Guild Wars 2

Real talk why is it that continuum split will reset any skill (utilities, elites, heals) but completely ignore mantras and mantra charges? This inconsistency has been bugging me for a while, and was wondering if maybe a dev or somebody could shed some light on it.

Because when they were coding CS, the spaghetti code made it difficult for them to figure out how to make mantras work with it. Since basically nobody uses mantras, they figured it was easier to ignore it than actually fix it.

They weren’t wrong. I’ve seen maybe 3 complaints about this since HoT launched.

True, but I don’t think it’s because people didn’t notice and rolled their eyes at Anet about it, but simply the fact that our expectations regarding Mantras are so low, that we simply were not surprised that they forgot about them.

I mean I’d like to think it’s because it would make Mantras woefully OPd and was intentionally left out, but I’d have to expel my drink through my nose in laughter at the mere thought of someone believing that.

Not quite everything resets when CS ends. Boons and Condis don’t revert to where they were and neither do effects. I think that mantras are coded in such a way that when you channel it you get an effect that gives you access to a certain number of charges of a different skill (which makes sense considering we can trait for an extra charge), in which case it makes sense that effect doesn’t reset when CS ends since the other ones don’t either.

Right. The spaghetti code comes in because the desired behaviour would be that CS resets the little effect that tracks the number of available charges for each Mantra, but it may not necessarily be easy to save just the effects related to Mantra charges but not other effects like, say, Blur/Stealth or trait effects like Fencer’s Finesse. Or at least not easy to do without incurring performance penalties or creating the potential for a ton of really annoying bugs.

Fay.2357:

Since basically nobody uses mantras, they figured it was easier to ignore it than actually fix it.

They weren’t wrong. I’ve seen maybe 3 complaints about this since HoT launched.

“Basically nobody”? I roam & small-group as a mesmer in WvW pretty much daily and I’ve seen quite a few other mesmers there that run mantras.

The # of complainers on the forums isn’t exactly the best metric to determine how many people use a skill type. Most players probably just accept the functionality for what it is. Complainers only really come out in numbers if something feels really broken.

Magolith.9412:

Fay.2357:

Since basically nobody uses mantras, they figured it was easier to ignore it than actually fix it.

They weren’t wrong. I’ve seen maybe 3 complaints about this since HoT launched.

“Basically nobody”? I roam & small-group as a mesmer in WvW pretty much daily and I’ve seen quite a few other mesmers there that run mantras.

The # of complainers on the forums isn’t exactly the best metric to determine how many people use a skill type. Most players probably just accept the functionality for what it is. Complainers only really come out in numbers if something feels really broken.

Mantras are non-meta/suboptimal in:

All standard PvE builds
All standard PvP builds
Most standard WvW roaming builds
Most standard WvW group builds

Yeah, I’m sure you see some mesmers running around with a bar full of mantras, but to people that know the class, that’s essentially a big target over their head saying ‘inexperienced/bad player here , kill me first!’

Actually you do see plenty of people with pain/distraction mantras and torch/stealths in WvW for highest possible burst, which is easily achieveable with WvW stats. Some may even go core vanilla mesmer to achieve that damage spike. The synergy between stealth and kite in WvW terrain kind of allowed mantra casting.

Usually people will run in small groups including a druid etc, and they can be very difficult to fight if experienced and coordinate well (kinda like the old mesmer/healway guard combo). Ofc every experienced roaming group will target the mesmer first.

Very occasionally you see those mesmers in unranked PvP but it is quite rare to see them in ranked.

Fay.2357:

Yeah, I’m sure you see some mesmers running around with a bar full of mantras, but to people that know the class, that’s essentially a big target over their head saying ‘inexperienced/bad player here , kill me first!’

I don’t remember seeing a single mesmer in WvW over the past few years running a full bar of mantras. Quit exaggerating.

I personally run MoR + MoP most of the time if I’m running with a small-group, and I’m far from an inexperienced/bad player. The fact that they aren’t affected by CS is just a non-issue for me. They work well enough as is.

Fay.2357:

Magolith.9412:

Fay.2357:

Since basically nobody uses mantras, they figured it was easier to ignore it than actually fix it.

They weren’t wrong. I’ve seen maybe 3 complaints about this since HoT launched.

“Basically nobody”? I roam & small-group as a mesmer in WvW pretty much daily and I’ve seen quite a few other mesmers there that run mantras.

The # of complainers on the forums isn’t exactly the best metric to determine how many people use a skill type. Most players probably just accept the functionality for what it is. Complainers only really come out in numbers if something feels really broken.

Mantras are non-meta/suboptimal in:

All standard PvE builds
All standard PvP builds
Most standard WvW roaming builds
Most standard WvW group builds

Yeah, I’m sure you see some mesmers running around with a bar full of mantras, but to people that know the class, that’s essentially a big target over their head saying ‘inexperienced/bad player here , kill me first!’

A full bar of mantras yes not the best idea but 1 or 2 are sub optimal in pvp/wvw? Are you forgetting the Condi clear for the cancer or the interrupt that they provide to shatter mesmer damage?
Most mesmer I encounter have at least 1 unless they are the boon bot zerg type.

Yes for some reason you loose mantra charges in cs even when you use mantra only once in cs you come out and have no charges

Napo.1230:

Fay.2357:

Magolith.9412:

Fay.2357:

Since basically nobody uses mantras, they figured it was easier to ignore it than actually fix it.

They weren’t wrong. I’ve seen maybe 3 complaints about this since HoT launched.

“Basically nobody”? I roam & small-group as a mesmer in WvW pretty much daily and I’ve seen quite a few other mesmers there that run mantras.

The # of complainers on the forums isn’t exactly the best metric to determine how many people use a skill type. Most players probably just accept the functionality for what it is. Complainers only really come out in numbers if something feels really broken.

Mantras are non-meta/suboptimal in:

All standard PvE builds
All standard PvP builds
Most standard WvW roaming builds
Most standard WvW group builds

Yeah, I’m sure you see some mesmers running around with a bar full of mantras, but to people that know the class, that’s essentially a big target over their head saying ‘inexperienced/bad player here , kill me first!’

A full bar of mantras yes not the best idea but 1 or 2 are sub optimal in pvp/wvw? Are you forgetting the Condi clear for the cancer or the interrupt that they provide to shatter mesmer damage?
Most mesmer I encounter have at least 1 unless they are the boon bot zerg type.

One mantra is a semi-common and reasonable choice; usually cleanse or daze. 2 mantras…that’s pushing it. More than 2 and you’ve gone off the deep end.

Windwalker.7421:

True, but I don’t think it’s because people didn’t notice and rolled their eyes at Anet about it, but simply the fact that our expectations regarding Mantras are so low, that we simply were not surprised that they forgot about them.

I won’t lie I was a little bummed by it. It was actually one of the first things I tested, but when I saw that it didn’t work I just kinda went “welp”. Not sure why I haven’t posted about this till now tbh.

OriOri.8724:

Not quite everything resets when CS ends. Boons and Condis don’t revert to where they were and neither do effects. I think that mantras are coded in such a way that when you channel it you get an effect that gives you access to a certain number of charges of a different skill (which makes sense considering we can trait for an extra charge), in which case it makes sense that effect doesn’t reset when CS ends since the other ones don’t either.

This is probably it. Mantra charges are treated as boons and therefore are ignored by CS. The fact that they don’t interact with CS still irks me though. xD

I think CS could possibly cover for one of mantras biggest weakness being having to recharge. Although I guess having access to quickness does cover for it a bit.

Resolve got a CD reduction and it was already quit nice for solo play in W3. I’ve always disliked mantras. I’d love to see them replaced with standard style utility skills.

SteepledHat.1345:

Resolve got a CD reduction and it was already quit nice for solo play in W3. I’ve always disliked mantras. I’d love to see them replaced with standard style utility skills.

What would you suggest? I think the concept of mantras is kind of neat. There isn’t really a skill type that has a similar style of play. So I like how unique they are I suppose.

joshmossas.6542:

Windwalker.7421:

True, but I don’t think it’s because people didn’t notice and rolled their eyes at Anet about it, but simply the fact that our expectations regarding Mantras are so low, that we simply were not surprised that they forgot about them.

I won’t lie I was a little bummed by it. It was actually one of the first things I tested, but when I saw that it didn’t work I just kinda went “welp”. Not sure why I haven’t posted about this till now tbh.

OriOri.8724:

Not quite everything resets when CS ends. Boons and Condis don’t revert to where they were and neither do effects. I think that mantras are coded in such a way that when you channel it you get an effect that gives you access to a certain number of charges of a different skill (which makes sense considering we can trait for an extra charge), in which case it makes sense that effect doesn’t reset when CS ends since the other ones don’t either.

This is probably it. Mantra charges are treated as boons and therefore are ignored by CS. The fact that they don’t interact with CS still irks me though. xD

I think CS could possibly cover for one of mantras biggest weakness being having to recharge. Although I guess having access to quickness does cover for it a bit.

I actually prefer having CS not affect with mantras. Mantras are a core mesmer skill line, they shouldn’t require chronomancer’s CS to be viable (and even if they did work with it I don’t think they would be viable).

Really they need to have their channel times decreased significantly (at least 30% across the board, possibly in exchange for longer CD) and just have their effects enhanced, as currently they are underwhelming. For the following assume that you are running harmonious mantras for the extra stack.

MoRecovery – Bursting all 3 charges as quickly as you can still only yields 7860 healing, spread out over 3 seconds. If you are focused under a heavy burst you won’t make it to the third heal anyway. But with the large cast time this is pretty much only really effective if you are also running restorative mantras for a crap load of extra condi cleanse.

MoP – Just doesn’t deal nearly enough damage to be useful in a situation over something else with more utility like feedback, nullfield, veil etc… Would be nicer if the damage was buffed, the AoE range was increased (but subsequently deals less damage on indirect targets) and the charge time was reduced

MoC – 25 sec CD with 2.75 sec charge time to break a stun and grant stability. Or you could take something like mirror images which also breaks stuns and gives you shatter feed to get a one up on your opponent when you need it. Just underwhelming as a skill

MoD – This one is actually in a good spot with lockdown builds and power bursts. But outside of those builds its not that useful. Again a pretty underwhelming skill to me.

MoResolve – total or 6 condis cleansed by burning through all 3 charges and its on a 15 sec CD. So with the cast time and the CD of power cleanse that’s 6 condis cleansed every ~20 seconds. Which is actually really strong, except for the fact that it leaves you completely vulnerable for almost 3 seconds each fight while you have to charge it again, and you’re kittened if they bait it and then interrupt it. Especially now that it was changed, phantasmal disenchanter is just a much better choice for condi cleanse.

Just overall mantras are underwhelming except for MoD. And even then its really only used in 1 build

OriOri.8724:

I actually prefer having CS not affect with mantras. Mantras are a core mesmer skill line, they shouldn’t require chronomancer’s CS to be viable (and even if they did work with it I don’t think they would be viable).

I disagree with your reasoning for why mantras shouldn’t work with CS. CS interacts with every other skill line so why not mantras? I do agree that it probably wouldn’t make it viable, and that would be because of your second point.

OriOri.8724:

Just overall mantras are underwhelming except for MoD. And even then its really only used in 1 build

Yea this pretty much. Only build mantras actually work well with is lockdown burst and that those builds aren’t even viable. Basically all mantra viability is tied to a single build. It’d be nice if mantras were worth taking in general so they could see more usage.

I don’t think Mantra of Distraction should be buffed though (aside from possibly a mantra-wide recharge time reduction) since it’s already pretty strong how it is.

joshmossas.6542:

SteepledHat.1345:

Resolve got a CD reduction and it was already quit nice for solo play in W3. I’ve always disliked mantras. I’d love to see them replaced with standard style utility skills.

What would you suggest? I think the concept of mantras is kind of neat. There isn’t really a skill type that has a similar style of play. So I like how unique they are I suppose.

Personally…. I’d like to see them replaced with misdirection type skills that focus on CC. Maybe one that binds and stuns. One that pulls. One that chills and slows. Etc.