however again neither are putting in that dps pressure on an opponent.

Therefore assuming you take either staff or sword in one set, the only other suitable weapon available in the second set is the GS.
You could take staff and sword, with a decent damaging offhand – pistol, sword or focus (when they fix it), but as I prefer sword/torch, if I take staff I lose out on a lot of damage pressure and end up with longer fights.

GS also has iwave to counter shadow refuge – safe bet that most thieves you run into will pop this skill at some point in a fight.
Again you could take focus, but the 1s ICD on into the void is a shame. I think they should half that to 0.5s, then fix the warden and you’d be good to go.

When a second power MH is released (ie, MH pistol), I would likely run sw/t, p/f, but that’s not an option at the moment.

Jackums.3496:

It’s one of our better weapons for PvP (particularly WvW roaming) in a power build, simply because of its range and the chasing ability it offers.

If you’re running double one-handed weapons or a staff over a greatsword, your chasing ability and ranged damage will be essentially non-existent. You’re not going to be standing on your target 90% of the time and auto-attacking in PvP, so having that ranged capability is valuable. Though it ultimately depends on your opponent.

Like you said, it’s going to be less effective against something like a Thief, which is going to be all up in your face, bursting, and then stealthing. But against, say, an Engi with nades? You’ll be glad you brought it and aren’t getting melted at close range due to all the condi AoE. It’s also one of the better weapons against Rangers and other Mesmers.

Personally, I will switch out my greatsword for a staff in WvW (for roaming) depending on the profession(s) I’m facing. Just in terms of common builds I encounter;

Greatsword:
vs. Engineer
vs. Ranger
vs. Mesmer
vs. Necro

Staff:
vs. Guardian
vs. Warrior
vs. Thief
vs. Ele

The former professions are easier to kite and generally have some pretty powerful close-range AoE damage (grenades, shatters, marks, wells, weapon AoE skills, etc).

The latter tend to have higher mobility and can get in melee range very easily, and require you play more defensively in order to stay out of their path of damage.

This is, again, just a general categorization based on popular specs I find myself facing.

I find with thieves in particular, I prefer to be aggressive/offensive and try to burst them down as quickly as possible, or at least to very low health to put them on the back foot.

I find staff (with elasticity) easier against engis, necros, guardians and rangers for the most part, strange as that is.
And I prefer GS against warriors, thieves, mesmers and eles – simply because I want to apply high damage pressure and focus them as much as possible.

That may be biased by me using sword/torch in the other set most of the time, which has enough defensive options.

Well, numbers wise it has the 2nd highest burst we can have in a power build. Not to mention the massive range it has, along with semi reliable aoe damage. It’s just an all around good weapon for power builds. MH sword is still our best option for max dps, but GS gives us a lot more ranged options.

A shatter build with GS is devastating.

Mirror Blade with Illusion Elasticity is awesome sauce.

The problems with GS is

The #1 skill is not bad in its very narrow use case, just counter intuitive to almost all proper hunting configurations involving stacking (which is the majority).

The #3 skill, it’s just crap. Useless in pve, and nobody in pvp/wvw ever said “WATCH OUT FOR THAT MESMER HE WILL USE GS#3 ON YOU”

- It’s the only ranged pure power weapon.
- Aoe knockback (interrupt) if you run interrupt traits.
- excellent Might stacking capability (6 stacks every 6s traited, if all bounces hit)
- iZerker is potential AoE damage even though it is target locked.
- EOTM lulz

For PvE, it’s good for world boss fights and soloing. I’ll agree it has limited use in dungeons, but that’s only a small part of PvE.

Diego Vargas.3058:

The #3 skill, it’s just crap. Useless in pve, and nobody in pvp/wvw ever said “WATCH OUT FOR THAT MESMER HE WILL USE GS#3 ON YOU”

#3 is generally not great. However, for PvE remember that it’s AoE damage, with the short cast time I would dare say it’s actually a DPS boost in PvE, assuming you can stack mobs together in one spot. Not great for dungeons obviously.

In WvW, it’s nice to be able to strip swiftness from a runner with it. In PvP, boon stripping has much more merit since there is a lot less boon spam going on (2 people stacking at best most times). People like to beat on #3 because it doesn’t fit into a rotation. That doesn’t mean it’s crap, it’s just situational.

I really like the tiny cooldown on GS2 when traited. It’s also the only weapon that is HALF decent at tagging. In full zerker gear one auto attack is usually enough to tag anything and anybody. The cleave and aoe is unreliable if not laughable, but no one tags single targets better. iZerker is great for roaming too, really great.

WvW. DPS+AOE+utility+range. I’d argue it’s mesmers’ best overall wvw weapon.

On top of all this, in WvW, GS spawns its illusions at the target – meaning even in zerg fights, you can shatter them before they get destroyed (don’t have to run through all those red circles to get to the target). With a boon-ripping build, between mind stab and a boonripping shatter, you’re removing three boons in an AOE from a group. While not game changing, it helps (especially if one of those boons you rip is stability).

Agreeing with what has been said above I also believe it is a trend that has carried from PvP into WvW…into PvE. Melee Mesmer used to be viable but due to the class changes there is too many bruiser type builds that outsustain the melee Mesmer and due to our squishy armor we just get bursted down quite quickly. From this the use of Greatsword, despite its nerfs, emerged. In WvW it is extremely efficient due to the ability to kite more easily.

The auto attack is good, #2 is amazing, #3 is amazing, #4 is meh and #5 is amazing In a Player versus Player setting. Also some of the best Mesmers in the game used the staff/greatsword combo aka Sensotix, Helseth.

I personally use it for range pressure. Since I’m usually a glass cannon I can’t always be up in a players face with out reliable cool downs.

Staff imo is a better weapon and out plays a vaster majority (tho I’m not a fan of chaos armor) but GS I find it’s easier to out play your own hard counters with proper positioning.

Also since I’m shatter I like to throw my clones on demand.

But the range pressure is the biggest factor for me.

It can be devastating in a condition or hybrid build too. With decent precision, every hit of the auto attack has a chance to crit and every one of those crits has a chance to proc. With the Superior Sigil of Earth, you almost guaranteed to proc bleed once on every channel. With the Sharper Images trait, your clones and phantasms will proc bleed on EVERY crit. It’s ridiculous on the iBerzerker. With Superior Runes of Strength you can double up on the cooldowns for Mirror Blade and proceed to stack Might with the best of them. After the cast-time nerf to Into the Void, I can no longer effectively use it as an interrupt, even in pve, because it’s just too slow. Illusionary Wave, on the other had, is on time every time. Just pushing one person off a cliff is empowering enough. If you manage to catch five, you’ll feel so good, you might need a cigarette!

Above all else, I just love the way mesmers use greatswords. If telekinetically holding a oversized, melee-centric object between your hands wasn’t epic enough, having it delicately spin while firing a deathray that hits harder the further away your target is just screams kitten! AND IT NEVER GETS OLD!!!

To be honest, if it wasn’t for the greatsword, I’d probably main an elementalist and would be just as jaded as the rest of them because the class isn’t what I had in mind either.

When you have 25 power stacks plus the burning sigil it melts things effectively.

Crossplay.2067:

Above all else, I just love the way mesmers use greatswords. If telekinetically holding a oversized, melee-centric object between your hands wasn’t epic enough, having it delicately spin while firing a deathray that hits harder the further away your target is just screams kitten! AND IT NEVER GETS OLD!!!

Bookahs and their spinning swords…

Asura wield the greatsword with might and glory – thrusting it at our foes with the force of a thousand charging dolyaks.

I use it because I’ve made Twilight. Would be a waste not to use it!

GS works very well with Mantra build. The AoE is very effective for multiple targets on a flat surface.

1. Because my Role in my Team is Carry. I Carry my Team Victory. GS has so many good Offense option
2. Because it’s cool seeing a small girl wielding a big Greatsword
3. I like GS #5 to peel. It’s fast and reliable
4. I like GS #4 coz AOE and Criple

My favorite thing about the Greatsword is using Illusionary Wave to knock a thief out of Shadow Refuge.

That second where they stand there going, “Huh?” is priceless.

Until the last big update I’d never have used the GS in dungeons. Open world it’s definitly one of the best options, however if you are facing champions solo, the weapons are anyway “depending on situation”. Back to the dungeon GS:

The GS has become a much better weapon now imo. Since you now can trait into dominion without sacrificing more than you gain, you can trait – nope, not the GS – the signets. I use the rune of the strength, wich is extremly awesome with the GS and the signet of inspiration. Starting with GS 2, 4, 3, signet, 4, fillers, 2, swap (battle), share tons of long lasting buffs.

I do not say the GS is now a “allways use” weapon. I say the GS is dungeon viable now, even if it lacks with skill 1. However with rune of the strength you are able to keep up your own tons of buffs so the “you are not in buff range” argument starts to lack. The GS is the 2nd best option for aoe. Against multiple targets, I’d never use a single target phantasm. They just deal not enough damage. Many encounters end anyway before you have to reswap to GS for battle sigil buffs.

Against specific enemies you still have to swap weapons, like you ever did. The GS just reentered my viable weapon pool now. But I have to admit, in organized groups with permanently 25 stacks might, wich is rarely the case for me, I’d still stay on the sword in both mainhands.

Buffshare helpful + AoE = GS viable

GS is hands down best damage weapon if you play power build.

1. Range is huge, you can manage the range you get to hit people where they can’t fight back.

2. Zerker is hard to dodge if you cast him in stealth.

3. Push owns the Hut enough said.

4. Auto attack + fire sigil = farm mode in zerg v zerg.

People have very thoroughly addressed the PvP side. To address PvE – there really isn’t other than if you want to be lazy.

A GS obviously lets you sit way back at safe distance but still do enough DPS foir gold credit with minimal risk. So if you’re AFK training for champ loot, it does it’s job adequately.

If you’re in a fractal or dungeon team however you probably won’t be pulling your weight if you’re packing a GS because:

• Sword has higher DPS and cleaves. (It also has good evasion)
• Focus has excellent DPS, and packs good utility
• Offhand sword packs an extra defence move, and it has a fantastic phantasm for boss-DPS.
• GS1 requires you to stand out of might spread range, lowering your DPS even further compared to the guys in the thick of it.
• GS provides no support of note. So even the “But I’m support spec” excuse doesn’t fly

Obviously there are some bosses where melee is simply NOT an option, in which case GS is a good fallback, in the same way a ranger might fall back to using a longbow, but asides from those exceptions, GS isn’t really a weapon you should be seeing a mesmer sitting on. There’s a reason it’s colloquially referred to a “noobstick” by some circles)

1) It generates clones on a fairly low cooldown and the clones generated are pretty decent in terms of bleed rate, compared to scepter or staff clones. Pure bleed is bad for damage but it sure looks cool to have 10 stacks on bleed on something.

2) The beam makes a relatively big number per hit (since the channel takes ages), so it’s like you’re doing DPS even though you’re not!

3) Bads are scared of being anywhere less than 600 range of any mob. The “more damage the further you are” effect on GS makes it easier for them to justify hiding at 1200 range with “I’m contributing to damage!” even though they’re clearly not doing kitten.

It’s basically the mesmer’s bearbow, the fast turret generation and safe range makes it a natural choice if you’re just looking at the skills and not considering actual DPS. You can’t really blame them i guess, you’d normally gravitate towards the weapon that makes lots of small clones rather than one big one.

Thanks for illustrating exactly what I meant about “dungeon = everything” players.

Greatsword > sword in solo PVE. It has nothing to do with being fooled by pretty bleed stacks or flying numbers or being scared of melee.

Let’s say we both start 1200 units away from an enemy. At standard run speed, it will take you 2.85 seconds to close to 600 range so you can do an Illusionary Leap.

I have already hit the target with GS #1, GS #2 and GS #4.

What this 2.85 second advantage means:

— if sword does 10% more average DPS than GS, if GS can kill it in less than 31.5 seconds, it’s faster than sword.

— if sword does 25% more average DPS than GS, if GS can kill it in less than 14.25 seconds, that’s faster than a sword can.

— if sword does 50% more average DPS than GS, if GS can kill it in less than 8.5 seconds, it’s faster than sword.

Now of course this oversimplifies things, doesn’t consider swiftness and pretends that DPS is linear instead of varying with conditions/boons/phantasms, but hopefully you get the point. For a short fight, which most of the enemies you encounter during solo exploration are, GS wins.

Ryuujin.8236:

If you’re in a fractal or dungeon team however you probably won’t be pulling your weight if you’re packing a GS because:

• Sword has higher DPS and cleaves. (It also has good evasion)
• Focus has excellent DPS, and packs good utility
• Offhand sword packs an extra defence move, and it has a fantastic phantasm for boss-DPS.
• GS1 requires you to stand out of might spread range, lowering your DPS even further compared to the guys in the thick of it.
• GS provides no support of note. So even the “But I’m support spec” excuse doesn’t fly

Obviously there are some bosses where melee is simply NOT an option, in which case GS is a good fallback, in the same way a ranger might fall back to using a longbow, but asides from those exceptions, GS isn’t really a weapon you should be seeing a mesmer sitting on. There’s a reason it’s colloquially referred to a “noobstick” by some circles)

I would say that all is true, if this post would be 1 month old.

• Sword has higher DpS and cleaves.
• GS line dmg is harder to use.
• Focus has good burst and low dps against multiple targets
• GS has great dps and burst against multiple targets
• Offhand sword, pistol are both rather useless against multiple target
• GS1 is indeed rather weak and should be evaded. However “out of buff range” is a semi good argument. When you need aoe you just use the GS as opener. If you use it as range option against bosses, EVERYONE stays out of buff range and comes together when it’s time to buff (fotm). You rarely stick together in range battles.
• GS provides excellent support, removing significant boons immediately instead of waiting for 3rd auto, aswell granting tons of might with skill 2, especially with rune of strength aswell signet of inspiration when engaging first.

GS was a terrible dungeon weapon once. However wisely used you can use it for greater damage than the sword with a crappy single target offhand. A swordsman is pretty useless against 10 enemies at once. The weaker aa for a few times gets outdamaged by the stronger phantasm in such cases. There is allways the time for each weapon as a mesmer.

Xyonon.3987:

Ryuujin.8236:

If you’re in a fractal or dungeon team however you probably won’t be pulling your weight if you’re packing a GS because:

• Sword has higher DPS and cleaves. (It also has good evasion)
• Focus has excellent DPS, and packs good utility
• Offhand sword packs an extra defence move, and it has a fantastic phantasm for boss-DPS.
• GS1 requires you to stand out of might spread range, lowering your DPS even further compared to the guys in the thick of it.
• GS provides no support of note. So even the “But I’m support spec” excuse doesn’t fly

Obviously there are some bosses where melee is simply NOT an option, in which case GS is a good fallback, in the same way a ranger might fall back to using a longbow, but asides from those exceptions, GS isn’t really a weapon you should be seeing a mesmer sitting on. There’s a reason it’s colloquially referred to a “noobstick” by some circles)

I would say that all is true, if this post would be 1 month old.

• Sword has higher DpS and cleaves.
• GS line dmg is harder to use.
• Focus has good burst and low dps against multiple targets
• GS has great dps and burst against multiple targets
• Offhand sword, pistol are both rather useless against multiple target
• GS1 is indeed rather weak and should be evaded. However “out of buff range” is a semi good argument. When you need aoe you just use the GS as opener. If you use it as range option against bosses, EVERYONE stays out of buff range and comes together when it’s time to buff (fotm). You rarely stick together in range battles.
• GS provides excellent support, removing significant boons immediately instead of waiting for 3rd auto, aswell granting tons of might with skill 2, especially with rune of strength aswell signet of inspiration when engaging first.

GS was a terrible dungeon weapon once. However wisely used you can use it for greater damage than the sword with a crappy single target offhand. A swordsman is pretty useless against 10 enemies at once. The weaker aa for a few times gets outdamaged by the stronger phantasm in such cases. There is allways the time for each weapon as a mesmer.

Having a weapon just for clearing trash is a waste, considering that sword+focus gives you plenty of trash clearing potential and is good at bosses.

Using Illusionary Wave to knock a bunch of guys out of Shadow Refuge is just about one of the most satisfying things in the game.

Also, Mirror Blade + Illusionary Elasticity is just delicious.

maxinion.8396:

Having a weapon just for clearing trash is a waste, considering that sword+focus gives you plenty of trash clearing potential and is good at bosses.

So your argument is “I do not want to swap my weapons so I think S/F is better than S/F + GS against multiple enemies” …

Clearing trash is something almost any dungeon is about, aswell fotm. I do not want to count now, but swapping weapons to adapt to any situation isn’t something you should dismiss just because of lazyness. People buy stuff for much gold to be a bit stronger wich isn’t also “a waste”?

Trash mobs also often consists of multiple veterans and elites. I cannot see any “waste” here…

For me, GS excels at:

• WvW hunting. Good range, good damage, cripple.
• EotM / WvW cliff warfare. Knockback. Also works really well with interrupt builds.
• PvE world boss combat. Good range, ok damage, few conditions.

GS falters at:

• Dungeons. Terrible outside of a handful of bosses, you never want to stand that far away that it’d be useful. The Scepter is a better direct-damage weapon than the GS in dungeons, that’s just bad it is.
• WvW zergrunning. Can work (see interrupts above), but generally not defensive enough to be a good choice.

Xyonon.3987:

maxinion.8396:

Having a weapon just for clearing trash is a waste, considering that sword+focus gives you plenty of trash clearing potential and is good at bosses.

So your argument is “I do not want to swap my weapons so I think S/F is better than S/F + GS against multiple enemies” …

Clearing trash is something almost any dungeon is about, aswell fotm. I do not want to count now, but swapping weapons to adapt to any situation isn’t something you should dismiss just because of lazyness. People buy stuff for much gold to be a bit stronger wich isn’t also “a waste”?

Trash mobs also often consists of multiple veterans and elites. I cannot see any “waste” here…

When I can signet to put out two wardens, and then just melee with sword, and be just as effective as someone with greatsword… no, I don’t need to swap. The boon strip you point out might be mildly useful in Dredge to clear their proc, but an iDisenchanter probably does that better. Mainhand sword does boonstrip just as well anyway.
Offhand sword is plenty good at trash clearing too because of the group-stun, and the swordsman can be put on Elites or Vets to damage them while you attack trash.

Nothing changed with the patch except that Greatsword Training became more of a false target, since the meta builds contain 6 in domination now and lead people to think that Greatsword is more viable than before. Mesmer might stacking with Sigil of Strength is a waste of a Sigil, since might stacking is not your job. Anytime you swap to GS in a fight (after the opening seconds) is a DPS loss compared to sword, so it’s not worth it. Especially since with 6 points in Domination we are less reliant on Phants than before and more reliant on personal damage, losing time on the sword melee is a bigger loss than ever before.

GS isn’t the worst choice for range weapon in places where you can’t fully engage in melee, but the meta continues to be sword/sword and sword/focus for a reason.

I cannot approve anything you just said. You are looking at this way too specific. I don’t know wich encounters you got in your mind right now, but I think you keep forgetting that I also swap the GS out.

Since I do not play in perfectly organized groups where might stacks never fall under 20 stacks etc, yes – might stacking is something that is still worth the effort.

I do not confirm that putting 6 points into dominion is “meta”. I don’t know, but “meta” seems to be just the desire to trait for mantra damage and warden and modifiers over everything else. I also swap the traits and I also swap my skills ofc. I just mention it so you won’t come again with some “but in this situation” stuff.
There is allways the time and the place for empowered mantras, but imo it’s not the best option for a core build anymore. Aslong as I can buff my party with might via signets I have no space for more than 1 mantra wich makes the trait worthless compared to another 15% illusion dmg boost. 5/4/0/5/0 is definitly my core. I change if change is needed, but I will not go for EM if I just use 1 mantra…

This all leads to the reason to SOMETHMES take the GS. My GS uses the sigil of strength aswell battle, combined with rune of strength. If I lead the engage and can open long lasting aoe battles with 2,4,signet,4,3,filler,2,swap,share, it’s a great damage boost. At that moment, some bigger might buffs are running out slowly.

Sometimes I’d really like to see how other players play. I do not beleve everyone here that he’s allways in pts where everything works perfect and might aswell vuln are allways at 25 stacks and conditions are cleared in 0.1 sec etc etc etc.

greez

There is no arguing with people who already made up their mind. Most people do not understand range and position in combat . If you assign 0 value to the huge range GS has then yes GS sucks compare to other weapons if you fight in melee.

Mogar.9216:

There is no arguing with people who already made up their mind. Most people do not understand range and position in combat . If you assign 0 value to the huge range GS has then yes GS sucks compare to other weapons if you fight in melee.

Most people do understand range and position in combat. Party buffs almost always have a max of 600 range. Stacking in melee is a way of making sure everyone is in range of all those amazing buffs. GS range is important in PvP/WvW but it does have close to zero value for most people in dungeons. More so, it’s a really low relative value compared to the really high value of team buffs.

@Xyonon
Do you shatter as well then? So many people oppose it since it’s a “dps loss” but the trash scenario comes to mind again. If a single clone shatter does 5k aoe vs 5 targets and my auto attack does 2-4k vs 3, why would I not 3, F1 to clear trash. Or warden —> shatter. They will be dead before my phantasms even recharge their attacks.

One thing though, if you start with sigil of battle on GS and never swap back to it, sigil of battle is not the way to go. Sigil of force or fire maybe? I personally will prefer the sword offhand still for the aoe interrupt that doesn’t move my foes but I understand your use of it during those situations.

Foosnark.1784:

Thanks for illustrating exactly what I meant about “dungeon = everything” players.

Greatsword > sword in solo PVE. It has nothing to do with being fooled by pretty bleed stacks or flying numbers or being scared of melee.

Let’s say we both start 1200 units away from an enemy. At standard run speed, it will take you 2.85 seconds to close to 600 range so you can do an Illusionary Leap.

I have already hit the target with GS #1, GS #2 and GS #4.

What this 2.85 second advantage means:

— if sword does 10% more average DPS than GS, if GS can kill it in less than 31.5 seconds, it’s faster than sword.

— if sword does 25% more average DPS than GS, if GS can kill it in less than 14.25 seconds, that’s faster than a sword can.

— if sword does 50% more average DPS than GS, if GS can kill it in less than 8.5 seconds, it’s faster than sword.

Now of course this oversimplifies things, doesn’t consider swiftness and pretends that DPS is linear instead of varying with conditions/boons/phantasms, but hopefully you get the point. For a short fight, which most of the enemies you encounter during solo exploration are, GS wins.

You’re forgetting that sword offhand is also 1200 range, which means there is in fact no “head start” advantage on the GS. You could always take the GS for the opener but honestly the GS skills are so weak anyway you’re probably better off just taking a second offhand instead of wasting time summoning an iBeserrker that will deal no damage anyway.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You’re forgetting that sword offhand is also 1200 range, which means there is in fact no “head start” advantage on the GS. You could always take the GS for the opener but honestly the GS skills are so weak anyway you’re probably better off just taking a second offhand instead of wasting time summoning an iBeserrker that will deal no damage anyway.

How I love the GS hate. It’s ok if you don’t like the weapon for your own personal taste, but gives merit when it deserves. IMO, having sword in both main hand is crippling you in open PvE and WvW (Not talking about maximizing in Dungeons here, I agree that S/S, S/P or S/F is better in Dungeons)

Even if the sword offhand have 1200 range, the iSword will need to walk to be in range of the unit. The only real 1200 range you get from sword offhand is Counter Blade.

iZerker + Mirror Blade (with IE) + Shatter / Mind Stab, combination is devastating. There is no other weapon in mesmer that can do that kind of burst of damage while being comfortably in range. I feel that the GS is more about Mirror Blade than Spatial Surge, but I guess many people are scared or lazy to benefit of Mirror Blade bounce.

I find offhand sword more useful but in roaming and zergs GS has better utility even though I hate the gaudy way it’s used.

I don’t really like GS, but I still use it in spvp because of it’s massive ranged pressure. My another weapon is staff and if only ileap wasn’t so terribly unreliable, I’d change GS to dual swords. Currently however, I feel that I must too often burn blink just to compensate a failed ileap which is oh, so frustrating. So for now I just stick with the Helseth’s gs/staff build.

Triple-Swords \o/

Because style matters. No use dominating the world if you look lame.

Lets see for PvE:
case 1)
You can t stack easily with every party composition, so a ranged option is needed.
Gs also is one of the best illusion spammer available and in fractals, being able to get 3 illusions fast for distortion can save your life.

Case 2)
You summoned 3 iduelists, and the Boss isn t able to kill them due to the magnificent AI.
At that point you simply sit at range with autoattack (doing more dps than almost any other profession) because playing melee without any illusion generating skill, limits your options.

Case3)
You need AoEs.
SW-Focus/GS is the best option.

Case4)
You want a decent cripple uptime (see mossman for example)
Once again SW-Focus/GS

Case5) mobs have permareflect…
GS bypass reflect with each skill

WWW:
I don t use mesmer in WWW yet, but as a dps caster, the GS autoattack is the most annoying skill in the game.
No way to reflect it, and will do lot of damage from the distance.
I don t even care for the iBerserker, but GS1 is really strong to snipe casters.

@DuckDuckBOOM:
Yea I use shatter, but most of the time I open with by shattering my first clone with F3 for 5-8 stacks vuln, in the end I use F1. But to be honest I forget this too often ._.
Sigil of Battle is for enemies like the twins in fotm or any other “I really use the GS in combat” situations. Wall fractale, dredge, ascalon, there I often use the GS and swap back to it if the fight lasts long. I do not facetank warriors there, too risky, even with sword 2, F4 and block. However I also try to swap before going ooc in the end of a fight.
And btw – I think sigil of fire is one of the wors sigils the game offers. Really. It’s soooo terrible I once bought it to test it and salvaged the weapon right after it to sell it again. Nogo in Zerker builds imo.

@LordByron:
Pretty much what he said. Maybe not everything imo but he gets the point. There are situations for the GS, and it’s not a bad weapon. It’s like saying “Scepter sux cuz no aoe” … well … doing’ it wrong. However scepter against for example the first boss at wall fractale (when u enter) is extremly useful.

killahmayne.9518:

I’ve been playing Mesmer quite a bit lately and I can’t just figure out why alot of people elect to use the greatsword.

In PvE, where there is a lot of places where stacking provides the most optimal DPS, snip

See, I didn’t even have to read beyond this point. Like many, I play the game for fun and pick the weapon set that I enjoy the most. If I wanted to optimize my build, I’d go PU to troll in WvW like every other Meta chaser does. Instead, I pick what I like and work it for all it’s worth. Though it’s still a ranged weapon and I swap to S/F when stacking. Now if only the IWarden would reflect all inbound projectiles as it should!

btw… GS Auto does extreme range, pierces, and is not reflectable. So it has uses in getting enemies stuck in combat.

You can t stack easily with every party composition, so a ranged option is needed.
Gs also is one of the best illusion spammer available and in fractals, being able to get 3 illusions fast for distortion can save your life.

I have pugged every dungeon and I don’t even own a greatsword on my mesmer. It is not “needed” at all.

EDIT – I got an exo one and stuck a sunrise skin on it – i’ve only ever used it to pull Tazza in SE p1

You summoned 3 iduelists, and the Boss isn t able to kill them due to the magnificent AI.
At that point you simply sit at range with autoattack (doing more dps than almost any other profession) because playing melee without any illusion generating skill, limits your options.

Or you get triple duelist/swordsman and 1-1-1 away with your sword because it deals 40% more damage than greatsword.

???

You need AoEs.
SW-Focus/GS is the best option.

sw/f + signet of the ether

You want a decent cripple uptime (see mossman for example)
Once again SW-Focus/GS

temporal curtain, i-leap

also, allows you to not be stuck on a low DPS weapon for 10 seconds

Case5) mobs have permareflect…
GS bypass reflect with each skill

i heard melee weapons bypass reflect too

Wall fractale, dredge, ascalon, there I often use the GS and swap back to it if the fight lasts long.

Why would you use a not-sword/focus in an extremely reflect heavy fractal like dredge? And why would you not melee in ascalon when you’re LoSing groups of mobs all the time?

Pretty much what he said. Maybe not everything imo but he gets the point. There are situations for the GS, and it’s not a bad weapon. It’s like saying “Scepter sux cuz no aoe” … well … doing’ it wrong. However scepter against for example the first boss at wall fractale (when u enter) is extremly useful.

wall fractal?

It’s almost as if we’re reverting to our pre-enlightenment days. Maybe I need to smite the subforum with holy justice once more.

LordByron.8369:

Lets see for PvE:
case 1)
You can t stack easily with every party composition, so a ranged option is needed.
Gs also is one of the best illusion spammer available and in fractals, being able to get 3 illusions fast for distortion can save your life.

Case 2)
You summoned 3 iduelists, and the Boss isn t able to kill them due to the magnificent AI.
At that point you simply sit at range with autoattack (doing more dps than almost any other profession) because playing melee without any illusion generating skill, limits your options.

Case3)
You need AoEs.
SW-Focus/GS is the best option.

Case4)
You want a decent cripple uptime (see mossman for example)
Once again SW-Focus/GS

Case5) mobs have permareflect…
GS bypass reflect with each skill

WWW:
I don t use mesmer in WWW yet, but as a dps caster, the GS autoattack is the most annoying skill in the game.
No way to reflect it, and will do lot of damage from the distance.
I don t even care for the iBerserker, but GS1 is really strong to snipe casters.

Case 1: Learn to solo melee.

Case 2: Summon 3 phantasms then melee.

Case 3: Sword cleave.

Case 4: Get an engineer.

Case 5: Melee.

Some people just like to play a caster class as a ranged character. While I personally don’t mind (I like to optimize my build depending on what I am doing), I know people that only play ranged.

In the end, only few players ever come to the forums and fewer care about any meta or “best dps” builds.
They play because it is fun, and if they have fun playing ranged, they a) either continue playing ranged or if ranged is no longer viable b) stop playing.

As far as I know this game wasn’t sold as MMMORPG (the extra M is for melee). Min-maxers gonna min-max, haters gonna hate, most people don’t give a kitten on what other people think as long as they enjoy what they do.

There is really not any more to that topic. People will do what they enjoy.

OP may not have phrased it as such but I think he was asking if there’s any OBJECTIVE reason to run GS over sword, beyond “I like the pretty butterflies”.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Some people just like to play a caster class as a ranged character. While I personally don’t mind (I like to optimize my build depending on what I am doing), I know people that only play ranged.

In the end, only few players ever come to the forums and fewer care about any meta or “best dps” builds.
They play because it is fun, and if they have fun playing ranged, they a) either continue playing ranged or if ranged is no longer viable b) stop playing.

As far as I know this game wasn’t sold as MMMORPG (the extra M is for melee). Min-maxers gonna min-max, haters gonna hate, most people don’t give a kitten on what other people think as long as they enjoy what they do.

There is really not any more to that topic. People will do what they enjoy.

The OP is looking for practical reasons, not “play how you want” reasons.

The conflict arises where people try to claim it’s an objectively good weapon, and not just “I like lasers”.

It is objectively the best weapon if you do not want to play melee.