Why no condi shatter?
I will still be running 4/4/0/0/6 maim condi shatter with or without any of these changes. Changes which I imagine wont really happen anyway based on anets history. If something changes awesome but if not meh im still gunna play mez.
I think people, particularly opponent, simply hate PU because of its play style. Stealth, boons and heavier AI dependency of PU gameplay are usually the reasons why people think they lose to lower skill leveled opponents. But I won’t really get into PU skill floor/ceiling discussion.
Condition or not, shatter builds are dependent on bursts. This gives your opponent greater chance to dodge/evade your primary source of damage and your burst comes in waves with less punishing gaps in between. Charging AI in shatter suffers the same large choreography as old iLeap; close range shatter means mesmer positioned himself in a more dangerous way (and some opponents respect this high risk gameplay); fast shatter that your opponent can’t react to also mean, in a way, you outplayed him. So shatter build usually isn’t being flamed on. Of course you don’t have to shatter that much, but imo it makes this GM trait more optional though.
I’ll definitely try out different forms of Miam build after the patch, but I’ve sold my torment rune because its condition duration bonus is too narrow and heal proc isn’t too useful.
the past two weeks i have try several build of condi shatter and also tried to consider scepter AA in the fight
my main problem kittenter as i had rarely the chance to do full rotations with the scepter to create clones while the shatter abilities alone enable me to do nice dmg and pressure to not heavy condi cleanse spec
also if i manage to create clonse i wanted to shatter then thus they dont have much chance to do torment dmg
so why yes to shatter condi?
1. new idea to play with
2. new form and tactic playstyle
3. its so nice to see 10 stack confusion and torment alongside ticking
why not shatter condi?
1. same as pu idea most ppl will be able to run away from you
2. with no boon when sealth you’ll be much easier to chase and burst especially by d/p thieves
3. still low contribute to a group fight
thus my main conclusion the scepter AA was given the scepter mesmer to use in group fight and not while roaming
I’d almost say the scepter AA changes wouldn’t be that big a deal for condi shatter, rather IE and the 50% duration increase to MtD. In sPvP I’m not sure what kind of duration you can get, but say in wvw with food and a sigil you could easily get +50% condition duration, without any torment runes, and then the torment from the new MtD would be 9 seconds. 9 sec of torment with each shatter hit sounds pretty good, even without the scepter. In sPvP depending on runes, even if you got up to 30% duration your torments from Maim would be (just about) 8 seconds. That seems pretty good, and the IE change plus being not glass would seem to allow good kiting with sustained dmg in between condi bursts.
Another nice thing about the duration buff to MtD is that both unlike standard shatter you don’t just have mind wrack for burst. So you can easily get a 3 clone MW followed by a 3 clone cry or even diversion, and with the buffed duration there will overlap and the opponent will have 6 stacks of torment ticking, not to mention confusion and everything else. Granted they can cleanse it, but if you stagger with the scepter block it seems pretty hard to completely counter the build just with cleanses. Maybe I’m wrong because you’ll never land two back to back full shatters?
Or do people think the 50% duration buff to MtD (4 sec to 6 sec) doesn’t change anything really? I remember before the conclusion of some testing in another thread was that maim just wasn’t viable.
(edited by MSFone.3026)
Or do people think the 50% duration buff to MtD (4 sec to 6 sec) doesn’t change anything really? I remember before the conclusion of some testing in another thread was that maim just wasn’t viable.
This is accurate. It was the wrong change. The problem with MtD is that it’s not a bursty skill (trait), but it’s locked into an inherently bursty playstyle: shatters. Since that mismatch exists, it causes the whole build to just not work together properly. You’re playing bursty, trying to coordinate and land bursts…but then your “burst” can be completely annulled by a quick condition removal, or even someone standing still.
The change it needed was to drastically boost the stacks it applied, while reducing the duration a little bit to compensate. This allows you to actually burst with it, in the way that shatters have to be, instead of using a burst mechanic to apply sustained damage.
Or do people think the 50% duration buff to MtD (4 sec to 6 sec) doesn’t change anything really? I remember before the conclusion of some testing in another thread was that maim just wasn’t viable.
This is accurate. It was the wrong change. The problem with MtD is that it’s not a bursty skill (trait), but it’s locked into an inherently bursty playstyle: shatters. Since that mismatch exists, it causes the whole build to just not work together properly. You’re playing bursty, trying to coordinate and land bursts…but then your “burst” can be completely annulled by a quick condition removal, or even someone standing still.
The change it needed was to drastically boost the stacks it applied, while reducing the duration a little bit to compensate. This allows you to actually burst with it, in the way that shatters have to be, instead of using a burst mechanic to apply sustained damage.
This makes intuitive sense. Bummer lol, guess it’s still PU for me when I go condi :-/
Just made a hybrid shatter build that maybe suited to your taste, but heavily depended on stats combination in WvW though.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW8flknpRtdqxINcrNCrBh6rslfSyBEgSmhrB-TVyDABwo+jpKBNe/BivAAAY+TIlfeobIgDCAEPBASBAxuK-w
So with bloodlust stacks and mental torment, you can deliver decent power damage in your mind wrack combo. I like carrion gear + exuberance (PvE/WvW only) because of extra vitality while covering power and precision, but you can also change that with Chrysocola orb for more condition/less vitality. The lingering torment and confusion can probably fix that power deficiency.
I’m also torn between scepter and sword but I realized its incredibly hard to land shatter without immobilize. But staff burn will benefit a lot after the patch.
I’m really bad at math so I’ll do some rough work on condition, assuming your opponent though you’re power shatter and snare at condition removal:
Torment
6s x 1.8 = 10.8s
10.8s x 135 damage/s = 1458 total damage per clone over 10.8s
Confusion is calculated by 136 damage/skill use
so assuming fast attackers use skill per 1/2s and slow ones use skill per 1s
Fast: (7.25 / 0.5) * 136 = 1972 total damage per clone over 7.25s
Slow: 7.25 * 136 = 986 total damage per clone over 7.25s
x3 if all illusion hit. And also consider the possibilities of Cry of frustration and diversion.
Now I have no idea how to calculate mind wrack + blurred frenzy damage, if anyone want to compare the damage in this build with standard zerker shatter that would be great. No conclusion can be drawn, but I think if your opponent left out the conditions then maybe, just maybe, this build can deliver slightly more damage than standard shatter over time.
Mtd should use smartly or you lose it effectiveness if your enemy cleanse
start with staff to harass than switch to scepter to block than your enemy will use cleanse which is the right time to shatter away and win
because.. most people that play pu are just not good enough to not play without pu.. they will do everything they can to stay in stealth as much as they can manage to avoid fighitng. people that rely on pu to play will literally cut their damage in half to have pu,.
because.. most people that play pu are just not good enough to not play without pu.. they will do everything they can to stay in stealth as much as they can manage to avoid fighitng. people that rely on pu to play will literally cut their damage in half to have pu,.
I’m curious, what condition damage is being lost by taking 4/4/6? See, a PU condition build is fundamentally different than condition shatter. A PU build functions on clone deaths, which are a far stronger and more reliable condition application than shatters, and that’s the difference.
Or do people think the 50% duration buff to MtD (4 sec to 6 sec) doesn’t change anything really? I remember before the conclusion of some testing in another thread was that maim just wasn’t viable.
This is accurate. It was the wrong change. The problem with MtD is that it’s not a bursty skill (trait), but it’s locked into an inherently bursty playstyle: shatters. Since that mismatch exists, it causes the whole build to just not work together properly. You’re playing bursty, trying to coordinate and land bursts…but then your “burst” can be completely annulled by a quick condition removal, or even someone standing still.
The change it needed was to drastically boost the stacks it applied, while reducing the duration a little bit to compensate. This allows you to actually burst with it, in the way that shatters have to be, instead of using a burst mechanic to apply sustained damage.
Back in the day this was how a confusion shatter build worked, and it was very effective. The confusion nerf saw the end to that, and this addition of a torment option won’t change that.
Condi shatter works fine. I tend to go 0/6/2/0/6, Staff scepter/pistol.
Sizzap – Asura Mesmer, Dragonbrand
i will try to upload some hot join pvp gameplay versus several classes so you can judge for yourself about the shatter dmg
so far i like it
build use 0,6,2,0,6 which use both clones death and illusion shatter
so when i shatter i can do around 1k torment, 1k confusion, 0.5-1k bleeding and random condition like burning poison etc